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  1. #6271
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BaseJumper View Post
    Great!
    I will read the whole book to get a more detailed understanding. But will sure check this plugin.

    Do you think returning to all pro's routine down in the road is something possible or is it just a beginners routine?
    I had real good results with it and it breaks my heart to leave it behind.
    Sorry, you cant go back again.

    If an intermediate/advanced lifter runs a beginner routine, there is a high risk of injury and not enough volume.

    Intermediates can not handle 10% bumps per month (or even per quarter) and you will need 50-100% more weekly volume, and you just cant get that with straight sets and straight weight. 5 sets of 5 at 80% of 1rm 3x a week, even without progression, will put an intermediate lifter in the hospital within 6 weeks.


    You can however make an intermediate routine using the allpro lifts and using intermediate patterns. Greyskull is an advanced novice/early intermediate pattern you should be able to use for 2-3 years after you stop being able to bump 5% per month.

    If you dont want to run greyskull LP, jason blaha(writer of ICF5x5) has an "linear hypertrophy" program that programmed like allpro. Its meso is designed so that you "should" never miss a rep if you picked the weights correctly, and you spend a few weeks in the 10,8, and 5 rep range, and then test your maxes for the next meso. The Arse kicker weeks are the "X5%" weeks which calculate out to be RPE 10 on the final set. But then after Arse kicker week "stress" goes down 5% and volume goes down 20% (because you are working much closer to 1rm), and then another Arse kicker week shows up.
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  2. #6272
    Lean mean cutting machine BaseJumper's Avatar
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    I would love if greyskull LP worked for 3 years.
    Really looking forward for it.
    My whey or the highway!

    October 08th 2017
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  3. #6273
    Registered User FoxHound99's Avatar
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    I forgot to ask earlier. Besides finishing all 12 reps on heavy day, does completing them on medium/light day count towards passing the cycle as well?
    if you stall on 11 on medium day, but finished 12 on heavy can you still bump weights on next cycle?
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  4. #6274
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    Hi, I started the workout earlier this year and found the progression to be too fast for me. I switched to an auto regulated version and have been very happy except for one recurring problem. The overhead press keeps tweaking what I think is my upper trap muscle. It can happen on either side and takes anywhere from 3 days to over a week for the pain to go away. The first day or 2, the pain is almost unbearable. This isn't a new problem, it has been happening for years and can happen for almost no reason at all, often in my sleep. About 2 months ago, I started to increase the weights a little quicker than the previous 6 months and that seems to make it happen more often and more severely. Can anyone offer any suggestions what is going on and what I might do about it?
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  5. #6275
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FoxHound99 View Post
    I forgot to ask earlier. Besides finishing all 12 reps on heavy day, does completing them on medium/light day count towards passing the cycle as well?
    if you stall on 11 on medium day, but finished 12 on heavy can you still bump weights on next cycle?
    Feel free to stop a set short if you need to on any day but heavy day week 5, its the only one that counts. The rest of the days are providing volume, and its better to stop short vs banging out 2-3 sloppy reps.
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  6. #6276
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bikerider43 View Post
    Hi, I started the workout earlier this year and found the progression to be too fast for me. I switched to an auto regulated version and have been very happy except for one recurring problem. The overhead press keeps tweaking what I think is my upper trap muscle. It can happen on either side and takes anywhere from 3 days to over a week for the pain to go away. The first day or 2, the pain is almost unbearable. This isn't a new problem, it has been happening for years and can happen for almost no reason at all, often in my sleep. About 2 months ago, I started to increase the weights a little quicker than the previous 6 months and that seems to make it happen more often and more severely. Can anyone offer any suggestions what is going on and what I might do about it?
    There is 2 forms to the OHP, the thumbs over grip that provides alot of tension at the bottom, and the thumbs under false grip, which provides a lot more mobility. I have to use tumbs under due to my wirsts being in a case several times in my lift.

    the art of manliness and jasonblahafitness have demonstrations for both on youtube.

    Lastly you can always do the seated arnold press, it would provide the most flexible bar path to prevent impingement.
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  7. #6277
    Registered User Bikerider43's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    There is 2 forms to the OHP, the thumbs over grip that provides alot of tension at the bottom, and the thumbs under false grip, which provides a lot more mobility. I have to use tumbs under due to my wirsts being in a case several times in my lift.

    the art of manliness and jasonblahafitness have demonstrations for both on youtube.

    Lastly you can always do the seated arnold press, it would provide the most flexible bar path to prevent impingement.

    I've been using the thumbs under grip. Wasn't aware there was another but I will watch and try the alternatives. When I'm having pain, should I continue with the workout and just skip OHP or should I use a lower weight? I'm thinking I might start seeing a PT to work on proper form. I'm also wondering if I should see a doctor to rule out any other conditions. I don't really think anything is wrong with me terribly. I was in bad shape when I started and all other areas are doing really well.
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  8. #6278
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bikerider43 View Post
    I've been using the thumbs under grip. Wasn't aware there was another but I will watch and try the alternatives. When I'm having pain, should I continue with the workout and just skip OHP or should I use a lower weight? I'm thinking I might start seeing a PT to work on proper form. I'm also wondering if I should see a doctor to rule out any other conditions. I don't really think anything is wrong with me terribly. I was in bad shape when I started and all other areas are doing really well.
    Rule of thumb is do 2 warmups, if pain increases from warmup 1 to warmup 2, you dont do that lift. The shoulder is a floating joint, so i have no clue what is wrong. lastly the elbow needs to be directly under the wrist/bar at the bottom of the lift when you start to push up, else you will be pushing at an angle which will put stress on connective tissue.
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  9. #6279
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Rule of thumb is do 2 warmups, if pain increases from warmup 1 to warmup 2, you dont do that lift. The shoulder is a floating joint, so i have no clue what is wrong. lastly the elbow needs to be directly under the wrist/bar at the bottom of the lift when you start to push up, else you will be pushing at an angle which will put stress on connective tissue.
    When I started, everything hurt. I began with the 15 lb bar only and I'm now up to BW on squats and about 60% of BW on bench press. Slow progress, but I'm in no rush. Most of my issues were just from 20 years of inactivity I suspect. The shoulders are different for me though. When I'm stressed, I tend to lift my shoulders. It's the reason why I sold my street bike a couple years ago. I think the answer is to keep at it. The current rough spot could be more stress related than weight related. Thanks for the answers. I don't post much, but I read the thread daily.
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  10. #6280
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    Allpro Beginner Routine

    Hi,

    I am a newbie to bodybuilding, and i am going to start my trainimg with the Allpro beginner program. After reading all the notes i am unsure if to split the below routine into 3 and do over 3 days, or to repeat the whole routine 3 days a week.

    Look forward to your reply.

    Rocketman46


    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises
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  11. #6281
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rockman46 View Post
    Hi,

    I am a newbie to bodybuilding, and i am going to start my trainimg with the Allpro beginner program. After reading all the notes i am unsure if to split the below routine into 3 and do over 3 days, or to repeat the whole routine 3 days a week.

    Look forward to your reply.

    Rocketman46


    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises
    Every exercise gets done every workout for 2 sets, you workout 3 days a week. The first day of the week is your heavy day, 2nd day is 10% lighter, 3rd day is 20% lighter.
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  12. #6282
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    So I'm running autoregulated and my bench and OHP are the only lifts that aren't consistently increasing. I am cutting so I'm not expecting huge strength increases, but if all my lifts were stalled, that would be different. My sticking point on both lifts is the second half of the rep, not the initial push off the starting point, which leads me to believe my triceps might need accessory work. As far as accessory movements, would it be a good idea to replace the paused close grip bench I'm currently doing with a tricep isolation movement instead? I'm also doing lat pulldowns.

    Current working weights:

    Squat - 275
    Bench - 125 (pathetic)
    Bent over row - 165
    OHP - 80
    SLDL - 225
    Upright row - 105
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  13. #6283
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by daveminnich View Post
    So I'm running autoregulated and my bench and OHP are the only lifts that aren't consistently increasing. I am cutting so I'm not expecting huge strength increases, but if all my lifts were stalled, that would be different. My sticking point on both lifts is the second half of the rep, not the initial push off the starting point, which leads me to believe my triceps might need accessory work. As far as accessory movements, would it be a good idea to replace the paused close grip bench I'm currently doing with a tricep isolation movement instead? I'm also doing lat pulldowns.

    Current working weights:

    Squat - 275
    Bench - 125 (pathetic)
    Bent over row - 165
    OHP - 80
    SLDL - 225
    Upright row - 105
    Well you could have 1 of 2 problems...

    If you cant get enough momentum/explosive power off the check, you will stall on the way up. That is still a chest weakness or a form issue.

    However If you think you still have good speed say 4" off the chest, then yes its a tricep issue. In that case the accessory is the behind the head skull crusher with a lot of elbow movement would work. The more the elbow travels from the shoulder to above the eye line, the more the long head gets worked, which is some what neglected cosmetically in the flat bench. The other option is a narrow is decline bench. You would want angle so that your elbow is open 90 degrees at the half rom point, this is normally 30-45 degrees on an adjustable bench.

    Id stop the pause bench and replace it with the decline or skull crusher for a few weeks and see if you get any improvement. You can use the same rep pattern as the pause bench, but zero pausing.
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  14. #6284
    Registered User polivoks's Avatar
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    Would it be helpful if we add to a routine as accessorie
    or on off days a kettlebell swings or some other triple extension exercise?
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  15. #6285
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by polivoks View Post
    Would it be helpful if we add to a routine as accessorie
    or on off days a kettlebell swings or some other triple extension exercise?
    You can pretty much go nuts with an accessory if its done directly after the core workout. You have to be a bit more careful doing them on off days, because it may rob recovery or cause cns fatigue. So rule of thumb, if it makes any of the first 3 lifts harder during the week(bench/row/squat) dont do it as an accessory.

    But hey if you want to skip calf work and swing some pood, go for it
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  16. #6286
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    Hi nightanole ,

    anychance you or someone could help me please, earlier back in this routine allpro stated its best to aim for a 40/40/20 diet when on the routine.
    looking later on in the thread you suggested that :

    Nutrition calculators are never right. If you want to play with them, you would be running at an activity factor of 1.2 if all you do is this program and some cardio. The base nutrition i recommend when starting the program is 100 grams of fats/protein and 200-300 grams of carbs, it ends up to being a little over 2000 cals. If you are above 18% and not dropping a pound a week using those macros, you are going to need some cardio, since i dont recommend going below that as a male.

    so now Im wondering what i should be aiming for in regards to planning out my diet,
    to give you an idea if you wouldnt mind looking at I have based it roughly on the above aiming for the 2100 cal area.

    Im currently 202lb , 6ft , 42 yrs of age. slightly over weight mainly around the tummy area.

    thanks alot for any help, I have posted in the Nutrition section also.
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    Last edited by brettttt; 10-10-2018 at 01:32 AM.
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  17. #6287
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by brettttt View Post
    Hi nightanole ,

    anychance you or someone could help me please, earlier back in this routine allpro stated its best to aim for a 40/40/20 diet when on the routine.
    looking later on in the thread you suggested that :

    Nutrition calculators are never right. If you want to play with them, you would be running at an activity factor of 1.2 if all you do is this program and some cardio. The base nutrition i recommend when starting the program is 100 grams of fats/protein and 200-300 grams of carbs, it ends up to being a little over 2000 cals. If you are above 18% and not dropping a pound a week using those macros, you are going to need some cardio, since i dont recommend going below that as a male.

    so now Im wondering what i should be aiming for in regards to planning out my diet,
    to give you an idea if you wouldnt mind looking at I have based it roughly on the above aiming for the 2100 cal area.

    Im currently 202lb , 6ft , 42 yrs of age. slightly over weight mainly around the tummy area.

    thanks alot for any help, I have posted in the Nutrition section also.

    Starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Performance will suffer if you go much below any of those. Goal on this program is to have a bmi of 24 @13%, for most that means getting to a bmi of 23 as quickly as possible and then slow bulk to bmi 25, then a mini cut the last cycle.


    And yes the fat seems "high" and yes its because people like you. Lets play the game of "find intentional non nut fat". Ive had kids that just wanted to do a shot of coconut shot of olive, some peanut butter, and call is good and just yolo'd the rest with protein powder and non fat carbs...


    Im sorry but you are on a bro diet, and people tend to snap on them. It technically works, but this isnt a lifestyle change diet, bro diets are normally only ran a few months a year, by body builders who are CUTTING on 3000-4000 cals per day, before a show/meet/ photo shoot.
    Last edited by nightanole; 10-10-2018 at 05:28 AM.
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    Registered User brettttt's Avatar
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    ok thank you for you're response.

    the nuts oils Ive just added to see if I can get my fat levels up, dont get me wrong I'm also eating Lean red meats and so on but this was just a mock up, to see if i was to add the nut oils into my morning shake what figures I would achieve.


    Ok will take your advice on board regarding the figures in relation to the bmi, thanks once again.

    bro
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    Im on autoregulated for past month or so and doing boxed squats 80kg 3 sets for several months now,
    my first set is usually 8 reps depending on day.
    Few days ago tried doing regular no-box squats and barely could do 5 in first set and now have DOMS on my hams and quads.
    Was wondering is this normal and for how long should i continue squating boxed?
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  20. #6290
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by polivoks View Post
    Im on autoregulated for past month or so and doing boxed squats 80kg 3 sets for several months now,
    my first set is usually 8 reps depending on day.
    Few days ago tried doing regular no-box squats and barely could do 5 in first set and now have DOMS on my hams and quads.
    Was wondering is this normal and for how long should i continue squating boxed?
    Any change in variation of the lift will result in DOMS, no matter how long you have been lifting. On top of that Squats is very "eccentric" and that causes 90% of DOMS from a change. You dont really get DOMS from real deadlifts if you do them right, because there is no "lengthening the muscle under load", you just get fatigued as hell.

    And yes you will be 10-15% weaker on the non box squat for a couple of weeks, because you are out of practice.
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    Sweet thanks
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    Registered User polivoks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Any change in variation of the lift will result in DOMS, no matter how long you have been lifting. On top of that Squats is very "eccentric" and that causes 90% of DOMS from a change. You dont really get DOMS from real deadlifts if you do them right, because there is no "lengthening the muscle under load", you just get fatigued as hell.

    And yes you will be 10-15% weaker on the non box squat for a couple of weeks, because you are out of practice.
    Would it be then better if i continue boxed till hitting 1.5 bodyweight goal (im currently round 80kg and squating same)
    Or do i lower weight to 70kg and start doing regular squats?

    PS - problem i have is that with no-box squat with warmup only barbell and with 40kg i can control to get to stop in "hole" in line with my knees or bit below knee.. but when i place 80kg i mostly stop with my ass above the knees position as i have a hard time controlling the "break point" and feel that barbell will go over my neck in return position if i go below knee.. or that i will fall on my back if i go "ass to grass"..
    Last edited by polivoks; 10-15-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post

    First the ez bar is not recomended since it deloads the bicep and loads the forearm
    on the curling youtube video in this thread, it was suggested to use a Ez bar due to the hand being in a more natural postion when gripping the bar.
    Is this not the case and would you suggest reverting back to a straight bar when doing curls as Ive been using a Ez bar ?

    thanks
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    Originally Posted by brettttt View Post
    on the curling youtube video in this thread, it was suggested to use a Ez bar due to the hand being in a more natural postion when gripping the bar.
    Is this not the case and would you suggest reverting back to a straight bar when doing curls as Ive been using a Ez bar ?

    thanks
    Pro tip, dont look at any videos from OP, im surprised any of them still work.

    EZ bar uses more forearm, straight bar uses more bicep. You pick. You could also do supenation curls or even chinups. In the great scheme of things it really doesnt matter, but if you biceps are growing too slow, you dont want the ez-bar. if you arms look like popeye the sailor man, you dont want the ez bar. If you can fit your arm up to the elbow into a soup can, you want the ez bar.
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    Originally Posted by polivoks View Post
    Would it be then better if i continue boxed till hitting 1.5 bodyweight goal (im currently round 80kg and squating same)
    Or do i lower weight to 70kg and start doing regular squats?

    PS - problem i have is that with no-box squat with warmup only barbell and with 40kg i can control to get to stop in "hole" in line with my knees or bit below knee.. but when i place 80kg i mostly stop with my ass above the knees position as i have a hard time controlling the "break point" and feel that barbell will go over my neck in return position if i go below knee.. or that i will fall on my back if i go "ass to grass"..
    You can box squat for life if you want to.

    The bigger concern is your second point. "you" should never be trying to stop at any point. If you are stopping high on a squat, that is very bad on the knees. If you think you are going way below parallel, widen your stance. Your other option(which i dont throw out much) is that you might be a natural low bar lifter, and if you can get that form down, you may hit just below parallel without even trying.
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    Hi night -- A couple of questions:

    I bought a chin-up bar for home and have been using it for gtg. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to stop. The straight bar is causing me severe pain on the inside of my left elbow. It feels kind of like connective tissue is being drug across bone on the way up. I don't have this problem with a hammer grip or with an angled grip that's halfway between supine grip and hammer grip. (I like the angled grip best.) But most chin-up bars don't have this option. So my question is, if I can no longer do gtg and have to just do chinups in the gym as part of my regular workout, what pattern do you recommend? My most recent AMRAP was 4.

    2nd question is regarding OHP. I've switched to the Greyskull LP pattern and will be up to 87.5 lbs. next workout (last was 85 x 5, 5, 7). This has gone fine, but I think tendinitis is going to prevent me from continuing. Judging by how I'm feeling, I think even if I did it only every other All Pro workout, the inflammation still wouldn't die down enough between sessions. So my question is whether it makes sense to run the Greyskull pattern doing seated Arnold DB press instead? If so, I guess I'd need to get some loadable dumbbells and do it at home? Because 2.5 lb adjustments with dumbbells at my gym isn't possible. The smallest bumps are 5 lbs, 2.5 lbs. per side.
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    Originally Posted by bjw11180 View Post
    Hi night -- A couple of questions:

    I bought a chin-up bar for home and have been using it for gtg. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to stop. The straight bar is causing me severe pain on the inside of my left elbow. It feels kind of like connective tissue is being drug across bone on the way up. I don't have this problem with a hammer grip or with an angled grip that's halfway between supine grip and hammer grip. (I like the angled grip best.) But most chin-up bars don't have this option. So my question is, if I can no longer do gtg and have to just do chinups in the gym as part of my regular workout, what pattern do you recommend? My most recent AMRAP was 4.

    2nd question is regarding OHP. I've switched to the Greyskull LP pattern and will be up to 87.5 lbs. next workout (last was 85 x 5, 5, 7). This has gone fine, but I think tendinitis is going to prevent me from continuing. Judging by how I'm feeling, I think even if I did it only every other All Pro workout, the inflammation still wouldn't die down enough between sessions. So my question is whether it makes sense to run the Greyskull pattern doing seated Arnold DB press instead? If so, I guess I'd need to get some loadable dumbbells and do it at home? Because 2.5 lb adjustments with dumbbells at my gym isn't possible. The smallest bumps are 5 lbs, 2.5 lbs. per side.
    1) You are trying to wrist curl, or reverse wrist curl, the weight on either the chinup or the row. This is causing a type of tennis elbow when you are lowering the weight back down. For me i have a bad habit of reverse wrist curling the pendlay row when i get tired( at the top by the chest it literally looks like im pause benching complete with the wrists slightly back) and the last time i really snapped my stuff up my left arm was worthless for pulls for months, still could OHP and dip though. For home use, you can switch to hammer grip, by making some loops and using some conduit to make a handle.
    https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/world...011991648.html

    Or you could rebuy the bar with the hammer grip option:
    https://www.pullupbarninja.com/doorw...up-bar-review/
    https://www.pullupbarninja.com/doorw...ut-bar-review/
    http://pro-fitness.com/choosing-the-...nted-pull-bar/


    2) If you like the greyskull pattern, great. 5lb bumps may work with a bit of modification. Boiled down the greyskull pattern is 2 sub maximal sets (RPE 7-8) and 1 RPE10 AMRAP set. So you can still do 5lb bumps, if you feel you still have a solid 2-3 reps in the tank on the first 2 sets. Else you can still do the Arnold press with my 10 sets of 3 pattern if you can handle the self progression. Its just sets of 3 using your 8-10 rep max as a starting weight, 30 second rests. Stop the session at the first slow rep. If you get in all 10 sets, you bump 10% so it knocks you down to 5-6 sets again.
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    Hello Night,

    I am currently on regulated and I have been trying for 2 sessions to pass my OHP but so far failing, I am feeling that my left trap is fatigued during the motion causing a slow rep then I drop the set.

    There is no pain in my shoulder but I fell that generally in the area between my neck and shoulder, my left side is giving up once I progress through the set.

    well is that normal? or there is something I should do about it.

    Here are my number if it helps:

    Squat: 100 LB
    BOR: 78 LB
    BP: 100 LB
    SLDL : 126 LB
    OHP: 53 LB

    I am doing skull curshers (10KG) and Incline curls (12KG) 1 set to failure.
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    Originally Posted by ahmedhappy312 View Post
    Hello Night,

    I am currently on regulated and I have been trying for 2 sessions to pass my OHP but so far failing, I am feeling that my left trap is fatigued during the motion causing a slow rep then I drop the set.

    There is no pain in my shoulder but I fell that generally in the area between my neck and shoulder, my left side is giving up once I progress through the set.

    well is that normal? or there is something I should do about it.

    Here are my number if it helps:

    Squat: 100 LB
    BOR: 78 LB
    BP: 100 LB
    SLDL : 126 LB
    OHP: 53 LB

    I am doing skull curshers (10KG) and Incline curls (12KG) 1 set to failure.
    That normally happens if you dont lock out every rep, the "shrug" at the end of every rep. So at lock out make sure your elbows rotate out a little(if you look up, it looks like you are trying to bend the bar into a smile)

    If you wanted to as an accessory, do 1 set of shrugs using your SLDL weight. Stop the set when you feel your left trap giving out. I would only do this twice a week, or even once a week.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    That normally happens if you dont lock out every rep, the "shrug" at the end of every rep. So at lock out make sure your elbows rotate out a little(if you look up, it looks like you are trying to bend the bar into a smile)

    If you wanted to as an accessory, do 1 set of shrugs using your SLDL weight. Stop the set when you feel your left trap giving out. I would only do this twice a week, or even once a week.
    thanks night I will try these tips and see how if things improve.
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