AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[xuerebx]

Everyones proportions are different, which will decide how much you can bend your knees before you get more than say an inch of hip drop, vs straight leg. I have really long arms and torso, and wee little legs. Without knee bend my head is just going to hit the floor. On the other side you have the all leg people with short torsos, they dont need to bend the knees at all.

So, I'm trying to improve form on the SLDL as per your links and instructions, so I've recorded a short video. It looks like I can go lower, but I wouldn't be able to tell if it wasn't for the clip as I feel a maximum stretch during the lift. I'm very inflexible though.

Could you offer some critique please? And thanks for your comments thus far.

https://streamable.com/sa2zic

[nightanole]

So, I'm trying to improve form on the SLDL as per your links and instructions, so I've recorded a short video. It looks like I can go lower, but I wouldn't be able to tell if it wasn't for the clip as I feel a maximum stretch during the lift. I'm very inflexible though.

Could you offer some critique please? And thanks for your comments thus far.

https://streamable.com/sa2zic

You are still not SLDL. You are rack pull deadlifting.

Look at your shins, they are always perpendicular to the floor.
Look at your bar path, it glides down your quads, over your knees, and down your shins.


Here is a bunch of more examples. No body is getting close to their knees, and everyone has the weight more over the toes.

https://allpro-sbr.fandom.com/wiki/S...egged_Deadlift

qs_12stiffLegDeadlift_mb.jpgStiff-Legged-Dumbbell-Deadlift.jpgstiff-leg-deadlift.jpg

[trynex]

I made some modifications to the routine and was wondering if there are any problems.

One thing I do different is I only do "heavy days" every 3rd day. E.g.

1. Heavy day
2. Rest day
3. Rest day
4. Heavy day
5. Rest day
6. Rest day
7. Heavy day etc

And instead of 5 week cycles, I do 3 week cycles. So 8 reps -> 9 reps -> 10 reps -> increase weight by 10% -> repeat. If I fail a cycle, I just keep trying it until I can get all my reps in.

Is this an okay approach? So far I made great progress (e.g. bicep curls from 26 lbs, now at 34 lbs) but I sort of plateau'd even with more than enough protein.

[nightanole]

I made some modifications to the routine and was wondering if there are any problems.

One thing I do different is I only do "heavy days" every 3rd day. E.g.

1. Heavy day
2. Rest day
3. Rest day
4. Heavy day
5. Rest day
6. Rest day
7. Heavy day etc

And instead of 5 week cycles, I do 3 week cycles. So 8 reps -> 9 reps -> 10 reps -> increase weight by 10% -> repeat. If I fail a cycle, I just keep trying it until I can get all my reps in.

Is this an okay approach? So far I made great progress (e.g. bicep curls from 26 lbs, now at 34 lbs) but I sort of plateau'd even with more than enough protein.

That is not going to work long term.

Lets make some more routines that are not going to work.

"im going to work out every 48 hours using 3x5 and add 2 pounds every week for a year. it should be great because i will only be adding 100lbs"

"im going to workout every 72 hours and add 1 pound every workout for a year. It will be even easier because it will be less than 100lbs in a year"

What it boils down to is 11-12 rep week are so grueling that they should be unsustainable, they are "overreaching". And at the same time if you only did 10 rep week, you would stop adapting/growing after about 6 weeks, and stall.

It is possible to modify allpro in different ways, but the pattern must remain the same. "4 reps added +10% or more". The other kind of hard rule is "72 hours rest before any heavy".

So you are free to workout heavy every 72 hours. You are free to add a rep every workout. you are not free to workout only in the 8-10 rep range. 4-8 reps sure, 15-20 reps sure.

So if i was going to salvage this with your goals of a shorter cycle... I would workout every 72 hours and add a rep every workout. If you added a rep every other workout its only a few days shorter that regular allpro so why bother.

1. Heavy day 8
2. Rest day
3. Rest day
4. Heavy day 9
5. Rest day
6. Rest day
7. Heavy day 10
8. Rest day
9. Rest day
10. Heavy day 11
11. Rest day
12. Rest day
13. Heavy day 12

[trynex]

That is not going to work long term.

Lets make some more routines that are not going to work.

"im going to work out every 48 hours using 3x5 and add 2 pounds every week for a year. it should be great because i will only be adding 100lbs"

"im going to workout every 72 hours and add 1 pound every workout for a year. It will be even easier because it will be less than 100lbs in a year"

What it boils down to is 11-12 rep week are so grueling that they should be unsustainable, they are "overreaching". And at the same time if you only did 10 rep week, you would stop adapting/growing after about 6 weeks, and stall.

It is possible to modify allpro in different ways, but the pattern must remain the same. "4 reps added +10% or more". The other kind of hard rule is "72 hours rest before any heavy".

So you are free to workout heavy every 72 hours. You are free to add a rep every workout. you are not free to workout only in the 8-10 rep range. 4-8 reps sure, 15-20 reps sure.

So if i was going to salvage this with your goals of a shorter cycle... I would workout every 72 hours and add a rep every workout. If you added a rep every other workout its only a few days shorter that regular allpro so why bother.

1. Heavy day 8
2. Rest day
3. Rest day
4. Heavy day 9
5. Rest day
6. Rest day
7. Heavy day 10
8. Rest day
9. Rest day
10. Heavy day 11
11. Rest day
12. Rest day
13. Heavy day 12

Excellent, thanks! And if I fail 11 reps, do I start over at 8 reps?

Also one thing I'm worried about, I can only use dumbbells because of lack of space in my room. I don't have enough weight plates to make deadlifts meaningful. Are deadlifts are very important part of this routine? Is there an alternative?

[nightanole]

Excellent, thanks! And if I fail 11 reps, do I start over at 8 reps?

Also one thing I'm worried about, I can only use dumbbells because of lack of space in my room. I don't have enough weight plates to make deadlifts meaningful. Are deadlifts are very important part of this routine? Is there an alternative?

If you fail, you continue the cycle. Yes if you also fail 12 rep day you repeat the weight the next day which would be 8 rep again. But you always try for that days rep goal throughout the cycle.

Deadlifts finish out the hamstrings and glutes that are not completely used by squats. The SLDL should be less than the squat weight(because anatomical reasons since the weight is farther from you vs a normal deadlift), so you shouldnt have any issues till you top out your squat weights.

[xuerebx]

You are still not SLDL. You are rack pull deadlifting.

Look at your shins, they are always perpendicular to the floor.
Look at your bar path, it glides down your quads, over your knees, and down your shins.


Here is a bunch of more examples. No body is getting close to their knees, and everyone has the weight more over the toes.

https://allpro-sbr.fandom.com/wiki/S...egged_Deadlift

Attachment 9254851Attachment 9254861Attachment 9254871

You're right, I was focusing on keeping my back straight but neglected to follow the bar path. I'll try again with a new video this week.

Do you think starting out the lift with the bar being further away from me helps solve the issues you mentioned?

[nightanole]

You're right, I was focusing on keeping my back straight but neglected to follow the bar path. I'll try again with a new video this week.

Do you think starting out the lift with the bar being further away from me helps solve the issues you mentioned?

How far you "push" the bar towards you will help with balance. How far you need to keep the bar towards you is based on your proportions. Some people can have shoulders over toes and just let the bar dangle. Others like myself need to bend the knees a bit and push the bar over toes else our heads hit the ground as we topple over. But as you start to bend over, the bar should end up over toes very quickly. Its pretty easy to tell if you are starting right. Just ask yourself "are my shins bending backwards on the way down?" If they are not, you are just deadlifting or rack pulling.

[xuerebx]

How far you "push" the bar towards you will help with balance. How far you need to keep the bar towards you is based on your proportions. Some people can have shoulders over toes and just let the bar dangle. Others like myself need to bend the knees a bit and push the bar over toes else our heads hit the ground as we topple over. But as you start to bend over, the bar should end up over toes very quickly. Its pretty easy to tell if you are starting right. Just ask yourself "are my shins bending backwards on the way down?" If they are not, you are just deadlifting or rack pulling.

So I've tried again, but it's not as easy as the videos show. To bend my shins backward on the way down I can only seem to do so if I don't bend my knees. I also tried focusing to NOT glide the weight over my thighs.

https://streamable.com/mrgmdx

Any improvement?

[nightanole]

So I've tried again, but it's not as easy as the videos show. To bend my shins backward on the way down I can only seem to do so if I don't bend my knees. I also tried focusing to NOT glide the weight over my thighs.

https://streamable.com/mrgmdx

Any improvement?

That secondish rep was perfect. Slight bend in the knees and the bar was plenty far from your knees.

SLDL.jpg

:

[NicholasMango]

I’m gonna pop back in with two questions, both of which I’m sure have been asked(I think I even asked the first one before a few months ago), but the search function sucks and I can’t find them


1.) if this routine was done by a girl, how should the progression be altered? Or is 10% per cycle still doable?

2.) if someone has knee pain when squatting (tendon issue) what would the most reasonable substitute be? My gut is to do SDL or just regular DLs instead. Machines aren’t an option since gyms are closed so all I’ve got is a barbell and some very light dumbbells (16lb max each hand)

[nightanole]

I’m gonna pop back in with two questions, both of which I’m sure have been asked(I think I even asked the first one before a few months ago), but the search function sucks and I can’t find them


1.) if this routine was done by a girl, how should the progression be altered? Or is 10% per cycle still doable?

2.) if someone has knee pain when squatting (tendon issue) what would the most reasonable substitute be? My gut is to do SDL or just regular DLs instead. Machines aren’t an option since gyms are closed so all I’ve got is a barbell and some very light dumbbells (16lb max each hand)

No changes for girls. Girls can run the program 50-100% longer vs boys before the volume becomes too low to push progression. Once you are in the groove you will not be able to pass test day as often as a healthy 20 something male, but there are plenty of 40-50 something males running it at a girls progression

The easiest fix for knee pain is a true box squat. look on youtube for "the ultimate box squat tutorial". Key pointers for allpro, while sitting on the box your shin should be perpendicular to the floor in all directions, and dont let your knees travel forward when getting off the box. Sit on the box as long as you like since this is for rehab. The true box squat equalizes tension on the knee and keeps you from changing directions mid hinge. Try to keep the box within 1" of breaking parallel. A little high is ok since there will be a 15 degree carry over to a normal squat, and a box squat is harder than a normal back squat.

[xuerebx]

That secondish rep was perfect. Slight bend in the knees and the bar was plenty far from your knees.

Attachment 9256761

Thanks man - I'll focus to carry over that rep into full sets.

[GonnaGetBig7]

Has anyone actually done this program with success?? Everyone talks about how great it is, yet very few actually reference personal experience. The lack of success stories I've seen, plus the PAINFULLY slow weight progression for the first 3 cycles are making me question this routine.

I'm coming off about an 18 month layoff after lifting for 6 years consistently. I want a beginner routine to get back into it. I want All Pro to be the answer, but I'm not confident that it is. And I don't want to waste 15 weeks to find out that I missed out on "noob" gains. Thoughts?

[nightanole]

Has anyone actually done this program with success?? Everyone talks about how great it is, yet very few actually reference personal experience. The lack of success stories I've seen, plus the PAINFULLY slow weight progression for the first 3 cycles are making me question this routine.

I'm coming off about an 18 month layoff after lifting for 6 years consistently. I want a beginner routine to get back into it. I want All Pro to be the answer, but I'm not confident that it is. And I don't want to waste 15 weeks to find out that I missed out on "noob" gains. Thoughts?

What painfully slow progression? Half the last 3 pages are people starting too high and failing the first test day. If you start out correct, and are young, you might double your squat working weight in 3 cycles just practicing the lift. 10 bumps are the minimum to fit the pattern. You can go 25-33% if you are doing the lift the first time in your life. On the other hand if you are close to intermediate, well 10% in the next year is considered dam good progress.


If you just want to get back into things, go with an auto regulated program like one of the stickies, or allpro auto regulated. Start off very light, and you will be at the correct weights in a week or so from the constant sessionly 10% bumps.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1376160513

[Attolia]

Is there a way I could modify this program since I don't have access to very heavy weights? Gyms are closed and I only have a few dumbbells/kettlebells but I'm also pretty weak lol. I'm currently on a bit of a cut but trying to maintain my muscle mass or increase it if I can.

I was thinking of trying this out but just keeping the weight consistent all three days..?

[nightanole]

Is there a way I could modify this program since I don't have access to very heavy weights? Gyms are closed and I only have a few dumbbells/kettlebells but I'm also pretty weak lol. I'm currently on a bit of a cut but trying to maintain my muscle mass or increase it if I can.

I was thinking of trying this out but just keeping the weight consistent all three days..?

Some time this year i recalculated it for someone who only had like a 20kg weight set, so he could go to like 30-50 reps. I dont feel like searching for the post..

But consistent weight will only last 6 weeks, then no more adaptation will take place.

[osmonix]

Has anyone actually done this program with success??

Yes I love this program and have told many friends about it. I'm guessing lack of happy posts is because folks are happy

I'm on cycle 8 and have increased weight for legs exercises ~40% and arm ~15%, I was already pretty good at arms. Happy to answer any questions you have

[xuerebx]

I'm having a little knee pain during (and after) squats, and I'd like to be able to improve my form. When I started Allpros (I'll be starting my last week of the first cycle next week) I went with lower weight to focus on form, after a 6 year hiatus from the gym.

Apart from the fact that I'm not using a squat rack (planning to buy one soon), at the bottom of the lift I go up once my ass touches the bench. I feel knee pain when going down - it's dull but it's there. Mentally I try to push my knees outwards but I still feel the pain.

Squat video - https://streamable.com/j9d1kg

SLDL take 3 (just to ensure that I'm on the right track after several video attempts) - https://streamable.com/pz49dy

[nightanole]

I'm having a little knee pain during (and after) squats, and I'd like to be able to improve my form. When I started Allpros (I'll be starting my last week of the first cycle next week) I went with lower weight to focus on form, after a 6 year hiatus from the gym.

Apart from the fact that I'm not using a squat rack (planning to buy one soon), at the bottom of the lift I go up once my ass touches the bench. I feel knee pain when going down - it's dull but it's there. Mentally I try to push my knees outwards but I still feel the pain.

Squat video - https://streamable.com/j9d1kg

SLDL take 3 (just to ensure that I'm on the right track after several video attempts) - https://streamable.com/pz49dy

Both forms look good.

Odds are the knee pain is from changing direction mid hinge. You either have to lower the "box" to below parallel, or you have to switch to a true box squat. You can look on you tube for "the ultimate box squat tutorial" or something. On allpro i want you to have your shins perpendicular to the floor in all directions once you are sitting on the box, and your knees can not travel forward when getting off the box. This helps knee recovery in 2 ways. #1 it equalizes torque on the knee. #2 its impossible to change direction mid hinge, since you are putting your full weight on the box, so the direction change will happen unloaded. You may have to deload 5-10%, since a box squat is harder than a normal back squat.

[TryingBB]

Both forms look good.

Odds are the knee pain is from changing direction mid hinge. You either have to lower the "box" to below parallel, or you have to switch to a true box squat. You can look on you tube for "the ultimate box squat tutorial" or something. On allpro i want you to have your shins perpendicular to the floor in all directions once you are sitting on the box, and your knees can not travel forward when getting off the box. This helps knee recovery in 2 ways. #1 it equalizes torque on the knee. #2 its impossible to change direction mid hinge, since you are putting your full weight on the box, so the direction change will happen unloaded. You may have to deload 5-10%, since a box squat is harder than a normal back squat.

Do you stretch?

I used to get knee pain from squatting. Had bad form and fixed it (I think lol) but still sometimes would get the pain.

Before workout, I do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1e528F0pYPg

After workout I do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjqvO4gn8k

You can probably skip the first video. Second video you can just the lower body.

Helped me big time...I have noticed if I don’t stretch for one workout and for sure two workouts in a row, I start getting weird aches and pains and chit

[TryingBB]

Hello nightanole, today is week 4 heavy day and I’m in the middle of my darned workout.

Week 3 workout was great. I did 10 Reps with one or so rep in tank on almost every exercise except bicep curls.

Well last night I slept like crap. Had some stresses going on but anywho, got maybe 2 hours of solid sleep and 2 hours of crappy sleep. That’s about it. today on week 4 heavy day, I’m done with squat and bench. Squat I got 11 and 8 reps. 11 was pushing it and I took like 3 second break between 10th and 11th rep.

Bench press I got 11 and 10 reps.

Weights are feeling heavy and I just feel it’s gonna be a crappy workout the rest of the what’s left.

What’s the next steps for medium and light day and next week? Was looking forward to passing next week dunno how this will affect it...

I did makeup the missed reps as a 3rd set after 30 second rest between 2nd and3rd set.

If it helps atall, the failure today didn’t feel like my muscles didn’t have the energy or strength. I just couldn’t produce the force and I was not out of breath either. After 5 or 6th reps, it started feeling heavier and heavier and reps got slower and slower....

[nightanole]

Hello nightanole, today is week 4 heavy day and I’m in the middle of my darned workout.

Week 3 workout was great. I did 10 Reps with one or so rep in tank on almost every exercise except bicep curls.

Well last night I slept like crap. Had some stresses going on but anywho, got maybe 2 hours of solid sleep and 2 hours of crappy sleep. That’s about it. today on week 4 heavy day, I’m done with squat and bench. Squat I got 11 and 8 reps. 11 was pushing it and I took like 3 second break between 10th and 11th rep.

Bench press I got 11 and 10 reps.

Weights are feeling heavy and I just feel it’s gonna be a crappy workout the rest of the what’s left.

What’s the next steps for medium and light day and next week? Was looking forward to passing next week dunno how this will affect it...

I did makeup the missed reps as a 3rd set after 30 second rest between 2nd and3rd set.

If it helps atall, the failure today didn’t feel like my muscles didn’t have the energy or strength. I just couldn’t produce the force and I was not out of breath either. After 5 or 6th reps, it started feeling heavier and heavier and reps got slower and slower....

Your CNS is shot. You have to do something to increase your recovery. If this is your first heavy day of the week. I would skip medium and just do another heavy in 72 hours. This would make it a heavy heavy week. As i said before, 11 and 12 rep week are unsustainable they are the overreach section of the program. So pull out whatever tools you have in your tool box to increase recovery, or at least reduce the fatigue build up. Brisk walk/recumbent bike for an hour or 2 straight, mess with your carb/fat/protein/sodium/potassium ratios to gain some water weight, drink a gallon of water a day for 2 days. Whatever works for you. A heavy heavy week is the least taxing on your recovery, but its still unsustainable...

[TryingBB]

Your CNS is shot. You have to do something to increase your recovery. If this is your first heavy day of the week. I would skip medium and just do another heavy in 72 hours. This would make it a heavy heavy week. As i said before, 11 and 12 rep week are unsustainable they are the overreach section of the program. So pull out whatever tools you have in your tool box to increase recovery, or at least reduce the fatigue build up. Brisk walk/recumbent bike for an hour or 2 straight, mess with your carb/fat/protein/sodium/potassium ratios to gain some water weight, drink a gallon of water a day for 2 days. Whatever works for you. A heavy heavy week is the least taxing on your recovery, but its still unsustainable...

I’ve been doing jumping jacks etc randomly during the day Three or so
Times a day to 50% to 70% of my capacity and it has actually helped a lot with gaining lesser fat this time around and better recovery.

So...about crappy workout today - I was recovered just fine last night.

Lack of sleep last night was due to personal/work issues and not cuz I couldn’t sleep due to under recovery. Couldn’t just turn my mind off. Got some exciting stuff going on at work...

Week 3 was also a heavy heavy week cuz I couldn’t do my heavy workout on the day I was supposed to do it.

Should I still skip medium day and do a heavy heavy week during my current week 4?

Thx man. I’m loving the program. Seeing results and getting complements from guys and girls

[sonivx]

Thanks!!

So I started playing around with random weights last two week to see my 10 rep max and get the muscles warmed up to avoid the fatigue and soreness of initial days.

Surprisingly my 10 rep max for both Bench Press and Squats both coming out at 155 lb which is equal. I recall some post that said Bench press should be ~80% of squats. body weight 181lb/173cms. Befor Covid my Week 5 heavy day test weight for squat was 185 lb and 165 lb for bench. I was struggling with BoR at 140 lb before Covid and feeling gassed out at 110lb currently. Do these numbers make any sense?

[nightanole]

I’ve been doing jumping jacks etc randomly during the day Three or so
Times a day to 50% to 70% of my capacity and it has actually helped a lot with gaining lesser fat this time around and better recovery.

So...about crappy workout today - I was recovered just fine last night.

Lack of sleep last night was due to personal/work issues and not cuz I couldn’t sleep due to under recovery. Couldn’t just turn my mind off. Got some exciting stuff going on at work...

Week 3 was also a heavy heavy week cuz I couldn’t do my heavy workout on the day I was supposed to do it.

Should I still skip medium day and do a heavy heavy week during my current week 4?

Thx man. I’m loving the program. Seeing results and getting complements from guys and girls

You can do heavy heavy as much as you like. If you are doing it 2-3 cycles straight you should add an extra set to bench/row/squat other than test day. heavy heavy used to be "the holiday schedule" due to everyones hectic weeks.

[nightanole]

Thanks!!

So I started playing around with random weights last two week to see my 10 rep max and get the muscles warmed up to avoid the fatigue and soreness of initial days.

Surprisingly my 10 rep max for both Bench Press and Squats both coming out at 155 lb , body weight 181lb/173cms. Befor Covid my Week 5 heavy day test weight for squat was 185 lb and 165 lb for squats. I was struggling with BoR at 140 lb before Covid and feeling gassed out at 110lb currently. Do these numbers make any sense?

only 3x5, you just barely made it, RPE 9 at least. You take 4 weeks off. You unrack it and the first rep will pin you to the bench...

But strength comes back VERY rapidly. You may want to run auto regulated for a cycle just to get back to 185 as quickly as possible. Id even start off at 140-155lbs so you "pass" a few times in the first week.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

[sonivx]

]


Does the Current Squat and Bench press numbers make any sense? Or my off days mountain and road biking is taking toll on my squats😒

[nightanole]

]


Does the Current Squat and Bench press numbers make any sense? Or my off days mountain and road biking is taking toll on my squats😒

I have no ratios for squat vs bench. Hell we had a few rock climbers and day laborers that would row 220 and bench 135... Then there are the "good at bench" that would bench 220, and 70lbs was the 1 rep max on OHP.

Squat should be higher than SLDL
OHP should be at least 60% of bench
Row should be around the same as bench +-20%

Anything you can sustain for at least 45min should really be helping squat. Or you are not refeeding properly so your glycogen stores are not getting replenished fast enough for the next workout.

[xuerebx]

Both forms look good.

Odds are the knee pain is from changing direction mid hinge. You either have to lower the "box" to below parallel, or you have to switch to a true box squat. You can look on you tube for "the ultimate box squat tutorial" or something. On allpro i want you to have your shins perpendicular to the floor in all directions once you are sitting on the box, and your knees can not travel forward when getting off the box. This helps knee recovery in 2 ways. #1 it equalizes torque on the knee. #2 its impossible to change direction mid hinge, since you are putting your full weight on the box, so the direction change will happen unloaded. You may have to deload 5-10%, since a box squat is harder than a normal back squat.

Thanks for the feedback nightanole. I'll consider the box squat if the pain continues after I start using a squat rack and I go a bit deeper (watched the video you mentioned, seems like an interesting variation!).

In the meantime I'll try a slightly wider stance and toes pointed out more.

Do you stretch?

I used to get knee pain from squatting. Had bad form and fixed it (I think lol) but still sometimes would get the pain.

Before workout, I do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1e528F0pYPg

After workout I do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjqvO4gn8k

You can probably skip the first video. Second video you can just the lower body.

Helped me big time...I have noticed if I don’t stretch for one workout and for sure two workouts in a row, I start getting weird aches and pains and chit

Cheers - I used to stretch in the past and it did me good. Might resume stretching even just for general well being (not only for knee pain I mean).