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  1. #331
    Banned JohnTorgerson's Avatar
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    This powerlifting routine is designed for the beginner interested in strength training and competing in powerlifting. If you are new to the gym or have been lifting weights for a few months, this routine is going to show you how to get started on your journey to becoming a true powerlifter; including information about competing.
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  2. #332
    Novice to Monster TTSBaseball's Avatar
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    Would it be fine to switch my squats to 1x6+ and 3x6? Also, deadlifts 1x6+ and 2x6? Now that I am in season, it seems like working up to a 1RM would not be wise. Thanks for the help.
    Everyone has the desire to win, but only Champions have the desire to prepare.
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  3. #333
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TTSBaseball View Post
    Would it be fine to switch my squats to 1x6+ and 3x6? Also, deadlifts 1x6+ and 2x6? Now that I am in season, it seems like working up to a 1RM would not be wise. Thanks for the help.
    It's not a true 1RM, just a heavy single really. For squats I imagine it would be fine (although probably more difficult than the other method you may find) - deadlifts I would hesitate to do it personally.

    If you're in season, just drop it down to twice a week (A one day, B another day) would be my personal recommendation.
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  4. #334
    Registered User adambannon's Avatar
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    Update on my progress on the program. I completed 4 weeks consecutively but decided to take a week off from training this past week due to mid terms and feeling fatigued in general. My numbers from my last A and B workouts are as follows:

    Workout A:

    Bench - 130 x 9 (+ set)
    Squat - 120 x 7 (+ set)
    Pendlay Row - 130 x 6 (+ set)
    Chinups - Bw x 5, 5, 3 (AMRAP)

    Workout B:

    Press - 90 x 5 (+ set)
    Deadlift - 155 x 6 (+ set)
    Lat Pulldown - 120 x 8 (+ set)
    One arm rows - 35 x 18 (AMRAP)

    My questions are: do you still increase the weight by 5 lbs if you get 6 reps or do you have to get 7? Also does exercise order matter? I find its easier for me to stay in the power rack at my gym and do squats after bench, rather than doing Pendlays after. Does this make much difference?
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  5. #335
    Registered User dcaponed's Avatar
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    I'm 5'7 and around 165 lbs
    Deadlift: 365 x 5
    Squat: 305 x 2
    Bench: 205 x 1?

    Have ran Fierce 5 on and off for a couple years now using the Upper/lower first, then moving to Advanced LPP version. This routine looks great, especially for getting the big 3 up. Not sure if going back to a beginner program is appropriate in my situation though (unable to progress linearly anymore; at least week to week). With that said I still feel I am relatively beginner level in bench, perhaps less so in deadlift. I would appreciate feedback on whether it's possible to sustain the workload of your full body program given my specific lifts.

    If not eligible for the beginner, I am more than willing to participate in an intermediate version if you are still working on the program.

    Thanks
    Last edited by dcaponed; 03-05-2017 at 07:33 PM.
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  6. #336
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Sorry gents, for some reason these didn't pop up in my subscription.

    Originally Posted by adambannon View Post
    Update on my progress on the program. I completed 4 weeks consecutively but decided to take a week off from training this past week due to mid terms and feeling fatigued in general. My numbers from my last A and B workouts are as follows:

    Workout A:

    Bench - 130 x 9 (+ set)
    Squat - 120 x 7 (+ set)
    Pendlay Row - 130 x 6 (+ set)
    Chinups - Bw x 5, 5, 3 (AMRAP)

    Workout B:

    Press - 90 x 5 (+ set)
    Deadlift - 155 x 6 (+ set)
    Lat Pulldown - 120 x 8 (+ set)
    One arm rows - 35 x 18 (AMRAP)

    My questions are: do you still increase the weight by 5 lbs if you get 6 reps or do you have to get 7? Also does exercise order matter? I find its easier for me to stay in the power rack at my gym and do squats after bench, rather than doing Pendlays after. Does this make much difference?
    If you get two or more reps above your goal (e.g. your 190x9 bench), you can add 10 pounds if you'd like. For lower body lifts, two or more reps above your goal and you can add 20 pounds. I'd cap it at 10/20 though just for the sake of being cautious and not overreaching too quickly.

    As for exercise order, optimally try to stick to the set up suggested but for the sake of convenience if you find your way easier, no one's going to put a gun to your head. Do what works best for you.

    Originally Posted by dcaponed View Post
    I'm 5'7 and around 165 lbs
    Deadlift: 365 x 5
    Squat: 305 x 2
    Bench: 205 x 1?

    Have ran Fierce 5 on and off for a couple years now using the Upper/lower first, then moving to Advanced LPP version. This routine looks great, especially for getting the big 3 up. Not sure if going back to a beginner program is appropriate in my situation though (unable to progress linearly anymore; at least week to week). With that said I still feel I am relatively beginner level in bench, perhaps less so in deadlift. I would appreciate feedback on whether it's possible to sustain the workload of your full body program given my specific lifts.

    If not eligible for the beginner, I am more than willing to participate in an intermediate version if you are still working on the program.

    Thanks
    You're not too far off, so you could potentially milk some more gains out of this. If anything the change in rep ranges and difference in some exercises could benefit you. You would also be a candidate for a bit of emphasis on some lagging areas (e.g. adding an additional exercise per workout to hit your hamstrings, for example).
    Last edited by grouchyjarhead; 03-13-2017 at 03:49 AM.
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  7. #337
    Registered User GyyzzBrah's Avatar
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    Ab workouts and diet plan

    Hey brah what kind of ab workouts would you recommend for me? How many times should I do it and what food should I eat to get the Zyzz physique naturally without growth hormones and steroids?
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  8. #338
    Cookie Connoisseur danfleysher's Avatar
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    It's interesting that you're suggesting doing a 1 rep max of either DL or Squat with every workout. I've never seen any other program suggest maxing that often (or ever), especially not for beginners.

    Just wanted to hear your thoughts.
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    Goals:
    Squats: 275 5x5
    Bench: 225 4x6
    Pendlay: 205 4x6 (Achieved)
    Deadlift: 315 5x5 (Achieved
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  9. #339
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GyyzzBrah View Post
    Hey brah what kind of ab workouts would you recommend for me? How many times should I do it and what food should I eat to get the Zyzz physique naturally without growth hormones and steroids?
    If you want visible abs, it typically boils down more to diet than isolation exercises.

    Originally Posted by danfleysher View Post
    It's interesting that you're suggesting doing a 1 rep max of either DL or Squat with every workout. I've never seen any other program suggest maxing that often (or ever), especially not for beginners.

    Just wanted to hear your thoughts.
    It's not a one rep max, that's why. It's a heavy single with a submaximal weight so you get a bit more experience handling a heavier load, but it's not your true 1RM in the vast majority of cases.

    Using the deadlift, if you pull 300 for 7 reps, the Brzycki formula gives you a 1RM of 360. Your next work sets (310x4, 320x3, 330x2, 340x1) gets you up to a heavy but not max single at that weight since you tend to proceed by 10 pound jumps. If you start struggling on the first work set, you are going too heavy, which is why when reps for the first set drop so do the working weights. The 5/4/3/2/1 rep system has been around for decades, and for good reason - it works.
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  10. #340
    Registered User ntclick's Avatar
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    Agreed, I like that better. Good write-up. Thanks.
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  11. #341
    Registered User ahmedwaleed92's Avatar
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    hey thanks for providing detailed information, i have just planned to start exercise to lose weight and get in shape, any help regarding the diet plan will be very helpful for me.

    thanks
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  12. #342
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ahmedwaleed92 View Post
    hey thanks for providing detailed information, i have just planned to start exercise to lose weight and get in shape, any help regarding the diet plan will be very helpful for me.

    thanks
    Some great stickies in the nutrition forum. Main thing is to figure out your maintenance calories, calculate your macronutrients (protein/fat/carb) from those calories, and get a good nutrition app and begin tracking your diet.
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  13. #343
    Registered User adambannon's Avatar
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    Hey Grouchy just wanted to hear your thoughts on a problem I have been having. So far I have completed 8 weeks of the program but feel like fatigue is really setting in. I am especially getting very dizzy after sets, particularly deadlifts, squats, and pendlay rows. I actually ended up taking a deload week a month ago before going back to training for 3 weeks , but have now taken a 2nd deload week.

    Overall I have been eating 3700-4000 calories a day, sleeping 6-7 hours a night (more on weekends) and feel I should be making more progress. I have stalled at 90lbs on overhead press and am having difficulty completing all the sets of squats as well (currently at 150 lbs for my + set).

    I believe I am very sensitive to overtraining, and actually was quite ill for much of last year and suffered from massive fatigue, being unable to train for 4 months before starting back with light dumbbells and bands. I was never diagnosed with anything after a million tests, and they just said I had "chronic fatigue syndrome".

    I guess what I am asking is are there any ways to alter this program to minimize neural fatigue, and in my situation should I maybe even consider another program? Obviously the last thing I would want is to get back to the state I was in last year.

    Thanks as always for your guidance.
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  14. #344
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    It could be a number of factors, Adam. How much water do you drink in a day? How long are you resting between sets? Do you do any other activities outside of the gym? Are you getting a wide variety of foods? Can you fit in a nap here and there throughout the day? Do you do any endurance activities?

    If most of those answers tend to be positive, have you tried reducing the frequency to just twice a week? (Say Workout A on Monday and Workout B on Thursday)
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  15. #345
    Aspiring Spokesperson xSeanDee's Avatar
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    going to be trying this split this coming April!
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  16. #346
    Registered User Jan0234's Avatar
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    Its always a repetition and i suggest start in a weight that you can handle and then put some pressure or add up after a week. dot force ourselves.
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  17. #347
    Registered User adambannon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grouchyjarhead View Post
    It could be a number of factors, Adam. How much water do you drink in a day? How long are you resting between sets? Do you do any other activities outside of the gym? Are you getting a wide variety of foods? Can you fit in a nap here and there throughout the day? Do you do any endurance activities?

    If most of those answers tend to be positive, have you tried reducing the frequency to just twice a week? (Say Workout A on Monday and Workout B on Thursday)
    Thanks for the reply grouchy! To answer your questions, I would say I probably drink at least 2L of water a day, but could definitely drink more if I was paying a bit more attention to it. I time my rest between sets and started off at 2 minutes when i first started the program, but now find myself taking up to 4 minutes for some sets. Right now no not doing any other major activities. Was playing basketball once a week at the beginning of the program, but because of school and work I've only been able to find time for the workouts. Not really sure about a "wide variety" of foods. I do track my calories and macros through myfitnesspal though and do think i eat a fair bit of veggies, fruits, complex carbs, and protein, plus sweets to hit my target calories. Naps are pretty out of the question with my schedule, and as mentioned no endurance activities at the moment.

    No I have not tired reducing frequency to twice per week. Do you suggest I do that after my deload week and see if I still feel the same?
    Last edited by adambannon; 03-28-2017 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Forgot second paragraph
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  18. #348
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Twice a week might be a better option for you if you're finding recovery issues slow. Adding in some long walks for cardio might help too - sometimes if you're deconditioned due to no endurance activities you can take longer to recover between sets.
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  19. #349
    Registered doer itrain4life98's Avatar
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    Love it, I've been running this for about a month now, just getting back into weight training after a year or so break due to the Navy. I'm getting my numbers up again and it feels good to be back in the gym, thank you for the write up.
    Age: 18
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    S:275
    DL:375
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  20. #350
    Registered User OcTwenty's Avatar
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    Hey grouchyjarhead, Thanks for this awesome program, my favorite by far. I have a question. You said in the primer that after running the program as written for a few months you can sensibly add in a few Accessories, and im not at the stage where ill do so but id like to check with you first. How can i Sensibly add in Dips Shrugs and Curls? cheers pal.

    Oh yh on a side note. In your experience, With the ABA / BAB style for squats and Deadlifts, do you realistically think this is enough volume to simulate max leg growth? i only ask because im doing this on a cut so cant really tell. Thanks again
    Last edited by OcTwenty; 04-04-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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  21. #351
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    I would typically focus on one area at a time. For instance, if you're after some more arm work you could alternate dips one day and curls the next, just keep them moderate so you're not burning yourself out for the bench/press the next day. Your main effort should be in the prescribed lifts, then a bit of accessory work to bring up lagging areas.

    For a beginner yes but adding in work like above after your main sets will obviously be far more optimal.
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  22. #352
    Registered User SoccerTees's Avatar
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    Was looking to hop on Madcows at the end of my cut in 5 or so weeks but found this program and wondering if it'll fit my goals better.

    Right now I'm 170 at about 12% w/ 1 RM: 215 Squat, 195 bench, 140 rows, 115 OHP, and not sure of deadlifts as I do not train them now.

    I am looking to increase strength and size at a comparable rate but trying to stick to being mostly lean with a good amount of strength. I don't like to go on huge bulks and would much rather lean bulk at ~300 excess calories.


    Thanks for any advice.
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  23. #353
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    Long time lurker of these forums, first time poster. For about 4-5 years I followed kelei's hypertrophy routine going 10RM working up to 50 reps, rest/pause. I personally think I tried to run before I could walk because I was a novice. I've made relatively ok strength gains but they were extremely drawn out and found it difficult to gym it 6 times a week so could rarely follow the 3 weeks on 1 week off program properly. Obviously I realise you weren't a big fan of the OP of that thread! Fancied going back to basics so I thought i would give this a try. I briefly flirted with stronglifts about a year ago but I did miss kelei's routine, however now it seems the volume was simply too much and getting to the point where each work out was torturous and lengthy. I suppose in many ways I'm still a beginner so I'm interested to see what I'll do. For reference I'm currently 3 workouts in on this. My squat is at 90kg for first set, deads at 112.5kg and bench at 90kg. I realise this my be out of proportion but I try to keep the strictest form with deads and squats as they are the ones that are most likely gonna screw you over the worst if done incorrectly! Anyway I'll keep you updated. Already enjoying not feeling like a bag of spanners at the end of a workout!
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    Registered User tips24x7's Avatar
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    Is there any nutrition plans you have and additional powerbuilding plans?
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    Do you have any good sub for lat pulldowns that allows for easy progression?

    The cable machine in my gym has increases of 5kg and I always find it hard to progress because of the big jump between weights.
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Do you have any good sub for lat pulldowns that allows for easy progression?

    The cable machine in my gym has increases of 5kg and I always find it hard to progress because of the big jump between weights.
    Hang a small plate on the stack pin.
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    Unfortunately due to being in the navy, I tend to be a weekend warrior so rarely have time to use the gym on fri/sat. Has anyone had a crack at running this anything similar to A-B-off-A-B-off-off?
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    Update: Strength is coming back fast! My PR deadlift was 375 belted like september 2015. I pulled 315x10 raw the other day on my first DL set and my 1rm is calculated to 420! I haven't actually tested my max and I won't for awhile, I'm just gonna progress through the program. But man, I'm excited that I'm probably in the 400 club after not lifting for so long.
    Age: 18
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  29. #359
    Tactical Barbell crew grouchyjarhead's Avatar
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    Sorry all, I was on vacation and in training for work for a bit so I'm catching up now.

    Originally Posted by SoccerTees View Post
    Was looking to hop on Madcows at the end of my cut in 5 or so weeks but found this program and wondering if it'll fit my goals better.

    Right now I'm 170 at about 12% w/ 1 RM: 215 Squat, 195 bench, 140 rows, 115 OHP, and not sure of deadlifts as I do not train them now.

    I am looking to increase strength and size at a comparable rate but trying to stick to being mostly lean with a good amount of strength. I don't like to go on huge bulks and would much rather lean bulk at ~300 excess calories.

    Thanks for any advice.
    Your numbers could still improve from linear progression, so if it looks fun for you go for it.

    Originally Posted by GazBenj90 View Post
    Long time lurker of these forums, first time poster. For about 4-5 years I followed kelei's hypertrophy routine going 10RM working up to 50 reps, rest/pause. I personally think I tried to run before I could walk because I was a novice. I've made relatively ok strength gains but they were extremely drawn out and found it difficult to gym it 6 times a week so could rarely follow the 3 weeks on 1 week off program properly. Obviously I realise you weren't a big fan of the OP of that thread! Fancied going back to basics so I thought i would give this a try. I briefly flirted with stronglifts about a year ago but I did miss kelei's routine, however now it seems the volume was simply too much and getting to the point where each work out was torturous and lengthy. I suppose in many ways I'm still a beginner so I'm interested to see what I'll do. For reference I'm currently 3 workouts in on this. My squat is at 90kg for first set, deads at 112.5kg and bench at 90kg. I realise this my be out of proportion but I try to keep the strictest form with deads and squats as they are the ones that are most likely gonna screw you over the worst if done incorrectly! Anyway I'll keep you updated. Already enjoying not feeling like a bag of spanners at the end of a workout!
    Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far. Definitely keep us posted.

    Originally Posted by tips24x7 View Post
    Is there any nutrition plans you have and additional powerbuilding plans?
    The nutrition stickies are a good place to start. I would also add that Chase Karnes' diet advice from his excellent article "Back to the Basics" is great for anyone looking for size and strength.

    https://www.elitefts.com/education/m...to-the-basics/

    I do have a more intermediate upper/lower routine I have a few guys testing right now which is heavily influenced by Chad Waterbury. So far they're either in the first or second block so no new 1RM testing yet but they're enjoying it for the most part.

    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Do you have any good sub for lat pulldowns that allows for easy progression?

    The cable machine in my gym has increases of 5kg and I always find it hard to progress because of the big jump between weights.
    Aside from Havok's advice, you can also stay at the same weight until you can do 10+ reps with the final set and then go up from there. Either way is a good idea.

    Originally Posted by GazBenj90 View Post
    Unfortunately due to being in the navy, I tend to be a weekend warrior so rarely have time to use the gym on fri/sat. Has anyone had a crack at running this anything similar to A-B-off-A-B-off-off?
    If you're in the Navy and have regular PT sessions, twice a week might be more ideal. Easier to fit in around a PT schedule and will still give you results. If your numbers are more intermediate, I highly recommend Tactical Barbell.

    Originally Posted by itrain4life98 View Post
    Update: Strength is coming back fast! My PR deadlift was 375 belted like september 2015. I pulled 315x10 raw the other day on my first DL set and my 1rm is calculated to 420! I haven't actually tested my max and I won't for awhile, I'm just gonna progress through the program. But man, I'm excited that I'm probably in the 400 club after not lifting for so long.
    Awesome work, thanks for keeping us updated!
    Beginner Powerbuilding Routine:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169993933
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  30. #360
    Registered User GazBenj90's Avatar
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    Grouchy,
    Unfortunately I'm British, and our navy don't have PT sessions post basic training unless you can't pass a fitness test. I'm going to keep going with this and try and stick to the pattern as best as possible! Will provide updates in a while!
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