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    More volume?

    I am stuck on Greyskull LP. In addition to the base program I do meadow rows on bench days, dumbbell rows on press days, and chins after every workout. One set of deadlifts a week was pointless for me after a while so i have been doing 5x3 on deads once a week. I have an Ivanko B-86, 350lbs of standard plates including four 1.25 lbs plates, and an R3. My working weight on squat is every plate I own, so I have been doing front and tempo squats for now until I can buy plates again. I saw an Alan Thrall video that said if stuck on 3x5/5x5 to do more volume. Thinking about this, want some opinions:

    Monday
    bench 2x5, 1x5+ (add 2.5 lbs every week)
    press 5x10
    row 5x10
    chins 5 ladders

    Tuesday
    squat 2x5, 1x5+ (add 5 lbs every week)
    deadlift 5x6
    abs 10 sets

    Thursday
    press 2x5, 1x5+ (add 2.5 lbs every week)
    bench 5x10
    row 2x8, 1x8+
    chins 5 ladders

    Friday
    deadlift 4x3, 1x3+ (add 5 lbs every week)
    squat 5x10
    abs 10 sets

    Reset 10% when fail to make min reps on first lift. The volume work will be a weight I can do all reps but is still challenging. I will be doing conditioning for 20 min or so on other 3 days. I usually do mile run (4:42 is my best time), 100lbs tire drags down the street in front of my house, heavy bag/jump rope work, or i just go ham with rubber ball slams and throws for conditioning.

    Basically, i am benching 1.5x3x5 reps a week with heavy weight right now. I want to go to 1x3x5 reps a week with heavy weight and 1x5x10 reps a week with light weight. Is trading 0.5x3x5 reps heavy weight for 1x5x10 reps light weight a significant increase in volume? I think so. But will it help me progress on my heavy lift day again? That is the question.

    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by grey27; 05-08-2020 at 07:27 PM.
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    Define stuck...
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Define stuck...
    Whenever I reset my upper body lifts I frequently do not set rep PRs. I feel I only reach a new weight whenever all the planets align.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    Whenever I reset my upper body lifts I frequently do not set rep PRs. I feel I only reach a new weight whenever all the planets align.
    Has it ever occurred your body doesn’t have adequate rest and recovery? Greyskull is a 3x a week program, you are doing it 2 days back to back twice a week, with extra exercises included.

    Just stick with Greyskull LP as written, with some lighter accessory work.

    Workout A
    Squats 2x5, 1x5+
    Bench 2x5, 1x5+
    Chin ups 2 sets AMRAP
    Abs 2 sets AMRAP

    Workout B
    Press 2x5, 1x5+
    Deadlift 2x5, 1x5+
    Dips 2 sets AMRAP
    Abs 2 sets AMRAP
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 05-08-2020 at 08:31 PM.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I am stuck on Greyskull LP. In addition to the base program I do meadow rows on bench days, dumbbell rows on press days, and chins after every workout. One set of deadlifts a week was pointless for me after a while so i have been doing 5x3 on deads once a week. I have an Ivanko B-86, 350lbs of standard plates including four 1.25 lbs plates, and an R3. My working weight on squat is every plate I own, so I have been doing front and tempo squats for now until I can buy plates again. I saw an Alan Thrall video that said if stuck on 3x5/5x5 to do more volume. Thinking about this, want some opinions:

    Monday
    bench 2x5, 1x5+ (add 2.5 lbs every week)
    press 5x10
    row 5x10
    chins 5 ladders

    Tuesday
    squat 2x5, 1x5+ (add 5 lbs every week)
    deadlift 5x6
    abs 10 sets

    Thursday
    press 2x5, 1x5+ (add 2.5 lbs every week)
    bench 5x10
    row 2x8, 1x8+
    chins 5 ladders

    Friday
    deadlift 4x3, 1x3+ (add 5 lbs every week)
    squat 5x10
    abs 10 sets

    Reset 10% when fail to make min reps on first lift. The volume work will be a weight I can do all reps but is still challenging. I will be doing conditioning for 20 min or so on other 3 days. I usually do mile run (4:42 is my best time), 100lbs tire drags down the street in front of my house, heavy bag/jump rope work, or i just go ham with rubber ball slams and throws for conditioning.

    Basically, i am benching 1.5x3x5 reps a week with heavy weight right now. I want to go to 1x3x5 reps a week with heavy weight and 1x5x10 reps a week with light weight. Is trading 0.5x3x5 reps heavy weight for 1x5x10 reps light weight a significant increase in volume? I think so. But will it help me progress on my heavy lift day again? That is the question.

    Thanks for reading.
    Why not just run it like 531?

    Day1
    Squat 3x5
    Deadlift 5x10
    Ghr 5x10

    Day 2
    Bench 3x5
    Press 5x10
    Row 5x10

    Day 3
    Deadlift 3x5
    Squat 5x10
    Ghr 5x10

    Day 4
    Press 3x5
    Bench 5x10
    Row 5x10


    That way everything 2x a week. You get strength and volume.

    Just do normal 3x5 loading
    For 5x10 use 50-70% of 1RM estimate
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    Originally Posted by Magomed1 View Post
    Why not just run it like 531?

    Day1
    Squat 3x5
    Deadlift 5x10
    Ghr 5x10

    Day 2
    Bench 3x5
    Press 5x10
    Row 5x10

    Day 3
    Deadlift 3x5
    Squat 5x10
    Ghr 5x10

    Day 4
    Press 3x5
    Bench 5x10
    Row 5x10


    That way everything 2x a week. You get strength and volume.

    Just do normal 3x5 loading
    For 5x10 use 50-70% of 1RM estimate
    Probably a good idea to change 1x5+ to just 1x5 whenever doing a second volume exercise after, thanks. Worth a try.
    Last edited by grey27; 05-09-2020 at 06:01 AM.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Has it ever occurred your body doesn’t have adequate rest and recovery? Greyskull is a 3x a week program, you are doing it 2 days back to back twice a week, with extra exercises included.

    Just stick with Greyskull LP as written, with some lighter accessory work.

    Workout A
    Squats 2x5, 1x5+
    Bench 2x5, 1x5+
    Chin ups 2 sets AMRAP
    Abs 2 sets AMRAP

    Workout B
    Press 2x5, 1x5+
    Deadlift 2x5, 1x5+
    Dips 2 sets AMRAP
    Abs 2 sets AMRAP
    Worth a try, but i like that alan guy and the volume work is something different so i will try magomeds idea first.
    Last edited by grey27; 05-09-2020 at 06:03 AM.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    Worth a try, but i like that alan guy and the volume work is something different so i will try magomeds idea first.
    Keep in mind what he gave you is essential 5/3/1 Boring but big, which for a more intermediate level lifter, and is hypertrophy based, not strength based. Your lifts will still slow down and probably will stall before long.

    I get it, everyone wants as much muscle gain in as little time as possible. But training is a lifelong pursuit, a marathon. It isn’t a sprint. Good luck with whatever you choose.

    Edit: if you are serious about going with that plan, I would not recommend deadlifts off the floor for 5x10, and you won’t need glute ham raises if you’re squatting and deadlifting so much, the lower back can only take so much. Do some Ab work, like reverse crunches instead.
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 05-09-2020 at 12:45 PM.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Keep in mind what he gave you is essential 5/3/1 Boring but big, which for a more intermediate level lifter, and is hypertrophy based, not strength based. Your lifts will still slow down and probably will stall before long.

    I get it, everyone wants as much muscle gain in as little time as possible. But training is a lifelong pursuit, a marathon. It isn’t a sprint. Good luck with whatever you choose.

    Slow progress is progress still.
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    What is your primary goal with this ?
    Strength or hypertrophy(muscle building)?
    What you have posted looks more of a bodybuilding type protocol sets and reps wise but strength oriented with the exercise selection.
    If your bodybuilding you need to get the most out of each movement and set with good intensity.
    If your just moving the weight from point A to point B just to get ten reps thats not the best way inhibit muscle growth.
    You have to challenge the muscle every set where you can focus and feel the muscle working.
    Higher volume can be ok if you keep rest periods shorter or lower volume with a higher intensity doing thing like possibly full reps to partials,drop sets going at one weight then taking plates off continuing the set two or three drops,pre exhaust super sets like leg extensions then right to squatting.There are many ways to intensify your sets these are just a few.
    With limited plates a max strength protocol if thats what your after may not work the best for you.
    You could do like pause reps on your lifts or focus on rep maxes instead of a single max.
    Good luck.
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    My goal is to eventually do strongman type stuff.
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    Greyskull LP is a beginner program. With a 350 squat and with your linear progression stuck, you should be looking at intermediate programs with periodization.

    Volume is effective, but only if you can recover from that volume (Mike T, Reactive Training Systems). Lifting your max every session, 4 times a week, every week, is not giving yourself enough recovery. You need more submaximal work that isn't so hard on the body.

    Juggernaut has a lot of volume at submaximal work. It should hold you over for a couple of weeks until you can get more plates.

    What about your calorie and protein intake?
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Greyskull LP is a beginner program. With a 350 squat and with your linear progression stuck, you should be looking at intermediate programs with periodization.

    Volume is effective, but only if you can recover from that volume (Mike T, Reactive Training Systems). Lifting your max every session, 4 times a week, every week, is not giving yourself enough recovery. You need more submaximal work that isn't so hard on the body.

    Juggernaut has a lot of volume at submaximal work. It should hold you over for a couple of weeks until you can get more plates.

    What about your calorie and protein intake?
    He said his upper body lifts are stalling, so hypothetically, he could make progress on LP if he had more weight.

    Either or, instead of bastardizing greyskull (I like it a lot as well) just get on a proper 4 day upper/lower split
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Greyskull LP is a beginner program. With a 350 squat and with your linear progression stuck, you should be looking at intermediate programs with periodization.

    Volume is effective, but only if you can recover from that volume (Mike T, Reactive Training Systems). Lifting your max every session, 4 times a week, every week, is not giving yourself enough recovery. You need more submaximal work that isn't so hard on the body.

    Juggernaut has a lot of volume at submaximal work. It should hold you over for a couple of weeks until you can get more plates.

    What about your calorie and protein intake?
    I am 5'11" and 183lbs. I do not track macros precisely but i do make an effort to be consistent. I have a made up point system where i roughly count carbs, protein, and fat. I do a low fat diet.

    Today for breakfast i had 2 eggs, 2 slices turkey bacon, handfull of raw spinach, cup of acai juice.
    For lunch i had a 1/3 lbs cheeseburger and 2 handfulls of butternut squash.
    For dinner i had half of a salmon filet from costco and a handfull of yellow squash/zuccinni and a handfull of brussel sprouts.
    For snacks i had 4 pieces of venison jerky and a fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey powder.

    That is a pretty typical day of eating for me.
    Last edited by grey27; 05-09-2020 at 07:25 PM.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I am 5'11" and 183lbs. I do not track macros precisely but i do make an effort to be consistent. I have a made up point system where i roughly count carbs, protein, and fat. I do a low fat diet. In terms i can easily explain, the most fatty foods i ever eat in a day is a slice of cheese and a half handfull of nuts or seeds in the shell. I grow my own vegetables and eat vegetables and meat every meal.

    Today for breakfast i had 2 eggs, 2 slices turkey bacon, handfull of raw spinach, cup of acai juice.
    For lunch i had a 1/3 lbs cheeseburger and 2 handfulls of butternut squash.
    For dinner i had half of a salmon filet from costco and a handfull of yellow squash/zuccinni and a handfull of brussel sprouts.
    For snacks i had 4 pieces of venison jerky and a fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey powder.

    That is a pretty typical day of eating for me.
    Diet sounds pretty solid.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I am 5'11" and 183lbs. I do not track macros precisely but i do make an effort to be consistent. I have a made up point system where i roughly count carbs, protein, and fat. I do a low fat diet. About half of my carbs come from fruit or vegetables and other half from bread usually. In terms i can easily explain, the most fatty foods i ever eat in a day is a slice of cheese and a half handfull of nuts or seeds in the shell. I grow my own vegetables and eat vegetables and meat every meal.

    Today for breakfast i had 2 eggs, 2 slices turkey bacon, handfull of raw spinach, cup of acai juice.
    For lunch i had a 1/3 lbs cheeseburger and 2 handfulls of butternut squash.
    For dinner i had half of a salmon filet from costco and a handfull of yellow squash/zuccinni and a handfull of brussel sprouts.
    For snacks i had 4 pieces of venison jerky and a fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey powder.

    That is a pretty typical day of eating for me.
    Unless you're on a cut you should consider adding some substance to your breakfast (toast, oats, etc.) and dinner (potatoes, rice, pasta, etc.).
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    He said his upper body lifts are stalling, so hypothetically, he could make progress on LP if he had more weight.

    Either or, instead of bastardizing greyskull (I like it a lot as well) just get on a proper 4 day upper/lower split
    Just looking at john sheaffer, i do not respect the guy. If i were to pass him in the grocery aisle, i would bump into him while passing him, despite coronavirus one way restrictions. I think he is a punk. His website is trash and doesnt work. I think self help gurus are despicable and appeal only to the most pathetic of "males" in our society. His tattoos are laughable. He is an obvious tryhard. His book showing him and js small group of friends working out in the snow is as apparent and fragile as his ego. His youtube videos smoking a cigar and giving life advice in a crappy looking room and grainy video is laughable. But dang it , greyskull is a heck of a program. I applaud the man and hate myself for not trying it sooner.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Unless you're on a cut you should consider adding some substance to your breakfast (toast, oats, etc.) and dinner (potatoes, rice, pasta, etc.).
    I feel the fruit, bun on cheeseburger, and butternut squash has plenty of carbs. That is like 6 servings of carbs. Is that not enough?
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I feel the fruit, bun on cheeseburger, and butternut squash has plenty of carbs. That is like 6 servings of carbs. Is that not enough?
    Well you're stalled and I literally got hungry seeing the lack of anything filling (to me) in your breakfast, dinner and snack, along with the side of squash instead of fries with your burger... putting on a little weight might be an easier fix than upending your whole routine/volume to get past the stall - but it's your diet, so your choice on what direction you want to try.

    You might want to calculate out your cals/carbs rather than viewing them as servings or "plenty of carbs", which will give you a better idea of how much or little your daily intake is.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I feel the fruit, bun on cheeseburger, and butternut squash has plenty of carbs. That is like 6 servings of carbs. Is that not enough?
    For someone who doesn't track macros, you're oddly specific about what you eat (1/3 of a cheeseburger??).
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    For someone who doesn't track macros, you're oddly specific about what you eat (1/3 of a cheeseburger??).
    Frozen hamburger patties, preweighed preformed meat my man, have you tried getting hamburger meat from the grocery store lately?
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Well you're stalled and I literally got hungry seeing the lack of anything filling (to me) in your breakfast, dinner and snack, along with the side of squash instead of fries with your burger... putting on a little weight might be an easier fix than upending your whole routine/volume to get past the stall - but it's your diet, so your choice on what direction you want to try.

    You might want to calculate out your cals/carbs rather than viewing them as servings or "plenty of carbs", which will give you a better idea of how much or little your daily intake is.
    Everytime i see your username, i think of doug flutie in 1984. I will est an entire potato in you honor tomorrow.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    Everytime i see your username, i think of doug flutie in 1984. I will est an entire potato in you honor tomorrow.
    Eat 3, plus your cheeseburger will thank you if you put some fries next to it (bake them if you need to).
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I am 5'11" and 183lbs. I do not track macros precisely but i do make an effort to be consistent. I have a made up point system where i roughly count carbs, protein, and fat. I do a low fat diet.

    Today for breakfast i had 2 eggs, 2 slices turkey bacon, handfull of raw spinach, cup of acai juice.
    For lunch i had a 1/3 lbs cheeseburger and 2 handfulls of butternut squash.
    For dinner i had half of a salmon filet from costco and a handfull of yellow squash/zuccinni and a handfull of brussel sprouts.
    For snacks i had 4 pieces of venison jerky and a fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey powder.

    That is a pretty typical day of eating for me.
    I'd add some more protein, cut down the carbs a bit and replace those calories with more fat. But I'm no expert. You need to figure out what works for you, not what works for someone else. It's like shooting a shotgun. There are 3 different schools to hitting a moving target. Sustained lead, Swing through, and Point and shoot. I'm Point and shoot. When a flock of ducks comes by I do point and shoot. I've already picked out another target after the first shot and am switching my aim to it. I'm picking out a 2nd bird before the pellets from my first shot even get to the bird. I don't know if I hit the first bird. My dog Drake (rest in peace) is watching everything. He'll go out and pick up the birds I drop. There is a 3rd shot too. I've dropped 3 ducks, and only saw the 3rd duck get hit. My dog saw #1 and #2.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    Frozen hamburger patties, preweighed preformed meat my man, have you tried getting hamburger meat from the grocery store lately?
    One... third....
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    Thread's getting a bit frayed

    OP, step 1: Track your macros. Calculate your tdee. Are you in a surplus or deficit? How much protein/carbs/fat do you eat? You don't have to weigh your food, but you should be specific about it.

    Step 2: Increase calories 300-500 and see what that does for 2-4 weeks on your current program.

    Step 3: Reassess after 2-4 weeks.
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    I increased protein recently. I will bump up carbs and try to gain 1 to 2 pounds next month and see what happens. I like my program and want to stick with it forever if possible.
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    Originally Posted by grey27 View Post
    I saw an Alan Thrall video that said if stuck on 3x5/5x5 to do more volume. Thinking about this, want some opinions:
    I like Alan Thrall. I think his videos are entertaining. I wouldn't follow his recommendation for additional volume unless I was using the same 'supplement' stack that he is using. To break a plateau of 3x5 or 5x5, I would try 3x3 or 5x3 for 4 to 8 weeks first. If that didn't work I would try 3x8 or 5x8.
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    I like Alan Thrall. I think his videos are entertaining. I wouldn't follow his recommendation for additional volume unless I was using the same 'supplement' stack that he is using. To break a plateau of 3x5 or 5x5, I would try 3x3 or 5x3 for 4 to 8 weeks first. If that didn't work I would try 3x8 or 5x8.
    I am not 100% sure what you mean by supplement stack, but if you mean PED's I don't think he uses any.
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    Originally Posted by philibusters View Post
    I am not 100% sure what you mean by supplement stack, but if you mean PED's I don't think he uses any.
    I agree, I doubt he uses juice.
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