AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Why would you suggest upright rows? Does that even work the bicep?

upright rows is prefered vs the curl. The curl is just thrown in because other wise curl bros wouldnt run the program. Its so easy to max out the bicep that its not even funny, so if you can max out the bicep and have the exercise be a compound such as the row, up right row, chinup, etc, you get a better return on your investment. Or your could spend 15min doing preacher curls, which would be about 25% of your time in the gym.

[Vyprath]

In terms of my slight front felt pain that I have been experiencing for a while now, could it be because my grip width is to wide on bench press? I know that my elbows are not inline with my wrist and that my wrists are wider than my elbows. I use a width of pinkies just inside the rings

[nightanole]

In terms of my slight front felt pain that I have been experiencing for a while now, could it be because my grip width is to wide on bench press? I know that my elbows are not inline with my wrist and that my wrists are wider than my elbows. I use a width of pinkies just inside the rings

If the eblows are not under teh wrist, you will be pushing at an angle, and not straight up. Honestly im at a loss, since the only real front delt exercise i can think of is the arnold press. Just about any press works the front delts, and no one has ever needed front delt work. So isolating the issue is a problem. If anything im wondering if you are going too low on the chest on the bench due to your narrow ish grip.

The only thing i can think of is replace flat bench with a slight (15-20 degrees) decline.

[Vyprath]

If the eblows are not under teh wrist, you will be pushing at an angle, and not straight up. Honestly im at a loss, since the only real front delt exercise i can think of is the arnold press. Just about any press works the front delts, and no one has ever needed front delt work. So isolating the issue is a problem. If anything im wondering if you are going too low on the chest on the bench due to your narrow ish grip.

The only thing i can think of is replace flat bench with a slight (15-20 degrees) decline.

Wouldn’t my grip be considered to wide for my arm length, as I’m pushing up at an angle as wrist and elbow aren’t lined up? I think it might of been from the straight up and down bar path I tried as I felt a very deep stretch from that

[nightanole]

Wouldn’t my grip be considered to wide for my arm length, as I’m pushing up at an angle as wrist and elbow aren’t lined up? I think it might of been from the straight up and down bar path I tried as I felt a very deep stretch from that

Elbows under wrists is regardless of grip width. If your elbows are closer to your body than the wrists, you need to flare your elbows more. You can go ultra wide and have index fingers 1" beyond the rings, and still have eblows under the wrists, you can go ultra narrow and still have elbows under the wrists.

Obviously elbows are not going to be under the wrist at lockout if you are going wide, but they will be at the bottom of the rep at chest level, else you are not flaring your eblows enough.

Hmm. Come to think of it, if your elbows are closer to your body at chest level vs wrists, when you push up, you will be putting tension on your rotator cuff, like losing in an arm wrestling match. And that could strain the front delt. If that is the case, its impossible to dumb bell bench without having the elbows under the wrists. So you could try hammer grip bench, and keep "the hammer" in line with your bicep. So the dumb bell handles are at about a 90 degree angle from each other.

[Vyprath]

Elbows under wrists is regardless of grip width. If your elbows are closer to your body than the wrists, you need to flare your elbows more. You can go ultra wide and have index fingers 1" beyond the rings, and still have eblows under the wrists, you can go ultra narrow and still have elbows under the wrists.

Obviously elbows are not going to be under the wrist at lockout if you are going wide, but they will be at the bottom of the rep at chest level, else you are not flaring your eblows enough.

Hmm. Come to think of it, if your elbows are closer to your body at chest level vs wrists, when you push up, you will be putting tension on your rotator cuff, like losing in an arm wrestling match. And that could strain the front delt. If that is the case, its impossible to dumb bell bench without having the elbows under the wrists. So you could try hammer grip bench, and keep "the hammer" in line with your bicep. So the dumb bell handles are at about a 90 degree angle from each other.

If I adjusted my grip to make my elbows and wrists in line with each other wouldn’t thag solve the problem.

Also have been having shoulder pain at the top and near where it goes down the arm, I imagine this is from lateral raises pinching my shoulder as there’s no room left to move when raising my arm

[nightanole]

If I adjusted my grip to make my elbows and wrists in line with each other wouldn’t thag solve the problem.

Also have been having shoulder pain at the top and near where it goes down the arm, I imagine this is from lateral raises pinching my shoulder as there’s no room left to move when raising my arm

You can adjust your grip or your elbows, i dont care which. If you have safety "BARS" you can also switch to doing reverse grip bench, but its dangerous outside of a power rack.

Lateral raises will not cause shoulder damage(remember you are doing them to build up the shoulder) if they are done correctly, keep the pinky down, or at least below the index finger.

[Vyprath]

You can adjust your grip or your elbows, i dont care which. If you have safety "BARS" you can also switch to doing reverse grip bench, but its dangerous outside of a power rack.

Lateral raises will not cause shoulder damage(remember you are doing them to build up the shoulder) if they are done correctly, keep the pinky down, or at least below the index finger.

What are your thoughts on the lateral raise machine in comparison to dumbbells? Feel like I’m less prone to injury on that.

Are there any disadvantages to moving over to DB bench press instead of BB, or maybe DB bench press twice a week and BB once a week? In terms of like strength and hypertrophy gains

[nightanole]

What are your thoughts on the lateral raise machine in comparison to dumbbells? Feel like I’m less prone to injury on that.

Are there any disadvantages to moving over to DB bench press instead of BB, or maybe DB bench press twice a week and BB once a week? In terms of like strength and hypertrophy gains

The shoulder is a floating joint, im not keen on using a fixed hinge machine on it. Yes it will work fine if you are perfectly aligned, yes it will cause impingement if you are not. You can always try different grips for the lateral raises, the only one you cant do is the pinky up version.

DB bench will be a little slower progression, and a little lighter weight, other than that either one is good. You can not switch between them, you could however swap every 2-3 cycles, or db bench primary, and BB bench as an accessory after the allpro workout.

[GenerationZero]

Currently doing 11 reps and man I'm fatigued after today's workout. I think I will just about complete the 12 reps next week. When I drop back to 8 reps could I use the same warm up weight I currently do but increase the working 2 sets weight only?

[nightanole]

Currently doing 11 reps and man I'm fatigued after today's workout. I think I will just about complete the 12 reps next week. When I drop back to 8 reps could I use the same warm up weight I currently do but increase the working 2 sets weight only?

You have a lot of leeway for warmups. "mimic the movement with sub maximal weight". If you are going from 100lbs, to 110lbs, it really doesnt matter if your final warmup weight is 40lbs or 60lbs. Infact you could use 45lbs for 2 sets for your warmup up to even 1 plate.

No you do not have to adjust warmup weight for each day, and you dont have to add reps. Just pick a weight that is around half your medium day (+-10%), and do it for 10 reps, every workout, all cycle. The first set can be what ever the lightest bar is in the gym, or even a broom handle/plastic pipe. Once you are beyond allpro, your first warmup will be the 45lb bar for 10-20 reps, for the rest of your life. Then you will add a warmup set for every 40-60lbs you add to the bar, and you will start removing reps as the warmups get heavier.

So say you are warming up for 225 for 10 squat

first set is the bar for 10 reps
second set for 10 of 95lbs
3rd set of like 5 reps for 1 plate(135lbs)
And if you wanted to you could have 2-3 reps of 195-205lbs.

What we dont want is a beginner to spend more time warming up than working out, and not being able to tell where the warmups end and the workout begins. You will see tons of people basically doing a ramp session and starting with the bar, and doing 10 rep sets, adding 40-60lbs, till the last 2-3 sets that are straight weight. In that case you would have been better off with a much smaller warmup, so you could have worked out with a heavier weight.

[Vyprath]

Am I able to change my flat bench to incline for a week to two while my shoulder heals, I heard it puts a lot less stress on the shoulders

For some reason I am really struggling to keep my wrists in line with elbows during bench press, no matter how narrow my grip goes, i have always tried to flare the eblows more but I feel it puts to much stress on my shoulders and is almost in a 90degree position

[Time-Man]

Damit , feels like i hit a damn wall on my squats been stuck on 209lbs for 2 cycles now . Everytime I do test I fail on the last 2 reps . Any advice to break that barrier ? Or just repeat the cycle till I get it ? As extra info my bench is lagging behind so maybe just keep repeating same weight till my bench and other lifts catch up ?

It's just the mental thing that is starting to bug me

[nightanole]

Am I able to change my flat bench to incline for a week to two while my shoulder heals, I heard it puts a lot less stress on the shoulders

For some reason I am really struggling to keep my wrists in line with elbows during bench press, no matter how narrow my grip goes, i have always tried to flare the eblows more but I feel it puts to much stress on my shoulders and is almost in a 90degree position

The shoulder friendly version of the bench is the decline You could just reset to 9 rep week, and you dont even drop the weight, since decline is easier than flat.

[nightanole]

Damit , feels like i hit a damn wall on my squats been stuck on 209lbs for 2 cycles now . Everytime I do test I fail on the last 2 reps . Any advice to break that barrier ? Or just repeat the cycle till I get it ? As extra info my bench is lagging behind so maybe just keep repeating same weight till my bench and other lifts catch up ?

It's just the mental thing that is starting to bug me

Are you going up or down at least 1kg per cycle?

If so, you have a few options.

1, you can switch to novice, which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest.
2, you can switch to greyskull for squats, which is 2 sets of 5, and then 1 AMRAP set, as long as you get at least 5 reps on the AMRAP, you add 2.5lbs to the next workout. If you fail to get 5 reps, you deload 10%, which will cause the reps on the amrap set to go to the moon.
3, you can switch to 10 sets of 3. You do sets of 3, resting 30 seconds, repeat till you get a slow rep, then you stop the session. If you get in all 30 reps (which only takes 7-10 minutes) you add 10%, which should knock you down to about 5-6 sets.

You can use your current working weight for any of the above patterns.

[Time-Man]

Are you going up or down at least 1kg per cycle?

If so, you have a few options.

1, you can switch to novice, which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest.
2, you can switch to greyskull for squats, which is 2 sets of 5, and then 1 AMRAP set, as long as you get at least 5 reps on the AMRAP, you add 2.5lbs to the next workout. If you fail to get 5 reps, you deload 10%, which will cause the reps on the amrap set to go to the moon.
3, you can switch to 10 sets of 3. You do sets of 3, resting 30 seconds, repeat till you get a slow rep, then you stop the session. If you get in all 30 reps (which only takes 7-10 minutes) you add 10%, which should knock you down to about 5-6 sets.

You can use your current working weight for any of the above patterns.

As always tnx nightanole will give it a try

[Vyprath]

Because of sport at school I can’t do my heavy days on Wednesday, same day as sport. Am I able to do Thursday, Saturday, Sunday? Or do I need a day between medium and light

[nightanole]

Because of sport at school I can’t do my heavy days on Wednesday, same day as sport. Am I able to do Thursday, Saturday, Sunday? Or do I need a day between medium and light

The only rule is 2 days rest before any heavy. So if you have to butt up medium and light, go for it. Or you can just do 2 heavies per week. If doing that long term, do 3 sets of bench/row/squat, but keep test day at 2 sets.

[Vyprath]

Today was my cycle 3 test day, passed all lifts except ohp and bench press, this is the second cycle in a row I have stalled on bench press. I missed it by only one rep on the second set.

[nightanole]

Today was my cycle 3 test day, passed all lifts except ohp and bench press, this is the second cycle in a row I have stalled on bench press. I missed it by only one rep on the second set.

BW going up or down by 1kg per cycle?

If so, i would try 1 set of decline at the end of each workout 10-20% heavier than your heavy day bench, we are shooting for failure at 3-5 reps.

[Vyprath]

BW going up or down by 1kg per cycle?

If so, i would try 1 set of decline at the end of each workout 10-20% heavier than your heavy day bench, we are shooting for failure at 3-5 reps.

Gaining 1kg+ per cycle, so I do 50kgish decline for 3-5 reps after each workout, heavy day bench is 45

[nightanole]

Gaining 1kg+ per cycle, so I do 50kgish decline for 3-5 reps after each workout, heavy day bench is 45

Yes. If the first try is an easy 4-5, add more weight. It might even take 25-33% more weight to knock you down to 4 reps once you get good at them. The whole point is to hit the upper threshold fibers on the first rep on, while trying to keep fatigue buildup to a minimum. So you are basically adding 12-15 "quality" reps per week, while hopefully not taxing recovery.

Plus you can eat your way to a bigger bench, but you cant eat your way to a bigger OHP

[GJM753]

On week 3 of my first cycle will be doing medium weight tonight...

quick question, i see alot of guys talking about test day? can you explain?

[nightanole]

On week 3 of my first cycle will be doing medium weight tonight...

quick question, i see alot of guys talking about test day? can you explain?

"feel free to miss a rep on any day but test day".

Test day is week 5 heavy day, 12 reps. Any lift you get 2 sets of 12 on, you "pass" and can add at least 10% more to the lift next cycle/week when you start over at 8 reps again. If you fail your test, you repeat next cycle with the same weight on that lift.

[GJM753]

Thanks nightanole.. looking forward to test day... i think

[GenerationZero]

On Monday (yesterday) I started week 5. Midway I felt ill and stopped working out. I had a stomach bug which means I won't be able to train tomorrow and might Friday depending on how I recover and my diet has not been hitting all my calories/macros (too sick to eat).

So how should I proceed the next time I'm working out? Past experience leads me to believe I need a couple of sessions to get back to my lifting weight but not sure what is the recommended approach in this scenario especially on week 5?

[nightanole]

On Monday (yesterday) I started week 5. Midway I felt ill and stopped working out. I had a stomach bug which means I won't be able to train tomorrow and might Friday depending on how I recover and my diet has not been hitting all my calories/macros (too sick to eat).

So how should I proceed the next time I'm working out? Past experience leads me to believe I need a couple of sessions to get back to my lifting weight but not sure what is the recommended approach in this scenario especially on week 5?

If you completed test day, then just start next cycle as normal. That will give you your 8 rep mini deload week. So you kinda got sic on schedule. Kinda sucks you had to skip the other 2 sessions on test week, but hey a pass is a pass.

[TonedJordan]

I have been following your suggestion you made in another thread. Current routine is:

Bench press, romanian deadlifts, shoulder press, leg press, bent over row, close grip pulldown, abs+ calves. (m/w/f, 3 sets per exercise. First set aim for rep target, following 2 RPE of 8).

Each workout (M/W/F) adding 1 rep to first set with same weight if i succesfully hit previous rep target. (M=10 reps, W=11 reps, F=12reps, then back to 8 with increased weight).

How does this look? Never worked with RPE before so not entiret sure im doing it correctly.

On Monday I did 10, then 8, then 7 reps on bench press. On Friday I did 9, then 8, then 7. I could have done another 1 or 2 reps.

P.S. Found my high rep work is far worse than low rep after fierce 5. From short sets with long rest times to long sets and short rest times - certainly showed me how unfit i am. Time for some cardio!

[nightanole]

I have been following your suggestion you made in another thread. Current routine is:

Bench press, romanian deadlifts, shoulder press, leg press, bent over row, close grip pulldown, abs+ calves. (m/w/f, 3 sets per exercise. First set aim for rep target, following 2 RPE of 8).

Each workout (M/W/F) adding 1 rep to first set with same weight if i succesfully hit previous rep target. (M=10 reps, W=11 reps, F=12reps, then back to 8 with increased weight).

How does this look? Never worked with RPE before so not entiret sure im doing it correctly.

On Monday I did 10, then 8, then 7 reps on bench press. On Friday I did 9, then 8, then 7. I could have done another 1 or 2 reps.

P.S. Found my high rep work is far worse than low rep after fierce 5. From short sets with long rest times to long sets and short rest times - certainly showed me how unfit i am. Time for some cardio!

That pattern works but its not allpro

It is also a very fast pattern and wont last any longer than F5 or allpro or any other first year program.

So yea milk it as much as you want, but after about the first year to 18 months, your progress will be measured in 10-33% added to the bar each year, vs first year where you are adding that monthly.

[TonedJordan]

That pattern works but its not allpro

It is also a very fast pattern and wont last any longer than F5 or allpro or any other first year program.

So yea milk it as much as you want, but after about the first year to 18 months, your progress will be measured in 10-33% added to the bar each year, vs first year where you are adding that monthly.

Thanks for the reply! Confirmed I made the correct decision to ask, as I could have sworn you posted this somewhere and labelled it as a self-regulated version to follow after beginner program.

I have just tried searching through your post history and now cannot find the original post! Did it disappear?!

Would you make any suggestions to change it up? All my lifts are around intermediate level now (i.e. can bench BW more than 10 reps)

Focusing in hypertrophy, and would like to do full body, 3 times per week. I really thought this was the way to go, and could have sworn you posted this as a novice to intermediate routine.