GOING Insane with ketone blood levels why are they DROPPING LAST POST ON this topic<3

[JonBana]

Alright , this is a long message please spend the time to read it if you are going to reply to it .

I am going insane with KETOSIS , this is my life and lifestyle for the rest of my life so i want the best of it , i monitor everything that goes into my body i weigh and record everything i can tell you what i ate 2 years ago to the exact amounts and macros just who i am ,

since i've been keto SKD 12weeks , i feel the best in my life and all my problems have gone away that doctors could not figure out i will not get into details about these because this is what this post is not about ,

Basically i monitor my blood daily hourly etc.... and its driving me crazy i eat the same food the same thing every single day to take any guessing out and changes , usually in the morning i wake up around 1.1-2.1 Mmol , with in 30 minutes it drops to 0.8-1.1 and ive done nothing but brush my teeth and walk downstairs like what the heck gives im still in ketosis but why the drop....than if i continue to monitor it will drop to 0.3-0.4 and i feel like crap all day with head aches dizzy etc. till it raises past 0.5. soon as i eat my first meal (noon I wake up around 4am) about 2 hours later they raise to 1.0 and hit about 2.0 by the end of the night , why are they so low in the morning or when i fast , i thought when you fast ketones in the blood should raise not lower .

i eat two meals a day NOON and 6pm.. i wake up at 4am and test all day .i do have a PWO protein shake on days i train and take MCT oils pre workout , but after training im 0.4-0.6 but i know thats common , but whats bugging me is why am i out of ketosis on rest days or when im fasting in the morning ... i keep dropping my protein more and more and more and its getting redicules low , i even though about dropping all supplements completly to remove any more factors...(Creatine/Beta alanine/glutamine/bcaa's etc , but they are only pre and post workout)

Stats
age 27 (male)
170LBs
5% BF
traning 5x a week 2 hour session
Calories 3,000
Fat 270-280
Protein 110g(rest days)-135g(training days)
Cho- 21g (12g-net)

This is just driving me crazy i love ketosis but i want to have higher numbers and dont get why they are dropping , im doing this for LIFE getting a tattoo this week even I don't even have tattoos that's how dedicated I am to this life<3

my one guess is when you dont eat aka fast , you use the blood ketones as energy so they appeare to drop(kind of like insulin when you don't eat carbs it lowers when you eat carbs it raises) but im being knocked out of ketosis is the problem... when you eat they raise because you are digesting food and the liver is making ketones , so thats why they are low and stay low all morning till you eat a good fat meal than they start to raise or post workout because you used them all up during training. SO when you rest and relax and sit down they raise... I cannot find any information on this

i have this stuck in my head where i want and need to be in ketosis 24/7 true or no i dont know but i need to figure out whats causing my blood levels to drop below 0.5 for no reason specially when fasting for 18hours..


this is my last post on this topic all the help would be great as i've tried everything i can think of to figure out why this is happening ,

[Wakaaa]

1.) Pics of 5%
2.) You supposedly being that low of a bf%, should know what's good or what's up with your body.

Did you tell your doctor about this?

Eat more often AND in general your day to day requirements and body needs will differ from day to day and how you respond will also be different.

[JWoodCF10]

Ok I'll try and answer some of your points, but first I'll ask a couple of questions.

Before that I'll will point out that you are obsessed, like me this is probably who you are and there is no way of changing. I do not point this out as a slight but it does lead to problems if you do not fully understand the subject of that obsession.

Ok question. Why do you think that by starving you will increase free energy in your body?
When you starve the body conserves not the opposite. If you want to increase your blood ketones you can do it by eating MCT's or by increasing demand, to get your body to break down fats to ketones it requiers energy and if not required the body won't bother to make them.

There is a drive to believe that the higher the ketone level the better the fat burning, this is not true, you will burn the fat while doing exercise of the right intensity. After 12 weeks you will be fat adapted which means you will now have the cellular machinery to handle mostly fats this does not mean ketones, this means fats. Ketones are a way of transporting energy round the body, but your fats are used as energy within the cell.

The only exception is the brain, it needs ketones to thrive, therefore when you stave you have to do it for long enough, without any glycogen / glucose to feed the brain. For this reason, and from what you say you need to eat more regularly.

Unlike glucose there is no lower limit on ketones that triggers a response in the human, this means that you will use them all, before a drive for energy is created.

In short your numbers are fine, but your diet needs to be tweaked to fit YOUR lifestyle.

If you want more of the biochemical answers, or more mechanistic answers, I am happy to oblige, but I have a tendency not to detail them unless someone ones them :-).

[adamsz]

You need serious psychiatric help. The behavior you describe is not normal and is not conducive to living a healthy life. Please seek help, I am completely serious.

[repower]

Ok I'll try and answer some of your points, but first I'll ask a couple of questions.

Before that I'll will point out that you are obsessed, like me this is probably who you are and there is no way of changing. I do not point this out as a slight but it does lead to problems if you do not fully understand the subject of that obsession.

Ok question. Why do you think that by starving you will increase free energy in your body?
When you starve the body conserves not the opposite. If you want to increase your blood ketones you can do it by eating MCT's or by increasing demand, to get your body to break down fats to ketones it requiers energy and if not required the body won't bother to make them.

There is a drive to believe that the higher the ketone level the better the fat burning, this is not true, you will burn the fat while doing exercise of the right intensity. After 12 weeks you will be fat adapted which means you will now have the cellular machinery to handle mostly fats this does not mean ketones, this means fats. Ketones are a way of transporting energy round the body, but your fats are used as energy within the cell.

The only exception is the brain, it needs ketones to thrive, therefore when you stave you have to do it for long enough, without any glycogen / glucose to feed the brain. For this reason, and from what you say you need to eat more regularly.

Unlike glucose there is no lower limit on ketones that triggers a response in the human, this means that you will use them all, before a drive for energy is created.

In short your numbers are fine, but your diet needs to be tweaked to fit YOUR lifestyle.

If you want more of the biochemical answers, or more mechanistic answers, I am happy to oblige, but I have a tendency not to detail them unless someone ones them :-).

Pretty sweet information

[repower]

1.) Pics of 5%
2.) You supposedly being that low of a bf%, should know what's good or what's up with your body.

Did you tell your doctor about this?

Eat more often AND in general your day to day requirements and body needs will differ from day to day and how you respond will also be different.

The dude have the skin like a dick in all his body (lol), see his IG.

[gbullock32]

Your threads are both amusing and disturbing... get help.

[nicholina]

As far as morning lows....your body naturally raises its blood sugar in the morning, called the dawn phenomenon.

[Metalmank]

You need serious psychiatric help. The behavior you describe is not normal and is not conducive to living a healthy life. Please seek help, I am completely serious.

^ this

[JonBana]

Uh

Ok I'll try and answer some of your points, but first I'll ask a couple of questions.

Before that I'll will point out that you are obsessed, like me this is probably who you are and there is no way of changing. I do not point this out as a slight but it does lead to problems if you do not fully understand the subject of that obsession.

Ok question. Why do you think that by starving you will increase free energy in your body?
When you starve the body conserves not the opposite. If you want to increase your blood ketones you can do it by eating MCT's or by increasing demand, to get your body to break down fats to ketones it requiers energy and if not required the body won't bother to make them.

There is a drive to believe that the higher the ketone level the better the fat burning, this is not true, you will burn the fat while doing exercise of the right intensity. After 12 weeks you will be fat adapted which means you will now have the cellular machinery to handle mostly fats this does not mean ketones, this means fats. Ketones are a way of transporting energy round the body, but your fats are used as energy within the cell.

The only exception is the brain, it needs ketones to thrive, therefore when you stave you have to do it for long enough, without any glycogen / glucose to feed the brain. For this reason, and from what you say you need to eat more regularly.

Unlike glucose there is no lower limit on ketones that triggers a response in the human, this means that you will use them all, before a drive for energy is created.

In short your numbers are fine, but your diet needs to be tweaked to fit YOUR lifestyle.

If you want more of the biochemical answers, or more mechanistic answers, I am happy to oblige, but I have a tendency not to detail them unless someone ones them :-).

How am I starving myself ? I force myself to eat 3,000 calories a day and I'm gaining 0.25 pounds a week as planned and eating two meals a day suits my lifestyle ..

I want to know why I'm dropping out of ketosis from my fast in the morning or post workout and how much does is matter when you drop out of ketosis ,

Basically what causes ketones in the blood to lower ? Is it lack of digesting fasts or is it something else because they are being used for energy because from what i understand if you're out of ketosis you're a sugar burner not s fat burner and eating 270g of fat a day would be bad to be a sugar burner

And yes this is who I am I'm obsessed about things like this

[JonBana]

1.) Pics of 5%
2.) You supposedly being that low of a bf%, should know what's good or what's up with your body.

Did you tell your doctor about this?

Eat more often AND in general your day to day requirements and body needs will differ from day to day and how you respond will also be different.

How am I starving myself when I'm gaining 0.25 pounds a week and eating pass fullness lol. Pictures ? There all over my Instagram with measurements bodpod testing dex scanning results lol I don't hide anything

And I know what's good for my body this has notbing to do with figuring out why ketones kn the blood drop its a question what causes it

[JonBana]

The dude have the skin like a dick in all his body (lol), see his IG.

Lmfao compliment I think ? Lol

[JonBana]

As far as morning lows....your body naturally raises its blood sugar in the morning, called the dawn phenomenon.

Morning is usually my highest that's the weird thing until I walk around for and get ready for work than they drop in half.wothin 30 minutes I'm just trying to figure out why ... My guess is the body uses them for energy so they disappear in the blood , so when you eat the left overs go back into the blood

Doing final testing today and my rest day Thursday to hopefully prove this theory

[JWoodCF10]

Uh

How am I starving myself ? I force myself to eat 3,000 calories a day and I'm gaining 0.25 pounds a week as planned and eating two meals a day suits my lifestyle ..

I want to know why I'm dropping out of ketosis from my fast in the morning or post workout and how much does is matter when you drop out of ketosis ,

Basically what causes ketones in the blood to lower ? Is it lack of digesting fasts or is it something else because they are being used for energy because from what i understand if you're out of ketosis you're a sugar burner not s fat burner and eating 270g of fat a day would be bad to be a sugar burner

And yes this is who I am I'm obsessed about things like this

I'll answer you fully when I get to a keyboard.

But in the mean time I want you to look up three things

1 IFIK and why it's called intermittent fasting intermittent ketosis
2 how fart burning works and what the ketones are for
3 what happens to most of the protein you eat if you eat 60-70 gm in one sitting followed very shortly by another load of the same.

I am not trying to have a go at you or belittle you or tell you your daft. Just trying to help.

But it would help me to help you if you understood those factors.

[JonBana]

I'll answer you fully when I get to a keyboard.

But in the mean time I want you to look up three things

1 IFIK and why it's called intermittent fasting intermittent ketosis
2 how fart burning works and what the ketones are for
3 what happens to most of the protein you eat if you eat 60-70 gm in one sitting followed very shortly by another load of the same.

I am not trying to have a go at you or belittle you or tell you your daft. Just trying to help.

But it would help me to help you if you understood those factors.

1. I will when I have time
2. I know how they work , you burn fat with ketones above 0.5
3. I don't eat that much protein per meal , pwo 30g / meal 1 45g / meal 2 45g.

I also check my insulin levels and they are always 70 or lower , so everything is fine from the protein


P.M

[nicholina]

1. I will when I have time
2. I know how they work , you burn fat with ketones above 0.5
3. I don't eat that much protein per meal , pwo 30g / meal 1 45g / meal 2 45g.

I also check my insulin levels and they are always 70 or lower , so everything is fine from the protein


P.M

You can't check insulin levels at home...

[muruku]

Have you read this https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/commen...one_envy_ever/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience...ketone_levels/

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/commen..._and_after_my/

http://www.ketotic.org/2014/04/keto-...o-ketones.html

[JWoodCF10]

1. I will when I have time
2. I know how they work , you burn fat with ketones above 0.5
3. I don't eat that much protein per meal , pwo 30g / meal 1 45g / meal 2 45g.

I also check my insulin levels and they are always 70 or lower , so everything is fine from the protein


P.M

I'll address point 2 first, as it is potentially the most important for you.

Fat adaptation and ketosis are two separate things. I have had multiple patients on my wards who have gone into nutritional ketosis without ever becoming fat adapted. Ketosis happens when the brain asks for fuel, and that fuel can not be supplied by glucose. The purpose of the ketone bodies is that they can cross the blood brain barrier. Within normal muscle cells they are converted back into acetyl-coA to be used, this again requires energy. In our muscle cells when we burn fats, we don't make excess ketone bodies to release back out into the blood stream the whole fat molecule is normally metabolised in-situ. The ketone bodies are made within the liver.

Fat adaptation is where we alter our cellular machinery so we can utensil fats better than we could before. If you look at ultra runners, iron man competitors, or adventure racers they are all very well fat adapted, but they probably produce very few ketones, as they regularly eat carbs. In the space of a race, they use about

Ph and Vol have come up with the concept that ketotic diets and fat adapted diets are the same thing. They then stated that to be in nutritional ketosis you have to have blood ketone levels above 0.5. This is their opinion, and there are other opinions from other scientists. As an example Lyle states that there is no weight loss benefit from being in ketosis, over a low carb diet where by you are fully fat adapted.

Overall getting hung up on how many ketones you are producing is not going to help matters. There may be reasons why you still have a fair bit of glycogen, and you brain and CNS are still able to utilise these resources. You could try eliminating nearly all your protein, and especially milk proteins as an experiment, but I imagine that this would be counter productive to your goals of a lean baulk. If however, you go across to some of the low carb forums you will find journals and blogs of people who have done this.

Point 3: I think even if you are taking 45 gm you are going to be making a good bit of sugars from this, anything more than about 25gm in a single sitting would be considered a lot to be used by the body purely for muscle building.

My comment on you starving yourself from my first post is the fact that you carry out an 18 hour fast if your only meals are noon and 6pm. It was not trying to say you are not getting the calories in. But this is why I think you would benefit from reading up about IFIK and what it does to the body.

[JonBana]

I'll address point 2 first, as it is potentially the most important for you.

Fat adaptation and ketosis are two separate things. I have had multiple patients on my wards who have gone into nutritional ketosis without ever becoming fat adapted. Ketosis happens when the brain asks for fuel, and that fuel can not be supplied by glucose. The purpose of the ketone bodies is that they can cross the blood brain barrier. Within normal muscle cells they are converted back into acetyl-coA to be used, this again requires energy. In our muscle cells when we burn fats, we don't make excess ketone bodies to release back out into the blood stream the whole fat molecule is normally metabolised in-situ. The ketone bodies are made within the liver.

Fat adaptation is where we alter our cellular machinery so we can utensil fats better than we could before. If you look at ultra runners, iron man competitors, or adventure racers they are all very well fat adapted, but they probably produce very few ketones, as they regularly eat carbs. In the space of a race, they use about

Ph and Vol have come up with the concept that ketotic diets and fat adapted diets are the same thing. They then stated that to be in nutritional ketosis you have to have blood ketone levels above 0.5. This is their opinion, and there are other opinions from other scientists. As an example Lyle states that there is no weight loss benefit from being in ketosis, over a low carb diet where by you are fully fat adapted.

Overall getting hung up on how many ketones you are producing is not going to help matters. There may be reasons why you still have a fair bit of glycogen, and you brain and CNS are still able to utilise these resources. You could try eliminating nearly all your protein, and especially milk proteins as an experiment, but I imagine that this would be counter productive to your goals of a lean baulk. If however, you go across to some of the low carb forums you will find journals and blogs of people who have done this.

Point 3: I think even if you are taking 45 gm you are going to be making a good bit of sugars from this, anything more than about 25gm in a single sitting would be considered a lot to be used by the body purely for muscle building.

My comment on you starving yourself from my first post is the fact that you carry out an 18 hour fast if your only meals are noon and 6pm. It was not trying to say you are not getting the calories in. But this is why I think you would benefit from reading up about IFIK and what it does to the body.

First off , thank you very much for the very very very detailed reply , unlike the haters on here just bashing when im taking this serious and for life , thanks

but heres the main thing.... why when I fast my ketones DROP.. that's what is confusing me ... obviously glucose is being made some how , every single day I wake up 1.1-2.1 every day with in 30minutes of just brushing my teeth and not even drinking water they drop in half , so whats happening , or you don't have an answer for this problem ? i'm always above 0.5 after meals till morning than they drop , or post workout , but I know post workout is normal because you're body will produce glycogen from the muscles and etc specially weight training but I usually come out around 0.6-0.7(2hour training with 2tbsp mct oil pre) once in a while 0.3-0.4 (this is with only 1tbsp pre of mct oil)

Now I know being in or out of ketosis have no effect on fat lost... but I can tell when i'm out because i'm weak tired dizzy and get a headache , and to me personally being strict as I am I want to be In 100%% specially after 12 weeks I don't ingest any carbs nothing , I even went down to 11G carbs not net I don't count net ,

when it comes to protein I've already dropped it a crazy amount and I don't want to go any lower because of muscle lost , specially when im trying to build muscle , so when you think is , im not 100% fat adapted yet even after all this time in ketosis , and eating correctly and doing everything by the book ?
as for milk proteins I don't eat any , expect this week I've been eating bri cheese triple cream , but this has no carbs as all don't know if this counts or not .

tomorrow is my final test for a while hopefully , its my rest day I normally fast till noon with just a black coffee and watch my ketone levels drop when they should be raising , tomorrow im going to do a bullet proof coffee 1tbsp coconut oil and 1tbsp(15g) grass fed butter and see if my levels stay stable raise or drop , but even if they stay level or raise I don't know what this proves if anything at all?

also I did look into IFIK and this is why im doing the bullet proof coffee tomorrow to see what happens , but honestly I just want to find an answer why im dropping out during a fast when they should raise , cause my goal of being on a ketogenic diet is to be in ketosis 24/7 specially since I track everything and take everything to the extreme just my personal choice with this



What I think is why ketone levels drop in the blood is the following , when active , training or walking around brain using them , the blood levels seem low because you are using them up as fuel .... when you get home sit down and relax (poked finger after 2 hours of relaxing) 2.3mmol , they raise because they are not being used , this is why when I wake up they are high and than slowly disappear through out the day till I eat more fat to produce more does this make sense or completely wrong , specially during training they all get used up so PWO you show low

[JonBana]

Have you read this https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/commen...one_envy_ever/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience...ketone_levels/

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/commen..._and_after_my/

http://www.ketotic.org/2014/04/keto-...o-ketones.html

Thanks for the links the first one kind of goes with what I think is happening , when I fast they lower because they are being used when I rest they raise cause they are not being used

[tbiv21]

I'm normally a lurker, but felt I would chime in. I believe your low in ketones is also related to the dawn phenomenon like nicholina said. I can't post a link since this is my first post but world wide web ketogenic-diet-resource.com/dawn-phenomenon. I have a professor right now who studies obesity and has been on a keto diet for several years and he explained that even his ketone levels go down in the morning because your body releases more blood sugar at night leading to a higher level of insulin in the morning. This would affect your ketone levels because if there is more glucose in your blood then your body wouldn't need as many ketones for energy since there is glucose available for fuel. This is just a guess though.

[JonBana]

I'm normally a lurker, but felt I would chime in. I believe your low in ketones is also related to the dawn phenomenon like nicholina said. I can't post a link since this is my first post but world wide web ketogenic-diet-resource.com/dawn-phenomenon. I have a professor right now who studies obesity and has been on a keto diet for several years and he explained that even his ketone levels go down in the morning because your body releases more blood sugar at night leading to a higher level of insulin in the morning. This would affect your ketone levels because if there is more glucose in your blood then your body wouldn't need as many ketones for energy since there is glucose available for fuel. This is just a guess though.

Interesting reading because that's the time I wake up between 4-9am

[JWoodCF10]

I'm normally a lurker, but felt I would chime in. I believe your low in ketones is also related to the dawn phenomenon like nicholina said. I can't post a link since this is my first post but world wide web ketogenic-diet-resource.com/dawn-phenomenon. I have a professor right now who studies obesity and has been on a keto diet for several years and he explained that even his ketone levels go down in the morning because your body releases more blood sugar at night leading to a higher level of insulin in the morning. This would affect your ketone levels because if there is more glucose in your blood then your body wouldn't need as many ketones for energy since there is glucose available for fuel. This is just a guess though.

You are not to far off the mark, but it is the cortisol diurnal rhythm rather than insulin, there is no inherent rhythm to the release of insulin.

And its a good point.

@JB I would still say the salient point is to not worry about it.

There are lots of reason why the levels go down, and as I said there is no lower level to trigger a response, if they are low, the brain is happy with the fuel it has.

After 12 weeks you are fully fat adapted, and you are primed to be able to utilise whatever fuel source you need. That is the benefit of this diet. I do not think trying to manipulate the levels is a good thing, and likewise I got to a point where I stopped testing, once I had got a good handle on my levels, and at what points the change I was happy.

Over time you will be able to feel when they are high, but you should never feel when they are low.

Out of curiosity have you mapped you blood sugar levels over the same periods?

[JonBana]

You are not to far off the mark, but it is the cortisol diurnal rhythm rather than insulin, there is no inherent rhythm to the release of insulin.

And its a good point.

@JB I would still say the salient point is to not worry about it.

There are lots of reason why the levels go down, and as I said there is no lower level to trigger a response, if they are low, the brain is happy with the fuel it has.

After 12 weeks you are fully fat adapted, and you are primed to be able to utilise whatever fuel source you need. That is the benefit of this diet. I do not think trying to manipulate the levels is a good thing, and likewise I got to a point where I stopped testing, once I had got a good handle on my levels, and at what points the change I was happy.

Over time you will be able to feel when they are high, but you should never feel when they are low.

Out of curiosity have you mapped you blood sugar levels over the same periods?

How do you feel when they are high just total energy?

and yes I mapped BS levels , steady 70 all day long after meals before meals training etc never above 75

[JerryB]

I think you are too preoccupied with your blood ketone levels. The level of ketones in the blood is a function of Ketogenesis, Ketones created by the liver, and ketolysis, the use of ketones by organs such as the brain and muscles. The level of ketones is therefore a function of two variables, production and the usage. This is the reason I do not become too concerned about my blood ketone level when it falls into the 0.50 to 0.90 range and my diet is 70% fats. My primary source of energy is from fatty acids either going into the krebs cycle for ATP production or converted to ketones which will also enter the krebs cycle for ATP production. My thinking is the higher levels of blood ketones may indicated Ketogenesis is far exceeding ketolysis. Also you cannot assume higher ketones guarantee more fat lost. A caloric deficit is still a requirement.

[JonBana]

I think you are too preoccupied with your blood ketone levels. The level of ketones in the blood is a function of Ketogenesis, Ketones created by the liver, and ketolysis, the use of ketones by organs such as the brain and muscles. The level of ketones is therefore a function of two variables, production and the usage. This is the reason I do not become too concerned about my blood ketone level when it falls into the 0.50 to 0.90 range and my diet is 70% fats. My primary source of energy is from fatty acids either going into the krebs cycle for ATP production or converted to ketones which will also enter the krebs cycle for ATP production. My thinking is the higher levels of blood ketones may indicated Ketogenesis is far exceeding ketolysis. Also you cannot assume higher ketones guarantee more fat lost. A caloric deficit is still a requirement.

Thank you Jerry you always calm me down with you're laid back answers and knowledge , im going to pretend that same , low levels means my body is using them , high levels means im being lazy and they are building up and being ready to be used !!

I put away my blood meter and breath testing and stixs , and going free for two weeks , as im always in keto , and I can tell when im not . I need to enjoy keto now specially what im doing today , I will make a post later with my commitment for this lifestyle

some people while bash me call me stupid typical but I don't care ,


have a great day Jerry

[JerryB]

Thank you Jerry you always calm me down with you're laid back answers and knowledge , im going to pretend that same , low levels means my body is using them , high levels means im being lazy and they are building up and being ready to be used !!

I put away my blood meter and breath testing and stixs , and going free for two weeks , as im always in keto , and I can tell when im not . I need to enjoy keto now specially what im doing today , I will make a post later with my commitment for this lifestyle

some people while bash me call me stupid typical but I don't care ,


have a great day Jerry

I'm not pretending. Pretending implies acting to make it appear when in fact it is not. The ketones produced by my liver are being used for metabolism given my diet is 70% fats and my body fat is not increasing. The blood ketone measurement indicates the delta in the rate of production and usage. I'm not pretending this is happening.

You may find the website, http://eatingacademy.com/weight-loss...ns-of-fat-flux, by Dr. Peter Attia interesting

The following are graphics I use to understand whats happening when into nutritional ketosis.

[Jgalinski]

Beta hydroxybuterate is not a ketone. It is a carboxylic acid produced from acetoacetate when the cell is in a certain rexdox state. Blood beta hydroxybuterate is only an indirect measure of acetoacetate production from fatty acid beta oxidation, essentially ketosis. It does not mean anything by itself. The sad part is that people will argue this to the death when they are misinformed. You can have low BHB and still be in ketosis, especially if your body is converting acetoacetate to acetone at a faster rate or if you are using acetoacetate itself quickly as a Krebs cycle intermediate for formation of acetyl-coA. BHB has to be converted back into acetoacetate to be used for energy otherwise its useless. Don't get hung up on blood BHB if you are losing weight and feel good.

[JonBana]

Beta hydroxybuterate is not a ketone. It is a carboxylic acid produced from acetoacetate when the cell is in a certain rexdox state. Blood beta hydroxybuterate is only an indirect measure of acetoacetate production from fatty acid beta oxidation, essentially ketosis. It does not mean anything by itself. The sad part is that people will argue this to the death when they are misinformed. You can have low BHB and still be in ketosis, especially if your body is converting acetoacetate to acetone at a faster rate or if you are using acetoacetate itself quickly as a Krebs cycle intermediate for formation of acetyl-coA. BHB has to be converted back into acetoacetate to be used for energy otherwise its useless. Don't get hung up on blood BHB if you are losing weight and feel good.

I don't know what to say . lol . (do you have any studies or anything on this im very interested after your reply)

can you explain a little more simpler as well ?

I'm very interested in what you're saying though and would like to know more , I always thought when BHB levels are low or what ever they are low because you are using them up but according to everyone that's not the case.. they say the higher the BHB levels the better cause BHB is from a ketone with is from FFA usage , so higher levels mean you are burning FFA and no sugars , so whats the best way to tell and measure nutritional ketosis state so I can hopefully up my protein intake more because its been pretty low lately... and trying to figure out why ,

also i'm not losing weight i'm gaining , i'm bulking / LBM

one thing that's bugs me is I don't have keto breath or the taste in my mouth or anything 13 weeks in steady , not sure if that's a good or bad sign

[Sholbk1]

Hi JonBana,

Depending how long you have been in ketosis, your body starts to use the ketones and you won't see them in your blood as much or on your breath. it means you have gone to the next phase of keto adaptation. Check out Jimmy Moore's info at Livin La Vita Low Carb some other keto athletes are Zach Bitter and Jon Olson.

Ketones are usually lower in the morning and higher in the evening. That isn't unusual. How much salt are you taking in? You need more salt when you are in ketosis. Without the salt, your blood pressure can drop and make you feel like crap.

You might be interested in the movie Cereal Killers 2, all about a couple who rowed from California to Hawaii on a ketogenic diet.


What program are you following? Have you read the Anabolic Diet by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale.