AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[bavinck]

Alright. I'll be that guy and drag it into the locker room to weight it lol

[noiseguy]

Posting for posterity. I modified the program based on running it over 2 occasions, the second time I made adjustments and had an easier time progressing. Basically changed what the week looks like, and which lifts are done H, M, L on days 1-3, or skipped (X). Everything else is same, test days are now on Day 1 and 3 since those are the new heavy days. Heavy main lifts run first, so on Day 3 order would be OHP, SLDL, BP, Squat, Row, Curls, Calf... on test day I'd move curls in front of BP...

Squats: H, M, X
Bench Presses: H, M, L
Bent-Over Rows: H, M, L
Overhead Barbell Presses: L, M, H
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: X, M, H
Barbell Curls: L, M, H
Calf Raises: H, M, L

With program as written I found Day 1 was too taxing, esp with OHP. Also found doing squats and SLDL heavy on same day was breaking my form on the latter; I went as far as also eliminating Light day for both due to minor knee issues. I did this mostly to help with OHP progression and reduce knee-impacting lifts (Squat, SLDL), but was surprised by how much easier Bench was to progress as well, and set a PR with it (which this program isn't really intended to do.)

[nightanole]

Posting for posterity. I modified the program based on running it over 2 occasions, the second time I made adjustments and had an easier time progressing. Basically changed what the week looks like, and which lifts are done H, M, L on days 1-3, or skipped (X). Everything else is same, test days are now on Day 1 and 3 since those are the new heavy days. Heavy main lifts run first, so on Day 3 order would be OHP, SLDL, BP, Squat, Row, Curls, Calf... on test day I'd move curls in front of BP...

Squats: H, M, X
Bench Presses: H, M, L
Bent-Over Rows: H, M, L
Overhead Barbell Presses: L, M, H
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: X, M, H
Barbell Curls: L, M, H
Calf Raises: H, M, L

With program as written I found Day 1 was too taxing, esp with OHP. Also found doing squats and SLDL heavy on same day was breaking my form on the latter; I went as far as also eliminating Light day for both due to minor knee issues. I did this mostly to help with OHP progression and reduce knee-impacting lifts (Squat, SLDL), but was surprised by how much easier Bench was to progress as well, and set a PR with it (which this program isn't really intended to do.)

You basically equalized volume so you could lift heavier...

Go for it as long as this "trick" doesnt just game the system for 2 cycles and then you stall. Its not much different vs the programs that have straight weight all week and only weekly weight bumps. Just keep in mind you have rewritten the pattern so its no longer fatigue based, but instead dual factor based.

Intermediate is more H L M due to how much more an intermediate lifter can push themselves.

[noiseguy]

You basically equalized volume so you could lift heavier...

Go for it as long as this "trick" doesnt just game the system for 2 cycles and then you stall. Its not much different vs the programs that have straight weight all week and only weekly weight bumps. Just keep in mind you have rewritten the pattern so its no longer fatigue based, but instead dual factor based.

Intermediate is more H L M due to how much more an intermediate lifter can push themselves.

That was my thought as well, that I was just spreading the volume over the week. Medium day was actually the hardest to complete. It brought home realization that totally unrelated lifts actually impacted each other... gassing out on Squats had a measurable impact on making Bench reps, two lifts that technically use almost no common muscles.

The first time I ran AP was for about 6-7 cycles, and I stalled almost immediately on OHP, then on Bench later. This time, ran another ~6-7 cycles and never stalled... just got busy and couldn't get the 3 days/week in so stopped the program. With this modification you really need all 3 days.

[ahmedhappy312]

Hello Night,

Since a fair while back you advised me that I should switch to GSLP since last December, I wasn't able to follow the progression very accurately but that only meant that I will deload faster than usual, Since last April I started Keto diet and it all went bad from there although I was expecting to be fatigue and gas out a lot while starting keto, but since then I have been doing several resets and basically stalled at the following number for a long time now:

Workout A:

Bench Press---------55Kgs
Kroc Rows-----------26Kgs
Squat----------------65Kgs
BC--------------------12Kgs
Farmer---------------22Kgs

Workout B:

Arnold Press-----------14Kgs
BOR--------------------60Kgs
SLDL-------------------75Kgs
Skull--------------------10Kgs
Landmine---------------50Kgs

The main issue now is that I feel fatigued every workout, and I can't increase my reps and if I ignored the rule of last AMRAP set and increased my weight by 5KG(on bar) and 2Kgs (on DB) as I don't have other weight sets at my gym I can't go beyond 5 reps, so I reset every 2 weeks or so.

I am now confuesd and don't know where I can go from there, should I continue to pursue micro-weights as suggested by you before which is also diffcult to obtain from hardware stores in my country, or maybe switch to another routine like 5/3/1? What are your thoughts?

by the way I am now still on a cut in Keto and my weight is 74KGs (dropped 7 KGs since started Keto) and I am 176cm tall

[nightanole]

Hello Night,

Since a fair while back you advised me that I should switch to GSLP since last December, I wasn't able to follow the progression very accurately but that only meant that I will deload faster than usual, Since last April I started Keto diet and it all went bad from there although I was expecting to be fatigue and gas out a lot while starting keto, but since then I have been doing several resets and basically stalled at the following number for a long time now:

Workout A:

Bench Press---------55Kgs
Kroc Rows-----------26Kgs
Squat----------------65Kgs
BC--------------------12Kgs
Farmer---------------22Kgs

Workout B:

Arnold Press-----------14Kgs
BOR--------------------60Kgs
SLDL-------------------75Kgs
Skull--------------------10Kgs
Landmine---------------50Kgs

The main issue now is that I feel fatigued every workout, and I can't increase my reps and if I ignored the rule of last AMRAP set and increased my weight by 5KG(on bar) and 2Kgs (on DB) as I don't have other weight sets at my gym I can't go beyond 5 reps, so I reset every 2 weeks or so.

I am now confuesd and don't know where I can go from there, should I continue to pursue micro-weights as suggested by you before which is also diffcult to obtain from hardware stores in my country, or maybe switch to another routine like 5/3/1? What are your thoughts?

by the way I am now still on a cut in Keto and my weight is 74KGs (dropped 7 KGs since started Keto) and I am 176cm tall

You are on in my opinion an unsustainable long term diet. However you are not regressing in lifts. And you are increasing your power to weight ratio. If this 2 week pattern works for you i would continue it. Once the dieting is done you can introduce carbs again, and continue increasing working weight and body weight again.

[ahmedhappy312]

You are on in my opinion an unsustainable long term diet. However you are not regressing in lifts. And you are increasing your power to weight ratio. If this 2 week pattern works for you i would continue it. Once the dieting is done you can introduce carbs again, and continue increasing working weight and body weight again.

So I understood that my main issue is currently being on Keto, but I have been there for only 4 and a half months although I must admit it is hindering my lifts very often now but I am not in peace of introducing carbs just yet, feeling like I need to lose more fat from midsection.

reason I am asking about 5/3/1 is that I feel bored from what I am doing now day in day out so I would like to try make things exciting again.

could you suggest how to incorporate my current routine with 5/3/1 protocol? and if I need to have new exercises like lat pulldowns (I never did them and I wish for a more width now rather than thickness)

[nightanole]

So I understood that my main issue is currently being on Keto, but I have been there for only 4 and a half months although I must admit it is hindering my lifts very often now but I am not in peace of introducing carbs just yet, feeling like I need to lose more fat from midsection.

reason I am asking about 5/3/1 is that I feel bored from what I am doing now day in day out so I would like to try make things exciting again.

could you suggest how to incorporate my current routine with 5/3/1 protocol? and if I need to have new exercises like lat pulldowns (I never did them and I wish for a more width now rather than thickness)

There are several other patterns to chose from. Though at its core, GSLP is only 4 lifts, so i dont see how those other 4+ lifts couldnt be used for "variety". Only the core lifts need to be GSLP style.

But any way the most popular 5/3/1 pattern is BBB, doing the BBB lift on non 5/3/1 days.

Monday 5/3/1 bench and BBB squat
weds 5/3/1 squat and BBB bench
etc

Other than BBB it gets Very complex because it can be used as an advanced routine, and advanced routines are way outside asking internet folk. You basically need a "internet video coach" at $100 a month that will look at your form and make adjustments etc.


But if you would like to try a fixed weight pattern, you do have my 10 sets of 3 pattern. Its just set of 3 with 30 seconds of rest, till you get a slow rep. If you get in all 10 sets you need to add 5-10% next session in order to knock the sets down to 5-6. This pattern could also be used for set of 5 for "arms" (so 50 reps goal).

[ahmedhappy312]

There are several other patterns to chose from. Though at its core, GSLP is only 4 lifts, so i dont see how those other 4+ lifts couldnt be used for "variety". Only the core lifts need to be GSLP style.

But any way the most popular 5/3/1 pattern is BBB, doing the BBB lift on non 5/3/1 days.

Monday 5/3/1 bench and BBB squat
weds 5/3/1 squat and BBB bench
etc

Other than BBB it gets Very complex because it can be used as an advanced routine, and advanced routines are way outside asking internet folk. You basically need a "internet video coach" at $100 a month that will look at your form and make adjustments etc.


But if you would like to try a fixed weight pattern, you do have my 10 sets of 3 pattern. Its just set of 3 with 30 seconds of rest, till you get a slow rep. If you get in all 10 sets you need to add 5-10% next session in order to knock the sets down to 5-6. This pattern could also be used for set of 5 for "arms" (so 50 reps goal).

I guess i still need to read more on 5/3/1 maybe I check Reddit

Could you elaborate more on your fixed weight pattern because I think it is not similar to what I used to do doing Allpro?

[nightanole]

I guess i still need to read more on 5/3/1 maybe I check Reddit

Could you elaborate more on your fixed weight pattern because I think it is not similar to what I used to do doing Allpro?

Not similar at all.

3 rep sets and 30 second rests
You do sets till you get a sloooow rep, then you stop for the session
If you get 10 sets (30 reps total) without a slow rep, then next session you add 5-10% more weight, with a goal of getting a slow rep around set 5-6.
Then you work your way up again.

This is a very intense pattern. You are talking 30 reps at around 80-85% of 1rm with less than 5 minutes of rest.

[ahmedhappy312]

Not similar at all.

3 rep sets and 30 second rests
You do sets till you get a sloooow rep, then you stop for the session
If you get 10 sets (30 reps total) without a slow rep, then next session you add 5-10% more weight, with a goal of getting a slow rep around set 5-6.
Then you work your way up again.

This is a very intense pattern. You are talking 30 reps at around 80-85% of 1rm with less than 5 minutes of rest.

Could you guide me to list of exercises or a program that I can follow using this pattern?

[nightanole]

Could you guide me to list of exercises or a program that I can follow using this pattern?

Pattern works on any exercise you do 2-3 times a week. You could combine that pattern with 5/3/1 and gslp. So you could have 10x3 for bench, 5/3/1 for squats, and GSLP for OHP for example. As long as you only change patterns every 90 days or more, you can "switch it up" as much as you want. But you want to stick to a pattern for 90 days just so you can apply progressive over load vs trying to switch a pattern every month and waste your time adapting.

As for a "core" program:

a push in from 1 angle
a push from a different angle
a pull from one angle
a pull from a different angle
a full knee flexion lift (such as a squat)
a full hip hinge lift (such as a deadlift)

Do the above 2-3x a week based on recovery.
Add and remove accessories as needed.

The above would be a life time program, and you can use 5/3/1 10x3 and GSLP patterns for life. The only thing that will change is you will slowly need more accessories as you get stronger, since the patterns have a fixed volume.

[ahmedhappy312]

Pattern works on any exercise you do 2-3 times a week. You could combine that pattern with 5/3/1 and gslp. So you could have 10x3 for bench, 5/3/1 for squats, and GSLP for OHP for example. As long as you only change patterns every 90 days or more, you can "switch it up" as much as you want. But you want to stick to a pattern for 90 days just so you can apply progressive over load vs trying to switch a pattern every month and waste your time adapting.

As for a "core" program:

a push in from 1 angle
a push from a different angle
a pull from one angle
a pull from a different angle
a full knee flexion lift (such as a squat)
a full hip hinge lift (such as a deadlift)

Do the above 2-3x a week based on recovery.
Add and remove accessories as needed.

The above would be a life time program, and you can use 5/3/1 10x3 and GSLP patterns for life. The only thing that will change is you will slowly need more accessories as you get stronger, since the patterns have a fixed volume.

Could you give me more examples on the lifts?

if I use 3 patterns I will sure complicate things, is there an easy and simple way to approach this? also what should be my starting weights

[nightanole]

Could you give me more examples on the lifts?

if I use 3 patterns I will sure complicate things, is there an easy and simple way to approach this? also what should be my starting weights

No i am not writing you a program. OHP and flat bench are 2 different angles. decline and incline bench are 2 different angles. bent over row and chinups are 2 different angles. A squat is a squat, doesnt matter if its low bar, high bar, front, its still a full bent knee. Deadlifts are deadlifts, SLDL, traditional, sumo, hexbar.

You can use the same pattern for all core lifts, doesnt matter if its 5/3/1 or GSLP or 10x3. Or you could mix it up if you notice you do better squatting on GSLP or can progress on bench faster on 5/3/1. And like i said you can rotate the patterns, spring can be 5/3/1 and fall can be 10x3.

Starting weights will always be your 10 rep max. The patterns will naturally sync in about 2 weeks to that rep range. You will start triggering deloads once you reach your 5 rep max on all patterns.

[bavinck]

So I am really sick today and I very much doubt I will get to the gym tomorrow. If I skip heavy this week should I do heavy on Wed instead and then medium on Friday?

[ahmedhappy312]

No i am not writing you a program. OHP and flat bench are 2 different angles. decline and incline bench are 2 different angles. bent over row and chinups are 2 different angles. A squat is a squat, doesnt matter if its low bar, high bar, front, its still a full bent knee. Deadlifts are deadlifts, SLDL, traditional, sumo, hexbar.

You can use the same pattern for all core lifts, doesnt matter if its 5/3/1 or GSLP or 10x3. Or you could mix it up if you notice you do better squatting on GSLP or can progress on bench faster on 5/3/1. And like i said you can rotate the patterns, spring can be 5/3/1 and fall can be 10x3.

Starting weights will always be your 10 rep max. The patterns will naturally sync in about 2 weeks to that rep range. You will start triggering deloads once you reach your 5 rep max on all patterns.

you basically guided me to the program I am doing now, but anyway thanks for taking the time to reply, it is a free forum after all.

I will try to get hold of Beyond 5/3/1 as it has a lot of variations I can choose from

[nightanole]

So I am really sick today and I very much doubt I will get to the gym tomorrow. If I skip heavy this week should I do heavy on Wed instead and then medium on Friday?

Gotta at least do 1 heavy a week, and that heavy needs to be done at least 72 hours before next weeks heavy. After that its up to you to try to sqeeze in a medium if its not within the 72 hour window of next weeks heavy.

[bavinck]

Not sure I follow. If I do heavy this Wed and then heavy again next Monday, should I do a med or light this Friday?

[GoldenDogs]

I just finished my second cycle of this routine. Passed everything first time and everything except OHP and curls this time.

I've gained about 10 pounds over that time (it's stalled lately however) but don't see any noticeable muscle gains.

Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

Should I go for another cycle or switch things up? I just wanna get big.

[nightanole]

Not sure I follow. If I do heavy this Wed and then heavy again next Monday, should I do a med or light this Friday?

If you can get in a med friday go for it. Then just skip light. But you can do light on sat/sun since that is the 72 hours before a heavy window.

[nightanole]

I just finished my second cycle of this routine. Passed everything first time and everything except OHP and curls this time.

I've gained about 10 pounds over that time (it's stalled lately however) but don't see any noticeable muscle gains.

Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

Should I go for another cycle or switch things up? I just wanna get big.

Id say you are getting pretty fat. Gods gift to lifting can put on 18lbs of muscle in 18 months. You gaining 10lbs in 2 months with beginner weights is odds are 5-7lbs of fat.

Plus since you cant "see" changes, that means you are not even close to the recommended 13% bf before starting a bulk.

As for "seeing" humans get thicker not wider, so i would take a lot of side shots, they are a better judge vs front/back. front/back is more for body fat changes.

[GoldenDogs]

Id say you are getting pretty fat. Gods gift to lifting can put on 18lbs of muscle in 18 months. You gaining 10lbs in 2 months with beginner weights is odds are 5-7lbs of fat.

Plus since you cant "see" changes, that means you are not even close to the recommended 13% bf before starting a bulk.

As for "seeing" humans get thicker not wider, so i would take a lot of side shots, they are a better judge vs front/back. front/back is more for body fat changes.

I thought for a beginner about a pound a week was possible. Also my scale says I went from 11.6% to 13.4% body fat (ik not always accurate)

But do you think I should stick with this workout just eat less? I thought as a skinny guy the way to get noticeable gains was to eat 500 cal+ and workout

[nightanole]

I thought for a beginner about a pound a week was possible. Also my scale says I went from 11.6% to 13.4% body fat (ik not always accurate)

But do you think I should stick with this workout just eat less? I thought as a skinny guy the way to get noticeable gains was to eat 500 cal+ and workout

Human muscle is 900 cals and about 120 grams of protein.

Again, the best of us can gain about a 1 pound per month.

On this program i recommend people be going up or down 1kg per month.

Post your stats and we can dig deeper as im not going to assume too much. But lets be honest, how much muscle is squatting 100lbs 100 reps going to make?

[mzimm15]

I've been doing the AP program for about 8 cycles now and I do like the routine. Just wanted to ask a what if question - Can you just do another medium day rather than the light day or is there a benefit to just stick to the light load day as written? I haven't changed up anything else in the program other than just wanting to replace the light day with a medium day.

[nightanole]

I've been doing the AP program for about 8 cycles now and I do like the routine. Just wanted to ask a what if question - Can you just do another medium day rather than the light day or is there a benefit to just stick to the light load day as written? I haven't changed up anything else in the program other than just wanting to replace the light day with a medium day.

You would be better off with just more accessories on light day, vs another medium. Light day is a mini deload, without it you may end up with a repeat bout injury since you are doing the same lift 3x a week.

[mzimm15]

You would be better off with just more accessories on light day, vs another medium. Light day is a mini deload, without it you may end up with a repeat bout injury since you are doing the same lift 3x a week.

Thanks that is helpful.

My reasoning for adding another medium day is because at 8 cycles some of my lifts are stalling (squat, op, bench).

I'm about 170 lb 5'10" BF=16-17%. I'm eating about 2800 calories per day.

My loads aren't huge because I started fairly light.

Heavy Day
Squat-190 lb
Bench - 145 lb
BOR - 145 lb
OP - 100 lb
SLDL - 190 lb
UR- 65 lb
Calf - 175 lb
EZ Bar Curl 75 lb

Every other day I also do weighted chins and every day I do 25-30 diamond pushups (neither until failure).

Any input would be appreciated.

[GenerationZero]

So going from this thread https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1585531521

And your reply

"For extended time off i would start start the next cycle as an extended cycle, and add 1-2 weeks at the beginning that is 1-2 reps below your normal starting rep range."

I'll be back on this on Monday.... By Monday I would have walked almost 5-6 miles everyday except 2/3 days of 2-3 miles fur the last 14 days. My calories has been all over the place but I know I've met my protein goal and consuming calories above maintenance is definite.

So on Monday, I'll go back to 1700 calories, but from your comment above are you suggesting to use the same weight as advised on the link above but instead have 2 reps for squats and 6 reps for others for 2 weeks before getting ready to start what i was doing almost 3 weeks ago? Does this sound correct? Also I'll continue with 8-10 reps for warm up sets.....??

[nightanole]

Thanks that is helpful.

My reasoning for adding another medium day is because at 8 cycles some of my lifts are stalling (squat, op, bench).

I'm about 170 lb 5'10" BF=16-17%. I'm eating about 2800 calories per day.

My loads aren't huge because I started fairly light.

Heavy Day
Squat-190 lb
Bench - 145 lb
BOR - 145 lb
OP - 100 lb
SLDL - 190 lb
UR- 65 lb
Calf - 175 lb
EZ Bar Curl 75 lb

Every other day I also do weighted chins and every day I do 25-30 diamond pushups (neither until failure).

Any input would be appreciated.

You are at the correct weight to graduate from allpro. But you still have 3 mile stones to go.

bench 170lbs for 10
Squat 225-235 for 10
Be 170lbs at 13% bf

Since you have experience under your belt, how about we do some heavy reps for accessories? At the end of each session for bench/squat/row, do 3 reps. These 3 reps can be one of 2 styles. They can be a 3 rep max, so odds are 115% of heavy day. Or they can be 3 singles with 30-60 seconds of rest, using around 125% of your heavy day. For OHP you can also try deep push presses using your light day bench weight, for a few reps.

[nightanole]

So going from this thread https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1585531521

And your reply

"For extended time off i would start start the next cycle as an extended cycle, and add 1-2 weeks at the beginning that is 1-2 reps below your normal starting rep range."

I'll be back on this on Monday.... By Monday I would have walked almost 5-6 miles everyday except 2/3 days of 2-3 miles fur the last 14 days. My calories has been all over the place but I know I've met my protein goal and consuming calories above maintenance is definite.

So on Monday, I'll go back to 1700 calories, but from your comment above are you suggesting to use the same weight as advised on the link above but instead have 2 reps for squats and 6 reps for others for 2 weeks before getting ready to start what i was doing almost 3 weeks ago? Does this sound correct? Also I'll continue with 8-10 reps for warm up sets.....??

warmup can remain the same.

squats:
week 1 2 reps
week 2 3 reps
week 3 4 reps (offical start of allpro cycle)
week 4 5 reps
week 5 6 reps
week 6 7 reps
week 7 8 reps

And the rest of the lifts would be the 8-12 rep pattern
week 1 6 reps
week 2 7 reps
week 3 8 reps (start of offical allpro cycle)
etc

[mzimm15]

You are at the correct weight to graduate from allpro. But you still have 3 mile stones to go.

bench 170lbs for 10
Squat 225-235 for 10
Be 170lbs at 13% bf

Since you have experience under your belt, how about we do some heavy reps for accessories? At the end of each session for bench/squat/row, do 3 reps. These 3 reps can be one of 2 styles. They can be a 3 rep max, so odds are 115% of heavy day. Or they can be 3 singles with 30-60 seconds of rest, using around 125% of your heavy day. For OHP you can also try deep push presses using your light day bench weight, for a few reps.

I really appreciate you help!

When I ask any personal trainers in my area I get a blank look when I relate my questions to the AP routine. They seem to only offer the "whatever feels good to you" as an answer.

Once I reach the mile stones you mentioned, where do you suggest I go from there? I love the exercises and format of AP but don't want to limit my potential by just staying on AP.