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  1. #2011
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    I am running auto-reg on a cut of 1800 calories and I still can't get my weight below 72kg >. Been stuck there for like a month now, wtf. I have "cheat" days once or twice a week but it's nothing major, so I don't see how that can be cancelling out all the other days where I get even lower than 1800 sometimes. Don't have time to do cardio. I guess my only option is to cut even lower than 1800? I track my calories with an app, but even with some margin of error there is no way 1800 calories can be maintenance for a 5'10" male.

    One thing I wanted to check with auto reg is the volume. When I increase the weight the volume drops due to lower reps. Is this part of the program so we have a "break"? For example I just got my squat back up to 95kg x10, so the volume went from:
    90kg x 12 x 2 = 2160
    to
    95kg x 10 x 2 = 1900

    I think this is normal, but I was tempted to do an extra set at the end to bring the volume back up. I guess I should stick to 2 sets right?
    A 5'10" male should weigh about 170-175lbs after the n00b 10-15lb weight gain in the first 12-18 months. You cant look like you lift and have a bmi of 21-22...

    Back to the volume bit. Yes as intensity goes up tonnage should go down. So if you were at 12 reps at 60-65%, adding 10% more weight should increase your intensity to 70-75% while dropping the tonnage 10%.
    If you have been stuck at the same rep amount for weeks, you can add an additional set, and just not count it towards the rep goal. Then once you get the 24 reps on the first 2 sets, you drop the 3rd set, as its just a tool.

    And no there is not breaks built into the program, thats why its not for absolute beginners that dont know when/how to deload to let everything heal up.
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  2. #2012
    Registered User WrathfulOne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A 5'10" male should weigh about 170-175lbs after the n00b 10-15lb weight gain in the first 12-18 months. You cant look like you lift and have a bmi of 21-22...

    Back to the volume bit. Yes as intensity goes up tonnage should go down. So if you were at 12 reps at 60-65%, adding 10% more weight should increase your intensity to 70-75% while dropping the tonnage 10%.
    If you have been stuck at the same rep amount for weeks, you can add an additional set, and just not count it towards the rep goal. Then once you get the 24 reps on the first 2 sets, you drop the 3rd set, as its just a tool.

    And no there is not breaks built into the program, thats why its not for absolute beginners that dont know when/how to deload to let everything heal up.
    Maybe I should play the poverty genetics card then since I've been doing compound lifts for 2.5 years (majority of the time on AllPro or Fierce 5 with a short stint on 5/3/1 BBB for 2 months I think) and the highest weight I reached was 78kg/172lbs :P. That was when I as consciously bulking on Greek yogurt, oats, coconut oil and chicken.

    Now I'm about the same weight as when I started at 72kg but I still have some belly fat/love handles so I decided to try get visible abs.

    My working weights are:
    Squats: 95kg x 10
    OHP: 35kg x10
    Bench: 52.5 x 10

    Bleak....
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  3. #2013
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    Maybe I should play the poverty genetics card then since I've been doing compound lifts for 2.5 years (majority of the time on AllPro or Fierce 5 with a short stint on 5/3/1 BBB for 2 months I think) and the highest weight I reached was 78kg/172lbs :P. That was when I as consciously bulking on Greek yogurt, oats, coconut oil and chicken.

    Now I'm about the same weight as when I started at 72kg but I still have some belly fat/love handles so I decided to try get visible abs.

    My working weights are:
    Squats: 95kg x 10
    OHP: 35kg x10
    Bench: 52.5 x 10

    Bleak....
    Your squat is doing good, but that bench is looking grim, it should be around body weight, with your background.

    Im pretty sure its due to your body weight and diet. You will hear coaches over and over say that trying to get at your strongest "at a bmi of 22" is just not going to happen, with with a goal of just increasing power to weight ratio. Its going to take about 5-10 years to increase your stats by 33% without weight gain.

    And based on your 78kg calories, it sounds like you need 3000-3300 cals at that weight, and that seems about right. At some point going low in calories just causes your body to underperform and be less twitchy/energetic throughout the day in order to maintain a certain min body weight. I can tell by my fit bit right away if i had a 3k calorie week or a 2k calorie week. My steps go from about 13k down to about 8-9k, and that is just subconsciously doing it.
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  4. #2014
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Your squat is doing good, but that bench is looking grim, it should be around body weight, with your background.

    Im pretty sure its due to your body weight and diet. You will hear coaches over and over say that trying to get at your strongest "at a bmi of 22" is just not going to happen, with with a goal of just increasing power to weight ratio. Its going to take about 5-10 years to increase your stats by 33% without weight gain.

    And based on your 78kg calories, it sounds like you need 3000-3300 cals at that weight, and that seems about right. At some point going low in calories just causes your body to underperform and be less twitchy/energetic throughout the day in order to maintain a certain min body weight. I can tell by my fit bit right away if i had a 3k calorie week or a 2k calorie week. My steps go from about 13k down to about 8-9k, and that is just subconsciously doing it.
    Yeah my bench got screwed since I got tendonitis in my left arm from benching while doing 5/3/1 BBB. I had to stop pressing for over a month I think, so I dropped way back on it, and then I was ill so I had to take another month off and my squats are the only thing I was able to maintain. I believe OHP and bench are also more sensitive to bodyweight, so since I haven't been eating enough they have suffered.

    I tend to flip flop on my weight since if I cut like now, I reach a point where I'm sick of it so I go back to bulking and then I look chubby so I cut again. I've been cutting on 1800 calories for 12 weeks and initially was dropping 500g bw per week until I hit 72kg and now I've been stuck there for a month! I should have been 70kg by now. I used the online navy calculator and it reckons I'm 15% bf. I wanted to hit 10% like Lyle McDonald recommends before bulking again.

    Maybe I should just do your method using the AllPro diet. I believe your thinking is to effectively "out-train" the number of calories your are eating until they become your maintenance? So for me if I am maintaining on 1800 calories, then the AllPro diet of 2100 calories would be bulking for me, but if I stuck to it eventually I would get strong enough that that would become a deficit for me.

    Is this correct? Is it still advisable to use this relatively high carb diet if I can't do the 10k jogs? I barely have time to go to gym 3x/week so I can't do the cardio to use up the carbs on non-training days.
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  5. #2015
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    Today is supposed to be my light day for Week 4 (11 reps) but I have a muscle sprain on my middle back from sitting too much watching the damn DNC all day for almost 4 days straight. Next week is my week 5 (12 reps) and test day is on Tuesday. I completed all my reps this week and I feel like I can pass 12 reps but I'm a little concerned I'll lose my progress if I skip light day today. Any advice?
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  6. #2016
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    Yeah my bench got screwed since I got tendonitis in my left arm from benching while doing 5/3/1 BBB. I had to stop pressing for over a month I think, so I dropped way back on it, and then I was ill so I had to take another month off and my squats are the only thing I was able to maintain. I believe OHP and bench are also more sensitive to bodyweight, so since I haven't been eating enough they have suffered.

    I tend to flip flop on my weight since if I cut like now, I reach a point where I'm sick of it so I go back to bulking and then I look chubby so I cut again. I've been cutting on 1800 calories for 12 weeks and initially was dropping 500g bw per week until I hit 72kg and now I've been stuck there for a month! I should have been 70kg by now. I used the online navy calculator and it reckons I'm 15% bf. I wanted to hit 10% like Lyle McDonald recommends before bulking again.

    Maybe I should just do your method using the AllPro diet. I believe your thinking is to effectively "out-train" the number of calories your are eating until they become your maintenance? So for me if I am maintaining on 1800 calories, then the AllPro diet of 2100 calories would be bulking for me, but if I stuck to it eventually I would get strong enough that that would become a deficit for me.

    Is this correct? Is it still advisable to use this relatively high carb diet if I can't do the 10k jogs? I barely have time to go to gym 3x/week so I can't do the cardio to use up the carbs on non-training days.
    The allpro diet is the min required to perform. If you really know what you are doing, you can drop the fats down to 40-50grams, but you have to have the perfect fat blend, which is beyond the scope of this thread. But yes it amounts to 2100 cals till 2100 cals cant sustain your body weight. This normally happens around 13%.

    Trying to get to relaxed abs without cardio and without a very good background in nutrition is going to be challenging. It requires a stable diet, weigh everything, and monthly food logs. You dont need to go fancy with carb cycling ect, but you must have a stable diet so you can adjust it every 2 weeks.
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  7. #2017
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Znarff View Post
    Today is supposed to be my light day for Week 4 (11 reps) but I have a muscle sprain on my middle back from sitting too much watching the damn DNC all day for almost 4 days straight. Next week is my week 5 (12 reps) and test day is on Tuesday. I completed all my reps this week and I feel like I can pass 12 reps but I'm a little concerned I'll lose my progress if I skip light day today. Any advice?
    You can skip 2 light days a cycle and still be fine. They are mini deloads and are not for gains. Light day is for reenforcing motor patterns and practice.
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  8. #2018
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You can skip 2 light days a cycle and still be fine. They are mini deloads and are not for gains. Light day is for reenforcing motor patterns and practice.
    Oh good to hear. So the most important lift is medium day, correct? It was hard but I didn't fail any reps this week for that. Thank you again, night!
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  9. #2019
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    I really miss this fun and enjoyable routine
    thinking about doing it again and stop SL.
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  10. #2020
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    Originally Posted by Znarff View Post
    Oh good to hear. So the most important lift is medium day, correct? It was hard but I didn't fail any reps this week for that. Thank you again, night!
    Ya once you are in the groove medium day should require the most effort.
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  11. #2021
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The allpro diet is the min required to perform. If you really know what you are doing, you can drop the fats down to 40-50grams, but you have to have the perfect fat blend, which is beyond the scope of this thread. But yes it amounts to 2100 cals till 2100 cals cant sustain your body weight. This normally happens around 13%.

    Trying to get to relaxed abs without cardio and without a very good background in nutrition is going to be challenging. It requires a stable diet, weigh everything, and monthly food logs. You dont need to go fancy with carb cycling ect, but you must have a stable diet so you can adjust it every 2 weeks.
    OK got it, cheers mate, good advice as always.
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  12. #2022
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    I'm doing this on a cut, and I'm throwing in some cardio and ab work on rest days. Do you have any recommendations on ab exercises selection and programming? Today I randomly did a few exercises that I know are for abs, it doesn't really feel right. Have in mind that I don't care about abs that much, I know they're hard to get as a beginner and don't want to worry about water retention and the other stuff that's important for abs.

    Also, can you do the routine every other day (skipping the two consecutive rest days part)? I'm currently using the rest days for cardio (not all of them!) but, once I go on a bulk, would it be unwise to skip that one day of rest?

    Finally, can I (and at what point) add a glutes isolation exercise? I want bigger glutes! I know squats and SLD's should target them, but I'm not sure I'm activating them enough in those exercises.
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  13. #2023
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by createordont View Post
    I'm doing this on a cut, and I'm throwing in some cardio and ab work on rest days. Do you have any recommendations on ab exercises selection and programming? Today I randomly did a few exercises that I know are for abs, it doesn't really feel right. Have in mind that I don't care about abs that much, I know they're hard to get as a beginner and don't want to worry about water retention and the other stuff that's important for abs.

    Also, can you do the routine every other day (skipping the two consecutive rest days part)? I'm currently using the rest days for cardio (not all of them!) but, once I go on a bulk, would it be unwise to skip that one day of rest?

    Finally, can I (and at what point) add a glutes isolation exercise? I want bigger glutes! I know squats and SLD's should target them, but I'm not sure I'm activating them enough in those exercises.

    For my "cant cheat" list:
    Ab wheel roll outs
    Hanging leg raises
    high foot farmer walks/carries
    And recently landmine 180's

    Part of the program requirements is 72 hours rest before any heavy day, so you cant not run the program every 48 hours.

    After you pass 2 test days you can add a glute/ham raise at the end of the workout if your glutes are not responding to the program. You may find they are growing at max capacity with just the regular program.
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  14. #2024
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    hi nightanole

    I just "completed" C1-W3-D1 and it was extremely tough. I was able to barely finished most of the sets and failed set 2 of OHP (failed at rep 8). bummed out to say the least.

    here are my #'s:
    Squay - 155
    Bench - 115 (barley got the last one up)
    BOR - 105
    OHP - 65 (missed at S2 rep 8)
    SLDL - 95
    CURL - 60 (barley got the last one up)
    CALF - 185

    I'm 5'10" 165 and I estimate that my bf% is approx 18. my diet is 120g protein, 85 fat, and 170 carbs. ~1900 calories. bc of family and kids, weekends are a a free for all, but I try to avoid excess sugar (deserts, sugary drinks). haven't dropped any weight at all in 2-3 of eating 1900 calories.

    a few questions are:

    1. is my diet in any way too restrictive and causing me to fail?

    2. or was I just too aggressive in selecting weights that were too high?

    3. if so, should I reset now (go back to week 1) and lower the weights or just lower the weights now and ride the cycle
    out?

    thanks for all your help and I appreciate any advice.
    Last edited by teabone13; 08-01-2016 at 02:26 PM. Reason: typo
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  15. #2025
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by teabone13 View Post
    hi nightanole

    I just "completed" C1-W3-D1 and it was extremely tough. I was able to barely finished most of the sets and failed set 2 of OHP (failed at rep 8). bummed out to say the least.

    here are my #'s:
    Squay - 155
    Bench - 115 (barley got the last one up)
    BOR - 105
    OHP - 65 (missed at S2 rep 8)
    SLDL - 95
    CURL - 60 (barley got the last one up)
    CALF - 185

    I'm 5'10" 165 and I estimate that my bf% is approx 18. my diet is 120g protein, 85 fat, and 170 carbs. ~1900 calories. bc of family and kids, weekends are a a free for all, but I try to avoid excess sugar (deserts, sugary drinks). haven't dropped any weight at all in 2-3 of eating 1900 calories.

    a few questions are:

    1. is my diet in any way too restrictive and causing me to fail?

    2. or was I just too aggressive in selecting weights that were too high?

    3. if so, should I reset now (go back to week 1) and lower the weights or just lower the weights now and ride the cycle
    out?

    thanks for all your help and I appreciate any advice.
    1) standard starter diet i recommend is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs, you are not that far off.
    2) Id cut things back 5% C1-W3-D1 is the first week of doing 2 sets of 10, and you had about 3 weeks of training and could do 1 set of 10 then. So odds are you started too high. You can always bump more than 10% at the end of the cycle if you feel it was an easy pass. Some people can double their squat in 3 cycles just from practice for example.
    3) If you have no problems with medium day this week, just cut back the weight 5%. If you cant get through medium day, cut back 10% and make medium your new heavy weight. This is a fatigue buildup routine, missed reps take away way too much recovery and it will bury you.
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  16. #2026
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    1) standard starter diet i recommend is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs, you are not that far off.
    2) Id cut things back 5% C1-W3-D1 is the first week of doing 2 sets of 10, and you had about 3 weeks of training and could do 1 set of 10 then. So odds are you started too high. You can always bump more than 10% at the end of the cycle if you feel it was an easy pass. Some people can double their squat in 3 cycles just from practice for example.
    3) If you have no problems with medium day this week, just cut back the weight 5%. If you cant get through medium day, cut back 10% and make medium your new heavy weight. This is a fatigue buildup routine, missed reps take away way too much recovery and it will bury you.
    thank you for your recommendations.

    i will try it out this week and see where it takes me! lol shame on me for underestimating this program even AFTER i read hundreds of posts.
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    nightanole,

    one more question regarding the warm-up sets

    if my "limit" is 60-80 lbs, it means my warmup sets would be less than the bar itself. can I skip the warm-up sets or should I just use the bar?

    I'm afraid at my "max weight level" it might be too much to do warm-ups with the weights being close to my "10 rep max", but I'll do what I have to do....
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    in short, I don't want to cheat or overdo the program (if that makes sense)
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  19. #2029
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 5penn View Post
    nightanole,

    one more question regarding the warm-up sets

    if my "limit" is 60-80 lbs, it means my warmup sets would be less than the bar itself. can I skip the warm-up sets or should I just use the bar?

    I'm afraid at my "max weight level" it might be too much to do warm-ups with the weights being close to my "10 rep max", but I'll do what I have to do....
    I recommend doing a ROM warmup with a broom handle or plastic pipe, after that you can use dumb bells or if its around 75% of your working weight, yea you can just get into the sets. At the lower weights its not going to matter much since you are not going against tissue limits. Once you are working with half body weight etc its needed to prime the CNS and make sure all the fluids are where they should be. You do not want to put the most tension ever felt for the day, on a cold tendon, with a fascia that has curled up over night.
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  20. #2030
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    thanks again
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    Hey there !

    I have a question regarding the diet. I was wondering, is it worth starting a light bulk for a beginner (C1W2) ? When i said light bulk I mean +10% calories from TDEE.
    I'm afraid of just gaining fat and not really fueling the muscle growth since i'm not really working with heavy weights at the moment...
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  22. #2032
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonyTuck View Post
    Hey there !

    I have a question regarding the diet. I was wondering, is it worth starting a light bulk for a beginner (C1W2) ? When i said light bulk I mean +10% calories from TDEE.
    I'm afraid of just gaining fat and not really fueling the muscle growth since i'm not really working with heavy weights at the moment...
    Its recommended to start the program on a cut till things get hard. Normally this is around 13% (flexed abs but smooth when relaxed). For most this happens within 2 cycles if you are losing 1% bw per week or a little less.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Its recommended to start the program on a cut till things get hard. Normally this is around 13% (flexed abs but smooth when relaxed). For most this happens within 2 cycles if you are losing 1% bw per week or a little less.
    Ok thanks i'll do that.
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  24. #2034
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    Thanks for answering all of my questions!

    I have another one, I hope it will be clear what I'm asking:
    If it's not possible to do the program at the exact same time on each workout day, which of the three workouts could do with a shorter/longer rest before it?
    For example, if I do my workouts at 3 pm and I only have time in the morning and in the evening on a specific medium day, would it be better to do it in the morning (making the rest before medium shorter and the rest before light longer) or in the evening (making the rest before medium longer and the rest before light shorter)? Or does it not matter much as long as I get two nights of sleep before easy/medium and three nights of sleep before hard?
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    Originally Posted by createordont View Post
    Thanks for answering all of my questions!

    I have another one, I hope it will be clear what I'm asking:
    If it's not possible to do the program at the exact same time on each workout day, which of the three workouts could do with a shorter/longer rest before it?
    For example, if I do my workouts at 3 pm and I only have time in the morning and in the evening on a specific medium day, would it be better to do it in the morning (making the rest before medium shorter and the rest before light longer) or in the evening (making the rest before medium longer and the rest before light shorter)? Or does it not matter much as long as I get two nights of sleep before easy/medium and three nights of sleep before hard?
    The only rule is 72 hours rest before any heavy day. The rest is up to you, some are full of energy in the morning and burnt out at night. For me id have to remove at least 5% of the weight or 1-2 reps if i worked out in the morning, i just suck then. I have no problem working out after a hard day though, i almost look forward to it.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The only rule is 72 hours rest before any heavy day. The rest is up to you, some are full of energy in the morning and burnt out at night. For me id have to remove at least 5% of the weight or 1-2 reps if i worked out in the morning, i just suck then. I have no problem working out after a hard day though, i almost look forward to it.
    Great, thanks! I'm similar, working out feels better after a day of mentally heavy work.
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    Smile Good dude

    Thanks for the program
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    Yes I just wanted to say.. thank you nightanole, for your time and your patience to answer our questions

    You play a big role in my motivation to work out and to keep going, and I'm sure it's true for a lot of other newbies here!

    Thanks again
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    Hey since I am only curling 50lbs right now, what can I get by with for my warm up sets? My working weight is so low that I'm doing two sets of 45lbs then two sets of 50lbs. Do I even need to do those warm up sets? I think doing those sets are hurting me more than helping me.
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    Originally Posted by CarlWheezer View Post
    Hey since I am only curling 50lbs right now, what can I get by with for my warm up sets? My working weight is so low that I'm doing two sets of 45lbs then two sets of 50lbs. Do I even need to do those warm up sets? I think doing those sets are hurting me more than helping me.
    Carl, check post # 2029. nightanole's reply to my question....
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