AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[rlefebvr]

Hi Nightanole,

Just finished a cut and looking for something new to add size.

I know you have recommended stuff before, but I can't seem to put my hands on the threads.

[nightanole]

Gotcha. So what you are saying is I should start our really light if needed to make sure I can get all of the reps in? I'm fairly new to the structured stuff, so bare with my questions.

yes, start out light. Worst case you have to bump 20-25% once you pass your 2 sets of 12 in 5 weeks. Thats alot better than starting too heavy and failing, and needing to spend 10 weeks at the same weight.

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole,

Just finished a cut and looking for something new to add size.

I know you have recommended stuff before, but I can't seem to put my hands on the threads.

"new"? like a program after allpro or something else?

[rlefebvr]

No I finished All Pro.
looking for something else.
I know most programs do both strength and size, but I would to do something that is more geared for size.

I know this is an All Pro thread, but I really value your opinion.

[nightanole]

No I finished All Pro.
looking for something else.
I know most programs do both strength and size, but I would to do something that is more geared for size.

I know this is an All Pro thread, but I really value your opinion.

For 2-3 years after allpro you can do :
Allpro intermediate programs. They are unsustainable, so they need to be rotated every 2-3 months
greyskull LP. I prefer /fit version, with some additional arm programming. Dont do phraks, its a filler routine for a kelostects based lifestyle.
5/3/1 BBB version, doing the BBB lift on different days of the primary lift. So 5/3/1 bench monday, and BBB bench friday, as an example
jason blahas "linear hypertrophy" program. This is the one were you go from 60% to 85% of 1rm over a period of 5-6 weeks.

Since these are intermediate, they are not cookie cutter, and you need to "roll your own", and will also need to be cycling through a set of varaints. So you might be doing 4 blocks for the year, flat bench, decline, incline, and weighted dips, for example. Or it could be narrow, wide, pause, etc.

[rlefebvr]

Thanks. That is perfect

[bjw11180]

For 2-3 years after allpro you can do :
Allpro intermediate programs. They are unsustainable, so they need to be rotated every 2-3 months
greyskull LP. I prefer /fit version, with some additional arm programming. Dont do phraks, its a filler routine for a kelostects based lifestyle.
5/3/1 BBB version, doing the BBB lift on different days of the primary lift. So 5/3/1 bench monday, and BBB bench friday, as an example
jason blahas "linear hypertrophy" program. This is the one were you go from 60% to 85% of 1rm over a period of 5-6 weeks.

Since these are intermediate, they are not cookie cutter, and you need to "roll your own", and will also need to be cycling through a set of varaints. So you might be doing 4 blocks for the year, flat bench, decline, incline, and weighted dips, for example. Or it could be narrow, wide, pause, etc.

What is the /fit version of Greyskull? I bought the book and don't recall seeing that mentioned.

[Vyprath]

Protip, the video list is a dumpster fire by this point, and i cant change it.

strength by science . com or whatever knuckles named it has a bar patch article. Depending on camera angle it can be very consfusing.

12 on teh first and 9 on the second tells me its either a recovery issue (glycogen stores are not full, or nutrient flushing sucks, aka bad cardio program), or ineffecent form, so a wee muscle gets worked out way to much and just gives up the ghost on the 2nd set.

I mean I eat 300 carbs a day, what do you mean by bad cardio program what do you suggest I do?

I mean I’m pretty sure my form is fine, when the bar sits on my chest my wrists almost line up with the elbows (but wider) by tthat should make me stronger

And I don’t do any cardio fyi

[nightanole]

What is the /fit version of Greyskull? I bought the book and don't recall seeing that mentioned.

greyskull only has 4 lifts, you have to roll the rest. There are many variants outthere.

[Vyprath]

How much would doing 2 sets of dips each session affect my beach press from day to day? They are done at the end of the session.

[Orewa]

********************/s/reasonable-doub...y-a6171f0518a2

Good read.

[nightanole]

How much would doing 2 sets of dips each session affect my beach press from day to day? They are done at the end of the session.

Could be anything. generally stuff done at the end of the workout doesnt affect the primary lifts as much as doing them on off days. In all reality they should be boosting it, else why would you be doing them.

[Vyprath]

Could be anything. generally stuff done at the end of the workout doesnt affect the primary lifts as much as doing them on off days. In all reality they should be boosting it, else why would you be doing them.

Why do you think I’ve been feeling week In the gym the past 2 weeks and how can I fix it? I get about 9 hours sleep a night.

My diet mainly consists of up and go, Nutella and peanut butter Sandwhich, chicken roll, pasta and something good for dinner like spaghetti bolognese. This is what I hit my daily calories and macros with

Also I’ve read quite a few comments and such that say upright Row is a dangerous exercise, what’s your thought on that

[nightanole]

Why do you think I’ve been feeling week In the gym the past 2 weeks and how can I fix it? I get about 9 hours sleep a night.

My diet mainly consists of up and go, Nutella and peanut butter Sandwhich, chicken roll, pasta and something good for dinner like spaghetti bolognese. This is what I hit my daily calories and macros with

Also I’ve read quite a few comments and such that say upright Row is a dangerous exercise, what’s your thought on that

Odds are its diet related. Take a week or 2 food log. Then look at it, see if you are severely lacking in an essential amino or fatty acid. You might be eating high quality food, but you may use a certain ingredient more than the next guy. Also make sure you are doing your cardio. It increases recovery, and allows you to eat a bit more food without putting on fat. For all i know you need more meat fat, or your veg protein profile is way unbalanced, or its something as simple as your not getting a key vitamin and you just need more carrots.

As for the upright row, yes the elbows to ears version is dangerous. It creates shoulder impingement and you end up flossing your shoulder joint with your connective tissue. However i have said many times, use a bar bell, and tune your grip width so that the lift naturally ends with your elbows at shoulder level.

[CooolStoryBro]

Can I swap stiffed leg deadlift for regular deadlift? I just can't do it, I arch my back badly.

Also if my working set is 40 kg. Should I do warm up as 2x20 kg due to equipment limitations, I don't have access to 10kg barbell,20kg is the minimum I can start from. Or should I do 20kg and then 30 kg as my warm-up ?

[nightanole]

Can I swap stiffed leg deadlift for regular deadlift? I just can't do it, I arch my back badly.

Also if my working set is 40 kg. Should I do warm up as 2x20 kg due to equipment limitations, I don't have access to 10kg barbell,20kg is the minimum I can start from. Or should I do 20kg and then 30 kg as my warm-up ?

The point of the SLDL is to fix your flexibility problem, it is not a heavy power move. At best you may be able to swap it for a romanian version (aka normal deadlift you slowly lower), but again it doesnt target the lack of hamstring flexibility.

Warmups are a bit of wild card. "2 sets of sub maximal weight that mimic the movement". So 2x20k or 2x30k could work. I would pick 2 sets of weight, do them for 10 reps, do them every workout for the entire cycle. medium day doesnt need to be 10% lighter etc, and you dont have to add reps as the weeks go on. Warmups are not there to grow muscle and progress on. Generally the final warmup set should be 50-75%ish of your light day working weight.

[Vyprath]

I’m like 100% sure Calum von moger bench presses in a straight vertical line, is it safe to do this without injury, maybe if you don’t lock out?

Would you say near the very top of the OHP range of motion uses the triceps more than shoulders?

[nightanole]

I’m like 100% sure Calum von moger bench presses in a straight vertical line, is it safe to do this without injury, maybe if you don’t lock out?

Would you say near the very top of the OHP range of motion uses the triceps more than shoulders?

You do realize Calum goes to snap city on a quarterly basis right? You do realize that even with the weird camera angles, he hits just above the nipple(is your shoulder just above the nipple?). On the bright side he uses my grip width for his bench (pinkies on the 810mm rings).

So i guess you could say you can bench injury free if you do a straight line using a neutral grip, if you are constantly hitting at or just above the nipple line. Its just sub optimal so you will need to use a bit less weight, vs learning a efficient bar bath. And yes you need to lock out, that prevents injury.

The trap diamond is responsible for the last 10% of the OHP, aka the shrug at the top. The tricep and chest is responsible for getting the bar momentum, because that is when they are the strongest. The tricep is completely out of gas towards the top, thats why its hard to lock out the elbows.

[Vyprath]

You do realize Calum goes to snap city on a quarterly basis right? You do realize that even with the weird camera angles, he hits just above the nipple(is your shoulder just above the nipple?). On the bright side he uses my grip width for his bench (pinkies on the 810mm rings).

So i guess you could say you can bench injury free if you do a straight line using a neutral grip, if you are constantly hitting at or just above the nipple line. Its just sub optimal so you will need to use a bit less weight, vs learning a efficient bar bath. And yes you need to lock out, that prevents injury.

The trap diamond is responsible for the last 10% of the OHP, aka the shrug at the top. The tricep and chest is responsible for getting the bar momentum, because that is when they are the strongest. The tricep is completely out of gas towards the top, thats why its hard to lock out the elbows.

By neutral grip do you just mean normal? Or a actual neutral grip (palms facing each other) which isn’t possible without a trap bar

[nightanole]

By neutral grip do you just mean normal? Or a actual neutral grip (palms facing each other) which isn’t possible without a trap bar

palms facing is "hammer grip". So yes i would say normal. "normal" is any finger touching the 810mm rings.

[CooolStoryBro]

The point of the SLDL is to fix your flexibility problem, it is not a heavy power move. At best you may be able to swap it for a romanian version (aka normal deadlift you slowly lower), but again it doesnt target the lack of hamstring flexibility.

Warmups are a bit of wild card. "2 sets of sub maximal weight that mimic the movement". So 2x20k or 2x30k could work. I would pick 2 sets of weight, do them for 10 reps, do them every workout for the entire cycle. medium day doesnt need to be 10% lighter etc, and you dont have to add reps as the weeks go on. Warmups are not there to grow muscle and progress on. Generally the final warmup set should be 50-75%ish of your light day working weight.

Ok Great. I will work on mobility then. One more question . It feels currently like my heavy workout seems very easy on some exercises. Would that be ok if I increase then by more than 10 % by the end of the cycle?

[nightanole]

Ok Great. I will work on mobility then. One more question . It feels currently like my heavy workout seems very easy on some exercises. Would that be ok if I increase then by more than 10 % by the end of the cycle?

10% is the min for the pattern to work. Some can double squat working weight in 3 cycles just with practice. So if you want to bump say 20%, then on light day of test week try for 1 set of 10 with the new weight, if you get it you are gold, else cut it back to 15% etc.

[Southgeorge]

Hey Night, I finished heavy day on 12 sets. Weighed myself this morning and somehow gained 2 pounds. 1st cycle of this I lost 10lbs. This cycle I might stay the same or lose a pound or two. Is it possible I'm doing a body recomp? I don't understand why I can't lose weight working out 3-5 days a week on 1,700 calories and I was doing a fast day on Friday and some cardio on off days. Only thing I can think of is do better on cardio but I was trying not to do too much to effect lifts. What should I do? I really want to get to 23 bmi in 2 months or so.

[nightanole]

Hey Night, I finished heavy day on 12 sets. Weighed myself this morning and somehow gained 2 pounds. 1st cycle of this I lost 10lbs. This cycle I might stay the same or lose a pound or two. Is it possible I'm doing a body recomp? I don't understand why I can't lose weight working out 3-5 days a week on 1,700 calories and I was doing a fast day on Friday and some cardio on off days. Only thing I can think of is do better on cardio but I was trying not to do too much to effect lifts. What should I do? I really want to get to 23 bmi in 2 months or so.

For the first 6 weeks of starting this program, your muscles will store a large amount of water as an emergency adaptation. This is when people "see results" in the first cycle. Really they just got puffy. By the end of the second cycle you will have adapted, and have your "true weight". So you might be carrying around 2-5lbs of addtional water weight, and that can go up drastically after say test day, just due to that threat response, and then drop during the week. You basically have a semi permanent pump.

You should be measuring, and taking side shots. Yes you may be recomping, in the form of developing bigger glycogen stores in the muscle to deal with the additional endurance they need. No you are not gaining muscle at the same rate as you are losing fat. You are not gaining 900 cal per pound muscle while losing 3500 cal per pound fat.

You can keep that 1700 cal deficit until performance starts to suffer (which should be pretty dam soon considering thats like 30% under my mins). At some point the under eating will just make for little to no weight loss and little to no muscle gains, and you will just be "adapted" and never change. We have plenty of those lurkers. "i ate 1200-1500 cals for 6 cycles, started with the bar and just added 10% per cycle, and i look the same, this programs sucks".

[Southgeorge]

For the first 6 weeks of starting this program, your muscles will store a large amount of water as an emergency adaptation. This is when people "see results" in the first cycle. Really they just got puffy. By the end of the second cycle you will have adapted, and have your "true weight". So you might be carrying around 2-5lbs of addtional water weight, and that can go up drastically after say test day, just due to that threat response, and then drop during the week. You basically have a semi permanent pump.

You should be measuring, and taking side shots. Yes you may be recomping, in the form of developing bigger glycogen stores in the muscle to deal with the additional endurance they need. No you are not gaining muscle at the same rate as you are losing fat. You are not gaining 900 cal per pound muscle while losing 3500 cal per pound fat.

You can keep that 1700 cal deficit until performance starts to suffer (which should be pretty dam soon considering thats like 30% under my mins). At some point the under eating will just make for little to no weight loss and little to no muscle gains, and you will just be "adapted" and never change. We have plenty of those lurkers. "i ate 1200-1500 cals for 6 cycles, started with the bar and just added 10% per cycle, and i look the same, this programs sucks".

I lost a lot of weight on my own before I started this. This is around my usual plateau. I think performance should be good with reintroducing and focusing on hitting carbs. The main reason I started this program was I heard it was good to get the lifts down while I get my bmi down to 23-24 then bulk for muscle. Anything I do to get down to 23-24 I'm going to be in caloric deficit and I thought you could only gain muscle in a surplus. That's why I'm just trying to hurry up and get to 23-24. But I'm not rushing/being unrealistic focusing on 1-2 lbs a week but a complete stall for 4-5 weeks has me confused.

[nightanole]

I lost a lot of weight on my own before I started this. This is around my usual plateau. I think performance should be good with reintroducing and focusing on hitting carbs. The main reason I started this program was I heard it was good to get the lifts down while I get my bmi down to 23-24 then bulk for muscle. Anything I do to get down to 23-24 I'm going to be in caloric deficit and I thought you could only gain muscle in a surplus. That's why I'm just trying to hurry up and get to 23-24. But I'm not rushing/being unrealistic focusing on 1-2 lbs a week but a complete stall for 4-5 weeks has me confused.

You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time till some point in the teens of body fat percentages. After than the goldilox time is over.

I would recomend increasing the cardio. If you are in the teens of body fat, i would have half the deficit come from food, and the other half from cardio. To put that into perspective, for a 175lb lifter, .5lbs weekly drop comes from allpro, and another .5lbs from the 3x10k jogs per week. So if you do allpro and the cardio, that is about 3500 cals for the week. As you can see that is incredibly hard to do with a maintenance (aka if it eat this i dont lose weight) diet of 2000-2500. That extra 3500 taken off of a 15k weekly budget is well over 20% to get an extra pound off.

I have plenty of people that just get on the recombent bikes(or stationary peddles at home) for 30-60min a day while watching tv/catching pokemon/doing raids/reading a book, etc. It was nicknamed "the oprah diet" in the 1990's, because thats all you did, sit on the bike and watch daytime television.

[Southgeorge]

You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time till some point in the teens of body fat percentages. After than the goldilox time is over.

I would recomend increasing the cardio. If you are in the teens of body fat, i would have half the deficit come from food, and the other half from cardio. To put that into perspective, for a 175lb lifter, .5lbs weekly drop comes from allpro, and another .5lbs from the 3x10k jogs per week. So if you do allpro and the cardio, that is about 3500 cals for the week. As you can see that is incredibly hard to do with a maintenance (aka if it eat this i dont lose weight) diet of 2000-2500. That extra 3500 taken off of a 15k weekly budget is well over 20% to get an extra pound off.

I have plenty of people that just get on the recombent bikes(or stationary peddles at home) for 30-60min a day while watching tv/catching pokemon/doing raids/reading a book, etc. It was nicknamed "the oprah diet" in the 1990's, because thats all you did, sit on the bike and watch daytime television.

I don't think I'm in teens yet. Maybe, only issue is stomach/hips. Yeah, that's what I was thinking got to do more cardio. I know it works and if it effects my lifts then so be it. I can focus on building muscle later, I'm just trying to keep as much as I got right now. I like the stationary bikes easier on joints than running especially when really out of shape.

[rlefebvr]

For the first 6 weeks of starting this program, your muscles will store a large amount of water as an emergency adaptation. This is when people "see results" in the first cycle. Really they just got puffy. By the end of the second cycle you will have adapted, and have your "true weight". So you might be carrying around 2-5lbs of addtional water weight, and that can go up drastically after say test day, just due to that threat response, and then drop during the week. You basically have a semi permanent pump.

Ahhhh, I miss those days... :-)

[nightanole]

Ahhhh, I miss those days... :-)

You ever try to shave after allpro before the shower? I couldnt reach my face due to the pump.

[GenerationZero]

Going on from my thread forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176841071

1. I initially thought it was 4 sets on all exercises, 2 warm up and 2 working sets. Only when I reread the FAQ I realised it's 2 sets for OHP, SLDL. Is this correct? Sounds like low volume?

2. So Monday start heavy, drop by 10% on Wednesday and again on Friday. Saber number of reps until the following week?

3. Do I increase the weight on the bar only once the 5th week is done and I didn't stall? Or could I increase the weight at the start of the week?

4. Planning on doing abs on rest days during the week. Anything else I could add? Don't like running though.

5. For the curls could I instead do seated dumbbell curls?

Thanks in advance