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  1. #7771
    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You are on a cut, so unless you fail a test day twice in a row i wouldnt worry about it. Again if you pass every 3rd try you are still progressing at twice the rate of the average intermediate lifter.

    As with the other guy, as long as you are getting in all the reps for week 3 you are still cutting correctly.
    Ok so if on Friday I do, lets say 8 reps (where last week i did 11) this is ok and Monday i start again from 8. Do i continue with the additional 3 heavy reps? Thanks again
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  2. #7772
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Ok so if on Friday I do, lets say 8 reps (where last week i did 11) this is ok and Monday i start again from 8. Do i continue with the additional 3 heavy reps? Thanks again
    If you are trying to lose weight, the 3 heavy reps are optional. They shouldnt hinder the main program even on a cut, but they are not magic and going to allow to you pass test days on a cut either.

    And yes with all the fatigue build up, you will drop reps, but next week "all" volume will be reduced so 8 reps will be a lot easier vs 8 reps on test week.
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  3. #7773
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    I’ve been working out intermittently for years. All Pro has been a great standby for me.

    On this round, I’ve been working out for about six weeks and taking it seriously. But now I’m ready for a mini break From the natural tiredness fatigue soreness tendon issues that sort of thing.

    I read somewhere in this thread that I can work out at like 50 to 60% of the amount of weight I’ve been doing, as a way to maintain muscle without doing the full work out. Is that correct?

    If so...what is the protocol?

    60%: For example, due to injuries, I am currently goblet-squatting 35 pounds. 60% of this is 21 pounds. However we don’t have fractional weights at my gym. So I would plan on squatting 20 pounds.

    1. Would I need to bother with the initial practice-the-motion 5 pound squats?

    2. Should I perform a warm-up set at 50% ?

    3. How many reps for l working sets? I.e., do 12 reps, or keep going until form breaks down? Could be 20 or 30 reps.

    3. Do 2 working sets?

    4. Three workouts per week?

    5. Lower the percentage by 10% each day as the week progresses?

    5. After a week or two, when I go back to my regular routine, do I pick up where I left off? i.e. squat working sets of 35 #’s.

    Thanks so much,
    Last edited by 27MinuteMiracle; 10-17-2019 at 05:00 AM.
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  4. #7774
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    I’ve been working out intermittently for years. All Pro has been a great standby for me.

    On this round, I’ve been working out for about six weeks and taking it seriously. But now I’m ready for a mini break From the natural tiredness fatigue soreness tendon issues that sort of thing.

    I read somewhere in this thread that I can work out at like 50 to 60% of the amount of weight I’ve been doing, as a way to maintain muscle without doing the full work out. Is that correct?

    If so...what is the protocol?

    60%: For example, due to injuries, I am currently goblet-squatting 35 pounds. 60% of this is 21 pounds. However we don’t have fractional weights at my gym. So I would plan on squatting 20 pounds.

    1. Would I need to bother with the initial practice-the-motion 5 pound squats?

    2. Should I perform a warm-up set at 50% ?

    3. How many reps for l working sets? I.e., do 12 reps, or keep going until form breaks down? Could be 20 or 30 reps.

    3. Do 2 working sets?

    4. Three workouts per week?

    5. Lower the percentage by 10% each day as the week progresses?

    5. After a week or two, when I go back to my regular routine, do I pick up where I left off? i.e. squat working sets of 35 #’s.

    Thanks so much,

    A general deload week would be 2-3 sets of 50%ish of your heavy day, with an unlimited rest time. You could do an unloaded warmup, or just do 3 sets instead of 2. Do this 3 times per week, dont adjust weights. 10 rep sets.

    This will prevent cns regression and above average DOMS when you get back to your normal program. This does not prevent muscle loss, however muscle loss takes months and months to lose even a pound. Your lifts and conditioning will turn to crap after a month, to the point your 5 rep max will pin you to the mat on the first rep, but you havent lost any muscle, just CNS, which comes back Really Quickly.
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  5. #7775
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    Hi the link here doesn't work can you please repost? I'd love to read the single most important thread

    Q3: Will I gain muscle mass on this routine?
    A:
    despite what you may think, gaining muscle mass is not just about lifting weights; the training is just a catalyst, which will create the conditions necessary for new musclee to be built. However, to actually build that muscle, you need to eat at a calorie surplus (consume more calories than you burn). There is no way around this, and you will not be able to avoid having to do some simple calculations if you want results. To understand this, visit this thread: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981 and make sure to read and understand the entire first post by Emma. If you have any questions regarding diet, ask them in that thread. This is possibly the single most important thread you can read over here - if you will only read on thread, let it be that one.
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  6. #7776
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by osmonix View Post
    Hi the link here doesn't work can you please repost? I'd love to read the single most important thread

    Q3: Will I gain muscle mass on this routine?
    A:
    despite what you may think, gaining muscle mass is not just about lifting weights; the training is just a catalyst, which will create the conditions necessary for new musclee to be built. However, to actually build that muscle, you need to eat at a calorie surplus (consume more calories than you burn). There is no way around this, and you will not be able to avoid having to do some simple calculations if you want results. To understand this, visit this thread: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981 and make sure to read and understand the entire first post by Emma. If you have any questions regarding diet, ask them in that thread. This is possibly the single most important thread you can read over here - if you will only read on thread, let it be that one.
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/attac...3&d=1372532130
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  7. #7777
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    Thank you !
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  8. #7778
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    Smile 30 days Chest Building workout program

    Monday

    1. Inclined rod - 5 set of 12, 10, 8, 8, 6 reps
    2. Inclined dumbbell press - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    3. Flat bench dumbbell press - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    4. Inclined fly - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    5. High to low cable fly - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    6. Parallel Dip - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps

    Friday

    1. Flat bench rod - 5 set of 12, 10, 8, 8, 6 reps
    2. Decline rod - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    3. Decline fly - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    4. Butter fly - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
    5. Machine chest press - 4 set of 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
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  9. #7779
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    So I researched to ensure proper form and came across an article stating squats should be "ass to the grass," i.e. thighs below parallel to the ground. With my 25% and 50% squats I can accomplish this, however at 100% I can only get to parallel.

    Question; is this a form cheat? If so should I lower my 100% until I can match form throughout all sets?
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  10. #7780
    Registered User sja317's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Nothing looks out of wack. BP and row are about equal, and OHP is at least 60% of BP.

    If you wanted a BP accessory, id do what i have the other guy doing, a few reps of very heavy bench press at the end of the workout.

    "do 3 reps. These 3 reps can be one of 2 styles. They can be a 3 rep max, so odds are 115% of heavy day. Or they can be 3 singles with 30-60 seconds of rest, using around 125% of your heavy day. For OHP you can also try deep push presses using your light day bench weight, for a few reps."
    Did this extra set of heavy bench for the last cycle and just passed test day with even one or two in the tank. Thanks for the help.
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  11. #7781
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinP72 View Post
    So I researched to ensure proper form and came across an article stating squats should be "ass to the grass," i.e. thighs below parallel to the ground. With my 25% and 50% squats I can accomplish this, however at 100% I can only get to parallel.

    Question; is this a form cheat? If so should I lower my 100% until I can match form throughout all sets?
    "full knee flexion". You can tune your depth by widening or narrowing your stance. Your goal is "just below parallel", any thing lower is all arse and wont help much for leg growth because it will require a lighter weight. We are not doing ATG squats that olympic lifters use. We are doing high bar power lifting squats. So power lifting rules apply. "hip crease is below top of quad", that is all we are after. So if you cant do that lower the weight till you can.

    You dont need this:



    You just need B to be below A:
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  12. #7782
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    No you do not drop the weight, you up the carbs and the cardio. And yes you do try for 11 and 12 rep sets. There is a chance you may make it to 11/12 reps on the first set, then odds are several reps below that on the second set.
    Thanks dude!

    Will see how it goes!
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  13. #7783
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    I just finished week 3 of cycle two and have a question. I'm going to be traveling with absolutely zero access to gyms for what is scheduled to be the week 5 end of this cycle, returning to normal lifting schedule the following week. Next week should I...
    *do 12 rep test week in what was originally going to be week 4? Bump weights and start cycle three after the unfortunate week off.
    *do 11 rep week as normal, travel week, re-start from some point within cycle two to re-build fatigue?
    *something else?

    For additional context, if there was no interruption and things went as normal, I'm confident I would be passing every lift this cycle. My original working weights + cycle1 bumps are still relatively light.

    Any input very much appreciated. Sorry to bother with a wack question, I'm just not familiar with fatigue-based training like this and want to do right by it. Thanks.
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  14. #7784
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by carsonm View Post
    I just finished week 3 of cycle two and have a question. I'm going to be traveling with absolutely zero access to gyms for what is scheduled to be the week 5 end of this cycle, returning to normal lifting schedule the following week. Next week should I...
    *do 12 rep test week in what was originally going to be week 4? Bump weights and start cycle three after the unfortunate week off.
    *do 11 rep week as normal, travel week, re-start from some point within cycle two to re-build fatigue?
    *something else?

    For additional context, if there was no interruption and things went as normal, I'm confident I would be passing every lift this cycle. My original working weights + cycle1 bumps are still relatively light.

    Any input very much appreciated. Sorry to bother with a wack question, I'm just not familiar with fatigue-based training like this and want to do right by it. Thanks.
    This is a fatigue based training style. If you take a week off, you strip away all fatigue, if you skip week 11 and just do a test day, you will not have built up enough fatigue, both will give a false positive.

    When you get back start over at week 2 (9 rep week), on medium and light days reduce rest time as much as possible. Best case is you will be able to bump 15%+ at the end of the cycle.
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  15. #7785
    Registered User carsonm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    This is a fatigue based training style. If you take a week off, you strip away all fatigue, if you skip week 11 and just do a test day, you will not have built up enough fatigue, both will give a false positive.

    When you get back start over at week 2 (9 rep week), on medium and light days reduce rest time as much as possible. Best case is you will be able to bump 15%+ at the end of the cycle.
    Thank you, I figured that would be the case but was hoping there might be a chance skipping one week to test day wouldn't be TOO egregious. Oh well, thanks for your help
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  16. #7786
    Registered User mzimm15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You have 2 choices:
    continue the cut to 13%, then slow bulk to bmi 24
    Slow bulk to 175-180lbs while maintaining 18%, and then cutting down to 13%, which should end up being bmi 24

    Both will take the same amount of time. In any case you should be moving up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You do not want to recomp(stay the same weight while reducing body fat) on allpro, it never works.
    Ok. For the slow bulk to BMI of 24 - is that as easy as looking at a BMI chart for my height and hitting the target weight? I'm 5'10 and most of charts say I will be around bmi 24 at 167 lbs or is there another method I should use to get this?

    I'm nearly at 15% BF and my weight is about 161 lbs

    Thank you
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  17. #7787
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mzimm15 View Post
    Ok. For the slow bulk to BMI of 24 - is that as easy as looking at a BMI chart for my height and hitting the target weight? I'm 5'10 and most of charts say I will be around bmi 24 at 167 lbs or is there another method I should use to get this?

    I'm nearly at 15% BF and my weight is about 161 lbs

    Thank you
    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lbm_calculator.htm

    167 sounds right, and 15% will put you several pounds off. So again you still only have 2 choices. Get to 12-13% and lean bulk up to bmi 24, or over shoot and lean bulk to bmi 25, and then do a mini cut.

    But keep in mind, a best case scenario is to bulk while not increasing body fat percentage. Normal case it goes up 1-2%, and worst case is you do it wrong and gain 1lb of muscle and 2lbs of fat ratio.

    But what will never happen is you going from bmi 23@15% to bmi 24@13% in one shot. Upward recomps never happen natty.
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  18. #7788
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    Hello nightanole,

    I have another question, I'm not that busy but busy working 2 jobs and noticed that I have just been doing the workouts 3x a week with the same weight and not doing light, medium and high weight sets. Is it ok to just use one weight for one whole cycle instead of altering weights on the 3 days? Just asking because after work I am just fizzled out on top of being on a cut for 6+ months its hard to remember things or im just lazy idk just thought I would ask the question. Thank You
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  19. #7789
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Hello nightanole,

    I have another question, I'm not that busy but busy working 2 jobs and noticed that I have just been doing the workouts 3x a week with the same weight and not doing light, medium and high weight sets. Is it ok to just use one weight for one whole cycle instead of altering weights on the 3 days? Just asking because after work I am just fizzled out on top of being on a cut for 6+ months its hard to remember things or im just lazy idk just thought I would ask the question. Thank You
    The joke is, if you can do 3 heavies a week, you are not going heavy enough.

    Instead of doing it 3 days a week with 1 weight, do 2 heavies a week with the correct weight. HEAVY HEAVY is doing 2 workouts a week, at least 72 hours apart. In order to make up the main lift volume, the first 3 exercises (bench row squat) should be 3 sets instead of 2 sets, other than test day. The other lifts should remain at 2 sets. The sessions are dam hard, but you do get at least a full extra day to recover.

    But unfortunately 3 mediums wont work. Whats going to happen is 3 mediums wont produce much growth, and once you get to the point its really 3 heavies, you wont be able to recover and end up burning out really early on during a cycle.
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  20. #7790
    Registered User mzimm15's Avatar
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    Also, is it normal if I'm cutting to reach the 13% BF target that I notice I'm failing to complete some of my heavy day lifts? For example I was marginally able to complete my squat (was very difficult but I did complete it) and I failed on the last set of the bench press on rep 5 out of 9.

    Should I reduce the weight a bit or write it off as a crappy day and leave it alone?
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  21. #7791
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mzimm15 View Post
    Also, is it normal if I'm cutting to reach the 13% BF target that I notice I'm failing to complete some of my heavy day lifts? For example I was marginally able to complete my squat (was very difficult but I did complete it) and I failed on the last set of the bench press on rep 5 out of 9.

    Should I reduce the weight a bit or write it off as a crappy day and leave it alone?
    Shouldnt be missing reps till 11-12 rep weeks. If you are failing at 10 reps, you are cutting too deep, and long term that will lead to muscle loss. In that situation its better to up the nutrition and up the cardio, sometimes you just cant keep cutting calories.
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  22. #7792
    Registered User Hulkweiler's Avatar
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    Just finished 10 rep heavy day of cycle 3.

    This program is really starting to kick my ass.

    I still have never missed a rep on any exercise, but I am wiped out after this weeks heavy day.

    How many cycles do people normally get out of this program?

    I'm starting to struggle to believe that I can pass two more cycles (+20% weight to what I'm doing now).

    I'm confident I can pass test day in two weeks - but next cycle will be a killer!

    Progress so far (if anyone can comment on how I'm progressing and how balanced/imbalanced my lifts look I'd really appreciate it!)

    Squat - start 165lbs - now 198lbs
    Bench - start 132lbs - now 160lbs
    Row - start 110lbs - now 138lbs
    Overhead Press - start 66lbs - now 88lbs
    SLDL - start 154lbs - now 198lbs
    Curl - 66lbs - now 88lbs
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  23. #7793
    Registered User mzimm15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Shouldnt be missing reps till 11-12 rep weeks. If you are failing at 10 reps, you are cutting too deep, and long term that will lead to muscle loss. In that situation its better to up the nutrition and up the cardio, sometimes you just cant keep cutting calories.
    One other thing I can think of that may be contributing to my failed sets - I've recently started to do weighted chins (5@45#, 3@45#, 5@25#, 5@25#, 5@bw and 7@bw). I've been doing this on my cardio days (non all pro day). Should I move this to my all pro day after the workout or would I be fine to continue this as I've been doing?

    Typically on the cardio day I do some ab work and one set of 30 diamond pushups, hand grippers and reverse curl for some forearm work.

    One other issue is I've been skipping my pre workout snack which is around 200 calories. Is it vital I eat something pre workout (I work out after work and before supper)?
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    Originally Posted by Hulkweiler View Post
    Just finished 10 rep heavy day of cycle 3.

    This program is really starting to kick my ass.

    I still have never missed a rep on any exercise, but I am wiped out after this weeks heavy day.

    How many cycles do people normally get out of this program?

    I'm starting to struggle to believe that I can pass two more cycles (+20% weight to what I'm doing now).

    I'm confident I can pass test day in two weeks - but next cycle will be a killer!

    Progress so far (if anyone can comment on how I'm progressing and how balanced/imbalanced my lifts look I'd really appreciate it!)

    Squat - start 165lbs - now 198lbs
    Bench - start 132lbs - now 160lbs
    Row - start 110lbs - now 138lbs
    Overhead Press - start 66lbs - now 88lbs
    SLDL - start 154lbs - now 198lbs
    Curl - 66lbs - now 88lbs
    5-7 cycles

    It becomes an arse kicker by the time you can bench body weight 10 times with a bmi of 24, and squat 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps. At that point the program is too fast, and the volume is too low.

    Honestly your numbers look perfectly balanced. SLDL is a little high(or squat a little low), and a bench pass but row fail would put you outside the limits.
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    Originally Posted by mzimm15 View Post
    One other thing I can think of that may be contributing to my failed sets - I've recently started to do weighted chins (5@45#, 3@45#, 5@25#, 5@25#, 5@bw and 7@bw). I've been doing this on my cardio days (non all pro day). Should I move this to my all pro day after the workout or would I be fine to continue this as I've been doing?

    Typically on the cardio day I do some ab work and one set of 30 diamond pushups, hand grippers and reverse curl for some forearm work.

    One other issue is I've been skipping my pre workout snack which is around 200 calories. Is it vital I eat something pre workout (I work out after work and before supper)?
    If you "think" its affecting the allpro workout, do it directly after the workout. You can go nutts after the workout, but doing heavy things on off days robs recovery. Take me as an example, i do chinups and leg raises in one movement. If i do these on off days my squat suffers because my abs hurt and i cant brace properly. Like wise too many chins on off days will cause my grip to fail sometimes for the core workout.


    This anaerobic exercise, you are not running off of blood glucose, so the meal before the workout is not fueling you. The meal that you ate 8-12 hours before hand is what replenished your glycogen reserves, which is what is fueling the workout. So as example, if you are the "carbs in the morning protein in the evening" folk and exercise in the morning, well its been dam near 18-24 hours since you ate carbs, which is not a good thing. But if you ate the oats of the gods for breakfast, skipped lunch, and workout before dinner, you still would be cool. The 200-500 cal or preworkout you ate 15-60min before the workout is just going to boost blood glucose, its not going to refuel your muscles.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you "think" its affecting the allpro workout, do it directly after the workout. You can go nutts after the workout, but doing heavy things on off days robs recovery. Take me as an example, i do chinups and leg raises in one movement. If i do these on off days my squat suffers because my abs hurt and i cant brace properly. Like wise too many chins on off days will cause my grip to fail sometimes for the core workout.


    This anaerobic exercise, you are not running off of blood glucose, so the meal before the workout is not fueling you. The meal that you ate 8-12 hours before hand is what replenished your glycogen reserves, which is what is fueling the workout. So as example, if you are the "carbs in the morning protein in the evening" folk and exercise in the morning, well its been dam near 18-24 hours since you ate carbs, which is not a good thing. But if you ate the oats of the gods for breakfast, skipped lunch, and workout before dinner, you still would be cool. The 200-500 cal or preworkout you ate 15-60min before the workout is just going to boost blood glucose, its not going to refuel your muscles.
    When I fail to reach my required reps on the last set is it appropriate to do another make up set to get the volume in or do I just fail it and move on to the next exercise?
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    Originally Posted by mzimm15 View Post
    When I fail to reach my required reps on the last set is it appropriate to do another make up set to get the volume in or do I just fail it and move on to the next exercise?
    fail and move on.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    5-7 cycles

    It becomes an arse kicker by the time you can bench body weight 10 times with a bmi of 24, and squat 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps. At that point the program is too fast, and the volume is too low.

    Honestly your numbers look perfectly balanced. SLDL is a little high(or squat a little low), and a bench pass but row fail would put you outside the limits.
    Thanks for the response and feedback - really appreciate it.

    I think I'm more likely to fail bench first than row - but will see how I go!

    My BMI is 31 due to a combination of large build and fat around the guts that's built up over the years (I'm 40y/o - not that that's an excuse!)

    Even when I was at peak fitness in the military and had hardly any fat my BMI was 27.

    Guess I've gotta lose some weight but worried I'll lose some strength as well.

    I literally cannot imagine doing 227lbs bench and 330lbs squat for 10 reps at the end of this program!

    Maybe I'm just weak hahaha - but I'll stick at it and see if I can get there.
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    Originally Posted by Hulkweiler View Post
    I literally cannot imagine doing 227lbs bench and 330lbs squat for 10 reps at the end of this program!

    Maybe I'm just weak hahaha - but I'll stick at it and see if I can get there.
    if you're 227 and BMI 31, you won't be aiming for 227 bench at end of program, more like benching ~170-175 at BMI 24 (I don't know your exact height)
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    Originally Posted by carsonm View Post
    if you're 227 and BMI 31, you won't be aiming for 227 bench at end of program, more like benching ~170-175 at BMI 24 (I don't know your exact height)
    Okay thanks for that. That weight on bench sounds very doable.

    I guess I have some weight to lose then (a lot!). Unfortunately since I started this program I've put on weight rather than been losing it.
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