AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

I am using dumbbells. Elbows to ear is about as high as I can go. Pretty sure that is as high as I am going. Should mu palms be facing the floor?

Again, you dont want elbows to ears, you want elbows to shoulders. Going above the shoulder line is bad and is what gives the upright row a bad name.


uhh palms should be perpendicular with the floor.

Correct form:
https://www.skimble.com/exercises/20...to-do-exercise


OMFG my shoulders hurt just looking at it form:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/health-a...he-upright-row

[nightanole]

30K = 18 miles approx, im currently doing 1.5 in 20 mins, twice a week, so 3 miles a week at present.

So if i increase this to 1 hour a week in total how many KGs should i be having in my backpack for this to be effective?

How about we shoot for 25min 5k power walks. If you can walk faster than that, add weight.

[bavinck]

Okay, thanks for the help. Basically I should have a straight line from elbow to elbow?

I check that link for form and I am not pulling my elbows up too high.

[nightanole]

Okay, thanks for the help. Basically I should have a straight line from elbow to elbow?

yes

[GenerationZero]

Hmm 5k is 3 miles if I currently do 20 minutes covering 1.5 miles, I can probably do faster walking and squeeze in 2 miles or 3.2 kilometres in 25 minutes with 20kg backpack in one session. Am I understanding you correctly?

[nightanole]

Hmm 5k is 3 miles if I currently do 20 minutes covering 1.5 miles, I can probably do faster walking and squeeze in 2 miles or 3.2 kilometres in 25 minutes with 20kg backpack in one session. Am I understanding you correctly?

Yup.

for 5k training
20min is " know what im doing"
18min is " i am a weekend warrior"
16min is "highschool track"

So 25 min should be no problem for a power walker with a pack.

But again i would make sure you can even do a 5k in 25min before you attempt one with a pack.

And again the key here is to always have 1 foot on the ground.

[GenerationZero]

Sorry I think I get what your saying but I know for a fact I can't do 3 miles in 25 minutes I'll just be able to get 2 just about.... So am I working myself to get to 3 miles in 25 minutes as a first step? 3 miles = 5k

[nightanole]

Sorry I think I get what your saying but I know for a fact I can't do 3 miles in 25 minutes I'll just be able to get 2 just about.... So am I working myself to get to 3 miles in 25 minutes as a first step? 3 miles = 5k

Yup.

Step 1, get to the point you can power walk a 5k(3 mile) in 25min
Step 2, start adding weight once you can do it in 24 min, so you get back to 25min

[GoldenDogs]

10% is the min bump for the pattern to work, you can go over if you think you can progress faster.

If you are really stuck with those weights and can not bring in some diy change weights so you can move up/down 5lbs, i would just switch to auto regulated. This way even if you bump from 30 to 40, you just start off with 4-5 reps instead of 8 and it takes longer to complete a cycle:

Upping all of the weights and going over the standard 10% sounds good but does that mess anything else up? As in stalling or over doing things? I'm mainly just trying to gain size here.

And if I am doing those higher weights and I'm maxing out at let's say 6 reps do I just stop at the most I can do? And see if by week 5 I catch up?

[nightanole]

Upping all of the weights and going over the standard 10% sounds good but does that mess anything else up? As in stalling or over doing things? I'm mainly just trying to gain size here.

And if I am doing those higher weights and I'm maxing out at let's say 6 reps do I just stop at the most I can do? And see if by week 5 I catch up?

With auto regulated the weight really doesnt mater much. If you pick too light of a starting weight, you will hit your rep goal within a session or 2. If you bump the weight too high like 25%, then it will just take much longer to reach your rep goal again. Any weight you can do 4-12 reps with is fine when starting auto regulated.

So on allpro adding 3-4 reps to the set, is the same as adding 10% to the bar. So if bumping from 30 to 40 causes you to go down to 10 reps per session (odds are 6 reps first set and 4 reps second set as you get fatigued) then in 3-6 weeks you will be at 16 reps a session , and then in another 3-6 weeks you will be at 24 reps again. Vs normal all pro with min 10% progress, so 30 to 33 in 5 weeks, then 33 to 36 in 5 weeks, and then hitting 40 in another 5 week.

[bavinck]

Okay, back again with the clicking in my shoulder area during upright row. Got my form down (thanks nightanole). It's better, but still getting some clicking. Feels like tendons rubbing together or something. I'll ask my doc, but what is the prevailing wind of wisdom on lifts that cause this? Should they be avoided? Is this something that indicates a lack of core strength that should come along in time? Should I just respect my limits and find another lift?

[nightanole]

Okay, back again with the clicking in my shoulder area during upright row. Got my form down (thanks nightanole). It's better, but still getting some clicking. Feels like tendons rubbing together or something. I'll ask my doc, but what is the prevailing wind of wisdom on lifts that cause this? Should they be avoided? Is this something that indicates a lack of core strength that should come along in time? Should I just respect my limits and find another lift?

"there are no bad exercises, but there are exercises that are bad for you".


There was a prehab video posted in the last 2 pages that i said was great. In it was proper form for later raises (pinky down etc). So if your doc says dont do upright rows due to your bone structure, then the next alt is the lateral raise + a curl.

[clwhoops44]

Re: beginner being classified as someone who can't bench 1.5x their body weight.

I am a beginner, admittedly. I took a very long break and have been back at it for about 5 months now. Just benched my body weight for the first time since being back on Monday. I weigh roughly 250 pounds, going to go out on a limb and say I will never break out of the beginner phase by that standard because a 375 pound bench?? That's pretty insane.. wonder how many people in the world can actually put that up? Lol

[JustinP72]

Re: beginner being classified as someone who can't bench 1.5x their body weight.

I am a beginner, admittedly. I took a very long break and have been back at it for about 5 months now. Just benched my body weight for the first time since being back on Monday. I weigh roughly 250 pounds, going to go out on a limb and say I will never break out of the beginner phase by that standard because a 375 pound bench?? That's pretty insane.. wonder how many people in the world can actually put that up? Lol

I think that beginner idea is based on a person in a healthy BMI/weight range; hitting 250 when you weigh 180 is a lot different than hitting it when you weigh 250. I don't know your stats, so don't take it personally; I'm only speaking in generalizations.

[nightanole]

Re: beginner being classified as someone who can't bench 1.5x their body weight.

I am a beginner, admittedly. I took a very long break and have been back at it for about 5 months now. Just benched my body weight for the first time since being back on Monday. I weigh roughly 250 pounds, going to go out on a limb and say I will never break out of the beginner phase by that standard because a 375 pound bench?? That's pretty insane.. wonder how many people in the world can actually put that up? Lol

@13-18% bf.

allpro its 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squat. We assume you will have a bmi of 24 @ 13%.


http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

or you are no longer a n00b when you are "strong"

[clwhoops44]

I think that beginner idea is based on a person in a healthy BMI/weight range; hitting 250 when you weigh 180 is a lot different than hitting it when you weigh 250. I don't know your stats, so don't take it personally; I'm only speaking in generalizations.

No offense taken, makes more sense. I'm 6'3 but yeah still a good 25 or 30 pounds heavier than I want to end up.

[GenerationZero]

In a couple of weeks I would be starting my next cycle. Currently using a barbell to do curls but thinking of changing this to dumbbells. If so do I just half the weight of the current barbell to find a starting weight and apply that to the dumbbells workout? I.e. if I'm lifting 35kg then one dumbbell would be around 17kg or do I have to reset and start again to find the correct weight?

[nightanole]

In a couple of weeks I would be starting my next cycle. Currently using a barbell to do curls but thinking of changing this to dumbbells. If so do I just half the weight of the current barbell to find a starting weight and apply that to the dumbbells workout? I.e. if I'm lifting 35kg then one dumbbell would be around 17kg or do I have to reset and start again to find the correct weight?

It will be harder to db curl vs bb curl. Id do a 10 rep test.

[bavinck]

I met with a PT at my gym to get started using a squat rack for my squats. He said I'm not ready for squats yet with a barbell as my posture sucks and the muscles between my shoulders are not strong enough. He rushed, though, and I don't feel like I have a solid plan to get me ready. Anyone able to comment on this issue and/or point me in the direction of how to better my readiness for traditional squat with barbell?

[GenerationZero]

It will be harder to db curl vs bb curl. Id do a 10 rep test.

hmm I thought to change this as I feel my right arm does more work.... Just a little nervous that I don't want to create any muscle imbalances. Trying to add in muscle mind connection but I can forget most times

[nightanole]

hmm I thought to change this as I feel my right arm does more work.... Just a little nervous that I don't want to create any muscle imbalances. Trying to add in muscle mind connection but I can forget most times

as long as the rep is the same speed and form, you wont have an imbalance. the "weak" arm will have to work harder to catch up, which should promote more growth to even things out. now if you start kicking out an elbow and the weight doesnt hit your chest at the same time, the weakness will continue.

[nightanole]

I met with a PT at my gym to get started using a squat rack for my squats. He said I'm not ready for squats yet with a barbell as my posture sucks and the muscles between my shoulders are not strong enough. He rushed, though, and I don't feel like I have a solid plan to get me ready. Anyone able to comment on this issue and/or point me in the direction of how to better my readiness for traditional squat with barbell?

ANYONE can squat.

When you go get your "starting strength" trainer certificate. They bring the worst n00bs possible. Old farts, people from motocycle acidents, people who cant walk and chew gum at the same time, etc. to pass your test, you must get/coach them to bar bell back squat with good form.


But if you dont want to squat with a plastic pipe instead of a bar bell, etc...
The alt is the goblet squat. It should be easier to balance. buuuuut it only works till the dumb bell gets heavy, you are not going to be goblet squatting half body weight.

[bavinck]

ANYONE can squat.

When you go get your "starting strength" trainer certificate. They bring the worst n00bs possible. Old farts, people from motocycle acidents, people who cant walk and chew gum at the same time, etc. to pass your test, you must get/coach them to bar bell back squat with good form.


But if you dont want to squat with a plastic pipe instead of a bar bell, etc...
The alt is the goblet squat. It should be easier to balance. buuuuut it only works till the dumb bell gets heavy, you are not going to be goblet squatting half body weight.

This is what I was thinking. He told me the line between the back of head, upper back and top of butt was not straight enough and I would risk slipping a disc by putting a barbell on my shoulders. All I wanted was some practice squatting with just the bar, but he wouldn't do it. Sounded like good reasons (I guess, IDK). He wants me building up my rombs and focusing on pulling back my shoulders for posture (I'm an overweight huncher). He said do leg press (machine which I don't want to use), cablerow, rear delt fly and back extension & instead of benchpress he wants me doing an inclined bench and something called a palof press - everything 3x10. My debate is do I heed this advice as smarter than me to avoid injury, or do I just ignore him and continue with allpro (squats are 100lbs with dumbells hanging beside my body). He is a powerlifter that wins awards all the time so he knows what he is doing. What would you advise?

[nightanole]

This is what I was thinking. He told me the line between the back of head, upper back and top of butt was not straight enough and I would risk slipping a disc by putting a barbell on my shoulders. All I wanted was some practice squatting with just the bar, but he wouldn't do it. Sounded like good reasons (I guess, IDK). He wants me building up my rombs and focusing on pulling back my shoulders for posture (I'm an overweight huncher). He said do leg press (machine which I don't want to use), cablerow, rear delt fly and back extension & instead of benchpress he wants me doing an inclined bench and something called a palof press - everything 3x10. My debate is do I heed this advice as smarter than me to avoid injury, or do I just ignore him and continue with allpro (squats are 100lbs with dumbells hanging beside my body). He is a powerlifter that wins awards all the time so he knows what he is doing. What would you advise?

Like i said, you can "practice the lift" unweighted. If you can get in and out of a chair, you can start squatting.

Yes you may have the rounded shoulders and head forward posture etc.

What is going to help you is "standing" exercises. The OHP and Row is going to do so much for your posture you wont believe. Since you are "anterior dominant" your guy is eliminating the standard bench, and going with incline only. Allpro does it differently. We bench and OHP in the same session. This is different that most beginner routines that alternate bench and OHP every other session.

If you want to start off with a cable row instead of standing row, go for it, it will help your shoulders, but it wont reenforce your posterior chain. In a month or something you can then start standing rows.

Leg press will "make your legs bigger" but again its not going to help your posterior chain.

Rear delt flys are worthless at this point. They are for power lifters that bench 400lbs, but row 225 and are imbalanced. "bench monkeys".

3x10 is fine, but its a different program, its not allpro. 3x5 is fine, there is no magic number.

You do not want to squat with 2 dumb bells at your side. Goblet squat or zercher squat only if you cant back squat.



Personally it sounds like your instructor is trying to make a body building routine and build up each muscle/group individually using the shortest kinetic chain possible. Allpro is the opposite, we use the longest chains possible. You can tell from the lifts, most allpro lifts are from the balls of your feet to the balls of your hands.

[bavinck]

Like i said, you can "practice the lift" unweighted. If you can get in and out of a chair, you can start squatting.

Yes you may have the rounded shoulders and head forward posture etc.

What is going to help you is "standing" exercises. The OHP and Row is going to do so much for your posture you wont believe. Since you are "anterior dominant" your guy is eliminating the standard bench, and going with incline only. Allpro does it differently. We bench and OHP in the same session. This is different that most beginner routines that alternate bench and OHP every other session.

If you want to start off with a cable row instead of standing row, go for it, it will help your shoulders, but it wont reenforce your posterior chain. In a month or something you can then start standing rows.

Leg press will "make your legs bigger" but again its not going to help your posterior chain.

Rear delt flys are worthless at this point. They are for power lifters that bench 400lbs, but row 225 and are imbalanced. "bench monkeys".

3x10 is fine, but its a different program, its not allpro. 3x5 is fine, there is no magic number.

You do not want to squat with 2 dumb bells at your side. Goblet squat or zercher squat only if you cant back squat.



Personally it sounds like your instructor is trying to make a body building routine and build up each muscle/group individually using the shortest kinetic chain possible. Allpro is the opposite, we use the longest chains possible. You can tell from the lifts, most allpro lifts are from the balls of your feet to the balls of your hands.

Thanks, this was a really helpful explanation. The head PT guy was a bit of a d-bag and crapped all over the allpro program when I first met him. When I was able to get a word in and pushed back saying I want to stick with my program he paused and said "I've been doing this a long time....". Okay, whatever. Happy I got a different guy for my session, but he is towing the party line and kind of politely dumped on the program too. I'm going to stick with allpro and just avoid eye-contact with the trainer lol!!

Honestly, they charged me $60 CAD for my hour with this guy and I really don't feel like I got much out of it. He tried selling me 18 sessions! After he sent me an email saying he booked me in again for 2 week to check up. Oye, are all these PT people so pushY?

[nightanole]

Thanks, this was a really helpful explanation. The head PT guy was a bit of a d-bag and crapped all over the allpro program when I first met him. When I was able to get a word in and pushed back saying I want to stick with my program he paused and said "I've been doing this a long time....". Okay, whatever. Happy I got a different guy for my session, but he is towing the party line and kind of politely dumped on the program too. I'm going to stick with allpro and just avoid eye-contact with the trainer lol!!

Honestly, they charged me $60 CAD for my hour with this guy and I really don't feel like I got much out of it. He tried selling me 18 sessions! After he sent me an email saying he booked me in again for 2 week to check up. Oye, are all these PT people so pushY?

Yes the trainers are that pushy. Their ingredients and their recipe, else they have no clue if it will be "good or bad". And yes all pro is "weird". Most are not used to seeing a "fatigue based" program. "why on earth are you dropping weight during the week, you should be increasing it", etc. Then you come to this thread and ask about not dropping the weight or increasing the weight, and everyone turns white in the face just thinking about it.

But allpro does use standard lifts. So any decent PT should be able to teach you how to bench/squat/row/OHP etc. "Hey mr PT, 60 bucks says you can get me to squat without buttwink".

[bavinck]

Okay, I have a plan. I'm going to take your suggestion of the goblet squat to work on my form inside the allpro format. I am struggling with making a linear line down with the weight, I can feel my body tending to put weight more on the toe than heel on my way down. Going to really focus on even weight along the foot bed and driving up with my heels. Also, my mobility isn't great and I cannot break parallel, so I am hoping the goblet will help me work on that too.

Any tweeks to this solution?

[nightanole]

Okay, I have a plan. I'm going to take your suggestion of the goblet squat to work on my form inside the allpro format. I am struggling with making a linear line down with the weight, I can feel my body tending to put weight more on the toe than heel on my way down. Going to really focus on even weight along the foot bed and driving up with my heels. Also, my mobility isn't great and I cannot break parallel, so I am hoping the goblet will help me work on that too.

Any tweeks to this solution?

hmmm...

Think you can pull off a proper goblet box squat?

Here is the deal with "box" squats. Your knees are not allowed to travel forward(well at least not much). So have to learn to load the hamstrings and use your posterior chain.
A bad box squat, is just as normal squat onto/sit on a box.

SO if you can pull it off, you will be able to bend down to the box without having your knees travel forward, sit with full weight on the box, then (and here is the key that everyone screws up) get off the box without having the knees travel forward.

Also box squats are easier on weak knees, and my goto for people with bad knees. If you can get out of a chair pain free, you can box squat pain free.

But if you can learn to box squat correctly with a light weight, you will break that habit of shifting the the weight forward. Right now odds are you are doing something called a "squat good morning". You are quad dominant so your knees lock before the rep is done, and when this happens the weight moves forward. U HAVE A SMALL BUTT. and your quads can over power your butt. If you had a super butt the opposite would happen, your torso would shoot up straight before your knees locked.

[bavinck]

Yup, my quads are a lot stronger than my flabby butt!

Ill try the box squat next week if the gym. I tried to do it just now in my kitchen. Keeping those knees from moving forward on the way up is going to be a challenge. But if this helps my squat alignment I will give it a go.

Thanks again for all the help. I feel like your free "random dude on the internet" advice is way more useful to me than the expensive trainer in my gym!

[GenerationZero]

as long as the rep is the same speed and form, you wont have an imbalance. the "weak" arm will have to work harder to catch up, which should promote more growth to even things out. now if you start kicking out an elbow and the weight doesnt hit your chest at the same time, the weakness will continue.

Erm what do you mean about the weight hitting the chest? Just checking my form but this is the video I'll be/am following? https://youtu.be/QZEqB6wUPxQ I generally try to keep my arms shoulder width apart but find myself adjusting between reps to feel comfortable mainly on heavy day. Cheers

Edit

So i did test day today and passed all - just about. I will continue to add 10% but i feel i may have reached some limit (think ive added 10% on 5 cycles at least) whilst on a cut (1700 cals) but have seen 4lbs drop over the last 2 weeks since introducing 25 minute walks (the most weight loss i've seen in 5 cycles, so interesting to see what happens in the next 2 weeks).

1. If im failing on any lifts do i just do what ive done with squats (add weight and do 4-8 reps)?
2. My bench is a little all over the place which i think you will say is ok but i just need you to confirm if its the case. So heres my reps (the weight remains the same until i can get 24 reps - with 2 warmup sets)

Week 1 = 9,6 - 6,5, - 5,4
Week 2 = 7,5 - 9,7, - 6,4
This week = 4,5