AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[waterhg]

Question re the above.... all pro says do all FOUR sets for X reps. I assume I should also be increasing the reps for Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls and Calf Raises along the same pattern too?

Can anyone confirm?

Nope, just for the first three lifts.

Squat, Bench & BOR are 2 warm up sets then 2 work sets each. All other lifts are 2 work sets only.

[nightanole]

Hi,

I'm about to go on to week 5 of cycle 1 but have a few questions about changing my routine.

I really enjoy the routine but even at lower weights I am struggling with the higher reps. Would it be possible to alter the pattern in any way? For example:

1. Instead of working from 8 -12 reps, going 6-10
2- As above but 5-8 for 3 sets rather than 2 - this would have a test week every 4 weeks rather than 5 but would see you completing 24 reps before progress.

Any thoughts? Thanks

Your getting warmer on your guessing.

"novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts to 3 sets of 4-8 reps. The rest of the program is still 8-12 2 sets.

[Botika]

Nope, just for the first three lifts.

Squat, Bench & BOR are 2 warm up sets then 2 work sets each. All other lifts are 2 work sets only.

Thanks, I get that but was asking about the progression over the 5 weeks. I assume I should follow the same increase in reps (8 first week to 12 in week 5) for all exercises/sets including warm up sets. If that’s wrong, I would appreciate if someone could correct me!

[waterhg]

Thanks, I get that but was asking about the progression over the 5 weeks. I assume I should follow the same increase in reps (8 first week to 12 in week 5) for all exercises/sets including warm up sets. If that’s wrong, I would appreciate if someone could correct me!

Ah okay. 10 reps every week, 25% and 50% of heavy day working weight. Don't adjust for medium/light days.

I don't suppose it really matters provided you're sufficiently warmed up. I always start with just the bar then add another set at around 50%. But always 10 reps.

[derf70]

Your getting warmer on your guessing.

"novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts to 3 sets of 4-8 reps. The rest of the program is still 8-12 2 sets.

Thanks. I've completed my test day of cycle 1 and managed to pass all exercises although I struggled with Bench Press and OHP (despite lowering the weight on them around week 3). My problem with the OHP is partly that I am tired by the time I get to it. I can do one set at 35kg reasonably easily when rested but struggle with the second set at 30kg during the workout. I've also lost about 5 pounds during this cycle so down to about 172 pounds with BF about 18%. I think when I stop cutting I'll find things a lot easier. I am planning on sticking to the beginners cycle for now but will look at novice if I struggle with the new weight next week.

Thanks

[nightanole]

Thanks. I've completed my test day of cycle 1 and managed to pass all exercises although I struggled with Bench Press and OHP (despite lowering the weight on them around week 3). My problem with the OHP is partly that I am tired by the time I get to it. I can do one set at 35kg reasonably easily when rested but struggle with the second set at 30kg during the workout. I've also lost about 5 pounds during this cycle so down to about 172 pounds with BF about 18%. I think when I stop cutting I'll find things a lot easier. I am planning on sticking to the beginners cycle for now but will look at novice if I struggle with the new weight next week.

Thanks

I can OHP 135 for 2 before i blow a blood vessel when completely fresh. If i want to run allpro without missing reps, i have to knock the working weight down to 70lbs for heavy day. On accessories you will be working a bit lighter than the normal 60-70% of 1rm of the mains.

[derf70]

I can OHP 135 for 2 before i blow a blood vessel when completely fresh. If i want to run allpro without missing reps, i have to knock the working weight down to 70lbs for heavy day. On accessories you will be working a bit lighter than the normal 60-70% of 1rm of the mains.

That makes sense to me. I think I started too high for the accessories (mainly OHP). I should have started a bit lower and built it up slower. Looking forward to going back to 8 rep sets next week

[Wass85]

Am I better off running this program over F5 if I'm cutting?

[nightanole]

Am I better off running this program over F5 if I'm cutting?

Meh, allpro if you like 10 reps, F5 if you like 5 reps, and bump every other week. Its up to you. If you are going to be cutting more than 6-8 weeks, it leans more towards allpro.

[Wass85]

So for 5 weeks you keep with the same weight and only had a rep per set each week until you complete the 5th week?

So should I choose a weight in which I'm almost to failure on my 8th rep on my last set during my first workout which will be on the heavy day?

[nightanole]

So for 5 weeks you keep with the same weight and only had a rep per set each week until you complete the 5th week?

So should I choose a weight in which I'm almost to failure on my 8th rep on my last set during my first workout which will be on the heavy day?

Close. You choose a weight that you are close to failure on, on your 10th rep. You then start the program with 8 reps, to get used to the routine, and to build up fatigue. You are not allowed to recover on the program, it is fatigue based. People feel like superman for the first 2-3 weeks on the program. You will hear "its way too easy, should i up the weight?". By week three, they are wondering why 10 reps requires so much effort, to even complete medium day.

[Wass85]

Do you work out your 10 rep max in just the one set?

[GenerationZero]

So I'm on my 3rd cycle on 11 reps this week.
I decided to get a Mi-band to see where i stand with some reading I've done.
I've increased the weight by 10% each cycle.
Currently i'm exhausted and my form is taking a little hit on the last 2-3 reps of the 11.

Now i could be going off on the wrong track here but when i was doing 8 reps my "Deep sleep" was reading as good from the Mi-band info collected. Right now it says i need more deep sleep since being on 10+ reps. I mention this as this is related to recovery.

I am having a pre-workout before training, my diet consists of protein at 1gm per pound on most days but certainly more than my lean body mass on all days. Carbs is a little less and fats approx 50-70gms depending on the day).

I take some recovery supplements too i.e. Citrulline Malate, Fish tablets, BCAA's.

1. Does this all sound normal and i should continue what I'm doing?
2. If i cant add 10% to my lifts at the start of the next cycle, would this be ok or is this going against the program and I'm doing something wrong?

Note: I'm on 1700 cals which is me being on a cut and currently walk 1.5 miles 3 days a week (approx 20 mins per session - i know it should be more but im limited on time etc)

[nightanole]

Do you work out your 10 rep max in just the one set?

uhhh.

before you start the program, you try to find your 10 rep max, using the exercises in order that you will be mostly doing them during the routine. For 1 set each of 10. This may take a few days of tuning, and when in doubt start too light not too heavy. You can always bump 20-30% at the end of the cycle. Thats better than failing your first cycle.

[nightanole]

So I'm on my 3rd cycle on 11 reps this week.
I decided to get a Mi-band to see where i stand with some reading I've done.
I've increased the weight by 10% each cycle.
Currently i'm exhausted and my form is taking a little hit on the last 2-3 reps of the 11.

Now i could be going off on the wrong track here but when i was doing 8 reps my "Deep sleep" was reading as good from the Mi-band info collected. Right now it says i need more deep sleep since being on 10+ reps. I mention this as this is related to recovery.

I am having a pre-workout before training, my diet consists of protein at 1gm per pound on most days but certainly more than my lean body mass on all days. Carbs is a little less and fats approx 50-70gms depending on the day).

I take some recovery supplements too i.e. Citrulline Malate, Fish tablets, BCAA's.

1. Does this all sound normal and i should continue what I'm doing?
2. If i cant add 10% to my lifts at the start of the next cycle, would this be ok or is this going against the program and I'm doing something wrong?

Note: I'm on 1700 cals which is me being on a cut and currently walk 1.5 miles 3 days a week (approx 20 mins per session - i know it should be more but im limited on time etc)

Uhh, now before a chew you out, how tall are you? Because you are not even close to the recomended diet, aka you are doubling the protein and halving the fats, and eating 33% less calories than the mins required to perform.

But hey you maybe 5.7...


WHich lift are you failing on?


Yes this is normal to sometimes fail on 1 of the 2 lifts per muscle group. So towards the end you may pass OHP and then fail bench, and then pass bench and fail OHP the next cycle. It just means you are not progressing at 10%, you may be progressing at 6.66% and you will fail every 3rd cycle.

If it makes you feel better, at intermediate level you will be lucky to be progressing at 25-33% per year.

[GenerationZero]

Uhh, now before a chew you out, how tall are you? Because you are not even close to the recomended diet, aka you are doubling the protein and halving the fats, and eating 33% less calories than the mins required to perform.

But hey you maybe 5.7...


WHich lift are you failing on?


Yes this is normal to sometimes fail on 1 of the 2 lifts per muscle group. So towards the end you may pass OHP and then fail bench, and then pass bench and fail OHP the next cycle. It just means you are not progressing at 10%, you may be progressing at 6.66% and you will fail every 3rd cycle.

If it makes you feel better, at intermediate level you will be lucky to be progressing at 25-33% per year.

Im 5'6, approx. Currently this is what i have and been on for a few months (with occasional cheat meal)

F - 68gm 612 Cals
P - 153gm 612 Cals
C - 131gm 524 Cals

Total 1750

So I ran my numbers on the calculator page.

Body Fat (U.S. Navy Method) 28.0%
Body Fat Category Obese
Body Fat Mass 50.3 lbs
Lean Body Mass 129.7 lbs
Ideal Body Fat for Given Age
(Jackson & Pollard) 15.3%
Body Fat to Lose to Reach Ideal 22.8 lbs
Body Fat (BMI method) 27.9%

Today i have dropped my cals (to 1700, so not a huge drop), in order to reduce some body fat.

I was mildly struggling on Squat rep 10 and 11 but on the second set

[nightanole]

Im 5'6, approx. Currently this is what i have and been on for a few months (with occasional cheat meal)

F - 68gm 612 Cals
P - 153gm 612 Cals
C - 131gm 524 Cals

Total 1750

So I ran my numbers on the calculator page.

Body Fat (U.S. Navy Method) 28.0%
Body Fat Category Obese
Body Fat Mass 50.3 lbs
Lean Body Mass 129.7 lbs
Ideal Body Fat for Given Age
(Jackson & Pollard) 15.3%
Body Fat to Lose to Reach Ideal 22.8 lbs
Body Fat (BMI method) 27.9%

Today i have dropped my cals (to 1700, so not a huge drop), in order to reduce some body fat.

I was mildly struggling on Squat rep 10 and 11 but on the second set

drop your protein down to 100g, roll the decreased grams into carbs, that should boost your carbs around 50g. Your body can make most of its protein from excess carbs just fine, but your body "performs" poor trying to burn protein for fuel.

Next cycle bump squats 10% no mater what, and switch to "novice" 3 sets of 4-8 reps.

[GenerationZero]

drop your protein down to 100g, roll the decreased grams into carbs, that should boost your carbs around 50g. Your body can make most of its protein from excess carbs just fine, but your body "performs" poor trying to burn protein for fuel.

Next cycle bump squats 10% no mater what, and switch to "novice" 3 sets of 4-8 reps.

Ok so leave calories at 1700, set protein to 100gms (though this may impact on my recovery??), Fats as they are and rest on carbs?

When you say switch to novice 3 sets of 4-8 reps do you mean follow the same layout for AllPro but start with a weight of what I can lift at 6 reps, week 1 start with 4 reps but 2 warm up sets and 3 working sets?

Cheers

[nightanole]

Ok so leave calories at 1700, set protein to 100gms (though this may impact on my recovery??), Fats as they are and rest on carbs?

When you say switch to novice 3 sets of 4-8 reps do you mean follow the same layout for AllPro but start with a weight of what I can lift at 6 reps, week 1 start with 4 reps but 2 warm up sets and 3 working sets?

Cheers

Yes keep cals at 1700

100g of protein is enough for a 180lb college student to keep is football scholarship. You wont need 150-200g, till you need 3000-3500 cals just to maintain weight. Yes you can keep fats the same.

yes, you switch just squats to 3 sets of 4-8 reps( so test day is still 24 reps total). No you will not be running at you 6 rep max, you will still be running at your 10 rep max, just now you will have a deeper deload and faster ramp up. Warmups can be 2 sets of 8-10 reps, its not going to matter much.

[GenerationZero]

Yes keep cals at 1700

100g of protein is enough for a 180lb college student to keep is football scholarship. You wont need 150-200g, till you need 3000-3500 cals just to maintain weight. Yes you can keep fats the same.

yes, you switch just squats to 3 sets of 4-8 reps( so test day is still 24 reps total). No you will not be running at you 6 rep max, you will still be running at your 10 rep max, just now you will have a deeper deload and faster ramp up. Warmups can be 2 sets of 8-10 reps, its not going to matter much.

Thanks, just one more for you :-)

I noted you wrote "just squats" so i will change only squats.

10 Rep max. So currently im at 71.1KG on my Squats at 11 reps. Ive been on some calculators trying to determine my 10 rep max which seems to be 72.9 (strengthlevel.com/one-rep-max-calculator) - would you agree with this as a starting point?

[nightanole]

Thanks, just one more for you :-)

I noted you wrote "just squats" so i will change only squats.

10 Rep max. So currently im at 71.1KG on my Squats at 11 reps. Ive been on some calculators trying to determine my 10 rep max which seems to be 72.9 (strengthlevel.com/one-rep-max-calculator) - would you agree with this as a starting point?

You would be surprised. I bet if you took 3-4 days off, you might get in 75kg for 10. You are doing 71.1kg, while fatigued.

[Harzaka]

Hey, im extremely new to workout programs and such and im just wondering.
All these exercises, do you do them all in one workout session or do you split them up?

Or is it all the exercises listed in one workout, 3 days a week?
Sorry if im dumb or if its a stupid question.

[nightanole]

Hey, im extremely new to workout programs and such and im just wondering.
All these exercises, do you do them all in one workout session or do you split them up?

Or is it all the exercises listed in one workout, 3 days a week?
Sorry if im dumb or if its a stupid question.

Question 1: So how many sets am I doing exactly?
Answer: You are doing exactly 2 work-sets for each exercise. In addition, you are doing 2 warm-up sets for the first three exercises only (Squats, Bench Press and Bent Over Rows) - the remaining four exercises do not require warm-ups, however you can do them if you feel the need to. Here is a blue-print for all the sets you should be doing, in that order:

Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
Curls: work-set, work-set
Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

[Wass85]

uhhh.

before you start the program, you try to find your 10 rep max, using the exercises in order that you will be mostly doing them during the routine. For 1 set each of 10. This may take a few days of tuning, and when in doubt start too light not too heavy. You can always bump 20-30% at the end of the cycle. Thats better than failing your first cycle.

Can I find my 10 rep max for each exercise on my first workout day and then drop the next set to 6 so I have the same amount of reps as a usual first day?

[nightanole]

Can I find my 10 rep max for each exercise on my first workout day and then drop the next set to 6 so I have the same amount of reps as a usual first day?

No. Find your 10 reps, then take 72 hours rest, then you are ready for your first heavy day of the program. Some people even spend 2 weeks practicing the lifts and finding their 10 rep max, i find that is a bit excessive, but hey you are working out and increasing form.

[Wass85]

Should a newbie do a few warm up sets when doing his 10 rep max on his first day?

[nightanole]

Should a newbie do a few warm up sets when doing his 10 rep max on his first day?

Everyone should do a few warmup reps/sets. You dont want your first max effort of the day, and the fullest extension of the day, to be done with max weight.

[GenerationZero]

Hey a quick few questions :-)

1. On my next cycle i want to change the weights on a couple of excercises to make up a single plate i.e. if i have 2 x 5KG to make 10KG then im planning on changing this to a single 10KG plate. I read many months ago that this can alter the amount you lift as the weight isnt "spread" across the bar.

So if i did do this do i have to re-analyse where im at? Or dependent on the individual?

2. Now that im cutting protein to 100gms, i can get this with food. My normal routine is to take some BCAA (Pre workout) with a banana and train and then have 1 scoop pro shake, 2 eggs and oats for breakfast. Would taking the protein shake OUT be ok or would this hinder my recovery?

3. I have a party on Saturday where i know im likely to drink/eat more. Could i average the weeks calories and minus X amount of calories on Thursday, Fri and Sun if need be so the weekly calorie total remains the same?

Thanks

[cljolley]

Night, what exactly is the purpose of the warmups if not to avoid injury? What would be the potential drawbacks/consequences of not performing them?

[waterhg]

Hey a quick few questions :-)

1. On my next cycle i want to change the weights on a couple of excercises to make up a single plate i.e. if i have 2 x 5KG to make 10KG then im planning on changing this to a single 10KG plate. I read many months ago that this can alter the amount you lift as the weight isnt "spread" across the bar.

So if i did do this do i have to re-analyse where im at? Or dependent on the individual?

2. Now that im cutting protein to 100gms, i can get this with food. My normal routine is to take some BCAA (Pre workout) with a banana and train and then have 1 scoop pro shake, 2 eggs and oats for breakfast. Would taking the protein shake OUT be ok or would this hinder my recovery?

3. I have a party on Saturday where i know im likely to drink/eat more. Could i average the weeks calories and minus X amount of calories on Thursday, Fri and Sun if need be so the weekly calorie total remains the same?

Thanks

1. Won't make any difference, don't know where you heard that. If one end of the bar were fixed and you were lifting the other end there would be a miniscule difference, but a) it wouldn't be enough to worry about and b) this doesn't apply to any of the allpro lifts.

2. Protein shake is food, treat like anything else. It's essentially milk powder.

3. Sure, your body will kind of average calories and macros out over a few days anyway. Think of weekly averages, life's too short to miss out on the fun stuff!