AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Is this workout ideal for fat loss? I'm on a calorie deficit, which is around 20-25% calories less. Thanks!

Its meant to get you to 13%(flexed abs) before you start bulking. So yea you start the program on a cut. However its most efficient if you only lose 1% bw per week. A 20-25% cut is pretty dang deep and may be hard to perform on, that is equivalent to just not eating on the weekends.

[blackfieldgates]

So I changed the Upright Row for an assisted Chin Up but I was wondering how wide the grip is supposed to be? the handles don't meet very closely for what I would consider a traditional looking chin up, in fact to keep a supinated grip I would have to have my arms very wide. It has a neutral grip as well- is there any significant difference in a supinated or neutral grip for this exercise? Or am I supposed to just have my arms very wide?

Also just out of curiosity (I don't consider myself in any shape for it) but in the second variant of Butcher Version of All Pros it suggests you add + 2 reps on medium day and +4 reps on light day but isn't the whole point of the medium and light days to be a decrease? Surely adding reps is the same difference as just doing a heavy day?

[nightanole]

So I changed the Upright Row for an assisted Chin Up but I was wondering how wide the grip is supposed to be? the handles don't meet very closely for what I would consider a traditional looking chin up, in fact to keep a supinated grip I would have to have my arms very wide. It has a neutral grip as well- is there any significant difference in a supinated or neutral grip for this exercise? Or am I supposed to just have my arms very wide?

Also just out of curiosity (I don't consider myself in any shape for it) but in the second variant of Butcher Version of All Pros it suggests you add + 2 reps on medium day and +4 reps on light day but isn't the whole point of the medium and light days to be a decrease? Surely adding reps is the same difference as just doing a heavy day?

The chinup varaint should be the reverse grip of the row, and about the same width. If you want a bit more forearm work, you can narrow the grip. I have never had someone go wide with a straight bar and palms towards grip, but hey as long as elbows are under wrists you are good to go.

Butchered has gone through a few revs, but the main point is it is a high volume program for bulking. Tonnage is increased during the week. But yes your nose is correct, since rep range doesnt matter, you are basically doing 3 heavies a week on butchered. And in theory butchered heavy day is a bit lighter than regular allpro, else you would never get 2 more reps in on medium day. Ask anyone in this thread that is on their third cycle+ if they think they could do a 12/12 medium day on week 10, then watch the light fade from their eyes.

However since it is a bulking routine you should have a super human recovery factor from all the extra food so it is a manageable routine if you are gaining 3+lbs a cycle.

[briancl2]

Is there a good mobility program that is compatible with Allpro auto-regulated? I had a pretty active recovery day yesterday so I am going to give myself an extra recovery day before hitting the gym to do another full workout, but I'd like to spend some time on mobility. As I've progressed through the program, I am definitely feeling quite stiff on my recovery days and although I'm fairly happy with my current range of motion, I do want to be able to maintain it long term.'

So any recommendations on mobility stuff that can be done on a recovery day? Something less than accessory work/cardio but more than yoga/static stretching?

[nightanole]

Is there a good mobility program that is compatible with Allpro auto-regulated? I had a pretty active recovery day yesterday so I am going to give myself an extra recovery day before hitting the gym to do another full workout, but I'd like to spend some time on mobility. As I've progressed through the program, I am definitely feeling quite stiff on my recovery days and although I'm fairly happy with my current range of motion, I do want to be able to maintain it long term.'

So any recommendations on mobility stuff that can be done on a recovery day? Something less than accessory work/cardio but more than yoga/static stretching?

DeFranco Agile 8 and limber 11 are good for lower body. I havent found anything good for upper yet, and im with rippetoe that doing these for 10-20min is a waste of time, and i sertainly would not static stretch before a lifting session.

[PolishDude83]

Not sure how you are still upright eating 1k a day....


Anyway base diet is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Your solution maybe powdered oats. 3 scoops(100g) in a shaker cup would net about 350 cals, 65g of carb, and 15g of protein. The stuff is cheap too, 10lbs for like 10-15 bucks.

Slow to respond but that did not include lunch, I am sure that is usually close to 1k in calories. I will look into powdered oats.

I am also a little confused how the auto regulate works. I know I will miss a day here and there so would like to plan to use auto regulate on those weeks that I know I will miss a day. How exactly do you auto regulate? Do you still bump up the weight 10% after 5 weeks? It's probably easy but just not understanding it. How does an autoregulate week one of a cycle compare to a non autoregulate week one?

[nightanole]

Slow to respond but that did not include lunch, I am sure that is usually close to 1k in calories. I will look into powdered oats.

I am also a little confused how the auto regulate works. I know I will miss a day here and there so would like to plan to use auto regulate on those weeks that I know I will miss a day. How exactly do you auto regulate? Do you still bump up the weight 10% after 5 weeks? It's probably easy but just not understanding it. How does an autoregulate week one of a cycle compare to a non autoregulate week one?

You cant switch between the 2 patterns, its either the 5 weeks version were you can skip a few light days if you must, or the auto-regulated version.

On auto regulated you always try to get 24 reps in 2 sets with 90 seconds or less rest. its auto-regulated because you will start off with 16-20 reps, and then add a rep every few sessions based on your progression speed. So it still might take you 5 weeks to go from 16 to 24 reps, just like regular allpro, or if you are bulking you might go from 16 to 24 in only a few weeks. Or you might be cutting and it will take you 7-8 weeks to get to 24 reps. on auto-regulated if you take 2 weeks off, you might drop 3-4 reps from your total, and have to work your way back up again. on Regular allpro you just reset to 9 rep week and start the cycle over again.

[MyResolution]

This thread is massive, but browsing here and there, I'm not seeing a lot of progress pictures or testimonials. (I might have missed them with the thousands of posts.) What kind of gains should be expected following this program? I've been in the gym two years. I've put on thirty pounds in the last six months (165 to 195 - fat and muscle), and seen increases in my lifts, but I'm still firmly within novice/beginner territory. I'd like to join that 1,000 pound club before my 35th birthday.

[baldartist]

Love the routine. I am a disabled veteran. I have been cleared to do this workout with 2 changes dictated by my doctor and PT, I had an upper back injury. So in place of barbell squats I am going to do Romanian Split Squats. I figured if the dumbbells get hard to handle I will use straps. I used to love (hate) back squats. And the second modification is switching from flat bench presses to Inclined. They liked my range of motion better in inclined. Otherwise I can run as is.

So Monday I did a trial run and didn't push too hard. I am a little sore today but this is what I did (and my stats).

Age 46m. Lifted for a long time before injury.
Height, 5-7
Weight 176
Monday's workout:

RSS 20 x 8, 30 x 8, 40 x 8, 40 x 8 (I'm pretty sure I can go heavier on this but I am just learning the movement.
IBP 44 x 8, 95 x 8, 2 x 105 x 8
BOR 65 x 8, 95 x 8, 2 x 125 x 8
SLDL 2 x 135 x 8
OHP 2 x 65 x 8
BBC 2 x 50 x 8
I forgot to do the calf raises.

My question is, I didn't really test but I think I am close to my 10rm in most of the lifts except the RSS. Should I do a more formal testing or should I just run it as is?

[baldartist]

This routine reminds me of the routine that came with my first set of barbells. I'm loving the old school feel.

[nightanole]

This thread is massive, but browsing here and there, I'm not seeing a lot of progress pictures or testimonials. (I might have missed them with the thousands of posts.) What kind of gains should be expected following this program? I've been in the gym two years. I've put on thirty pounds in the last six months (165 to 195 - fat and muscle), and seen increases in my lifts, but I'm still firmly within novice/beginner territory. I'd like to join that 1,000 pound club before my 35th birthday.

There is a separate forum on this site for progress threads on various programs (or just your own carcass updates), they are almost never posted in the main threads.

As for expected progress, the program runs 7-9 cycles, to have good progress you are expected to graduate with 13% bf, be able to bench body weight for 10 reps, and be able to squat 1.25-1.5x body weight for 10 reps.

As for the 1000lb club, that normally requires a lifter to be 180-200lbs if they want to achieve it within 18months of picking up their first barbell.
Else and alt for the 1000lb club is to achieve "very strong" on this chart:
http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

[nightanole]

Love the routine. I am a disabled veteran. I have been cleared to do this workout with 2 changes dictated by my doctor and PT, I had an upper back injury. So in place of barbell squats I am going to do Romanian Split Squats. I figured if the dumbbells get hard to handle I will use straps. I used to love (hate) back squats. And the second modification is switching from flat bench presses to Inclined. They liked my range of motion better in inclined. Otherwise I can run as is.

So Monday I did a trial run and didn't push too hard. I am a little sore today but this is what I did (and my stats).

Age 46m. Lifted for a long time before injury.
Height, 5-7
Weight 176
Monday's workout:

RSS 20 x 8, 30 x 8, 40 x 8, 40 x 8 (I'm pretty sure I can go heavier on this but I am just learning the movement.
IBP 44 x 8, 95 x 8, 2 x 105 x 8
BOR 65 x 8, 95 x 8, 2 x 125 x 8
SLDL 2 x 135 x 8
OHP 2 x 65 x 8
BBC 2 x 50 x 8
I forgot to do the calf raises.

My question is, I didn't really test but I think I am close to my 10rm in most of the lifts except the RSS. Should I do a more formal testing or should I just run it as is?

I think you need to cut the weights back a little. weeks 1-2 (and even 3) should be ran with several reps left in the tank on the 2nd set. If weeks 1-2 took almost all you got, fatigue will build up too fast and you will stall.

I would ask your doc if you can do zercher squats(use towel/pad and learn to rest on both arm bones, not elbow socket), they are a much better alt vs Romanian Split Squats. We have several people on the program running them right now due to shoulder problems.

[baldartist]

I think you need to cut the weights back a little. weeks 1-2 (and even 3) should be ran with several reps left in the tank on the 2nd set. If weeks 1-2 took almost all you got, fatigue will build up too fast and you will stall.

I would ask your doc if you can do zercher squats(use towel/pad and learn to rest on both arm bones, not elbow socket), they are a much better alt vs Romanian Split Squats. We have several people on the program running them right now due to shoulder problems.

Zerchers were another favorite of mine. But right now they aggravate the soft tissue damage in my back. Otherwise they would have been my first choice sans back squats. I'm hoping after a few cycles that will be less of an issue.

So I will back off and run it. Thanks!

[briancl2]

This thread is massive, but browsing here and there, I'm not seeing a lot of progress pictures or testimonials. (I might have missed them with the thousands of posts.) What kind of gains should be expected following this program? I've been in the gym two years. I've put on thirty pounds in the last six months (165 to 195 - fat and muscle), and seen increases in my lifts, but I'm still firmly within novice/beginner territory. I'd like to join that 1,000 pound club before my 35th birthday.

I've just finished 2 months on auto-regulated. I started after a few months of regular Allpro, so my starting weights were real. I am 6', 165lbs, 34yo male.

Here is my 2 month Allpro auto-regulated progress:

Squat: 145 -> 170
Bench: 125 -> 145
BOR: 115 -> 145
OHP: 95 -> 95 (8 reps to 12 reps)
SLDL: 95 -> 135
Chin-up: 110 -> 135
Calf: 150 -> 215

I started the regular Allpro at ~155 in February. According to my Withings scale, my BF has gone from 13 to 15% in that same time, so running the numbers, I've gained about 5lbs fat and 5lbs muscle in 5 months running a mix of Allpro regular and Allpro auto-regulated.

[nightanole]

Zerchers were another favorite of mine. But right now they aggravate the soft tissue damage in my back. Otherwise they would have been my first choice sans back squats. I'm hoping after a few cycles that will be less of an issue.

So I will back off and run it. Thanks!

A note about your squat variant (i assume its just the raised rear foot version) Its typically assigned to lifters who have a quad weakness that turns their squat into a good morning. Since you are using is as a main, you will want to lean forward when doing the lift. This is a "cheat" since it deloads the quad, however if you can the weight over mid forward foot at the bottom, it turns it back into a more full body exercise.

[baldartist]

A note about your squat variant (i assume its just the raised rear foot version) Its typically assigned to lifters who have a quad weakness that turns their squat into a good morning. Since you are using is as a main, you will want to lean forward when doing the lift. This is a "cheat" since it deloads the quad, however if you can the weight over mid forward foot at the bottom, it turns it back into a more full body exercise.

Yes rear foot elevated. So yeah that feels more in the glutes as well as quads?

[nightanole]

Yes rear foot elevated. So yeah that feels more in the glutes as well as quads?

yea reg rear foot elevated with weights inline with pelvis is almost all quad. Its basically a leg press.

[Zealex]

Used this program in the past with great results. I gained a few pounds but I can lift a lot more now...with that being said I was thinking of returning to this program but with a few changes:
Start at 6 reps and increase it to 10 reps and incorporate an extra working set, so 3 sets of 6-10 instead of the recommend 2 sets of 8-12.

Bad or good idea? Wanted to lower the rep range to increase strength emphasis and the set increase because I feel like I have a lot of energy left over...

Thanks.

[Guerde]

Its meant to get you to 13%(flexed abs) before you start bulking. So yea you start the program on a cut. However its most efficient if you only lose 1% bw per week. A 20-25% cut is pretty dang deep and may be hard to perform on, that is equivalent to just not eating on the weekends.

Should I lower the cut to 10-15% or just go on recomp/maintain? Thanks!

[nightanole]

Used this program in the past with great results. I gained a few pounds but I can lift a lot more now...with that being said I was thinking of returning to this program but with a few changes:
Start at 6 reps and increase it to 10 reps and incorporate an extra working set, so 3 sets of 6-10 instead of the recommend 2 sets of 8-12.

Bad or good idea? Wanted to lower the rep range to increase strength emphasis and the set increase because I feel like I have a lot of energy left over...

Thanks.

How about you do novice, which is switching squat/bench/row to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest? Test day is still 24 reps.

Should I lower the cut to 10-15% or just go on recomp/maintain? Thanks!

Aim for 1% bw per week tops.

[blackfieldgates]

So I have been doing a neutral grip chin up (or hammer grip) simply because the bars on the assist machine are so far away that they only permit a wide grip chin up (which I understand does not work the lats as much)- but I started doing these assisted chin ups in lieu of the upright row on week 10 of my first cycle- by starting the assisted chin ups halfway through the cycle should I just continue doing them at the same weight for Cycle 2 or is all right to start this exercise at 10 and progress as normal?

[nightanole]

So I have been doing a neutral grip chin up (or hammer grip) simply because the bars on the assist machine are so far away that they only permit a wide grip chin up (which I understand does not work the lats as much)- but I started doing these assisted chin ups in lieu of the upright row on week 10 of my first cycle- by starting the assisted chin ups halfway through the cycle should I just continue doing them at the same weight for Cycle 2 or is all right to start this exercise at 10 and progress as normal?

I assume you mean 10 rep week, and not week 10, since allpro is 5 weeks cycles.

On light day of test week test out something you think you can get 1 set of 10 in with assisted machine, if you get it, use that for next cycle and start over at 8 reps. Else you will have to adjust the assisted weight 5-10lbs to dial it in for 10 reps.

[Znarff]

I passed Cycle 3 with flying colors but I feel like my arms (biceps specifically) are being left behind. I'd like to add pull ups (chin ups specifically) for Cycle 4. Do I add one set after all the workouts on one workout day per week (and which day - heavy/medium/light) or do I add one set every work out day (meaning 3 x a week)?

[nightanole]

I passed Cycle 3 with flying colors but I feel like my arms (biceps specifically) are being left behind. I'd like to add pull ups (chin ups specifically) for Cycle 4. Do I add one set after all the workouts on one workout day per week (and which day - heavy/medium/light) or do I add one set every work out day (meaning 3 x a week)?

Personally i would drop curls and pickup chinups. Till you can do 2 sets of 14, i would just do 2 AMRAP sets with a RPE of 8.5 (1 guaranteed rep left in the tank, and maybe 2 reps left on a good day) each workout. Once you can do 2 sets of 14, you can switch to make medium day body wieght, light day with bands, and heavy day with 10% body weight hanging from your belt. A cheap weight belt can be made out of a $5-10 karate obi belt.

If you wanted some more bicep work, i would add 1 set of seated incline supination curls with an AMRAP of 8.5 at the end of each workout. If your gym has a cable machine, and doesnt brace the elbow, that would be even better since it can apply a continuous 20lb load or whatever, vs free weights which have a peak load in the middle of the rep, and a light load at the top and bottom.

[enr33]

nightanole, Im ready to get back on track with jarheads. Briefly skimmed the sticky but I probably need to re-read it before I get started next week. Is Cellucor No3 a must or am I just wasting my money if I buy more of it?

[nightanole]

nightanole, Im ready to get back on track with jarheads. Briefly skimmed the sticky but I probably need to re-read it before I get started next week. Is Cellucor No3 a must or am I just wasting my money if I buy more of it?

Cellucor No3 is for single joint accessory work. If you use it for multi joint exercises, such as squats and deadlifts, you will have to stop once the pump sets in. Back pump is the worst pump.
C4 has a bit of a pump from the nitro, but i believe you have trouble sleeping, so the caffeine might not be worth the trouble unless you are taking it 12 hours before bed..

[enr33]

Cellucor No3 is for single joint accessory work. If you use it for multi joint exercises, such as squats and deadlifts, you will have to stop once the pump sets in. Back pump is the worst pump.
C4 has a bit of a pump from the nitro, but i believe you have trouble sleeping, so the caffeine might not be worth the trouble unless you are taking it 12 hours before bed..

Can you elaborate on having to stop once the pump sets in?

Also I decided to stop using pre's with caffeine because it makes me anxious and I take large amounts of medicine every morning

[nightanole]

Can you elaborate on having to stop once the pump sets in?

Also I decided to stop using pre's with caffeine because it makes me anxious and I take large amounts of medicine every morning

A pump is a goal. People dont work past a pump. Once you get the pump any reps after that will be in the pain zone. I dont have the chart to post, but imagine this, instead of doing squats 10 reps at 135lbs, instead you do 30 reps with 65lbs. The natural pump is going to come in around rep 20, and any reps after that is going to feel like hell. With No3 that pump is going to come alot sooner, say 10-15 reps instead of 20. So a person is not going to want to do 20 reps because 5-10 reps are going to feel like hell, just like a person is not going to want push through and do 30 reps without No3.

So No3 + high rep compounds = bad idea.

On the other hand No3 would make the 3x3 folk feel like they just did 3x10 or 3x20.


EDIT:

Here ya go:


Now imagine No3 dropping the pump (capillary) one block over. It would make a 12 rep set just as painful as a 24 rep set.

[alboss]

This Sunday I finished cycle 2 of the All Pro's routine. My lifts were:

Squats: 75 lbs
Bench: 110 lbs
Row: 88 lbs
OHP: 53 lbs
SLDL: 70 lbs
EZ Curls: 40 lbs
Calves: 100 lbs

Will be moving 10% on each exercise today starting cycle 3. Exercises are getting a bit tough, and I feel like i might fail rows this coming cycle (hopefully not).

I have posted pics of when i started the program vs today's pics. I don't see much of a difference, even though i shouldn't really expect anything until about six months into the program. My diet was good on first cycle, but on second cycle I think I ate more food than needed and less protein all in all. Therefore I have gained 1 cm (0.4 inches) on my waist.

Is this what I am supposed to expect with this program? Or am I doing something wrong.

[nightanole]

I noticed some chest and core definition, even with you saying you got a little fatter. On allpro(or any beginner program) you are going to have to take side shots because humans get thicker, not wider. Front/back shots are only going to see real change with bf levels. You could put on 10lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat and front and back shots wont change, but sides will be 2" thicker.

Your bench is a bit high compared to the rest of your lifts, so expect that to stall first. If you want an accessory for the row, do a pendlay row with a weight you can only rep out about 2 times guaranteed (maybe a 3rd if your life depended on it). Do one set at the end of each workout. You can drop the pendlays once you feel the row is catching back up.