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  1. #1
    Registered User Mertcann85's Avatar
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    Lifting weights and BW correlation

    I have to admit; this won't be easy to ask it, not only because of English not being my native, but also the logic behind the question is a little bit odd, but still something does not match here.

    Ok, when we check the workout programs, solid ones generally base on bulking to be able to lift MORE weights. Hence, as we can see from powerlifters, strongmen; there is an undeniable correlation between BW and lifting more weights.


    However, now comes the Olympic Lifters.

    Senior Men World Records:

    @56 kg: Clean & Jerk---171 kg, @62 kg: Clean&Jerk----183 kg, @69 kg: Snatch----166 kg.

    So, I do not expect a basic maths behind the numbers even bearing in mind that, we take "World Records" as reference But, what I expect is a fundamental correlation between BW and lifting weights. Cause, if someone can clean&jerk 171 kg at 56 kg, when did she/he start to lift and at what weight?

    Cause, strongmen come around 150-194 kg to be able to lift ~x2.5 BW deadlift, or 175-205 kg Austrian Oak. And to achieve this, they all have a basis and then they bulk for lifting more weights. For sure, being able to lift more weights is not a linear progression, yet there still should be an estimated barrier, set, standart to be able to reach before targeting the future:

    To say, being able to lift around X kg at Y kg BW; before bulking?


    So, the "something does not match" part, actually starts here for me. Do these olympic lifters start at bulking when they were 30-35 kg?

    If not, isn't bulking a necessity for lifting more weights? Or is this where PEDs join into the game? Or, comparing lightweight class BW x 2 lift vs heavyweight class BW x 2 lift for their each class is totally meaningless because of some reason(which is ?? )

    I hope I make sense, cause it was quite complicated to ask this easy question, maybe I made it complicated

    However, I guess what I try to figure out is a rough estimation and estimated standard, of the question above "Being able to lift around X kg at Y kg BW, before bulking..." if it involves some logic behind it.
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    PEDs are going to factor in whenever you look at highest levels of a sport.

    You would expect all the athletes to have substantially more lean mass than they did before they trained yes, whether that means a different weight entirely depends on how much fat they had before and now. One would generally presume those in lower weight classes probably lost a fair bit of fat.

    Weightlifting is also going to be less bw related than powerlifting or strongman since its a power sport that relies on speed and technique as much as muscle mass and strength.
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    However, I guess what I try to figure out is a rough estimation and estimated standard, of the question above "Being able to lift around X kg at Y kg BW, before bulking..." if it involves some logic behind it.
    I'll just assume that by "bulking", you actually mean "increasing muscle mass".

    No, there is and never will be any standard pertaining to this. Sure, muscle mass is a huge part of determining how much weight you can lift, but it's NOT the only driving factor.

    - Muscle mass
    - Technique
    - Biomechanics / leverages
    - Contractile strength per muscle unit

    Technique and leverages may also change as you increase or decrease your mass.
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    actually, there are many olympic lifters, particularly the chinese and the russians that start lifting from a very early age.

    olympic lifting is a very technical sport as well, as well as requiring the training of modalities of power/speed/strength. it's not unusual to see somebody not gain much BW but see huge increases in the C&J and Snatch. This is mainly due to the technical/neural aspect of the lift which requires many moving parts. Obviously you can expect guys at higher BW to lift more on the olympic lifts. But at the same time at the top of the top, there are always going to be outliers and guys who are freaks among freaks. not to mention the use of illegal stuff
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    Registered User Mertcann85's Avatar
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    Seems like i underestimate the effect of speed and technique in terms of olmypic lifting. And i think too superficial, by comparing strongmen, powerlifting and olympic lifting just regarding to “weight”.

    Starting at early ages to train and PEDs are also important factors just like you guys mentioned.

    Thank you all for your time!
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    This is a planning table for determining the optimal weight category of an athlete from a weightlifting textbook.
    Indeed, in light categories they raise a lot.
    But...
    -You try to inquire about the growth of these athletes. The same great Naim Suleiman-oglu was only 147 cm tall, the inaccessible champion in powerlifting Fedosienko was 146 cm.
    - And yet in each subsequent weight category they raise even more than in the previous one. Those. dependence on muscle mass is still observed. Name at least one lightweight lifter who is at least close to the results of Talakhadze or Sarychev. There are simply no such ...
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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    Registered User Mertcann85's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    This is a planning table for determining the optimal weight category of an athlete from a weightlifting textbook.
    Indeed, in light categories they raise a lot.
    But...
    -You try to inquire about the growth of these athletes. The same great Naim Suleiman-oglu was only 147 cm tall, the inaccessible champion in powerlifting Fedosienko was 146 cm.
    - And yet in each subsequent weight category they raise even more than in the previous one. Those. dependence on muscle mass is still observed. Name at least one lightweight lifter who is at least close to the results of Talakhadze or Sarychev. There are simply no such ...

    Mann, this is gold! Is it possible for you to find those pages in English, or can you please spell the name of the book so that i can try to find it out myself? Seems like an epic resource!! Thanks and repped!

    And one word about Naim, Bulgarian based geneticly gifted “pocket hercule”. Still lots of documentaries broadcasted here after his death about his 3xBW lifts.

    Yet my hero is still Klokov
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    Seems like i underestimate the effect of speed and technique in terms of olmypic lifting. And i think too superficial, by comparing strongmen, powerlifting and olympic lifting just regarding to “weight”.

    Starting at early ages to train and PEDs are also important factors just like you guys mentioned.

    Thank you all for your time!
    Speed is directly dependent on muscle strength.
    There is even a concept such as "explosive strenght."
    But it directly depends on static (slow strenght).
    You will never perform a weightlifting clean@jerk with all 200 kg if you are not able to sit down with a barbell on your back at least 230-240 kg.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  9. #9
    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    Mann, this is gold! Is it possible for you to find those pages in English, or can you please spell the name of the book so that i can try to find it out myself? Seems like an epic resource!! Thanks and repped!

    And one word about Naim, Bulgarian based geneticly gifted “pocket hercule”. Still lots of documentaries broadcasted here after his death about his 3xBW lifts.

    Yet my hero is still Klokov
    The book is called "The system of many years of training in weightlifting." It was written by Alexei Medvedev, one of the fathers of modern training in power sports.
    It is unlikely that you will find it in English ....
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
    Reply With Quote

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