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  1. #7261
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waterhg View Post
    I've been running the program for 7 cycles, 4 on a cut then 3 on a slow bulk. Didn't quite get down to recommended body fat % because I wanted to increase muscle mass before cutting any further, estimate around 15-16%. Progression in lifts as follows:

    Squat: 45kg -> 80kg
    Bench: 37.5kg -> 60kg
    BOR: 32.5kg -> 50kg
    Arnold Press: 20kg -> 26kg
    SLDL: 37.5kg -> 65kg
    Curls: 25kg -> 30kg (switched to chins last 2 cycles)
    Calf Raise: 50kg -> 102.5kg

    I'm 41, 6'1" and 80kg, down from 86kg at start of the cut. Consider myself a 'hard gainer'. I was a bit inconsistent with lifting during the cut, but have been consistent during the bulk cycles.

    Since the last bump I'm really struggling with the extra 10% even on 8 rep week, particularly for squat and bench. For example, on squat I only managed 4-5 reps on each set. The last rep was almost to failure, I just feel like i've hit a wall regarding the weight on the bar. I passed the previous cycle 12 rep week without too much trouble, though the last few reps were slow.

    I know my lifts are a bit low but I was wondering whether it's worth switching to novice for the lifts I'm struggling with? Any other advice?

    Thanks
    Yup thats why we invented novice. Keep the weight as is and try novice, if you are still gassed we might need to reset you back to last cycles working weights.

    Its also time to start shopping for a new program. As you can tell , allpro is starting too get too fast, and soon wont have enough volume to push progression.

    You can also check out "auto regulated", i posted the link a few replies up.

    PS your arnold press is way to low. Yea it could be 5-10% lighter vs a OHP weight, but you are not even close to half your bench weight, let alone 2/3 of bench weight if you where good at the OHP.

  2. #7262
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup thats why we invented novice. Keep the weight as is and try novice, if you are still gassed we might need to reset you back to last cycles working weights.

    Its also time to start shopping for a new program. As you can tell , allpro is starting too get too fast, and soon wont have enough volume to push progression.

    You can also check out "auto regulated", i posted the link a few replies up.

    PS your arnold press is way to low. Yea it could be 5-10% lighter vs a OHP weight, but you are not even close to half your bench weight, let alone 2/3 of bench weight if you where good at the OHP.
    Thanks for the quick reply man. Also thanks for keeping this thread going, I've learnt a lot reading the posts here.

    I was hoping to stick with Allpro until my lifts were a bit higher, love the program. I'll give Novice a try and if that doesn't work will start looking elsewhere. I've got relatively decent cardio capacity as i used to train half marathons so don't think that's the issue.

    Regarding the OHP. I know it's low, I've failed the last two test weeks, hardly progressed at all the last two cycles. It's actually 28kg not 26, forgot the dumbell weight. Any recommendations for accessories to bring it up?

    Thanks again

  3. #7263
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    Originally Posted by waterhg View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply man. Also thanks for keeping this thread going, I've learnt a lot reading the posts here.

    I was hoping to stick with Allpro until my lifts were a bit higher, love the program. I'll give Novice a try and if that doesn't work will start looking elsewhere. I've got relatively decent cardio capacity as i used to train half marathons so don't think that's the issue.

    Regarding the OHP. I know it's low, I've failed the last two test weeks, hardly progressed at all the last two cycles. It's actually 28kg not 26, forgot the dumbell weight. Any recommendations for accessories to bring it up?

    Thanks again
    I usually tell people to try to push press their light day bench weight, as an OHP accessory. Not sure how to do that with the arnold press...

    Guess you could try 1 armed arnold press, 1 set per side, at the end of the workout, just to throw some volume at it.

  4. #7264
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    Is there an Intermediate version of AllPro? I am pretty sure I have came across it in the past, but can't seem to find it on this thread right now. Could someone please point me in the right direction? I'm not yet ready for Intermediate, but want to read up and know when I will be ready for it.

    Also, I've seen "Greyskull" mentioned in this thread. I can't seem to find a link for that lifting routine in the stickies nor in the first few pages of this forum. I'd like to read up on it as well, if someone wouldn't mind pointing me to that link.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by AbeFroman12; 05-30-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  5. #7265
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    Is there an Intermediate version of AllPro? I am pretty sure I have came across it in the past, but can't seem to find it on this thread right now. Could someone please point me in the right direction? I'm not yet ready for Intermediate, but want to read up and know when I will be ready for it.

    Also, I've seen "Greyskull" mentioned in this thread. I can't seem to find a link for that lifting routine in the stickies nor in the first few pages of this forum. I'd like to read up on it as well, if someone wouldn't mind pointing me to that link.

    Thanks!
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=allpro+intermediate

    https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...imer/70504728/
    https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/greyskull-lp/

  6. #7266
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    Thanks very much! Sorry - I didn't realize searching for AllPro Intermediate could be that simple. Appreciate it.

  7. #7267
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    Is there an Intermediate version of AllPro? I am pretty sure I have came across it in the past, but can't seem to find it on this thread right now. Could someone please point me in the right direction? I'm not yet ready for Intermediate, but want to read up and know when I will be ready for it.

    Also, I've seen "Greyskull" mentioned in this thread. I can't seem to find a link for that lifting routine in the stickies nor in the first few pages of this forum. I'd like to read up on it as well, if someone wouldn't mind pointing me to that link.

    Thanks!
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=135025731

    Intermediate routines are here.

    However, I do have an issue with the intermediate routines. They are a massive step away from the beginner routine, which I don’t want to do.

    With that in mind @nightanole, do you have any suggestions on how this beginner routine might be adapted to better suite an intermediate lifter without having to change routines entirely??? I’m able to do BW bench press for 13 strict reps. I still like full body 3 days per week. Could I ramp up the number of sets as well as reps for 4 weeks then back to 2 working sets on the 8 rep week?

    Example

    Week 1 - 6 working sets/body part, 8 reps per set (10% and 20% lighter on wed and third)
    Week 2 - 8 sets/body part, 9 reps per set
    Week 3 10 sets, 10 reps
    Week 4 11 sets, 11 reps
    Week 5 12 sets, 12 reps
    Week 6 - 6 sets, 8 reps

    Would something like this work? If not, any tweaks or suggestions?
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  8. #7268
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonedJordan View Post
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=135025731

    Intermediate routines are here.

    However, I do have an issue with the intermediate routines. They are a massive step away from the beginner routine, which I don’t want to do.

    With that in mind @nightanole, do you have any suggestions on how this beginner routine might be adapted to better suite an intermediate lifter without having to change routines entirely??? I’m able to do BW bench press for 13 strict reps. I still like full body 3 days per week. Could I ramp up the number of sets as well as reps for 4 weeks then back to 2 working sets on the 8 rep week?

    Example

    Week 1 - 6 working sets/body part, 8 reps per set (10% and 20% lighter on wed and third)
    Week 2 - 8 sets/body part, 9 reps per set
    Week 3 10 sets, 10 reps
    Week 4 11 sets, 11 reps
    Week 5 12 sets, 12 reps
    Week 6 - 6 sets, 8 reps

    Would something like this work? If not, any tweaks or suggestions?

    Odds are ill figure this out on the week end. But for some pointers.

    You need to figure out how to reduce the progression pattern so that you can work "up to" 33% per year, and down to 5-10% with some resets.
    And you need to figure out how to increase weekly volume 33-50%.


    Other than that, allpro "auto regulated" will get you started as a base.

  9. #7269
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Odds are ill figure this out on the week end. But for some pointers.

    You need to figure out how to reduce the progression pattern so that you can work "up to" 33% per year, and down to 5-10% with some resets.
    And you need to figure out how to increase weekly volume 33-50%.


    Other than that, allpro "auto regulated" will get you started as a base.
    Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I am totally lost in regards to altering the progression pattern and the resets. So you mean I am aiming for 5-10% progression in one year, when taking into account resets? Or I should be resetting 5-10% upon stalling?
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  10. #7270
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonedJordan View Post
    Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I am totally lost in regards to altering the progression pattern and the resets. So you mean I am aiming for 5-10% progression in one year, when taking into account resets? Or I should be resetting 5-10% upon stalling?
    A year of no resets at normal progression rate = 33% weight increase over a year

    A year with 3-4 resets at normal progression rate = 5-10% weight increase over a year


    On allpro if your heavy day was 100lbs, say 10 rep mid cycle. that is 1000lbs the first set, 1000lbs the second set, then next session 10% lighter etc. works out to be a weekly tonnage/volume of 2000+1800+1600= 5400. You now need 7182-8100 to push progression. now you know you can not do 3 heavies a week and survive, so you need to find a new way off getting in the volume. So think about that today.
    Last edited by nightanole; 05-31-2019 at 08:45 AM.

  11. #7271
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    NaN, truly thanks for this.

    I've read the last 40 pages to try and avoid asking and common questions.

    I started back in the gym for the first time in forever 2 weeks ago. Started following a mock machine based version of AP just get comfortable, feel the vibe, etc. Probably wasted 2 weeks of real work, but I wasnt comfortable just jumping into the free weight area (still aren't really). Tested my 10RM yesterday for all the lifts.

    33yo Male, 260 lbs., BF% of 30 based on the army measurements, BMI of 35.

    Fixed my diet eating "clean food" for about 2100 kcal before reading the last 40 pages. Gonna switch to 100g protein/fat and 200g carbs after reading. Still at a deficit, and in a zone where I wont need to be eating a surplus to gain muscle yet (from what I read).

    Looking to get to the goals of the program gradually and know I'll need to tweak the diet as needed once I drop my fat.

    I'll ask questions as neccessary.

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A year of no resets at normal progression rate = 33% weight increase over a year

    A year with 3-4 resets at normal progression rate = 5-10% weight increase over a year


    On allpro if your heavy day was 100lbs, say 10 rep mid cycle. that is 1000lbs the first set, 1000lbs the second set, then next session 10% lighter etc. works out to be a weekly tonnage/volume of 2000+1800+1600= 5400. You now need 7182-8100 to push progression. now you know you can not do 3 heavies a week and survive, so you need to find a new way off getting in the volume. So think about that today.
    So I spent some time thinking it over, but it because all the more complicated when looking at what you posted for auto regulated. Still aiming for the 24 total reps before progressing, so volume doesn’t seem to change? It also suggests the option of doing 3-4 workouts per week but in this post you said that 3 wouldn’t be sustainable.

    I am so lost right now haha.

    Just some background, I am both working 45 hours per week and doing a full time degree online, hence why I would like to stick to the 3 day full body.
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  13. #7273
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonedJordan View Post
    So I spent some time thinking it over, but it because all the more complicated when looking at what you posted for auto regulated. Still aiming for the 24 total reps before progressing, so volume doesn’t seem to change? It also suggests the option of doing 3-4 workouts per week but in this post you said that 3 wouldn’t be sustainable.

    I am so lost right now haha.

    Just some background, I am both working 45 hours per week and doing a full time degree online, hence why I would like to stick to the 3 day full body.
    I said 3 "heavies" a week would not be sustainable. If you actually try to run auto regulated, you will find the rep total drops by a good amount during the week as the fatigue builds up. You might start the week off with 10 and 7 for the first and second set, but by the end of the week it might be down to 8 and 5. The the following week you may end up start off at 11 and 8 if you can keep up with the normal 10% progression for the cycle.

    But anyway... You still need to increase your weekly volume in order to prevent a stall. So "auto regulated" can help with reducing the progression speed, and you can eye ball your deloads, but you still need to solve the volume problem. You may be able to solve this by doing 1-2 sets of a variant of the bench,row, and squat, after the auto regulated workout. If you did high bar for allpro, you might try low bar, or front squat, or zercher, or goblet, for example. Same with the row, you could do pendlay or kroc. Bench there are all sorts of options, even just standard bench with a dumb bell instead of a bar bell. Odds are the weight progression of these extra accessories would be based off of the progression rate of the allpro lifts. It could be as simple as 1-2 sets of a fixed rep range of 10 reps. So allpro squat could be 100lbs, and the accessory might be 80-90lbs depending on how gassed you are at the end of the workout, and your recovery.

  14. #7274
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    Mind taking a look at my current numbers to see if anything looks like it's way too heavy/light in comparison to the other lifts?

    Squat - 225
    Bench - 155
    Row - 110
    OH Press - 80
    SLDL - 185
    Standing Row - 90

    Any of those numbers look out of line with the rest?

    12 rep test tonight, wish me luck boys.
    Last edited by deebee83; 06-03-2019 at 11:33 AM.

  15. #7275
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    Originally Posted by deebee83 View Post
    Mind taking a look at my current numbers to see if anything looks like it's way too heavy/light in comparison to the other lifts?

    Squat - 225
    Bench - 155
    Row - 110
    OH Press - 80
    SLDL - 185
    Standing Row - 90

    Any of those numbers look out of line with the rest?

    12 rep test tonight, wish me luck boys.
    OHP is 15-20lbs light, same as the row. So you are a good bencher/squatter.

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    Thanks. I was thinking row was probably on the light side, and I don't think that's going to be a "pass" this round. OHP should be going up next cycle though.

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    Originally Posted by deebee83 View Post
    Thanks. I was thinking row was probably on the light side, and I don't think that's going to be a "pass" this round. OHP should be going up next cycle though.
    Row should be within +-20% of bench. OHP should be 60-75% "of" bench, and your bench is getting really close to double your OHP.

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    I'm having trouble keeping my back straight while doing SLDL. The video in the OP states you need to keep shoulder back and hips rolled forward to avoid injury.

    I'm not even going down much lower than my knees.

    Should I switch to good mornings or will the range of motion improve shortly?

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup thats why we invented novice. Keep the weight as is and try novice, if you are still gassed we might need to reset you back to last cycles working weights.

    Its also time to start shopping for a new program. As you can tell , allpro is starting too get too fast, and soon wont have enough volume to push progression.

    You can also check out "auto regulated", i posted the link a few replies up.

    PS your arnold press is way to low. Yea it could be 5-10% lighter vs a OHP weight, but you are not even close to half your bench weight, let alone 2/3 of bench weight if you where good at the OHP.
    Question on Novice. If doing 3 sets of 4 reps for week 1 of the cycle, that's only 12 rep total. The volume compared to previous cycles 2 sets of 12 on allpro standard is wayyy lower. I wouldn't hit similar volume until week 4 of the Novice cycle.

    Should I be bumping more than 10% when switching from Standard to Novice?

    Also, should I use the same rep pattern for medium and light days, or switch back to standard allpro for those?

    Oh and just for info, I checked my dumbbell weight again for the Arnold press and I've actually been lifting 29.5kg so all good (apart from the 2 cycle stall).

    Cheers

  20. #7280
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jgruber8 View Post
    I'm having trouble keeping my back straight while doing SLDL. The video in the OP states you need to keep shoulder back and hips rolled forward to avoid injury.

    I'm not even going down much lower than my knees.

    Should I switch to good mornings or will the range of motion improve shortly?
    Start with the standard deadlift lock out position
    slowly lower weight, bend knees as much as you like as long as it doesnt cause hip drop
    lower weight till hamstrings go tight, as soon as they go tight pull hard to engage the stretch reflex

    The weight at some point during the lift will be over toes or even farther, it will not be gliding up your shins/quads

    Most can not get much past the knees with a straight back when they first start doing the lift.
    By the end of the program, the good lifters will be able to get the bar in line with the top of the ankle, with a straight back.

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    Originally Posted by waterhg View Post
    Question on Novice. If doing 3 sets of 4 reps for week 1 of the cycle, that's only 12 rep total. The volume compared to previous cycles 2 sets of 12 on allpro standard is wayyy lower. I wouldn't hit similar volume until week 4 of the Novice cycle.

    Should I be bumping more than 10% when switching from Standard to Novice?

    Also, should I use the same rep pattern for medium and light days, or switch back to standard allpro for those?

    Oh and just for info, I checked my dumbbell weight again for the Arnold press and I've actually been lifting 29.5kg so all good (apart from the 2 cycle stall).

    Cheers
    With novice you are doing a deeper deload and much faster ramp up. Remember on novice you are doubling the volume start to finish.

    No you should not be bumping more than 10%. Just because its "only" 4 reps does not mean its not an arse kicker. Plenty of folk thought that you should be working at your 6 rep max instead of your 10 rep max when running novice (even me back in 2011). You still will be running around your 8-10 rep max.

    And yes 4-8 reps is every session. And its only the first 3 main lifts, OHP etc is still 8-12 2 sets

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    how bad would it be if I ran this on this scheduel : Wednesday/saturday/sunday because of time constraint? how bad would it Be for me to have 2 workout on consecutive days?
    Heres my logic:
    Im a roofer , from monday to friday I work 4am/6pm in blazing heat which makes going to the gym twice a week ( weekdays) a pain in the ass + im already dead by the time iI arrive to the gym.
    On the flip side im 100% fresh both saturday and sunday and absolutly love to train those days. I know it might not have enough time between my 2 workouts of the weekends, but isnt this the lesser poison compared to training when your already dead.
    I could also space out my 2 weekend workouts by doing something like saturday 7am and sunday 2pm for a 32hour gap between 2 workout
    side note: im currently on fierce 5 novice routine for 16weeks and its the first time im serious about lifting in my life Squat 260/bp 150/rdl 165 / ohp 105

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    Originally Posted by Blitzilla View Post
    how bad would it be if I ran this on this scheduel : Wednesday/saturday/sunday because of time constraint? how bad would it Be for me to have 2 workout on consecutive days?
    Heres my logic:
    Im a roofer , from monday to friday I work 4am/6pm in blazing heat which makes going to the gym twice a week ( weekdays) a pain in the ass + im already dead by the time iI arrive to the gym.
    On the flip side im 100% fresh both saturday and sunday and absolutly love to train those days. I know it might not have enough time between my 2 workouts of the weekends, but isnt this the lesser poison compared to training when your already dead.
    I could also space out my 2 weekend workouts by doing something like saturday 7am and sunday 2pm for a 32hour gap between 2 workout
    side note: im currently on fierce 5 novice routine for 16weeks and its the first time im serious about lifting in my life Squat 260/bp 150/rdl 165 / ohp 105
    That may work... It would be perfectly fine to do weds heavy, friday medium sat light. However having 2 full days off between heavy and medium, may reduce the fatigue buildup, so medium would not be "as" helpful.


    A better idea would be run "Heavy heavy". Which is 2 heavies a week, at least 72 hours apart. So you could do heavy weds, then heavy sat, then spend sunday doing cardio or GPP work. When doing the heavy heavy pattern long term, you want to do 3 sets of the first 3 main lifts, to make up for the weekly volume. "Test day" would still be 2 sets, 24 reps total.

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    That may work... It would be perfectly fine to do weds heavy, friday medium sat light. However having 2 full days off between heavy and medium, may reduce the fatigue buildup, so medium would not be "as" helpful.


    A better idea would be run "Heavy heavy". Which is 2 heavies a week, at least 72 hours apart. So you could do heavy weds, then heavy sat, then spend sunday doing cardio or GPP work. When doing the heavy heavy pattern long term, you want to do 3 sets of the first 3 main lifts, to make up for the weekly volume. "Test day" would still be 2 sets, 24 reps total.
    would it be bad to have the Light and Heavy workout on saturday/sunday?
    because the Heavy day during the week feels like when stuff gets hard ill fail more often. since im dead already

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    Originally Posted by Blitzilla View Post
    would it be bad to have the Light and Heavy workout on saturday/sunday?
    because the Heavy day during the week feels like when stuff gets hard ill fail more often. since im dead already
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1376160513


    Try auto regulated, if you stop each set at "slow rep" It should regulate to your daily energy levels, and you get in the 24 rep totals and pass on your high energy days, and maybe only get in 12-18 reps total on your half dead days, but you will be working close to failure every workout, just on your half dead days you will get there with fewer reps.


    Other than that i do not know what to tell you. If you butt up heavy and medium, you will have a much lower working weight in order to finish the workouts. I would much rather you run auto regulated to get in those 4-5 reps that are close to failure, using a heavier working weight.

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    Love this program - good stuff mate

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    Awesome Program

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    Great routine, been amazing for me so far.

    100+ pages of comments lmaooo

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    Hi,

    I'm about to go on to week 5 of cycle 1 but have a few questions about changing my routine.

    I really enjoy the routine but even at lower weights I am struggling with the higher reps. Would it be possible to alter the pattern in any way? For example:

    1. Instead of working from 8 -12 reps, going 6-10
    2- As above but 5-8 for 3 sets rather than 2 - this would have a test week every 4 weeks rather than 5 but would see you completing 24 reps before progress.

    Any thoughts? Thanks

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    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and
    Question re the above.... all pro says do all FOUR sets for X reps. I assume I should also be increasing the reps for Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls and Calf Raises along the same pattern too?

    Can anyone confirm?

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