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  1. #1801
    Registered User lordnoak's Avatar
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    I am going to take a week off next month in order to move. If I am mid cycle (week 2-3 of cycle 4) should I just restart my cycle the following week when I get back to the gym?
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  2. #1802
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordnoak View Post
    I am going to take a week off next month in order to move. If I am mid cycle (week 2-3 of cycle 4) should I just restart my cycle the following week when I get back to the gym?
    You always restart at 9 rep (week 2). If you have been out an extended time (3+ weeks) you may cheat and have a 7 rep week to make it a 6 week cycle. You detrain very quickly, but you also gain it back very quickly. If you take 2 weeks off a 5x5 routine the odds are high your working weight would pin you to the mat the first rep or two.
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  3. #1803
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    Hello bb.com

    43 years old here with 1 year of calisthenics and 6 months of weight, mainly on an A/B full body split with 8 reps range (a bit like SS but with 8 reps). I want to lose a bit fat (5-6kgs) and I'm interested by this routine but I have some questions :

    Can I do it with a 6-10 reps range ?

    Can I replace Curl with V-Handle Pulldown ? I'm not a big fan of isolation exercise...

    I understand the fatigue principle in this routine but... -20% is 6-8 reps, it's really light. Can we try to add 1 or 2 reps by -10% ? For example :
    - Heavy day : 8-12
    - Medium day : 9-13 or 10-14
    - Light day : 10-14 or 12-16
    What's your opinion ?

    I read your recommendations about macros... 100g of protein ? We are not supposed to eat more protein and less carbs when we are on a cut ?

    My last question is more problematic... I must avoid lower back work for the moment, it's not weak but too strong... So I haven't to load too much my lower back. What do you think of this substitutions and this workout ?

    - Zercher Squat (or Jefferson Lift but I don't know this lift, I find it on this forum).
    - Chest supported row
    - Bench press
    - Hip trust or leg curl (your opinion ?)
    - V-Handle lat pulldown
    - Overhead Press
    - Calf raises

    Thank you for your help !


    PS : I don't find the post where you explained the autoregulated version
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  4. #1804
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigpopol View Post
    Hello bb.com

    43 years old here with 1 year of calisthenics and 6 months of weight, mainly on an A/B full body split with 8 reps range (a bit like SS but with 8 reps). I want to lose a bit fat (5-6kgs) and I'm interested by this routine but I have some questions :

    Can I do it with a 6-10 reps range ?

    Can I replace Curl with V-Handle Pulldown ? I'm not a big fan of isolation exercise...

    I understand the fatigue principle in this routine but... -20% is 6-8 reps, it's really light. Can we try to add 1 or 2 reps by -10% ? For example :
    - Heavy day : 8-12
    - Medium day : 9-13 or 10-14
    - Light day : 10-14 or 12-16
    What's your opinion ?

    I read your recommendations about macros... 100g of protein ? We are not supposed to eat more protein and less carbs when we are on a cut ?

    My last question is more problematic... I must avoid lower back work for the moment, it's not weak but too strong... So I haven't to load too much my lower back. What do you think of this substitutions and this workout ?

    - Zercher Squat (or Jefferson Lift but I don't know this lift, I find it on this forum).
    - Chest supported row
    - Bench press
    - Hip trust or leg curl (your opinion ?)
    - V-Handle lat pulldown
    - Overhead Press
    - Calf raises

    Thank you for your help !


    PS : I don't find the post where you explained the autoregulated version
    Based on your questions i would go with this variant.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=164593351
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  5. #1805
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    Hey night, I have been following your program for a few weeks and things are going well. However, I have been struggling to get 200g carbs. I seem to only get in 100 to 150g of carbs. So I just wanted to know what type of foods are good for this program? So far I mainly have brown rice or bread.
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  6. #1806
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SnakeMan22 View Post
    Hey night, I have been following your program for a few weeks and things are going well. However, I have been struggling to get 200g carbs. I seem to only get in 100 to 150g of carbs. So I just wanted to know what type of foods are good for this program? So far I mainly have brown rice or bread.
    There are no bad carbs. rice/oatmeal/bread/honey/fruit/milk, you could even put a few spoon fulls of table sugar on your food during the day if you weigh it out. Unlike fat/protein, there are no bad sugars, fast/slow/complex is marketing. About the only way to screw it up is to get your micros out of wack from eating just candy/oliveoil/protien powder.
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  7. #1807
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Based on your questions i would go with this variant.
    ht*p://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164593351
    Thanks for the link

    And what's tour opinion for 6-10 reps range with original All Pro ? Too challenging ?
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  8. #1808
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigpopol View Post
    Thanks for the link

    And what's tour opinion for 6-10 reps range with original All Pro ? Too challenging ?
    Allpro has 2 patterns, 2 sets of 8-12 reps, or 3 sets of 4-8 reps. You will notice test day is still 24 reps.

    Its based on the math of "if you can add 4 reps, you can do the orginal starting range with 110% of the starting wieght". 6-10 reps would be 20% less volume and may not be enough to force progression.
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  9. #1809
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    Ok ! I miss this point, 24 reps. Now this is clear. Thanks
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  10. #1810
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    so i am on cycle 2 week 4. Yesterday (Tuesday) i realized I was gonna be on a trip from friday to sunday. in order to compensate for the missing light day at the end of the week, i decided to do 3 sets of each exercise yesterday, and I plan to do 3 sets of each with medium weight tomorrow (48 hours of rest in between). Is this an acceptable approach to compensate for a missing third session?
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  11. #1811
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alboss View Post
    so i am on cycle 2 week 4. Yesterday (Tuesday) i realized I was gonna be on a trip from friday to sunday. in order to compensate for the missing light day at the end of the week, i decided to do 3 sets of each exercise yesterday, and I plan to do 3 sets of each with medium weight tomorrow (48 hours of rest in between). Is this an acceptable approach to compensate for a missing third session?
    if you are on week 4 then test week is up next, do not over do it. The normal pattern is heavy heavy, and skip the 3rd day, or you are allowed to skip 1-2 light days per cycle.
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  12. #1812
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    Looks like a great program. I started today. I'd really let myself go - and I was never that fit in the first place. But 2 years ago I weighed 215 and squatted in the 300s for reps, and now I weight 275 and tested my 10rm squat at 160. Oy. Well, only one thing to do about it - get under the barbell.
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  13. #1813
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    Hi!

    I just took another look at the program after feeling a lot of strain on my back for the past couple of weeks, and I noticed that I ignored half (or more...) of what you said.
    I did 4 sets of full weight, 3 times a week. instead of decreasing the weight by 10% each time. (and increasing the reps between weeks).

    Anyway, after taking a more thorough look, I'd like to ask if I can substitute the BORs for Pendlay rows? I feel like having the weight up in the air while being bent over the bar in a certain degree just puts too much tension on my lower back, and that by putting the weight down after each rep I might get the rest I need while still having the same muscles work.

    Any input?

    Thank you!
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  14. #1814
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deskLife View Post
    Hi!

    I just took another look at the program after feeling a lot of strain on my back for the past couple of weeks, and I noticed that I ignored half (or more...) of what you said.
    I did 4 sets of full weight, 3 times a week. instead of decreasing the weight by 10% each time. (and increasing the reps between weeks).

    Anyway, after taking a more thorough look, I'd like to ask if I can substitute the BORs for Pendlay rows? I feel like having the weight up in the air while being bent over the bar in a certain degree just puts too much tension on my lower back, and that by putting the weight down after each rep I might get the rest I need while still having the same muscles work.

    Any input?

    Thank you!
    First off every exercise only has 2 working sets. The first 3 exericises also have 2 warmup sets.

    As for switching from 45 degree row to a pendlay, there are a few issues. First the 45 degree row will put on the most "meat". The pendlay is a deadlift accessory for building explosiveness off the floor. The pendlay should be done with a weight so heavy that if you dog it off the floor you will never be able to lock it out. So if you are going to sub pendlay you need to change the progression pattern. The pendlay progression patterns is sets of 3 reps, with 30 seconds of rest. If you can get in 10 sets, you add 5lbs (which is a huge amount of volume over 10 sets). You do not do heavy/medium/light. It shouldnt take you more than 10min to complete the exercise, i timed it around 7min.

    If you want you can sub the 45degree row with a chinup, if you can rig up a progressing mechanism(assisted chinup machine, bands, etc). The other alt is the inverted row, but again you have to rig up a progression scheme. The final alt is the T bar row, which takes the back out of the equation, but i dont recommend it for beginners because its too easy to screw up the form.
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  15. #1815
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    Going to give this routine another go. I have not been able to train consistently for the past 2 months due to an illness and have lost a lot of muscle, but I am better now so I figure this routine is where I should start back again. I am not a fan of "high bar" back squats however, and always seem to get a pinching in my lower back when I do them. Is it okay for me to do front squats instead, since they are more of a knee dominant exercise?
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  16. #1816
    Registered User UncleLemmon's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me why the light, medium and heavy? i'm finding my heavy day too light at the moment. im on my 11 reps of my 3rd proper cycle, at the end of this cycle im going to re-evaluate. ok my OHP is still a bit weak, i struggle a bit with that 11th rep but the following day i have little ache and by the next weight day i'm fine. and the rest i find too easy. probably because i'm a beginner and the weights arnt yet enough to really tire the muscles out and/or i don't yet have enough muscle mass ratio to be tired out enough to notice.. does make sense?

    this cycle i have been doing just heavy days (with warm ups for all excercises) every weight day, if and when the time comes that i'm still warn out on a following weight day i'll start doing the light, medium days. is it ok to continue like this or is it detrimental to growth?
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  17. #1817
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    First off every exercise only has 2 working sets. The first 3 exericises also have 2 warmup sets.

    As for switching from 45 degree row to a pendlay, there are a few issues. First the 45 degree row will put on the most "meat". The pendlay is a deadlift accessory for building explosiveness off the floor. The pendlay should be done with a weight so heavy that if you dog it off the floor you will never be able to lock it out. So if you are going to sub pendlay you need to change the progression pattern. The pendlay progression patterns is sets of 3 reps, with 30 seconds of rest. If you can get in 10 sets, you add 5lbs (which is a huge amount of volume over 10 sets). You do not do heavy/medium/light. It shouldnt take you more than 10min to complete the exercise, i timed it around 7min.

    If you want you can sub the 45degree row with a chinup, if you can rig up a progressing mechanism(assisted chinup machine, bands, etc). The other alt is the inverted row, but again you have to rig up a progression scheme. The final alt is the T bar row, which takes the back out of the equation, but i dont recommend it for beginners because its too easy to screw up the form.
    The thing is, I feel that I over stimulate my lower back with this workout... I just watched a few how-to's and technique videos and tried to squat without any weights, and I could feel the same pain in my back.. Seems as if I injured it or put too much strain on it, and I have to recover.
    I tried focusing on removing the butt-wink during squats, could that be the cause of the pain?

    and just to be clear - when doing BORs I should aim for a 45 degree angle between my upper body and the floor, yes?

    Thank you
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  18. #1818
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adambannon View Post
    Going to give this routine another go. I have not been able to train consistently for the past 2 months due to an illness and have lost a lot of muscle, but I am better now so I figure this routine is where I should start back again. I am not a fan of "high bar" back squats however, and always seem to get a pinching in my lower back when I do them. Is it okay for me to do front squats instead, since they are more of a knee dominant exercise?
    I would prefer zercher squats...
    But yes you can do front squats. Expect some hip weakness, and some lower back endurance issues. Also expect to have a very sore mid back for a cycle.

    Originally Posted by UncleLemmon View Post
    Can someone explain to me why the light, medium and heavy? i'm finding my heavy day too light at the moment. im on my 11 reps of my 3rd proper cycle, at the end of this cycle im going to re-evaluate. ok my OHP is still a bit weak, i struggle a bit with that 11th rep but the following day i have little ache and by the next weight day i'm fine. and the rest i find too easy. probably because i'm a beginner and the weights arnt yet enough to really tire the muscles out and/or i don't yet have enough muscle mass ratio to be tired out enough to notice.. does make sense?

    this cycle i have been doing just heavy days (with warm ups for all excercises) every weight day, if and when the time comes that i'm still warn out on a following weight day i'll start doing the light, medium days. is it ok to continue like this or is it detrimental to growth?
    Heavy day= something you can not repeat every 48 hours without dropping the weight
    Medium day= requires the most effort of the weak due to still recovering from heavy day
    lightday= mini deload for joints/connecting tissue, while still adding some fatigue and CNS.

    If its too easy, reduce the rest time, some only have 30 seconds rest on light day. As for the other too easy complaints, 10% bumps is the min, not the max. Some can double their squat in 3 cycles just from practice.

    for your OHP complaint, it sounds like you have a lever problem. Odds are elbow is not under wrist at the bottom of the movment, or you are keeping the bar too far from center.

    since you are on cycle 3, you can try auto regulated:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513
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  19. #1819
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deskLife View Post
    The thing is, I feel that I over stimulate my lower back with this workout... I just watched a few how-to's and technique videos and tried to squat without any weights, and I could feel the same pain in my back.. Seems as if I injured it or put too much strain on it, and I have to recover.
    I tried focusing on removing the butt-wink during squats, could that be the cause of the pain?

    and just to be clear - when doing BORs I should aim for a 45 degree angle between my upper body and the floor, yes?

    Thank you
    Lowe back pain is normally caused by using the spinal erectors to help move the weight. aka "backing it up". The little guys only job is to maintain your back arch, if they have to do dynamic movements they will fatigue incredibly fast. Im guessing you compromise your back arch in the row or SLDL.

    And yes the bent over row is 45-60 degrees.
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  20. #1820
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    I would prefer zercher squats...
    But yes you can do front squats. Expect some hip weakness, and some lower back endurance issues. Also expect to have a very sore mid back for a cycle.
    Thanks a lot! I might give those zercher squats ago before I do a test day and see how they feel.
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  21. #1821
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    I just finished my second week of my first cycle and am loving the program. I am doing every exercise as it is shown. But I am finding the Upright Row is causing me pretty bad shoulder and wrist pain. I have tried to follow the advice on these threads and what All Pro suggested- I lift it so I am like a T and never have it go high up to the ears like so many videos suggest. I have tried using an EZ bar to alleviate this pain but it hasn't done me much good. Annoyingly it causes a click in my shoulder and numbness in the forearm.

    I'm lifting it at 15kg / 33lbs on the heavy day- am I perhaps lifting it too heavy? Or should I consider using dumbbells for this exercise instead?
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  22. #1822
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blackfieldgates View Post
    I just finished my second week of my first cycle and am loving the program. I am doing every exercise as it is shown. But I am finding the Upright Row is causing me pretty bad shoulder and wrist pain. I have tried to follow the advice on these threads and what All Pro suggested- I lift it so I am like a T and never have it go high up to the ears like so many videos suggest. I have tried using an EZ bar to alleviate this pain but it hasn't done me much good. Annoyingly it causes a click in my shoulder and numbness in the forearm.

    I'm lifting it at 15kg / 33lbs on the heavy day- am I perhaps lifting it too heavy? Or should I consider using dumbbells for this exercise instead?
    Not everyone can do this exercise (just like not everyone can do dips) so its not part of the core program. If you have the form correct, you should have tuned your grip width so your range of motion ends when you make that T you mentioned. You got it wrong if you just "stop" at the T, that means your grip is too narrow. Else just do the good old curl, you may need the additional bicep work vs yet another compound that has the bicep as a secondary muscle group. Or, in my particular opinion, switch to a chinup (not pullup).

    Else you can try slightly bent over side laterals (so you dont start favoring the weak muscles when you get tired) and face pulls. Over the years the main cosmetic weakness i have seen in allpro users is lat and side delt towards the end. You may or may not need to work on these areas, but keep a look out.
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  23. #1823
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    Haven't trained consistently for 7 years; been on and off for between two and six months at a time over that period and always inconsistent with the program being used.

    Started back on the OG program today but substituted leg press for squats due to a hip issue - as soon as it's sorted I'll be squatting like a boss - and I'm fukin sore as, but can't wait for Monday for day 2.

    I feel like I'm back at home in the gym.
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  24. #1824
    Registered User blackfieldgates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Not everyone can do this exercise (just like not everyone can do dips) so its not part of the core program. If you have the form correct, you should have tuned your grip width so your range of motion ends when you make that T you mentioned. You got it wrong if you just "stop" at the T, that means your grip is too narrow. Else just do the good old curl, you may need the additional bicep work vs yet another compound that has the bicep as a secondary muscle group. Or, in my particular opinion, switch to a chinup (not pullup).

    Else you can try slightly bent over side laterals (so you dont start favoring the weak muscles when you get tired) and face pulls. Over the years the main cosmetic weakness i have seen in allpro users is lat and side delt towards the end. You may or may not need to work on these areas, but keep a look out.
    Thanks a lot! So if I understand right you are saying that the upright row can be replaced by a barbell curl and a chin up AND/OR bent over side laterals and facepulls? In terms of progression would I do, say, 8-12 assisted chin ups and lessen the weight that is assisting me on the machine by the same percentage as I increase the weight of everything else? And where in the program's order would these best go?
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  25. #1825
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blackfieldgates View Post
    Thanks a lot! So if I understand right you are saying that the upright row can be replaced by a barbell curl and a chin up AND/OR bent over side laterals and facepulls? In terms of progression would I do, say, 8-12 assisted chin ups and lessen the weight that is assisting me on the machine by the same percentage as I increase the weight of everything else? And where in the program's order would these best go?
    If you have an assisted chinup machine, drop the upright rows/curls and replace them with the machine. Still use the same 8-12 reps and heavy/medium/light. And yes do them at the end, when normally you would do the curl.

    I mentioned those other 2 good accessories, to be done towards the end of the program if needed. Throw too much volume at your self now and you will stall on the program.
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    Gave those Zercher squats a try. They felt quite good on my back in comparison to a high bar back squat that's for sure. It was hard for me to judge my depth, I just lowered myself down until my elbows roughly touched my knees, so I assume that is about parallel. The only thing is it kills my elbows especially when I first take the bar out of the rack. Is this something you can build a tolerance up to over time, or is it worth investing in some elbow sleeves?
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adambannon View Post
    Gave those Zercher squats a try. They felt quite good on my back in comparison to a high bar back squat that's for sure. It was hard for me to judge my depth, I just lowered myself down until my elbows roughly touched my knees, so I assume that is about parallel. The only thing is it kills my elbows especially when I first take the bar out of the rack. Is this something you can build a tolerance up to over time, or is it worth investing in some elbow sleeves?
    Wrap it in a towel, or learn to rest it on BOTH arm bones and not just one, or worse, in your elbow socket. You can do these with 400-500lbs semi pain free once you get the form down. Resting 400-500lbs directly on bone or in a socket is gonna hurt like hell.
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    Yo nightanole, just wondering - you've got a great grasp on exercise physiology from what I've seen; are you following any programs yourself, or are you more like an exercise scientist of sorts?

    Whatever the case, looking forward to seeing continued progress and reading the information you've given to get fukin swole
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LargePeter View Post
    Yo nightanole, just wondering - you've got a great grasp on exercise physiology from what I've seen; are you following any programs yourself, or are you more like an exercise scientist of sorts?

    Whatever the case, looking forward to seeing continued progress and reading the information you've given to get fukin swole
    I picked allpro a few years ago for rehab after losing about 30lbs from a medical trace element problem. I liked the program since i hate long rest periods (on 5x5 i believe 95% of your gym time is recovery).

    But yea no matter what program i run, its with the core allpro lifts.

    Right now its hot as hell in the dungeon so im running this since its water conservation time:

    A)
    5 rep squat with something you have lifted before 6-7 times(RPE 8), do this for 4 sets with 1 hour rest
    5 rep super set of OHP(or push press) and pendlay row, use same weight for both, clean ohp from floor, adjust row reps to match ohp RPE. Do 4 sets with 30-60min rests

    B)
    5 rep deadlift with something you have lifted before 6-7 times, do this for 4 sets with 1 hour rest
    5 rep super set of chest dips and chinups. Adjust reps for RPE 8, add weight if you get over 8 reps. Do this for 4 sets with 30-60min rests

    AB rest AB rest rest

    I can do this without breaking a sweat when its 90+ in the garage. The whole "sweat" thing is for medical reasons due to my trace element problem.
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  30. #1830
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    Is this workout ideal for fat loss? I'm on a calorie deficit, which is around 20-25% calories less. Thanks!
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