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  1. #121
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nelg1993 View Post
    Already made a thread about this before I saw this, but going to ask you anyways :P

    What about changing the rep scheme for bench/incline bench (I don't OHP bc I'm recovering from shoulder impingement)/squats to 3x3+/2x6-8 (with 10-15% less weight on the bar than the sets of 3) in the same workout?

    Would this be a good idea or should I change the amount of sets, don't do an AMRAP set, ... ?

    Reason I'm asking: I just feel more comfortable in these rep ranges rather than doing a 3x5 (which I am currently doing), I like the raw strength of sets of 3 and the higher reps with moderate but still heavy weight. Just switching things up a little.

    Edit: what about deadlifts? Should I see this as a power movement (stick to 3 reps with an amrap set) or also as an exercise to build mass (do some higher reps too)?
    This isn't exactly a straight powerlifting routine hence why the reps tend to be a little bit higher than the norm. It is good to train in different rep ranges also - if you get too comfortable in just one range you can miss out on better/faster Improvement sometimes.

    If you wanted to stick to triples for the bench, I would use a 4x3, 1x3+ approach. This was one of the pre-meet approaches of Doug Young and would still be within the confines of this program.

    I still think for most people though sticking with the 5+-4-3-2-1 approach for squats and deadlifts is the most ideal. Once you start training triples for multiple sets it can be pretty draining if you're doing it more than once a week without accounting for it.
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  2. #122
    Registered User Malversation's Avatar
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    Nice work - getting this as a sticky.
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  3. #123
    Registered User WrathfulOne's Avatar
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    each set you will add 10 pounds (though some trainees can add 15-20 pounds depending on their squatting proficiency) and drop one repetition. So if you squatted 300x5, your next four sets would be 310x4, 320x3, 330x2, 340x1
    I just wanted to clarify this 5+,4,3,2,1 progression since I just saw in someone's workout log he did 8 reps of squats on his first (AMRAP) set, but he still did 4,3,2,1 on the next sets. My understanding from the quoted sentence is whatever your AMRAP set was, you subtract 1 from that ("drop one repetition") for the next set. So if you do 8 squats, the next sets should be 7,6,5,4. Is this completely wrong? Are the sets after the first one always 4,3,2,1? In the example the AMRAP set just happened to be 5, so I can't tell :P
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  4. #124
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    I just wanted to clarify this 5+,4,3,2,1 progression since I just saw in someone's workout log he did 8 reps of squats on his first (AMRAP) set, but he still did 4,3,2,1 on the next sets. My understanding from the quoted sentence is whatever your AMRAP set was, you subtract 1 from that ("drop one repetition") for the next set. So if you do 8 squats, the next sets should be 7,6,5,4. Is this completely wrong? Are the sets after the first one always 4,3,2,1? In the example the AMRAP set just happened to be 5, so I can't tell :P
    So if you start off light and get in 10-12 reps, you think like a masochist and do 10 sets with 3min rests? If you add the min 10lbs per set, and start of at 95lbs, the poor trainee is trying for a 195 single by the end, after doing 45min of just squats.
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  5. #125
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    So if you start off light and get in 10-12 reps, you think like a masochist and do 10 sets with 3min rests? If you add the min 10lbs per set, and start of at 95lbs, the poor trainee is trying for a 195 single by the end, after doing 45min of just squats.
    No if you did 10 reps you'd just do 9,8,7,6 innit? It's 5 working sets with each set 1 rep less than the previous one.
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  6. #126
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    If you got 10 then you were lifting too light you should only have a rep or two in reserve above 5. A set of 9 after your 10 would equate to a further 2.5kg above your current max on that day.
    4.3.2.1 reduces your % effort down as he weight gets heavier.
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  7. #127
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    Originally Posted by daawhitty View Post
    If you got 10 then you were lifting too light you should only have a rep or two in reserve above 5. A set of 9 after your 10 would equate to a further 2.5kg above your current max on that day.
    4.3.2.1 reduces your % effort down as he weight gets heavier.
    I was referring to an 8,7,6,5,4 scenario since I saw in a workout log someone did 8,4,3,2,1 and I was a bit confused. I thought part of the auto-regulation was that if you were able to do 8 reps at a given weight, then adding 5kg/10lbs and doing 4 reps would be way too easy, so you would do 7 reps next.
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  8. #128
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    I was referring to an 8,7,6,5,4 scenario since I saw in a workout log someone did 8,4,3,2,1 and I was a bit confused. I thought part of the auto-regulation was that if you were able to do 8 reps at a given weight, then adding 5kg/10lbs and doing 4 reps would be way too easy, so you would do 7 reps next.
    A we found the problem. 10lbs is the min when you drop from AMRAP to 4 rep, you can go 40-50lbs if you want.
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  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A we found the problem. 10lbs is the min when you drop from AMRAP to 4 rep, you can go 40-50lbs if you want.
    Ah OK cool, so it's definitely always 4,3,2,1 after the AMRAP set. Got it, cheers!
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  10. #130
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    1st week was good. I had no issues with any of the exercise selection. Will update you'all once I've got a few more weeks in the bag.
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  11. #131
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    Lol
    there are seven people sitting on my knees
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  12. #132
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    So this went sticky, might give it a try. I like that its just compound exercises and the challenging set for each exercise.

    Do u think it would be better to add some rear delt work?

    Just out of curiosity, I find the exercise order a bit strange. Shouldn't squat and deadlifts, the most tiring exercises, go first?
    Last edited by rpedrosb; 07-17-2016 at 03:05 PM.
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  13. #133
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    So this went sticky, might give it a try. I like that its just compound exercises and the challenging set for each exercise.

    Do u think it would be better to add some rear delt work?

    Just out of curiosity, I find the exercise order a bit strange. Shouldn't squat and deadlifts, the most tiring exercises, go first?
    With both rows and the lat pulldowns, I think you'll find they're pretty well covered as they're working in all three.

    Since they are the most tiring, that's why I personally try to structure them as close to the end as I can. On Workout A, once you finish squats you just need to crank out a few set of chin-ups and you're done. For Workout B, it's second because doing heavy lat pulldowns and/or one-arm rows before deadlifts would take away from them.

    If you go for it, let me know, I'll be glad to follow along and help in any way I can.
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  14. #134
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    With both rows and the lat pulldowns, I think you'll find they're pretty well covered as they're working in all three.

    Since they are the most tiring, that's why I personally try to structure them as close to the end as I can. On Workout A, once you finish squats you just need to crank out a few set of chin-ups and you're done. For Workout B, it's second because doing heavy lat pulldowns and/or one-arm rows before deadlifts would take away from them.

    If you go for it, let me know, I'll be glad to follow along and help in any way I can.
    Right now I'm recovering from a knee injury, so I cannot start yet. Anyway, I will start as soon as I am fully recovered.
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  15. #135
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Right now I'm recovering from a knee injury, so I cannot start yet. Anyway, I will start as soon as I am fully recovered.
    Sounds good. Take it easy and heal up. Battling my own issue right now, so I can relate in some way.
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  16. #136
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    Does anybody have some LEET excel skills to throw a spreadsheet together for this routine? Thanks for putting it out there.
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  17. #137
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    The idea is to pick a weight you can do 4 sets of 6 reps with. If you are a beginner, it is best to start off light and feel out the exercises until you find a comfortable working weight. I'd say roughly 50% of your body weight for the bench/ row/lat pulldown as a good starting point, and about 30% of your body weight for the press. These are rough estimates based on my individual experience and of working with others - individuals may vary.
    Roughly what % of body weight would you recommend to start with for squats and Deadlifts? for a beginner?
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  18. #138
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OcTwenty View Post
    Roughly what % of body weight would you recommend to start with for squats and Deadlifts? for a beginner?
    In the main thread I suggest starting with 50% of your bodyweight for both exercises. This will be light for most folks, and that's a good thing. It lets you get plenty of form practice initially and lets you add weight each time for the first few weeks.
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  19. #139
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    Going to run this but only have barbell. Going to do pullups instead of pulldowns and bb rows instead or single arm rows as I don't have db's. Or would t bar row be better substitute?
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  20. #140
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    In the main thread I suggest starting with 50% of your bodyweight for both exercises. This will be light for most folks, and that's a good thing. It lets you get plenty of form practice initially and lets you add weight each time for the first few weeks.
    Actually good find by OcTwenty, I can see an error in the main posts.

    If you are a complete beginner -

    For squats and deadlift I recommend starting off with about 50% of your body weight. Everything else start with about 25-30%.
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  21. #141
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Drufeus View Post
    Going to run this but only have barbell. Going to do pullups instead of pulldowns and bb rows instead or single arm rows as I don't have db's. Or would t bar row be better substitute?
    Earlier in the thread I posted a video where by putting a barbell in a corner and loading up the other end you can actually use that end for one arm rows.

    Pull-ups are a good replacement for lat pull-downs you just need to be focused on volume for them. Set a repetitions goal (e.g. 10 reps) and aim to do it in as few sets as possible. Once you can get your target reps in two sets, add 5 more to your rep goal the next time.
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  22. #142
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    loving this minimalist program.

    If i'm on a cut should I be doing anything different, specifically to the workout?
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  23. #143
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    Earlier in the thread I posted a video where by putting a barbell in a corner and loading up the other end you can actually use that end for one arm rows.

    Pull-ups are a good replacement for lat pull-downs you just need to be focused on volume for them. Set a repetitions goal (e.g. 10 reps) and aim to do it in as few sets as possible. Once you can get your target reps in two sets, add 5 more to your rep goal the next time.
    Yeah, just saw that video. And good idea about Pulls. Have never done them that way. Will try that out
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    Originally Posted by Billynghialam View Post
    loving this minimalist program.

    If i'm on a cut should I be doing anything different, specifically to the workout?
    The only thing I would say is you will probably not progress as much as someone on a bulk strength wise but that's obvious. Otherwise it's fine to run as written.
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    The only thing I would say is you will probably not progress as much as someone on a bulk strength wise but that's obvious. Otherwise it's fine to run as written.
    How about adding abs/calves/cardio to the routine?
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    This is seriously interesting and I'm quite tempted to switch over to it. Only thing is due to me being fat, I really can't do very many chin-ups. Would doing amrap chin-ups and then negatives suffice?
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    Originally Posted by Billynghialam View Post
    How about adding abs/calves/cardio to the routine?
    You can throw in some cardio and ab work on your off days. Just make sure to make the cardio match your goals.

    After 2-3 months running the basic set up, there's an option for accessory work.
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    Originally Posted by lolruxlol View Post
    This is seriously interesting and I'm quite tempted to switch over to it. Only thing is due to me being fat, I really can't do very many chin-ups. Would doing amrap chin-ups and then negatives suffice?
    That would be a good substitute.
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    Awesome write up, thanks for devoting so much time into it and also in answering everyone's questions. I'm gonna give this a go, but I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly. So for squat/DL you crank out AMRAP with a given weight and then increase by 5 for every extra you do and then you go for 4 reps, then 3, then so on. So after the 4x1 set do you add the same amount you added after the AMRAP or just add 5-10 lbs. Also, what weight would you say I should start with just so the workout flows well throughout the weeks (I have decent experience and I know what weight I'm capable of lifting for the most part)?

    Lastly, how do we progress in weight with the other lifts such as bench press? Say I hit 8 reps in the final set, do I again increase by 5 x # of extra reps for the next time I perform that workout?

    Thanks!
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    Would you think that the volume is maybe too low?

    I'm reading the "The Muscle and Strength Pyramid" from Eric Helms and he recommends 40-70 reps/muscle group/session for a total of 80-210 reps/muscle group/week, considering overlap of exercises and intense warm up sets.

    If we consider that squat and DL both overlap quads and hamstrings, we get a 45-50 reps/week, back exercises give aproximately 120-140 reps/week, but chest/shoulder press only result in 72 reps/week.

    I really want to try this out once I recover from my knee injury (I hope before end of August). Anyway, any thoughts about this?
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