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  1. #3331
    wroom wroom's Avatar
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    Just finished my cycle 3 yesterday. Failed the bench press on week 4(heavy and medium days) and week 5(heavy and medium days). Also failed Dumbbell Seated Shoulder press on cycle 2(week 5) and now again on cycle 3 (week 4 H&M days and week 5 H&M days). Also failed barbell curl this cycle on week 5 heavy day. Overall I feel as if I’m getting weaker for some reason and for bench press and shoulders I mostly start failing on the right side of the body and feel like the left could still push more.

    Also, even though I do jogging and HIIT 3 x week and only consume my maintenance calories(2200) my weight goes up by about a pound a month and I can see more body fat on me so it’s no muscle. Not sure what’s going on there with me overall. Should I change my program?

    Here are some stat about me and the program:

    I’m 35yo, 174 cm(5’ 9”) and 82 kg(180lb)
    * means only added on cycle 3

    Begin with Warmup 10-12 min treadmill @ 7mph
    Squats S=130lb Now= 145lb
    Bench Presses S=130lb Now= 130lb
    Reverse Grip Bent-Over Rows S=130lb Now= 140lb
    Dumbbell Seated Shoulder Presses S=60lb Now= 70lb
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts S=130lb Now= 160lb
    Barbell Curls S=85lb Now= 95lb
    *WideGrip Pulldown(H day)=3x90lb V-Bar Pulldown(M day) =3x90lb Cable Row(L day) =3x90lb
    *EZ-Bar Skullcrusher 2 x 65lb
    Standing Calf Raises S=200 Now= 240lb
    Ab work – Leg raises(H day)4x28, bicycle crunch(M day)4x100, Plank(E day)3x2min
    End with HIIT – 20-25 min(1min@5mph-1@6-1@5-1@7-1@5-1@8-1@5-1@10-1@5-30sec@7mph-30@6-30@8-30@7-30@10-30@7-30@8-1min@6-1@7-1@6-1@5) something along those lines.

    Sorry for the long post but just wanted make sure all the info is there.

  2. #3332
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wroom View Post
    Just finished my cycle 3 yesterday. Failed the bench press on week 4(heavy and medium days) and week 5(heavy and medium days). Also failed Dumbbell Seated Shoulder press on cycle 2(week 5) and now again on cycle 3 (week 4 H&M days and week 5 H&M days). Also failed barbell curl this cycle on week 5 heavy day. Overall I feel as if I’m getting weaker for some reason and for bench press and shoulders I mostly start failing on the right side of the body and feel like the left could still push more.

    Also, even though I do jogging and HIIT 3 x week and only consume my maintenance calories(2200) my weight goes up by about a pound a month and I can see more body fat on me so it’s no muscle. Not sure what’s going on there with me overall. Should I change my program?

    Here are some stat about me and the program:

    I’m 35yo, 174 cm(5’ 9”) and 82 kg(180lb)
    * means only added on cycle 3

    Begin with Warmup 10-12 min treadmill @ 7mph
    Squats S=130lb Now= 145lb
    Bench Presses S=130lb Now= 130lb
    Reverse Grip Bent-Over Rows S=130lb Now= 140lb
    Dumbbell Seated Shoulder Presses S=60lb Now= 70lb
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts S=130lb Now= 160lb
    Barbell Curls S=85lb Now= 95lb
    *WideGrip Pulldown(H day)=3x90lb V-Bar Pulldown(M day) =3x90lb Cable Row(L day) =3x90lb
    *EZ-Bar Skullcrusher 2 x 65lb
    Standing Calf Raises S=200 Now= 240lb
    Ab work – Leg raises(H day)4x28, bicycle crunch(M day)4x100, Plank(E day)3x2min
    End with HIIT – 20-25 min(1min@5mph-1@6-1@5-1@7-1@5-1@8-1@5-1@10-1@5-30sec@7mph-30@6-30@8-30@7-30@10-30@7-30@8-1min@6-1@7-1@6-1@5) something along those lines.

    Sorry for the long post but just wanted make sure all the info is there.
    Honestly i would cut back the weight on everything about 10-15% and focus on getting your bar speed up. The amount of weight you are using really doesnt matter in terms of muscle growth if you are applying the same amount of newtons of force. So monday might be 100lbs and it takes you 3 seconds a rep, if it takes just as long to do a rep on medium and light day, you are dogging the weight, aka doing it wrong. The same thing goes with rest time, if you moved 1000lbs, its going to take xxx time to recover from that before you can do it again. If you moved 800lbs, it shouldnt take you anywhere near as long before you can do it again.

    Another pit fall is doing slower reps when you do pass test day and add 110%. The 8 rep bar speed should be the same cycle to cycle when you add weight, if it goes down , again you are not pushing (applying more newtons) any more force than previous cycle.


    Ive also said HIIT is not recommended on this program.

    Its not looking good from my point of view.
    You are doing HIIT
    you are adding volume to the program via skull crushers and lat pull downs.
    Ab work at this point in time may or may not be a good idea, but at least they are very good selections. If its compromising your core strength then squats/row will stall.

    I would run the program as intended with 1 change. Since you have to do seated OHP, do the arnold press instead of the standard DB shoulder press.
    That means dropping your 2 accessories since you have not passed even 2 test days.
    Then stop doing HIIT, since that robs recovery and reduces the amount of volume you can recover from. HIIT is for 3x3 at 90% of 1rm style training that have trouble getting in the needed tonnage lifted per week. Allpro has a ton of tonnage lifted already compared to other beginner programs.
    And start doing the recommended cardio which is "something you can sustain for 45min or longer with no rest" 3x a week. This will increase recovery for the 2nd set, and increase the amount of volume you can handle per week.

    I already assume you know that the starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs (2100-2500 cals). And i assume that you know that your end goal on allpro is 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats @13% bf with a bmi of 24. For you that is 75kg.

  3. #3333
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    Post Spreadsheet Nerds Rejoice

    I'll start by saying that I'm a big fan of this routine. It feels like it was the right place for me to start to get back into working out.

    For my first cycle I wrote everything out by hand... but that was taking up too much time. So I made a spreadsheet that makes things easier for me, perhaps it will help someone else too. Feel free to make a copy for yourself and use it to track your workouts.

    (As a side benefit, it also helped me to visualize how this workout was structured.)


    Let me know if anyone has questions or notes to make it better.

    docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JrITgXVTC67f69D9wlmn-Bny7SrcndifSHCfxY4LfT0/edit?usp=sharing

  4. #3334
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    Originally Posted by Chawpped View Post
    I'll start by saying that I'm a big fan of this routine. It feels like it was the right place for me to start to get back into working out.

    For my first cycle I wrote everything out by hand... but that was taking up too much time. So I made a spreadsheet that makes things easier for me, perhaps it will help someone else too. Feel free to make a copy for yourself and use it to track your workouts.

    (As a side benefit, it also helped me to visualize how this workout was structured.)


    Let me know if anyone has questions or notes to make it better.

    docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JrITgXVTC67f69D9wlmn-Bny7SrcndifSHCfxY4LfT0/edit?usp=sharing

    Looks great. Do you have a copy that would work in excel?

  5. #3335
    Registered User Imp81318's Avatar
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    I've read through several pages of this thread and I haven't found the answer to this question, so I apologize if it has already been asked: How long does this program take to complete in the gym?

    I have limited time available during the week, but I'm thinking about maybe switching from my current HIIT/circuit routine I've been doing at home to this routine in the gym.
    My fat loss log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173571151

  6. #3336
    Registered User Chawpped's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zoom008 View Post
    Looks great. Do you have a copy that would work in excel?
    All the Google Drive tools are pretty powerful, especially for collaborative / sharing / accessing anywhere.

    But if you want it in Excel, I'm pretty sure you can just export it as an excel spreadsheet.

  7. #3337
    wroom wroom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Honestly i would cut back the weight on everything about 10-15% and focus on getting your bar speed up. The amount of weight you are using really doesnt matter in terms of muscle growth if you are applying the same amount of newtons of force. So monday might be 100lbs and it takes you 3 seconds a rep, if it takes just as long to do a rep on medium and light day, you are dogging the weight, aka doing it wrong. The same thing goes with rest time, if you moved 1000lbs, its going to take xxx time to recover from that before you can do it again. If you moved 800lbs, it shouldnt take you anywhere near as long before you can do it again.

    Another pit fall is doing slower reps when you do pass test day and add 110%. The 8 rep bar speed should be the same cycle to cycle when you add weight, if it goes down , again you are not pushing (applying more newtons) any more force than previous cycle.


    Ive also said HIIT is not recommended on this program.

    Its not looking good from my point of view.
    You are doing HIIT
    you are adding volume to the program via skull crushers and lat pull downs.
    Ab work at this point in time may or may not be a good idea, but at least they are very good selections. If its compromising your core strength then squats/row will stall.

    I would run the program as intended with 1 change. Since you have to do seated OHP, do the arnold press instead of the standard DB shoulder press.
    That means dropping your 2 accessories since you have not passed even 2 test days.
    Then stop doing HIIT, since that robs recovery and reduces the amount of volume you can recover from. HIIT is for 3x3 at 90% of 1rm style training that have trouble getting in the needed tonnage lifted per week. Allpro has a ton of tonnage lifted already compared to other beginner programs.
    And start doing the recommended cardio which is "something you can sustain for 45min or longer with no rest" 3x a week. This will increase recovery for the 2nd set, and increase the amount of volume you can handle per week.

    I already assume you know that the starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs (2100-2500 cals). And i assume that you know that your end goal on allpro is 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats @13% bf with a bmi of 24. For you that is 75kg.
    Thanks for your advice. So starting cycle 4 I will basically have to go back to cycle 2 weights and exercises plus swap for arnold press and minus 10min warmup jog and HIIT.

    I have no problem dropping weight but I have a question about cardio though. I was doing all my cardio on the day I lift as I can only work out 3 times a week(Mon., Wed., Fri.). If I drop 10 min warmup jog and 25 min HIIT that I was doing at the end is it okay to sub those with a 45 min jog at 5-6mph at the end of the routine and just do a bit of stretching as a warmup before I lift? Thanks

  8. #3338
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Imp81318 View Post
    I've read through several pages of this thread and I haven't found the answer to this question, so I apologize if it has already been asked: How long does this program take to complete in the gym?

    I have limited time available during the week, but I'm thinking about maybe switching from my current HIIT/circuit routine I've been doing at home to this routine in the gym.
    Under ideal conditions, week 5 with 90 second rest would take a little over 45min.

    Light days with 30 seconds of rest may take less than 30min.

  9. #3339
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    Originally Posted by wroom View Post
    Thanks for your advice. So starting cycle 4 I will basically have to go back to cycle 2 weights and exercises plus swap for arnold press and minus 10min warmup jog and HIIT.

    I have no problem dropping weight but I have a question about cardio though. I was doing all my cardio on the day I lift as I can only work out 3 times a week(Mon., Wed., Fri.). If I drop 10 min warmup jog and 25 min HIIT that I was doing at the end is it okay to sub those with a 45 min jog at 5-6mph at the end of the routine and just do a bit of stretching as a warmup before I lift? Thanks
    The tread mill warmup can be left in the beginning, and may be required if you are working out first thing in the morning. You can even do an extended warmup sets of the first 3 exercises if you are working with less than 66% of your working weight.
    Cardio can be completed on lifting days, if its done after the workout, just not before. You can do it for hours if you want, but the pace needs to be low enough that you can sustain it for atleast 45min.
    Static stretching must be done directly after the workout, not before the workout. Hyperextending (aka static stretching) a cold muscle that has not been worked out, will reduce performance 5-10%, the muscle fibers will literally be partially paralyzed. On the other than mimicking the movement with no load, or a reduced load (aka warmup sets) will increase range of motion and increase performance 5-10%.

    Honestly the only stretching that i have found to increase range of motion beyond a few minutes after the stretch, is traction with bands. I have personally seen 10-15 degrees of increased mobility, in lifts, in the shoulders and ankles with a few people.

  10. #3340
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Under ideal conditions, week 5 with 90 second rest would take a little over 45min.

    Light days with 30 seconds of rest may take less than 30min.
    Thanks, that's a good bit shorter than I was assuming it would take. Would it be a bad idea to consistently do 2 heavy days, rather than a heavy, medium, and light weekly rotation?
    My fat loss log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173571151

  11. #3341
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    Originally Posted by Imp81318 View Post
    Thanks, that's a good bit shorter than I was assuming it would take. Would it be a bad idea to consistently do 2 heavy days, rather than a heavy, medium, and light weekly rotation?
    There is a variant of doing 2 heavies at least 72 hours apart, all cycle. You have to do 1 extra set for the first 3 exercises when you do this variant, if you are doing it for more than a few weeks, to make up for the lost volume. I will tell you greater people than you have tried it and when back to vanilla after 2-3 cycles. It is technically sound, but it is brutal and i would not recommend it on a cut.

  12. #3342
    Registered User Imp81318's Avatar
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    Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'm really not sure that I can fit the gym three times per week into my life right now, but I will have to think about it I suppose. Right now, I have no aspirations of becoming a bodybuilder, I'm mainly just looking to lose some weight, improve my cardiovascular health, and tone my body a bit - and truth be told, I'd be happy to look like a lot of the "before" pictures I see on this site.

    Other than slowing progress, would there be any hard to only doing the heavy and medium days, and skipping the light day each week?
    Last edited by Imp81318; 03-19-2017 at 10:54 AM.
    My fat loss log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173571151

  13. #3343
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    Originally Posted by Imp81318 View Post
    Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'm really not sure that I can fit the gym three times per week into my life right now, but I will have to think about it I suppose. Right now, I have no aspirations of becoming a bodybuilder, I'm mainly just looking to lose some weight, improve my cardiovascular health, and tone my body a bit - and truth be told, I'd be happy to look like a lot of the "before" pictures I see on this site.

    Other than slowing progress, would there be any hard to only doing the heavy and medium days, and skipping the light day each week?
    If on the squat,bench, and row, you can lift 100lbs 10 times, you have to figure out a pattern that increases volume 50% over the period of 5 weeks, and gets in about 4000lbs(40x working weight) of volume per week (so 6000lbs week 5). That is allpro boiled down to the base.

    Else you might be better off with a A/B pattern workout that you can just run 2-3 times a week (or even every 48 hours so 7 times in 2 weeks) such as greyskull LP.

  14. #3344
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    Originally Posted by Josh1billion View Post
    Does anyone have some recommendations for ab exercises to add (and when to do them: off days or after the regular workout)?

    Particularly looking to fix anterior pelvic tilt. So far, all I've been doing for abs are planks. Equipment-wise, I have a power rack, flat bench, barbell/plates, and foam rollers.
    For my "cant cheat" list:
    Ab wheel roll outs
    Hanging leg raises
    high foot farmer walks/carries
    And recently landmine 180's

    For APT, the best ones i have seen is bent knee hanging leg raises(i do them at the same time as chinups) and reverse hyper extensions.

    I just killed it doing chinups with a band strung across the power rack at waist level. As i go up (since i do chinups with quads parallel to the floor) my legs catch the band and it takes alot of concentration to prevent my pelvis from tilting forward.

    The key to a good APT exercise is picking an exercise that is forcing you into ATP, and you have to fight to get out of it. So just pick some exercises that if you relaxed, you would go into ATP.

  15. #3345
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    Due to what seems to have been an endless amount of deadlines recently I missed my light day for at the very least three weeks of this cycle (in fact I think on one of the weeks I just went for two heavies instead). Test day for this cycle is tomorrow but I was wondering if missing three light days ended up screwing up the system or should I reset it (and if so, why).

    My performance hasn't changed much and I anticipate I should pass test day with no troubles, but was wondering if those missing light days add up in some way that I don't know about.

    Also is there any decent video on Overhead Press form?

  16. #3346
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    Originally Posted by blackfieldgates View Post
    Due to what seems to have been an endless amount of deadlines recently I missed my light day for at the very least three weeks of this cycle (in fact I think on one of the weeks I just went for two heavies instead). Test day for this cycle is tomorrow but I was wondering if missing three light days ended up screwing up the system or should I reset it (and if so, why).

    My performance hasn't changed much and I anticipate I should pass test day with no troubles, but was wondering if those missing light days add up in some way that I don't know about.

    Also is there any decent video on Overhead Press form?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WP...&index=5&gl=CA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBmiBqp-AI&gl=CA

    Those are the 2 most popular forms. I use jason's false grip due to previous wrist injuries, but mark's form would give better tension buildup at the bottom.

    If you feel you had a false positive on 1 or 2 lifts, perform a single set of 10 on light day with the new weight. If you fail, it was a false positive.

  17. #3347
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    Hello im new on ths one.
    Anyone approve about my routine daily supplemnt i mix

    Morning i eat breakfast oatmeal egg and bacon and after that i drink 1scoop of whey , 10grams of BCAA ,2 tablets of amino acid 2222 and 1cup of coffee rest for 30mins and hit the gym and after my workout i rest 30mins and i take 1 scoop whey , 5grams creatine , 2 tablets amino acid 2222

    And at night going to sleep i drnk 1 scoop whey, 5grams glutamine

    Is ths good or not?
    Ifeel my self seriously fast gain
    But im new i need more suggstion or any recommndation that i wll change?

  18. #3348
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    Originally Posted by Koino View Post
    Hello im new on ths one.
    Anyone approve about my routine daily supplemnt i mix

    Morning i eat breakfast oatmeal egg and bacon and after that i drink 1scoop of whey , 10grams of BCAA ,2 tablets of amino acid 2222 and 1cup of coffee rest for 30mins and hit the gym and after my workout i rest 30mins and i take 1 scoop whey , 5grams creatine , 2 tablets amino acid 2222

    And at night going to sleep i drnk 1 scoop whey, 5grams glutamine

    Is ths good or not?
    Ifeel my self seriously fast gain
    But im new i need more suggstion or any recommndation that i wll change?
    The amino acid 2222 is not needed.
    The BCAA is not needed.
    If you need a supplement like those above, due to dietary problems, i would look int 5-10g of an essential amino acid blend. per day.

    Creatine is fine till your muscles are trained (maybe six months of lifting), after that is it worthless.

    The timing of the whey also doesnt matter, you can take it any time of the day, your body will average out the protein over several days.

  19. #3349
    Registered User ElatedOwl's Avatar
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    Love this routine, it's been great for a complete beginner like me.

    At my cheapo gym there aren't any standard free weights; I've got access to a smith machine, pre-weighted barbells, and dumbbells. The pre-weighted barbells only go up to 60lbs. For squats and bench press I've been using the smith and everything else has been the barbells. For the remaining exercises, as I surpass the 60lb weight, should I be switching them to dumbbells or to the smith machine?

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    Originally Posted by ElatedOwl View Post
    Love this routine, it's been great for a complete beginner like me.

    At my cheapo gym there aren't any standard free weights; I've got access to a smith machine, pre-weighted barbells, and dumbbells. The pre-weighted barbells only go up to 60lbs. For squats and bench press I've been using the smith and everything else has been the barbells. For the remaining exercises, as I surpass the 60lb weight, should I be switching them to dumbbells or to the smith machine?
    OHP and squat can be done just fine in the smith. The bench and row can not due to the non straight bar paths (they are elliptical). Planet fitness may have elliptical bench machines (i think they are called hammer strength). Else i dont know what to tell yea, even if you look like dork with 2 60lb bar bells benching with the hammer grip, that is still less than 1 plate.

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    I've watched a few different form videos on the SLDL including the one at the start of this thread but still not sure - do you recommend a slight bend in the knee or can I keep my legs completely straight? I'm able to keep them straight while keeping a straight back and unrounded shoulders, and find it more comfortable without the slight bend in my knees. (Probably because my quads are feeling tired by this point). Will I still be able to keep doing this with heavier weight..?

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    1) focus on bar speed and short rest periods. If bar speed and rest are the same every day of the week, you are doing it wrong. Aside from that, and you want abs/cardio/deadlift, i would look into some strong man conditioning work such as prowler/sled pushes/pulls, farmer carries/walks, and what ever they call it this week where you walk around with 1 heavy dumb bell in one hand over head, and look like a dork.

    2) OHP should be 60-65% of your bench to be considered within spec. A working weight of 60lbs and a failed test day for bench would put you back in spec. A good accessory for the OHP is push pressing a weight you can only do 2-3 times, at the end of the medium/light workouts. Normally this is your bench press working weight. This corrects any form issues (you learn real quick if your form is inefficient with a heavy weight, with a light weight you could be 6" off center and still be good).

    Other than that you look good, and GG for having your row a little higher than your bench. Based on that it seems you are arm dominant, and are not using the chest to push hard at max tension to get the weight going on the bench/ohp. The chest isnt doing a whole lot once the bar is 3-4" off the chest, and if the bar doesnt have enough momentum by then, you wont be able to lock it out.
    So I slowed down my bar speed and lowered my rest period between sets and the combination absolutely kicked my ass on my medium day. I guess the extra time under tention helps a lot when going real slow on bar speed.

    After my medium workset I did two sets of 3 reps OHP with my benchpress weight. I honestly didn't notice issues with my form when I was doing it with the heavier weight set. Perhaps I just need to make this routine on light/medium days in order to get my OHP back in spec.

    Thanks for all your tips over the last few months. They've helped me improve tremendously and feel better physically and mentally.

  23. #3353
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    Originally Posted by DandyLion1 View Post
    I've watched a few different form videos on the SLDL including the one at the start of this thread but still not sure - do you recommend a slight bend in the knee or can I keep my legs completely straight? I'm able to keep them straight while keeping a straight back and unrounded shoulders, and find it more comfortable without the slight bend in my knees. (Probably because my quads are feeling tired by this point). Will I still be able to keep doing this with heavier weight..?
    Take a normal deadlift lockout stance
    bend the knees as much as you like, as long as it does not cause hip drop
    lower the bar till your hamstrings go tight, while maintaining a straight back
    as soon as the hamstrings go tight pull back hard

    You can do it just fine with straight legs, just not locked knees.

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    Originally Posted by rayg350 View Post
    So I slowed down my bar speed and lowered my rest period between sets and the combination absolutely kicked my ass on my medium day. I guess the extra time under tention helps a lot when going real slow on bar speed.

    After my medium workset I did two sets of 3 reps OHP with my benchpress weight. I honestly didn't notice issues with my form when I was doing it with the heavier weight set. Perhaps I just need to make this routine on light/medium days in order to get my OHP back in spec.

    Thanks for all your tips over the last few months. They've helped me improve tremendously and feel better physically and mentally.
    Well great that you found something that work, but you kinda misinterpreted me. When i meant focus on bar speed, i meant that has the weight gets lighter in the week, you should be getting a faster bar speed.

    You can try slow and controlled for a cycle or so to get over your hump, but its going to bite you in the ass when you need to lock out a heavy weight. You wont be able to without the momentum from a hard pull/push at the start of the movement.

    You could even do a hybrid of lowering the weight slowly, but pulling/pushing hard.

  25. #3355
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    This week I finished CYCLE 3 and it looks like this:

    Squats 43 kg PASS
    Bench Presses 43 kg PASS
    Bent-Over Rows 29 kg PASS
    Overhead Barbell Presses 31 kg FAIL (I managed only 10 reps on last set)
    SLDL 29 kg PASS
    Barbell Curls 22 kg FAIL (I managed only 10 reps on last set)
    Calf Raises 22 kg PASS

    Few questions:

    1. My barbel curl weight on Cycle 2 was to heavy (24 kg) so I worked with 22 kg on Cycle 3. I Failed again. What should I do? Do I keep the same weight (22 kg) on Cycle 3 or should I work with more or less weight?

    2. My biceps are weak, you suggested me before to do a yates row with a hammer grip at the sides using the dumb bells... I didnt do that because it was to complicated to do so I just sticked with standard program. I would like to add exercise for biceps but something simple- with barbell or dumbell, it doesent matter. I woul be tankfull if you suggest me alternative, something simple.

    3. Next week is Cycle 4, and I am not seeing much results. My diet is good but i still have big belly. I get around 120 g of protein daily, I watch my calories... Only thing that is not good si saturday when I go out and drink around 10 beers or 0.5 liter Jack with Cola or something like that( I eat pizza on thad day to or some other crap). But all the other day are fine.
    Is my progress to slow, my arms ( triceps) are little bigger but I after 3 Cycles I dont see to much improvements on my look. Should I transfer to another routine or this is normal? When can i expect some visible results? I never skipped workout, i eat good 6 of 7 days and i started to do 1 hour of cardio weekly.

  26. #3356
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    Originally Posted by milat3340 View Post
    This week I finished CYCLE 3 and it looks like this:

    Squats 43 kg PASS
    Bench Presses 43 kg PASS
    Bent-Over Rows 29 kg PASS
    Overhead Barbell Presses 31 kg FAIL (I managed only 10 reps on last set)
    SLDL 29 kg PASS
    Barbell Curls 22 kg FAIL (I managed only 10 reps on last set)
    Calf Raises 22 kg PASS

    Few questions:

    1. My barbel curl weight on Cycle 2 was to heavy (24 kg) so I worked with 22 kg on Cycle 3. I Failed again. What should I do? Do I keep the same weight (22 kg) on Cycle 3 or should I work with more or less weight?

    2. My biceps are weak, you suggested me before to do a yates row with a hammer grip at the sides using the dumb bells... I didnt do that because it was to complicated to do so I just sticked with standard program. I would like to add exercise for biceps but something simple- with barbell or dumbell, it doesent matter. I woul be tankfull if you suggest me alternative, something simple.

    3. Next week is Cycle 4, and I am not seeing much results. My diet is good but i still have big belly. I get around 120 g of protein daily, I watch my calories... Only thing that is not good si saturday when I go out and drink around 10 beers or 0.5 liter Jack with Cola or something like that( I eat pizza on thad day to or some other crap). But all the other day are fine.
    Is my progress to slow, my arms ( triceps) are little bigger but I after 3 Cycles I dont see to much improvements on my look. Should I transfer to another routine or this is normal? When can i expect some visible results? I never skipped workout, i eat good 6 of 7 days and i started to do 1 hour of cardio weekly.
    1) Either row or curl need to go up per cycle, to apply progressive overload volume to the bicep. A lot of times people just wont progress on accessories because its very uncommon to progress for long on single joint exercises. The only reason you would increase curls is if rows increased your over all work capacity.

    2) You need an accessory that is a pull with the opposite grip of your row. If you wanted something simple you could just reverse the grip of the row and do it pendlay style, 1 set to failure, on med/light days, using your normal row working weight. Else you could do kroc rows, or close grip chinups (even if they are just 10 negatives.)

    3) until you get to 13% you are not going to "see" much results. Lets say you are gods gift to lifting, that means 4lbs of muscle in 3 cycles. Spread all over your carcass under a 2" layer of fat, its going to be hard to see progress. Get a 16oz steak and slap it on your arm, that is what 1lb of arm gains looks like, it is huge and slow to get that much meat in a year even.


    And beginners always have lagging arms. Until the center gets strong and fills out, its not going to have the leverage to push the arms to the limit. And as you know you will not progress on curls/skull crushers unless you progress on bench/rows.

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    Just started my second cycle.
    Squat: 145
    Bench: 165
    Row: 165
    SLDL: 165
    Shoulder: 75
    Curl: 75

    Still getting use to being back into the gym. My squats are low as I'm trying to make sure my form is perfect before I worry about going up too much. Everything else feels fine with the exception of rows which I'm starting to doubt if i'll make it through the next cycle.

  28. #3358
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    AMAZING!
    i'm going back to the gym after years of being a desk jockey and not doing anything, i've been looking for a routine that i know is 100% 'proven', and the support on this one proves that it is.

    I do have a few questions about this:
    1. Line in OP saying "all 4 sets of" is referring only to the stuff that require warmup , right? So only 2 sets curls/calf? Isn't that a little low? Does that never increase even after 3-4 months?

    2. To "no longer be considered a beginner" do i have to physically squat x2 my body weight? Or can i use RM calculations?

    3. If i start with a weight that is lower then 80kg in any exercise , can i do the 1/4 and 1/2 warm-up with dumbbells (since bar is min 20)?

    4. there is a HUGE difference in how "Stiff legged DL" and "BB Bent over rows" look in the videos below, compared to ExRx. in ExRx the execution of the Bent Over requires that the spine will parallel to the ground, while the woman in the video below has a 45 degree angle to the floor. Similarly with the "Stiff Legged deadlift", in Exrx the person goes WAY lower and also slightly arches his back. - which should i do?

    5. Should i use a wide grip for the "bent over rows" and focus on traps? or close grip, to focus on Lats (i prefer as it seems that there is no lat-targeted exercise here)?

    6. is there any preferred calf raise? smith? BB? anything i don't know?

    7. Finally, doing some quick calculations, let's assume I'm starting the routine at 165lbs and can squat only 90lbs, for 12 reps, that makes my RM1 128LBS, that means that getting my RM1 330 (or even more, because i will gain some weight) will take 10 cycles, or 1 year - that sound like A LOT of time doing the same routine, is progress really that slow?

  29. #3359
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cytix View Post
    AMAZING!
    i'm going back to the gym after years of being a desk jockey and not doing anything, i've been looking for a routine that i know is 100% 'proven', and the support on this one proves that it is.

    I do have a few questions about this:
    1. Line in OP saying "all 4 sets of" is referring only to the stuff that require warmup , right? So only 2 sets curls/calf? Isn't that a little low? Does that never increase even after 3-4 months?

    2. To "no longer be considered a beginner" do i have to physically squat x2 my body weight? Or can i use RM calculations?

    3. If i start with a weight that is lower then 80kg in any exercise , can i do the 1/4 and 1/2 warm-up with dumbbells (since bar is min 20)?

    4. there is a HUGE difference in how "Stiff legged DL" and "BB Bent over rows" look in the videos below, compared to ExRx. in ExRx the execution of the Bent Over requires that the spine will parallel to the ground, while the woman in the video below has a 45 degree angle to the floor. Similarly with the "Stiff Legged deadlift", in Exrx the person goes WAY lower and also slightly arches his back. - which should i do?

    5. Should i use a wide grip for the "bent over rows" and focus on traps? or close grip, to focus on Lats (i prefer as it seems that there is no lat-targeted exercise here)?

    6. is there any preferred calf raise? smith? BB? anything i don't know?

    7. Finally, doing some quick calculations, let's assume I'm starting the routine at 165lbs and can squat only 90lbs, for 12 reps, that makes my RM1 128LBS, that means that getting my RM1 330 (or even more, because i will gain some weight) will take 10 cycles, or 1 year - that sound like A LOT of time doing the same routine, is progress really that slow?
    1) 2 working sets for all exercises, 2 warmup sets for the first 3 exercises

    2) the program is good for 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats, with a bmi of 24, and 13% bf. That is achievable in 5-7 cycles.

    3) Warmups need to mimic the movement. You might be better off with just a body weight warmup with just a plastic pipe or broom handle for the first warmup, and just the bar for the 2nd warmup. You can make it easy on yourself and just do the same 10 rep warmup and the same weights all cycle. Just pick something for the 2nd set that is 66-75% of your light day and you should be good.

    4) SLDL is a normal deadlift starting posistion, you can bend the knees as much as you like as long as it doesnt cause hip drop, then just bend over with a straight back till your hamstrings go tight. You should not be flexing your back like the old school SLDL, and you should not be doing them with locked knees. The bent over row should be done at a 45-60 dergree angle. The parallel to the floor version is literally a reverse bench and doesnt put on as much meat.

    5) Row grip should be the same as the bench.

    6) calf raise anything goes, some dont even need them if they have big calfs already.

    7) If you can squat 330 in a year you are gods gift to lifting unless you are 6.3 and 250lbs. A 3 plate squat at the one year mark is considered a perfect score.

    Here are some more realistic numbers based on body weights of real records:
    http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

    You start off as "strong" after 1 year of lifting, and go up a category every 12-18 months.

  30. #3360
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    tomorrow is Cycle 5/Wk 5/D1

    for BO Rows I've been stuck on 105 lbs the last 3 cycles and the problem is that it's getting more difficult every cycle.

    C3 - C4 was only able to do 10 reps on test day

    I don' t think I'll pass it in 2 weeks, but who knows....

    should I or do I need to add an accessory for it?

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