PH3 review in progress

[NotThatUgly]

I tried to make my own routien but was roundly criticized for being clueless, so instead I decided to follow Layne Norton's PH3. He recommends you are at least intermediate, and gives a minimum recommended Wilks which I just barely qualified for.

My biggest problem with the routine is that BB.com's calender/workout thing is pretty un-user friendly, e.g. you enter your 1rms, then it doesn't even populate the routine with the weights, it just says 72.5% or whatever. How hard would it be to calculate those based on the data you entered.
And the mobile version doesn't even tell you what weight to use... it just says sets and reps.... I found the easiest thing to do is actually search on my phone "PH3 day 5" or whatever, then read the instructions in the gym (doing % calcs on my phone), without even logging in to my bodyspace. Then entering the details on my home PC later. Which is a pain.

As for the actual routine, a lot of it I had to substitute exercises. My gym doesn't have a curl machine... I just did curls. I don't have equipment for BFR, so I did interset stretching, which I believe has a similar effect.

I found week 1 more challenging than the first week of most routines, the rep ranges are a little higher than I'm used to. I have a suspicion that Layne Norton created a routine that would give killer DOMs in order to market his recovery supplement. I rarely train arms and NEVER train calves, so the DOMs there are pretty insane. Hamstrings also feeling the pain.

Will update this to inform of longer term results.

[Grizzly237]

I was going to try and run it to but had the same problem.

[NotThatUgly]

the workout tracking is well and truly broken. If you track the workout and follow it properly in your calender it does not adjust based on your amraps at all, however if you simply load up the page (not through workout tracking) and enter your amrap set, it tells you it will add 1.5% next week, (obviously not being logged in or tracked, how can it possibly add anything)

After 2 weeks I hit 7 (minimum 4) on 82.5% deadlifts 3rd set, 8 on bench (82.5% 4th set of 5 reps) and 7 on squat (same % 3 set of 5)

its supposed to equate to a 1.5% increase on all lifts. I'm assuming for every day. Like I said the website is broken so it does no autocalculations for me.

As for the program so far... the reps are high, frequency is pretty high too, but nothing over 82.5% so far. I am hitting rep PRs and have more gas in the tank than I thought. If the program didn't say 9 reps, I would probably stop at 5-7, but I can do it if it's prescribed, turns out I just need someone to tell me to do it.
accessories don't give the crazy doms anymore, but the main lifts are taking a bit of a toll. I wouldn't say I'm banged up, because it's not that kind of pain, but I definitely have tightness/aching in the upper back and some in the hips too. I usually don't hurt in th eupper back, but usually i don't squat this much, so maybe that's why.

[italianplaya30]

intense stretching is not BFR....get some tourniquets from amazon for under $10 and put them on

[NotThatUgly]

amazon doesn't deliver to my country.

[NotThatUgly]

amazon doesn't deliver to my country.

I've been sloppy lately because of a work crisis/low back pain/sickness. i only got through about 2 weeks of workouts in the last month. I met my minimum reps on the last rep test so I am still on track though. The 2nd phase is more interesting, it definitely varies a lot and keeps you guessing. the only thing I don't really like about this program is the choices for assistance work. Pec deck? Really?

[kingmode]

I'd run it if I had better stats... gonna milk dat dere linear progression first.

[str8flexed]

I've been sloppy lately because of a work crisis/low back pain/sickness. i only got through about 2 weeks of workouts in the last month. I met my minimum reps on the last rep test so I am still on track though. The 2nd phase is more interesting, it definitely varies a lot and keeps you guessing. the only thing I don't really like about this program is the choices for assistance work. Pec deck? Really?

It's not a pure powerlifting program. Remember this is BODYBUILDING.com. It will work well for powerlifters, but if you'd like to sub that exercise... go for it.

As for BFR, get 2 sets of knee wraps. Use one for legs, cut the other pair in half down the middle (making it thinner) and then you can use that for arm BFR. Easy peasy.

[rossb88]

It's not a pure powerlifting program. Remember this is BODYBUILDING.com. It will work well for powerlifters, but if you'd like to sub that exercise... go for it.

As for BFR, get 2 sets of knee wraps. Use one for legs, cut the other pair in half down the middle (making it thinner) and then you can use that for arm BFR. Easy peasy.

The prgram has really helped me. I am on the last block, i have put 10kg's on my bench (140kg), 30kg on my dead (260kg) and 20kg on my squat (180kg). I am thinking of re-setting it for my new maxes and starting from the beginning in the new year.

Thanks bro!

[NotThatUgly]

The prgram has really helped me. I am on the last block, i have put 10kg's on my bench (140kg), 30kg on my dead (260kg) and 20kg on my squat (180kg). I am thinking of re-setting it for my new maxes and starting from the beginning in the new year.

Thanks bro!

How did you do on the AMRAP sets for auto-adjusting during the program? Did you end up making micro-incrememnts tot he percentages as the routine progressed or did you hit the average and still make gains by the end? At first I was exceeding expectations, but in phase 2 I just met the requirements.

[rossb88]

How did you do on the AMRAP sets for auto-adjusting during the program? Did you end up making micro-incrememnts tot he percentages as the routine progressed or did you hit the average and still make gains by the end? At first I was exceeding expectations, but in phase 2 I just met the requirements.

I would just ad the 1.5% or 2% to my previous depending on my AMRAP results. With the weight though, i wasnt to strict i just made sure it went up if i was smashing the AMRAPS. If i wasn't i would leave it, i just made sure i did the rep ranges and sets correctly and adjusted the weight where i thought suitable. I didnt get hung up on it.

[NotThatUgly]

into 2nd week of phase 3 and its getting tougher. I do shrugs occasionally and never get DOMS in traps, but I've had trap DOMS from deadlifting on monday which is unusual. The frequency was always high, but now the intensity and volume is getting pretty high too my body is still adjusting. This program is definitely a little advanced for me.

[str8flexed]

I would just ad the 1.5% or 2% to my previous depending on my AMRAP results. With the weight though, i wasnt to strict i just made sure it went up if i was smashing the AMRAPS. If i wasn't i would leave it, i just made sure i did the rep ranges and sets correctly and adjusted the weight where i thought suitable. I didnt get hung up on it.

very reasonable way to approach it

[vmwhey]

It's not a pure powerlifting program. Remember this is BODYBUILDING.com. It will work well for powerlifters, but if you'd like to sub that exercise... go for it.

As for BFR, get 2 sets of knee wraps. Use one for legs, cut the other pair in half down the middle (making it thinner) and then you can use that for arm BFR. Easy peasy.

Some of the most mentally challenging training sessions I have ever had. A lot of fun, and really pushes your physical and mental limits.

OP, make sure you are grasping the big picture. If you don't have a "pec deck" just do some other chest accessory work, not a big deal.

[NotThatUgly]

Some of the most mentally challenging training sessions I have ever had. A lot of fun, and really pushes your physical and mental limits.

OP, make sure you are grasping the big picture. If you don't have a "pec deck" just do some other chest accessory work, not a big deal.

Yeah I get that, however you will rarely find a powerlifting routine with things like curl machine and pec deck in it. I understand this is meant to be power/hypertrophy but you rarely even see stuff like that recommended in decent bodybuilding routines. Of all the assistance chest/tricep work out there he's put pec deck and tricep push downs in the routine.

I get that there's no variations because Norton is all about specificity, but there's no ab work, no lower back work, very few compound moves besides the main lifts, no compound lower body moves at ALL besides the main lifts. It's just kind of weird. I'm sticking to it as best I can though. He stated in a video that the BFR is not a must, it's just better for your joints when loading up on volume, the same thing can be accomplished with heavier weights and no BFR.

[str8flexed]

Yeah I get that, however you will rarely find a powerlifting routine with things like curl machine and pec deck in it. I understand this is meant to be power/hypertrophy but you rarely even see stuff like that recommended in decent bodybuilding routines. Of all the assistance chest/tricep work out there he's put pec deck and tricep push downs in the routine.

I get that there's no variations because Norton is all about specificity, but there's no ab work, no lower back work, very few compound moves besides the main lifts, no compound lower body moves at ALL besides the main lifts. It's just kind of weird. I'm sticking to it as best I can though. He stated in a video that the BFR is not a must, it's just better for your joints when loading up on volume, the same thing can be accomplished with heavier weights and no BFR.

you rarely see pec dec in bodybuilding programs? Serious?

[NotThatUgly]

you rarely see pec dec in bodybuilding programs? Serious?

In decent programs you rarely see it these days. Dumbell or cable flies are usually preferred.

[str8flexed]

In decent programs you rarely see it these days. Dumbell or cable flies are usually preferred.

why? What makes them better?

[vmwhey]

why? What makes them better?

I'm starting to think he's trolling you...

[jonesdave85]

In decent programs you rarely see it these days. Dumbell or cable flies are usually preferred.

I disagree about the DB flies. you can keep much more tension on the chest with the pec deck or cables as oppsed to DB's. Layne Norton is a smart and proven guy, just listen to what he says.

[NotThatUgly]

over the holidays of course I missed a few sessions and had probably 5 or 6 more rest days than the program prescribed. Getting back into regularity now and its getting very hard. The deadlift days are giving me massive upper back DOMs that I never got before. Today I have to squat 5 sets of 6 at 82.5% followed by leg hypertrophy work. I can see it being a very long session.

as for the pec deck "debate". I dunno the reasons. That's just the impression I got from being a free weights snob for years I guess.

Incidentally I should mention, the routine is now fixed and the %ages go up according to the rep tests. Yay.

[NotThatUgly]

got it done in 90 minutes. Looking at the workout on paper was so daunting, but I didn't fail a rep. The amount of volume I am able to handle now is genuinely surprising. (Day 45)

[extrabeef]

why? What makes them better?

Not OP but as a guy who's wingspan is significantly longer than my body, I'm way more comfortable using cables/dumbbells than a pre-set pec dec unless I'm working on rear delts.

[NotThatUgly]

day 47 another amrap day for deadlift and bench. 5x3 86.5% amrap last set deadlift, then 5x4 bench with amrap last set.

Pretty pleased I got 7 reps deadlift and 8 for bench. Means adding 3% to next week's lifts. For the first time my 1rm calculator says that my max has gone up based on this.

Last week I had to take an extra day off because of insane calf doms. Usually I to standing calf raises or I use the leg press, but this particular day I used the seated calf raise machine. The next day I was fine, but as I was going to sleep I felt DOMs creeping in. The next I had the worst calf DOMs ever. It was nuts. Gotta keep up the seated calf raises now so I don't get unaccustomed to them again.

[NotThatUgly]

armap squat day, same rep scheme and % as bench from previous day. Got 5 reps, which is only 1 extra. No cause to increase the % next week. Felt weak as **** from deadlifting balls to the wall yesteraday. 1rm calcluator still hasn't surpassed original 1rm, but without 4 prior sets and fatigue from yesterday I'm sure I could break my previous max.
Also got a cramp in my foot on the 4th rep. Not a painful arch cramp, but cramp in one of those muscles that moves your little toes. I get these a lot. it's annoying.

[NotThatUgly]

missed quite a few sessions due to some back pain, and work issues. I didn't miss them exactly, but I had maybe double the amount of rest days I was supposed to have. I keep getting low back stiffness and pain, but getting under the bar, sinking down into a squat and letting the weight stretch everything out seems to really help and by the end of the session I feel almost fine. This is a recurring thign I've had for many years and i think it's facet joint related.

Anyway, I performed decently on the AMRAPS at the end of phase 2. even after adding 3% to everything I still got 5-6 reps, so I need to add some more now.

I'm not sure the best way to resume a program after interruptions is. Since I did pretty well in the rep test I'm just going to continue.

[AirTimeMD]

How can I accurately track %'s? Is the online bb.com program keeping them ? I feel like when I'm getting extra reps (got 10 (6 extra) squat and 15 (11 extra) bench at end of 2nd week but my third week percentages seem to be off the beginning numbers I plugged in.. Can someone dumb this down for me and explain what the most consistent way to do this is? When I'm on week 6, I don't want to have to toggle on bb.com through 6 pages of entering in reps to then go to week 6 and find my real numbers to lift that day...

Any help would be really appreciated.

[AirTimeMD]

Bump

[NotThatUgly]

If bodyspace is working the %ages don't change, but the poundages will. So for example if you began with an 85% of 200lb and you perform weell with the amrap and add 3%, the next week will still be 85% but the weight will say 206lb. It adjusts your maximum and keeps the %ages the same.

If it isn't working, just do it yourself, add 3% to your max and use the prescribed %age for that day. I find it works on PC but not on my phone.

LOG::

Day 64

Really tough day, didn't feel good so took my time to get all the reps. It was a volume day 4x7 squat bench and 4x5 deadlift with 77.5%. Not 77.5% of the day 1 max... 77.5% of the adjusted max, which is about 82.5% of my day 1 1rm. Basically a lot of reps and pretty heavy, felt terrible but I got it done in about 90 mins, good reps.

[NotThatUgly]

Good session today, again up to 87.5% 4x2 last set amrap deadlift, the same for bench but 5 x 3.
Got 5 on the DL and 7 on the bench amrap. For the bench I'm on course to blow away my starting PR, according to a 1rm calculator, I have 12kg increase already.
Deadlift I'm looking at a nice increase too.