AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Finally managed 2x12 50kg bench today on AllPro auto-regulated while on a cut. Previous session I completed OHP 32.5kg 2x12, so it's weird upper body has increased but my lower body is still stuck at 90kg squats and 75kg SLDL (both 2x10). Bodyweight seems to have stopped dropping now on 1900 calories, so I'm dropping to 1800 to see what happens. I've actually been running this with 3x16-20 facepulls and 2 or 3x10 chinups depending on how I'm feeling.

My squat and dead will start to stall if i do too many chinups/pullups, my mid back starts to round from all the fatigue. You may want to cut the chins down to 1 set for 2 weeks just to see if it changes anything.

[WrathfulOne]

My squat and dead will start to stall if i do too many chinups/pullups, my mid back starts to round from all the fatigue. You may want to cut the chins down to 1 set for 2 weeks just to see if it changes anything.

Ah I see, I will give that a go then. I'm just in that mindset of "burn more calories!" when I go to gym now since I'm finally trying to get visible abs. Been following either Fierce 5/AllPro/5-3-1 for the past 2 years and not a single ab was seen. Also my strength gains have been pathetic - max I've squatted in this time is 105kgx4 I believe, and my bench is only just reached 50kgx12 since I had to take like 2 months off pressing due to tendonitis and lost all my meager gains. I think I did too many u-turns with a short bulk then thinking I'm too fat, then a short cut then thinking I'm too puny then repeat so I got neither strong nor lean.

I think people should really stick to one goal until they achieve it then reevaluate, so like you've said here, run AllPro until you have abs and then bulk.

[imthedan]

Hey guys,

is this program appropriate for high fat loss?

[nightanole]

Hey guys,

is this program appropriate for high fat loss?

Its designed so you can progress while losing 1% bw per week till around 13% bf, then you have to lean bulk to continue progression.

[petropietro]

Hi Nightanole - probably been asked before in one of these parts, but what are the thoughts on incline bench instead of flat? Thinking ahead for cycle 4 (half way through cycle 3 at the mo). Wanted to target my upper chest a bit more. OK to do so long as I can continue at the same weights level?

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole - probably been asked before in one of these parts, but what are the thoughts on incline bench instead of flat? Thinking ahead for cycle 4 (half way through cycle 3 at the mo). Wanted to target my upper chest a bit more. OK to do so long as I can continue at the same weights level?

The "pec" is a fan muscle, its all or nothing. You can not workout the bottom more than the top, or target the inner, or any other bull crap. You can increase tension on the upper vs lower of the pec by doing reverse grip bench, but since its impossible to change a muscles shape with exercise, its still not going to "fill out the top"or something.

Incline increases the rom and deloads the chest alittle and loads the shoulder a little more. I do a slight decline for my volume work because my shoulders like it more, and im still doing OHP, so what ev.
Instead of switching up bench, can you do a "chest dip"? It would be a very good accessory to add at the end since you would be on cycle 4.

Other wise here is what you are trying to hit, and good luck isolating it, its all bro science from here on out. It would be like trying to hit certain parts of the quad.
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisClavicular.html

[petropietro]

The "pec" is a fan muscle, its all or nothing. You can not workout the bottom more than the top, or target the inner, or any other bull crap. You can increase tension on the upper vs lower of the pec by doing reverse grip bench, but since its impossible to change a muscles shape with exercise, its still not going to "fill out the top"or something.

Incline increases the rom and deloads the chest alittle and loads the shoulder a little more. I do a slight decline for my volume work because my shoulders like it more, and im still doing OHP, so what ev.
Instead of switching up bench, can you do a "chest dip"? It would be a very good accessory to add at the end since you would be on cycle 4.

Other wise here is what you are trying to hit, and good luck isolating it, its all bro science from here on out. It would be like trying to hit certain parts of the quad.

Thanks man - yeah I wondered how much was bioscience. Tbph I havent got neeearly enough muscle mass to be "targeting" anything but since I'm restricted to dumbbells and find the incline position a bit more comfortable for foot placement / leg drive. No harm in trying the switch for a cycle or 2 I guess.

No I don't have access to dip bars (or a stable equivalent) as I'm working out at home. I think on cycle 4 I'm gonna try and do chin ups (negatives only til I've got the strength) as my additional. Although I know you've said before that delt work could be lagging so maybe I'll try (negative) pull ups. Or maybe just lateral raises if the pull ups are a bridge too far at this stage for me.

Thx as ever

[nightanole]

Thanks man - yeah I wondered how much was bioscience. Tbph I havent got neeearly enough muscle mass to be "targeting" anything but since I'm restricted to dumbbells and find the incline position a bit more comfortable for foot placement / leg drive. No harm in trying the switch for a cycle or 2 I guess.

No I don't have access to dip bars (or a stable equivalent) as I'm working out at home. I think on cycle 4 I'm gonna try and do chin ups (negatives only til I've got the strength) as my additional. Although I know you've said before that delt work could be lagging so maybe I'll try (negative) pull ups. Or maybe just lateral raises if the pull ups are a bridge too far at this stage for me.

Thx as ever

You can make i dip station cheap, or even use to very sturdy wooden chairs.

For next cycle, after the workout, i would super set chinup negatives and lateral raises for about 2 minutes. Spend 15-20 seconds per movement so you get in 3-4 sets. One tip for lateral raises is to do them slightly bent over so the front delt does not take over when you get fatigued.

[enr33]

nightanole pls check your pm inbox

[ChuckWebner]

I am just starting to lift weights and this looks like something I should follow, but I have some questions. Like it says you should follow the program exactly and since I am new and don't really know what I'm doing I would think that would be the best thing to do. What if I want to be able to improve pull ups and push ups but at the same time not neglect other parts of the body, do I have to focus on 1 or the other or can you work pushups/pullups in too? Also if you fail to get the 12 reps on the 5th week, why do you go back down to 8 reps with the same weight on the next week and work back up to 12 reps, and not just try the 12 reps the week after? Also I like to run a lot usually 20 miles or more a week, can I continue the running and do this program or do I just have to focus on one or the other.

[petropietro]

You can make i dip station cheap, or even use to very sturdy wooden chairs.

For next cycle, after the workout, i would super set chinup negatives and lateral raises for about 2 minutes. Spend 15-20 seconds per movement so you get in 3-4 sets. One tip for lateral raises is to do them slightly bent over so the front delt does not take over when you get fatigued.

Thanks man - sounds like a good plan.

Side lateral raises (standing but slightly bent over like you say), or bent over lateral raises? I can't post links but I saw two different types when I just googled it and wanted to be sure.

[nightanole]

Thanks man - sounds like a good plan.

Side lateral raises (standing but slightly bent over like you say), or bent over lateral raises? I can't post links but I saw two different types when I just googled it and wanted to be sure.

Just a slight bend(not like a 45 degree row version). If you have perfect form you can stand perfect up, but most will tend to rely on the big movers when the side delt gets tired.

[nightanole]

I am just starting to lift weights and this looks like something I should follow, but I have some questions. Like it says you should follow the program exactly and since I am new and don't really know what I'm doing I would think that would be the best thing to do. What if I want to be able to improve pull ups and push ups but at the same time not neglect other parts of the body, do I have to focus on 1 or the other or can you work pushups/pullups in too? Also if you fail to get the 12 reps on the 5th week, why do you go back down to 8 reps with the same weight on the next week and work back up to 12 reps, and not just try the 12 reps the week after? Also I like to run a lot usually 20 miles or more a week, can I continue the running and do this program or do I just have to focus on one or the other.

If you can replace the curl with the chinup, pullups are not recommended on the program.

This is a fatigue buildup program, reps to failure will bury you since you are not allowed to recover. The whole system revolves around the fact that if you can add 4 reps to a set, you can do the original rep range with 110% of the load. If you cant get 2 sets of 12, you are not going get 2 sets of 8 @110%.

recommended cardio is 3x10k jogs, so i think you are good.

[petropietro]

Just a slight bend(not like a 45 degree row version). If you have perfect form you can stand perfect up, but most will tend to rely on the big movers when the side delt gets tired.

Thanks

So at the end of the usual all pro routine I superset:

Chinup negative - 15-20 secs as many negs as poss, straight on to:
Lateral raise - 15-20 secs as many reps as poss.

Do this superset for 2-3 mins.

[skodins2231]

Ah I see, I will give that a go then. I'm just in that mindset of "burn more calories!" when I go to gym now since I'm finally trying to get visible abs. Been following either Fierce 5/AllPro/5-3-1 for the past 2 years and not a single ab was seen. Also my strength gains have been pathetic - max I've squatted in this time is 105kgx4 I believe, and my bench is only just reached 50kgx12 since I had to take like 2 months off pressing due to tendonitis and lost all my meager gains. I think I did too many u-turns with a short bulk then thinking I'm too fat, then a short cut then thinking I'm too puny then repeat so I got neither strong nor lean.

I think people should really stick to one goal until they achieve it then reevaluate, so like you've said here, run AllPro until you have abs and then bulk.

Agree as well. I've done some of the same where struggle to commit to bulk/cut. Trying right now to over commit to a cut because then it should make a long bulk that much easier to maintain.

[WrathfulOne]

Agree as well. I've done some of the same where struggle to commit to bulk/cut. Trying right now to over commit to a cut because then it should make a long bulk that much easier to maintain.

Yeah same here, really want to get rid of as much fat as possible so I can do a decent long bulk and get some proper gains again. I'm at that horrible point where it's the dreaded "skinny fat" look - I look small and weak but I still have belly fat, so it's like WTF have I been beating myself up in gym for these past 2+ years . And like I said, I haven't been doing some bro-split bollocks, I've been running Fierce 5/AllPro/5-3-1 (and a few months on each, not hopping around every few weeks).

[petropietro]

Oh man. After 2 years of lifting? How much have your core lifts gone up by if you don't mind me asking. From > to? :/

[WrathfulOne]

Oh man. After 2 years of lifting? How much have your core lifts gone up by if you don't mind me asking. From > to? :/

The depressing thing is I actually hit most of my maxes within like the first 6 weeks of lifting since I was on Starting Strength (didn't mention it since it was 6 weeks out of over 2 years). In those 6 weeks I went from empty bar to:

5x70kg bench press
5x75kg squats
5x45kg OHP
5x100kg deadlifts

During those 75kg squats I felt something "tear" in my stomach muscles, felt like a hernia and freaked me out so I was put off low rep training and switched to AllPro for about 6 months. I can't remember the exact numbers I got up to then, but during those 5/6 cycles I ended up spinning my wheels for about 3 of them I think. I remember Nightanole helping me out a lot since I kept failing OHP in particular, it just wasn't going up. Now bearing in mind I dropped the weights on AllPro since I was just starting it and had to use 10RM, I think by the end of it I probably just worked myself back up to where I already got to on SS...

So since I was frustrated at the lack on progress on AllPro, I switched to Fierce 5 and ran that for a few months. Eventually I got to like (all 5RM):
90kg squats
70kg bench press
47.5kg OHP
125kg deadlift

Then I cut for a while, so I spun my wheels (weights don't go up on a deficit generally) and then I was forced to switch to a 2 day routine due to family stuff, so I chose 5-3-1 since it was the only one I googled which had a 2 day version (I bought Beyond 531). Now I had to drop the weight again since it was a new program and it doesn't have 3x5, it's all percentage based. I ran it for like 2/3 months before I got terrible tendinitis in my left bicep and I had to stop all pressing movements and back squats for like 2 months. So by the end I probably just maintained my strength. When I was healed I went back on fierce 5 and got up to:
105kg squats
70kg bench press
75kg front squats
45kg OHP
(no more deadlifts, so don't know about those)

I plateaued on there since I started cutting, so I switched to AllPro auto-regulated since I thought it would be easier to cut on, and here I am with:
90kgx10 squats
52.5kgx10 bench press
35kgx10 OHP

So that's all I have to show for my hard work lol. And I haven't screwed around either, I've tracked my macros and had my protein shakes even at work and tried to eat a lot to keep progressing (coconut oil, oats, peanut butter, chicken, eggs all the good stuff). I've stuck to going 3x per week the entire time too, with just 2 months off due to that injury and 1 month earlier this year due to illness.

I think overall the biggest cause of failure was not committing to a bulk for long enough. Generally my bodyweight would be around 74kg (5'10"), I would bulk to maybe 78kg and then my wife would keep complaining I was too fat, so I would cut back to 74kg, then I would think I was too small and bulk again to 78kg. Not sticking to the same program until I hit intermediate level didn't help either, but some of that was out of my control.

TLDR: Run a good program and choose a bulk or cut target and STICK TO IT until you achieve it!

[deskLife]

Hi guys, I have a question about this routine.

I'm 23, 179 cm (5'11?), 71kg (156 lbs).
Starting going to the gym again a couple of months ago, after a few years in which I didn't do much exercise.

Anyway, when I do a whole workout, I usually feel pain in my lower back that sticks with me for a few days.
I think it's because of the Stiff Legged Deadlift and the Bent Over Rows, in which the barbell is hanging above the ground and you're bent in pretty much a similar position. I think that all the pressure caused by both these exercises is what is giving me lower back pain.
Note - I don't lift heavy weights, about 50kg BOR and 60kg SLD... starting weights.

I don't think I'm doing these exercises with bad techniques, I filmed a couple of reps and I thought my back was straight and didn't move. I can post some vids maybe after my next session at the gym.

I wanted to know if this happens to anyone else? Should I switch one of these exercises?

Thanks!

[nightanole]

Hi guys, I have a question about this routine.

I'm 23, 179 cm (5'11?), 71kg (156 lbs).
Starting going to the gym again a couple of months ago, after a few years in which I didn't do much exercise.

Anyway, when I do a whole workout, I usually feel pain in my lower back that sticks with me for a few days.
I think it's because of the Stiff Legged Deadlift and the Bent Over Rows, in which the barbell is hanging above the ground and you're bent in pretty much a similar position. I think that all the pressure caused by both these exercises is what is giving me lower back pain.
Note - I don't lift heavy weights, about 50kg BOR and 60kg SLD... starting weights.

I don't think I'm doing these exercises with bad techniques, I filmed a couple of reps and I thought my back was straight and didn't move. I can post some vids maybe after my next session at the gym.

I wanted to know if this happens to anyone else? Should I switch one of these exercises?

Thanks!

Generally that only happens with bad technique, and it could be in any of the exercises. Any time you are flexing your back, its creating a lot of fatigue, it should be a static hold. So its possible you are using your spinal erectors dynamically instead of using your glutes/hamstrings. It could be your are using your abs to push your chest down, which is doing nothing but adding more tension to the spinal erectors. And it might be the squat that is causing all the fatigue, and it is just showing up because now you are very fatigued going into the row and SLDL.

2 things. 1) that SLDL seems very high, its a hamstring stretch and most cant get much past their knees, and the weight should be less that your squat. You should not be using massive weight like a normal or RDL.
2) id use somewhere between 45-95lbs and see if you can pause in the hole of the squat for 30-60 seconds while breathing. That will encourage proper core bracing and show off if you are putting all the pressure on your spinal erectors, or if you are putting it on your hips where it belongs.

[35dollars]

I'm planning on starting this routine shortly, but have a question about mixing it with cardio.

I commute to work by bike 5 days a week: 20 miles/90 minutes total round trip each day. I'm figuring that the best way to fit the routine around this is to do heavy day Saturday or Sunday, 2 days off then medium Tuesday or Wednesday, one day off then light day Thursday or Friday.

Any comments on this or other suggestions on mixing the routine with the cycling?

[nightanole]

I'm planning on starting this routine shortly, but have a question about mixing it with cardio.

I commute to work by bike 5 days a week: 20 miles/90 minutes total round trip each day. I'm figuring that the best way to fit the routine around this is to do heavy day Saturday or Sunday, 2 days off then medium Tuesday or Wednesday, one day off then light day Thursday or Friday.

Any comments on this or other suggestions on mixing the routine with the cycling?

Mandatory 72 hours off before doing a heavy. You also cant take 2 days off and then do a medium, you wont have any fatigue build up left over from heavy day. Once you are in the groove medium day should require the most effort.

You can cycle till you are blue in the face, just adjust calories to compensate for the additional TDEE. The recommended cardio is 3x10k jogs, that translates to 3x20-25k bike rides that take an hour each at least. As long as the bike pace is sustainable for at least 45min you can do it as much as you want. What you dont want to do is "race" and do sub 20min 5k runs, etc. Those will tax your glycogen stores, which are already taxed hard on the 2nd set of allpro, and take 8 hours or more to recover.

[BartAllen2]

With Squats, Bench Presses, Bent-Over Rows, Overhead Barbell Presses, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls and Calf Raises would you recommend 30mins of Cardio before or after?

What leg base exercises etc would you recommend? Leg presses and/or leg extensions? Implementing them during each gym visit (for me that would be each of the three days I go to the gym) Or would simply the Squats, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts and Calf Raises negate the need for those machine-based leg exercises?

Many thanks!

[nightanole]

With Squats, Bench Presses, Bent-Over Rows, Overhead Barbell Presses, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts, Barbell Curls and Calf Raises would you recommend 30mins of Cardio before or after?

What leg base exercises etc would you recommend? Leg presses and/or leg extensions? Implementing them during each gym visit (for me that would be each of the three days I go to the gym) Or would simply the Squats, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts and Calf Raises negate the need for those machine-based leg exercises?

Many thanks!

Any cardio should be done after the workout, or at least completed 8 hours before the workout.

Dont add anything to the program till you passed at least 2 test days and know how your body is responding. For all you know adding more leg work will cause a stall or a muscle imbalance.

You are doing 12 sets for each muscle per week on the normal program. That should meet the volume needs for 90% of the public. After 5 years of lifting you might need 18 sets.

[Phoenixfires]

I've been on and off the Allpro routine for around 2 years. I've been really bad about keeping up with it. I have pretty bad hours at work, so the shorter the routine, the better. I'm wondering if I should switch routines, or stick to this one. I've made good gains, but I've had to stop for 2 weeks sometimes due to work, making it tough to progress. I've also not been very disciplined, but I think I can commit to twice a week at least.

[nightanole]

I've been on and off the Allpro routine for around 2 years. I've been really bad about keeping up with it. I have pretty bad hours at work, so the shorter the routine, the better. I'm wondering if I should switch routines, or stick to this one. I've made good gains, but I've had to stop for 2 weeks sometimes due to work, making it tough to progress. I've also not been very disciplined, but I think I can commit to twice a week at least.

Run auto regulated, you can pick up where you left off as long as its not weeks between sessions.

[giorgi3092]

This thread helped me a lot Thank you OP

[WrathfulOne]

Is there any harm in spinning your wheels for ages on the auto-reg version (cutting)? Today I finally went up in bench, rows and SLDL but my squat has been the same for 3 weeks now. Isn't it bad to keep pushing your max for a long time? Should I just take a deload even if I feel fine?

[nightanole]

Is there any harm in spinning your wheels for ages on the auto-reg version (cutting)? Today I finally went up in bench, rows and SLDL but my squat has been the same for 3 weeks now. Isn't it bad to keep pushing your max for a long time? Should I just take a deload even if I feel fine?

If you are on regular, you should be hitting both sets of 10 on week 3 each cycle if you are trying to cut down to below 13-15%. Its almost impossible to progress when going for abs, or cutting while having flexed abs.

So as long as your numbers are not going down month to month, yet your weight is going down, i would call that a win You are still increasing your power to weight ratio.

[FatSoonGone]

So just to understand. Correct me if I'm wrong. For squats my 10 rep max is 135

So day 1 week 1
33x8 warmup
67x8 warmup
135x 8
135 x 8

Day 2 10 percent less
30x8 warmup
61x8 warmup
122 x8
122 x 8

Day 3 20 percent less
28x 8 warmup
54x8 warmup
108x 8
108 x8

I rounded off to whole numbers.