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  1. #61
    This Space for Rent RockCrab's Avatar
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    Agreed, I like that better. Good write-up. Thanks.
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  2. #62
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    bump
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  3. #63
    Registered User GrumpleAl's Avatar
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    I don't have enough posts to link but there's a thread trying to gather all the beginner routines and someone needs to recommend this routine.

    hit p://forum.body building. com/showthread.php?t=167958293
    Last edited by GrumpleAl; 02-15-2016 at 07:19 PM. Reason: trying to post the link
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  4. #64
    Registered User GrumpleAl's Avatar
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    A couple of questions that are more generic deadlift form questions but since it'll bump this thread I'm happy.

    First, when doing multiple reps of a deadlift, I tend to stop and set myself before every rep. Some people I've seen rapping one immediately after another without taking any time to re-set. Any benefit to quickly repping out the set or does it really matter?

    Second, I wait to take my deep breath and brace my core from the bottom position right before I deadlift but I've seen many others do it from standing position before going down to the bar. Any difference? Just personal preference?

    Again, I love the program and with the 5-4-3-2-1 reps it's great because you realize how much more you're capable of so the progression doesn't seem so insurmountable. I know it's a meager amount but I hit a 305 for my recent deadlift and considering I'd never done any compound weightlifting work before this past October I'd say the program works. I feel a lot less beat up than I did with Stronglifts too. Thanks for the great program!
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  5. #65
    This Space for Rent RockCrab's Avatar
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    My opinion, and I'm sure others will chime in, you are fine to pause and reset between deadlifting reps. Probably safer to do so and certainly won't hurt. Just don't take a rest period to reset. My feet don't move between reps, but I may regrip and double check my core tightness (mentally) ... 10-15s tops.
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  6. #66
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    I personally like to pause between my reps. Any time I have ever gotten a sore lower back from deadlifts is when I have done "touch and go" reps. As Rock said it's probably safer in the long run.

    Everyone has their own rationale but it boils down to personal preference. I brace from the bottom also. You tend to see the other way from the guys who like to "grip it and rip it", who start pulling as soon as their hands get on the bar. That style never worked well for me personally but it does for some folks.

    Here's an example. A program of heavy singles would probably work better if you get into this style but you can try it out on the final single if you'd like. For some guys it works well as you can see, but I never felt a perfect pull that way.

    https://youtu.be/B8pmO-8hcIg

    Also - awesome job on the 305 deadlift! Three plates right around the corner!
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  7. #67
    Juan Sick Kent IronKrazy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GrumpleAl View Post
    A couple of questions that are more generic deadlift form questions but since it'll bump this thread I'm happy.

    First, when doing multiple reps of a deadlift, I tend to stop and set myself before every rep. Some people I've seen rapping one immediately after another without taking any time to re-set. Any benefit to quickly repping out the set or does it really matter?

    Second, I wait to take my deep breath and brace my core from the bottom position right before I deadlift but I've seen many others do it from standing position before going down to the bar. Any difference? Just personal preference?

    Again, I love the program and with the 5-4-3-2-1 reps it's great because you realize how much more you're capable of so the progression doesn't seem so insurmountable. I know it's a meager amount but I hit a 305 for my recent deadlift and considering I'd never done any compound weightlifting work before this past October I'd say the program works. I feel a lot less beat up than I did with Stronglifts too. Thanks for the great program!
    As Grouchy said it's personal preference or what we've gotten used to doing and has worked for us.

    1. I always reset when deadlifting heavy. I see no benefit at all to doing speed work with heavy weight on the deadlift. The only time I will sort of rep it out is with 135lbs or as I warm up and work toward my working weight. Resetting every rep with working weight gives me a moment to listen to my body and to know whether or not it's a good idea to go for that next rep or if my form could potentially break down severely. Deadlifting is dangerous in of it's self and a huge risk, doing something unnecessary along with it is just asking for trouble.

    2. I like to have as fresh of a breath as possible when going to deadlift so I do it when I'm in position, not when standing. I feel it allows me to get set up and tighter before I take in air.

    As for this program. It really is a fun program, if you have the time to do it and especially recover from it properly. I think the one arm rows were helping me a lot with my bench. Though yes, the 54321 is the fun part as you work your way to a heavy single. As I mentioned to a previous member here, you can do 5lb or 10lb jumps and either have a 20lb single or 40lb single at the end. As you progress with the program you may find only having a 20lb single at the end of your session to be very welcoming lol. Though I had to find something else that allowed me to get my lifts in during the week but also spread out the work load so I'm not destroying myself in one night. With my job I can't afford to come in wrecked as my alertness is needed for my safety and the safety of others.

    Good luck and have fun with it! I hope I can return to it some day! Or maybe even take the idea of doing 54321 and make that my squat day instead of doing 5/3/1 style. I dunno.
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  8. #68
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    One of my guys just finished 16 weeks on this routine. He was a new lifter, this was his first routine.

    He started at 5'11" and 183, now weighs 205. His first bench session was 55x8, he recently hit 185x5. Press was 45x10, he hit 135x4. Squat started at 95x10, hit 255x7. And deadlift was 115x5, he hit 350x4.

    He did the best so far as he has a sedentary job and is single, so his whole life was work, eat, sleep, and train. He alternated for 9 weeks, did A-B-A the rest of the time.
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  9. #69
    Juan Sick Kent IronKrazy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    One of my guys just finished 16 weeks on this routine. He was a new lifter, this was his first routine.

    He started at 5'11" and 183, now weighs 205. His first bench session was 55x8, he recently hit 185x5. Press was 45x10, he hit 135x4. Squat started at 95x10, hit 255x7. And deadlift was 115x5, he hit 350x4.

    He did the best so far as he has a sedentary job and is single, so his whole life was work, eat, sleep, and train. He alternated for 9 weeks, did A-B-A the rest of the time.
    Awesome to hear man! Congrats to him! I cried @ the bolded above. lol. Oh well, such is life for different folks.
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  10. #70
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronKrazy View Post
    Awesome to hear man! Congrats to him! I cried @ the bolded above. lol. Oh well, such is life for different folks.
    I hear you brother.
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  11. #71
    Registered User GrumpleAl's Avatar
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    Grouchy - a question about the OHP. I have shoulder bursitis/tendonitis and it has been getting progressively worse since starting Stronglifts and now your program. I've been doing my shoulder rehab exercises and it hasn't helped. Last week I was out of town so I took the week off from everything to see if it would help but after my presses today it's really hurting.

    I hate modifying programs but do you see an issue with dropping the overhead presses? I'll continue with the rehab exercises but I'm worried if I see a physical therapist they'll tell me to lay off the weights and I'd hate that. If it matters I have a low ceiling so I'm forced to do the presses seated. I don't think that's screwing up my mechanics but I thought I'd offer the information.

    Any problems with dropping the OHP?
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  12. #72
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Considering your situation, I would. Just don't do any pressing that day. Is it just heavy weight or is it light weight too?

    If light weight is okay, try this. It's basically a shoulder rehab/prehab routine that should balance out any issues from not OHPing.

    Stew Smith lightweight shoulder routine -
    https://youtu.be/0jS0_k5qmsY
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  13. #73
    Registered User GrumpleAl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    Considering your situation, I would. Just don't do any pressing that day. Is it just heavy weight or is it light weight too?

    If light weight is okay, try this. It's basically a shoulder rehab/prehab routine that should balance out any issues from not OHPing.
    I do okay with the lighter weights so I'll give that routine a whirl. Considering it's light, unless you think otherwise I'll run it every other day after my workout as a nice cool down. I'm also working on sleeping on my back because sleeping on my side really aggravates my shoulder. My pressing weight numbers (both bench and overhead) are pretty weak sauce but I've got the rest of my life to work on it, as long as I'm doing it with proper form and pain-free.
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  14. #74
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    That sounds like a good idea. I hope it helps.
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  15. #75
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    hello grouchy. i was wondering doing this routine, but i think alternating deadlift is too harsh for me(had some back injury earlier). so i was thinking of what you said alternating. basicly when i do then is do squats on monday/friday and deadlift on wednesday. then i just alternate the rest of A/B exercises each workout? am i correct? if not please show me a template as english is not my native language. cheerz for an amazing looking routine. also in what order would i then do the exercises? really apprechiate the help!
    Last edited by jonathansenning; 04-05-2016 at 07:15 AM.
    100kg deadlift 1x5
    70kg squat 3x5
    60kg bench 3x5
    67kg bb row 3x5
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  16. #76
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    Amazing thread! I've been lifting off and on for a long time. Gone from starting strength to gslp to an upper/lower split to bro split. Been very inconsistent for over a year. Best lifts were a 370 squat, 240 bench and 385 deadlift (strain on locking out 405). I'm not even close to the squat and deadlift anymore (I'd guess down to a 300-315 squat and 350 pull). Love the layout of this program and will use it to get back on track. I'll start a log and PM you the link grouchy.

    I just built a platform in my house and will be setting up a power rack so instead of Pulldowns I'll do pull-ups and one arm barbell rows instead of dumbbell rows. Other than that I'll add in curls and Skullcrushers after 12 weeks.
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  17. #77
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    The template image seems to be broken, here's the picture once again.



    Originally Posted by jonathansenning View Post
    hello grouchy. i was wondering doing this routine, but i think alternating deadlift is too harsh for me(had some back injury earlier). so i was thinking of what you said alternating. basicly when i do then is do squats on monday/friday and deadlift on wednesday. then i just alternate the rest of A/B exercises each workout? am i correct? if not please show me a template as english is not my native language. cheerz for an amazing looking routine. also in what order would i then do the exercises? really apprechiate the help!
    I apologize for missing this until today, I've been busy preparing for and participating in an event.

    Yes, just alternate the accessory work, but within reason. So you can bench/row/squat/chin-ups twice one week, then the next week press/pulldown/squat/one-arm row twice the next.

    Rows on the same day as deadlifts can be pretty tough, so if it feels like too much do pulldowns and switch out barbell rows for pulldowns on another day.

    Originally Posted by wardog21 View Post
    Amazing thread! I've been lifting off and on for a long time. Gone from starting strength to gslp to an upper/lower split to bro split. Been very inconsistent for over a year. Best lifts were a 370 squat, 240 bench and 385 deadlift (strain on locking out 405). I'm not even close to the squat and deadlift anymore (I'd guess down to a 300-315 squat and 350 pull). Love the layout of this program and will use it to get back on track. I'll start a log and PM you the link grouchy.

    I just built a platform in my house and will be setting up a power rack so instead of Pulldowns I'll do pull-ups and one arm barbell rows instead of dumbbell rows. Other than that I'll add in curls and Skullcrushers after 12 weeks.
    Outstanding, please do. Any and all questions, I'm more than happy to help.
    Last edited by grouchyjarhead; 04-17-2016 at 07:01 PM.
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  18. #78
    Registered User wardog21's Avatar
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    Thanks man. It'll be a few days before I get my rack up. It didn't come with the required bolts and washers.

    Quick question. I need to lose some bodyfat (I'm 181 at 5'6-7 with 23-25% bodyfat). Looking pretty sloppy. I will get my diet straight but would it be alright to add a couple days of conditioning? Perhaps a timed mile run after the middle lifting day and some 100m sprints the day after the 3rd lifting day?

    Frequency method bodyweight stuff may be too much (the way gslp has it as an add-on. Would frequency pushups, chins and burpees be a bit too much?
    Last edited by wardog21; 04-17-2016 at 08:12 PM.
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  19. #79
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    Honestly if you just figure out your macronutrients and eat at maintenance, you'll probably trim up fairly quickly without having to do cardio. If you do, I'd keep it light and easy - you should be able to talk while doing it without much trouble.
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    I really like this program but I just have a few questions
    first most programs have squat at the beginning, how come it's in the middle of this program
    second I fell as there are not enough leg exercises as most FB have squat 3X a week and I feel that the deadlift mainly works my back rather legs so its kinda like legs 1.5 to 2.5 times a week
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    Originally Posted by MehranNB View Post
    I really like this program but I just have a few questions
    first most programs have squat at the beginning, how come it's in the middle of this program
    second I fell as there are not enough leg exercises as most FB have squat 3X a week and I feel that the deadlift mainly works my back rather legs so its kinda like legs 1.5 to 2.5 times a week
    Squats are pretty draining once you start using heavier weights so like a lot of beginner programs I made it one of the last lifts to perform for the day.

    If you want more leg frequency, when you're about 12 weeks in just add some accessory work. RDLs on squat days and leg presses on deadlift days would be a good idea.
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    I spent like 9 months in the gym and tbh i am not happy with my results,i did gained 30 lbs (or even more) but my lifts are really weak ... So i want to focus on size and strenght ...

    This should be ideal for me?
    Last edited by Milos108; 04-18-2016 at 06:50 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Milos108 View Post
    I spent like 9 months in the gym and tbh i am not happy with my results,i did gained 30 lbs (or even more) but my lifts are really weak ... So i want to focus on size and strenght ...

    This should be ideal for me?
    I think this would be a good blend for developing strength and mass but any properly designed program can do that too. If you want to give it a shot, I'm more than happy to help you in any way I can.
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    I think this would be a good blend for developing strength and mass but any properly designed program can do that too. If you want to give it a shot, I'm more than happy to help you in any way I can.
    Yeah i do
    Anywho,i wanted to ask you something not about your program but powerbuilding in particular.For how long should i stick with powerbuilding?Since my 1st small goal is to get to 200 lbs (minimum) and well improve my lifts a lot (for example,bench 220 to 260 lbs etc),how long do you think i should stick with it?

    I also wanted to start my first cut next spring(if i get to 200 lbs) but i am afraid i will lose my strengh on my main lifts and i really dont want that


    Also,for how long should i follow this program?12 to 16 weeks,more?And one more thing,you said i need to work 3 days a week,i am not sure i follow xd,if i work 3 days a week,one week i ll do two times workout a and the other week workout b ... am i supposed to or ?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Milos108; 04-18-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Milos108 View Post
    Yeah i do
    Anywho,i wanted to ask you something not about your program but powerbuilding in particular.For how long should i stick with powerbuilding?Since my 1st small goal is to get to 200 lbs (minimum) and well improve my lifts a lot (for example,bench 220 to 260 lbs etc),how long do you think i should stick with it?

    I also wanted to start my first cut next spring(if i get to 200 lbs) but i am afraid i will lose my strengh on my main lifts and i really dont want that


    Also,for how long should i follow this program?12 to 16 weeks,more?And one more thing,you said i need to work 3 days a week,i am not sure i follow xd,if i work 3 days a week,one week i ll do two times workout a and the other week workout b ... am i supposed to or ?

    Thanks
    For any kind of routine, you want to stick with it as long as you are still getting results from it. Too many people are eager to switch routines faster than they channel surf and for that reason never get the results out of it that they want. I've got two guys who have been on this routine for several months now and are still progressing.

    If you start reducing calories and losing weight, inevitably you'll lose some strength with it.

    You've got the right idea. Since it's Workout A and B, simply do A-B-A one week and B-A-B the next. For some guys, once you start deadlifting heavy you can only manage it once a week so then you'll run A-B-A continuously but switch around your accessory work (i.e. so one week on your squat days you'll be performing bench/row/chins, the next week on your squat days you'll be performing press/pulldowns/one arm rows).
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  26. #86
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    For any kind of routine, you want to stick with it as long as you are still getting results from it. Too many people are eager to switch routines faster than they channel surf and for that reason never get the results out of it that they want. I've got two guys who have been on this routine for several months now and are still progressing.

    If you start reducing calories and losing weight, inevitably you'll lose some strength with it.

    You've got the right idea. Since it's Workout A and B, simply do A-B-A one week and B-A-B the next. For some guys, once you start deadlifting heavy you can only manage it once a week so then you'll run A-B-A continuously but switch around your accessory work (i.e. so one week on your squat days you'll be performing bench/row/chins, the next week on your squat days you'll be performing press/pulldowns/one arm rows).
    Dont worry,i will stick with this program,i am just not sure "when" will i get into the phase of doing accesory excercises and well shaping muscles ... Dont get me wrong being lean and having abs isnt my wish(well it is but not atm)atm i want to look like a beast and lift like a beast xd,i am just not sure when will i get to that phase ... Is there a border for it?For example when i bench x weight for x reps i am officially not a begginer and i can start shaping my body ...

    Two more things,can i replace Pendlay Rows with Barbell Rows and can i add DB shrugs at the end of each workout? (twice a week lets say)
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    The amount of weight you're lifting has less to do with being an intermediate lifter and more with how often you can actually progress. If you can make frequent gains in strength, you're still in beginner territory. Once it becomes more difficult to do so, you might only be adding strength every week or few weeks and then you're an intermediate. Once you're advanced, it might be months before your lifts go up.

    Pendlay rows are a bit more forgiving on the lower back which is getting hit hard with the squats and deadlifts, that's primarily why I recommended them. They were also how serious lifters in the 70s used to do their rows as well. You can try rows from the hang instead and if it works for you, great, but I'd give the Pendlays an honest shot first.

    As for shrugs, give it 8-12 weeks before adding in any accessory work. Trust me, your traps will get some love from the squats, deads, rows, and chin-ups.
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    The amount of weight you're lifting has less to do with being an intermediate lifter and more with how often you can actually progress. If you can make frequent gains in strength, you're still in beginner territory. Once it becomes more difficult to do so, you might only be adding strength every week or few weeks and then you're an intermediate. Once you're advanced, it might be months before your lifts go up.

    Pendlay rows are a bit more forgiving on the lower back which is getting hit hard with the squats and deadlifts, that's primarily why I recommended them. They were also how serious lifters in the 70s used to do their rows as well. You can try rows from the hang instead and if it works for you, great, but I'd give the Pendlays an honest shot first.

    As for shrugs, give it 8-12 weeks before adding in any accessory work. Trust me, your traps will get some love from the squats, deads, rows, and chin-ups.
    Well my lifts arent improving on some compound excercises for quite some time now.Bench is my biggest problem(as my chest too),in first 4 months i ve jumped from 66 lbs to 160 lbs but well i am still around that area.My max is about 177-180 lbs but still,5 months have passed and nothing changed.About squat,i am not sure i ve quite understood the form,should my hams touch my calves all the way down?If yes,its gonna be hard for me to progress tbh,my max is about 280-290 lbs but parallel :/

    As for Pendlays,i ll give it a go
    Its not that i worry about my traps,they are the only good muscles on my body(by genetically i mean)so i ll listen to you too ...

    About accessory work,after that period (8-12 weeks),which muscles should i hit?Bicep and Tricep or Traps/Shoulders ?
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    Squat to what is comfortable. You don't need to do full squats if you don't want to - parallel is fine.

    Honestly, you can address any area you feel might be lacking. Just add on 1-2 accessory exercises at the end of each workout - usually one is plenty if you're alternating with another one.

    For arms, I like dips and barbell curls. Legs, leg press and RDLs would be good. And so on.
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    One of my guys just finished 16 weeks on this routine. He was a new lifter, this was his first routine.

    He started at 5'11" and 183, now weighs 205. His first bench session was 55x8, he recently hit 185x5. Press was 45x10, he hit 135x4. Squat started at 95x10, hit 255x7. And deadlift was 115x5, he hit 350x4.

    He did the best so far as he has a sedentary job and is single, so his whole life was work, eat, sleep, and train. He alternated for 9 weeks, did A-B-A the rest of the time.
    Now that is some progress. He's definitely going places.

    The vid of Doug Young was an inspiration.

    Looks like a great program. Simple, brutal, effective. Definitely repworthy.

    Lift well and prosper.
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    FIERCE 5:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

    Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)

    Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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