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  1. #1561
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    Thanks. I dont quite understand what your saying about doing 3 sets instead of 2 on the first 3 lifts
    Long term heavy heavy should be done with 3 sets of bench/row/squats to make up for the lost volume from the missing day. Test day is still 2 sets of 12, but weekly volume still needs to be 6 sets a week.
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  2. #1562
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Long term heavy heavy should be done with 3 sets of bench/row/squats to make up for the lost volume from the missing day. Test day is still 2 sets of 12, but weekly volume still needs to be 6 sets a week.
    Sorry, Im still a bit confused. So since im doing 2 heavies this week, tommorow and friday for bench, row and squat I'll do 3 sets of 8 using my full work sets weight rather than the 1/4 and 1/2 working set weight that Id normally do for warmups if I was lifting 3 days a week?
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  3. #1563
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    Sorry, Im still a bit confused. So since im doing 2 heavies this week, tommorow and friday for bench, row and squat I'll do 3 sets of 8 using my full work sets weight rather than the 1/4 and 1/2 working set weight that Id normally do for warmups if I was lifting 3 days a week?
    Squat/bench/row
    1/4
    1/2
    workset
    workset
    workset
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  4. #1564
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Squat/bench/row
    1/4
    1/2
    workset
    workset
    workset
    ok. im not sure if im gonna be doing 2 heavys long term. 5 sets seems like alot of volume though....
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  5. #1565
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    ok. im not sure if im gonna be doing 2 heavys long term. 5 sets seems like alot of volume though....
    12-18 sets of compounds per muscle per week is optimal, 12 if beginner 18 if advanced. You can do accessory lifts till you are blue in the face.

    On reg allpro you are getting 12 working sets, on reg heavy heavy you are only getting in 8, by adding one extra set you are only getting 10 sets per week.
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  6. #1566
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    12-18 sets of compounds per muscle per week is optimal, 12 if beginner 18 if advanced. You can do accessory lifts till you are blue in the face.

    On reg allpro you are getting 12 working sets, on reg heavy heavy you are only getting in 8, by adding one extra set you are only getting 10 sets per week.
    Ok thanks
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  7. #1567
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    I've been following this routine for some time now and on my off days i do situps, pushups and pure cable exercises ( Front Lat Pulldowns, Leg extensions, tricep pushdowns and there's a way to do bench presses with it as well.) Am i hurting my recovery period by doing this and in turn hurting my overall gains? The machine only goes up to 100LBS and it gives me a good burn more than anything else really. Should i just do abs + cardio or is this fine as well? I've been doing this for the past 5 weeks and i've seen amazing results in weight loss and muscle gain.

    In terms of cardio, i go for a run every saturday. Usually a 8km run / jog / walk mixture. Thanks for the advice and tips.
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  8. #1568
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by riad91 View Post
    I've been following this routine for some time now and on my off days i do situps, pushups and pure cable exercises ( Front Lat Pulldowns, Leg extensions, tricep pushdowns and there's a way to do bench presses with it as well.) Am i hurting my recovery period by doing this and in turn hurting my overall gains? The machine only goes up to 100LBS and it gives me a good burn more than anything else really. Should i just do abs + cardio or is this fine as well? I've been doing this for the past 5 weeks and i've seen amazing results in weight loss and muscle gain.

    In terms of cardio, i go for a run every saturday. Usually a 8km run / jog / walk mixture. Thanks for the advice and tips.
    As long as it doesnt affect the routine progression (at least 10% per cycle) you can do what you want.
    Personally i would add accessories that bring up my main lifts weak points.
    Leg extensions are not going to help with a lagging SLDL, but they will help with a squat that is turning into a good morning.

    I would focus on lats and side delts as a generic response, since those are generally what i see lacking long term on allpro.
    I also recomend chinups since the help with forearm,elbow, and core envelopment.
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  9. #1569
    Registered User riad91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    As long as it doesnt affect the routine progression (at least 10% per cycle) you can do what you want.
    Personally i would add accessories that bring up my main lifts weak points.
    Leg extensions are not going to help with a lagging SLDL, but they will help with a squat that is turning into a good morning.

    I would focus on lats and side delts as a generic response, since those are generally what i see lacking long term on allpro.
    I also recomend chinups since the help with forearm,elbow, and core envelopment.
    Hey, i forgot to ask something about my rep amount vs weights. Soo, i started benching 150 x 8 as the guide says to start on the first week etc. I haven't been able to get over 10 reps with 150lbs and i just sorta skipped going up to 12 reps and increased by 15lbs. Soo now i bench 165 x 7 - 8 on my first week for the new cycle.

    Am i skipping a fundamental process for this workout or is this okay to do? I'm sorry if it comes across as ignorant but i assumed the point of increasing the reps would be to get stronger but if i could do the 10% without going to 12 reps on the 5th week, am i okay or should i go back down to 150 and keep trying till i can do 12 reps in a working set?

    Thanks again.
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  10. #1570
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    On an extended cut, would you recommend sticking with 10% bumps if I pass test day?
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  11. #1571
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    On an extended cut, would you recommend sticking with 10% bumps if I pass test day?
    Of course. If you're still progressing on a cut, that's perfect. Keep on keeping on.
    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169283793
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  12. #1572
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    I am a complete beginner to lifting with a barbell. I'm 5"8 about 155 pounds and female. I want to lose the fat I gained over the last couple of years during school. I know the importance of diet for weight loss, but I also want to get stronger. I was wondering if doing this program would help achieve my goals of losing fat and gaining strength or would I be better off starting a 5x5 type program?
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  13. #1573
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    Is it good to do this program on a bulk(which I'm doing)
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  14. #1574
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    Originally Posted by simbae View Post
    I am a complete beginner to lifting with a barbell. I'm 5"8 about 155 pounds and female. I want to lose the fat I gained over the last couple of years during school. I know the importance of diet for weight loss, but I also want to get stronger. I was wondering if doing this program would help achieve my goals of losing fat and gaining strength or would I be better off starting a 5x5 type program?
    Theirs plenty of good cutting programs.
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  15. #1575
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by riad91 View Post
    Hey, i forgot to ask something about my rep amount vs weights. Soo, i started benching 150 x 8 as the guide says to start on the first week etc. I haven't been able to get over 10 reps with 150lbs and i just sorta skipped going up to 12 reps and increased by 15lbs. Soo now i bench 165 x 7 - 8 on my first week for the new cycle.

    Am i skipping a fundamental process for this workout or is this okay to do? I'm sorry if it comes across as ignorant but i assumed the point of increasing the reps would be to get stronger but if i could do the 10% without going to 12 reps on the 5th week, am i okay or should i go back down to 150 and keep trying till i can do 12 reps in a working set?

    Thanks again.
    Well lets see. You cant do 2 sets of 10, so you are really just using your 8 rep max, and going to failure on most sets during the cycle. This is not optimal on a fatigue based program since missed reps or RPE 10 sets drastically increase the time it takes to recover. It that type of training style a deload week is needed every 4-6 weeks inorder to recover and increase strength. So you are not doing allpro, which is based on if you can increase a set by 4 reps, you can do the original rep range with 10% more weight.

    Sounds like all you are doing is adding weight to a set you can only do 8 times, and increasing the RPE...
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  16. #1576
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by simbae View Post
    I am a complete beginner to lifting with a barbell. I'm 5"8 about 155 pounds and female. I want to lose the fat I gained over the last couple of years during school. I know the importance of diet for weight loss, but I also want to get stronger. I was wondering if doing this program would help achieve my goals of losing fat and gaining strength or would I be better off starting a 5x5 type program?
    This is one of the easier programs to cut on since the first goal is to get down to 13% body fat for men, and around 20% for women (gales have a 3% variance so its 18-21%) aka men/women flexed abs, but smooth when relaxed, but no love handles. So yea you always start allpro on a cut unless you are medically underweight. Then once you learn the lifts, and things get hard, you start increasing your body weight slowly.
    Last edited by nightanole; 05-05-2016 at 06:32 AM.
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  17. #1577
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STE123456 View Post
    Is it good to do this program on a bulk(which I'm doing)
    You start the program on a cut, you cut till you cant progress on the lifts (odds are 1-2 cycles), then you start increasing body weight slowly since by then you dont have any gut fat to bulk off of.

    If you wanted to just straight bulk on the program without dropping to 13% bf first, you must progress at, atleast 15% bumps, otherwise there is no point and you are just getting fatter.

    A 450lb power lifting total does not need a 10-20lb body weight increase to get to 650-700lbs. You will need 10-15lbs to get from 700 to 950 though.
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  18. #1578
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    Nightanole, I decided to take this week off and start fresh with Cycle 6 on Monday. Hopefully this isnt too much of a setback...
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  19. #1579
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    Nightanole, I decided to take this week off and start fresh with Cycle 6 on Monday. Hopefully this isnt too much of a setback...
    1 week off = no problem
    2 weeks off = alot of doms
    3 weeks off = min 10% deload if not 15%. AKA your 5 rep working weight would pin you to the mat if you were on stronglifts.
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  20. #1580
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    Should i go back down to 150LBS and continue working on hitting 12 reps or keep trying on this 165LBS cycle? Every other Exercise i have been sticking to on the rep pattern. It's only benchpress i can't seem to get in the higher reps, everything else is fine.
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  21. #1581
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by riad91 View Post
    Should i go back down to 150LBS and continue working on hitting 12 reps or keep trying on this 165LBS cycle? Every other Exercise i have been sticking to on the rep pattern. It's only benchpress i can't seem to get in the higher reps, everything else is fine.
    How about you switch bench to "novice" which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest. Test day is still 24 reps.
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  22. #1582
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    Wanted to do a quick check in to say that i'm at week 3 of my second cycle and I absolutly love the programme ! progress are great even on a cut those not following it, do it!
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  23. #1583
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    I just had a pretty abysmal 11-rep heavy day.

    exercise/set1/set2:

    squat/11/11
    bench/11/9
    BOR/11/9
    OHP/11/7
    SLDL/11/11
    LatPull/11/10
    Curl/11/11
    Skullcrusher/11/7

    I can't readily identify the cause, except perhaps that I slept a bit less than usual last night (got maybe 6hrs sleep).

    Everything went fine in 10-rep week. Should I continue with my normal 11-rep medium day or decrease the weight on failed lifts or what?
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  24. #1584
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    I just had a pretty abysmal 11-rep heavy day.

    exercise/set1/set2:

    squat/11/11
    bench/11/9
    BOR/11/9
    OHP/11/7
    SLDL/11/11
    LatPull/11/10
    Curl/11/11
    Skullcrusher/11/7

    I can't readily identify the cause, except perhaps that I slept a bit less than usual last night (got maybe 6hrs sleep).

    Everything went fine in 10-rep week. Should I continue with my normal 11-rep medium day or decrease the weight on failed lifts or what?
    Continue as normal. Try to get in at least 150-200 grams of carbs 8-12 hours before the workout. whatever you ate 2-4 hours before hand is not fueling your workout.
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  25. #1585
    Registered User OryxOryx's Avatar
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    Normally I workout first thing after I wake up, at maybe 5:30AM (just coffee and water). So normally its just dinner at around 6pm and sometimes around 2T of peanutbutter before bed.

    Actually for this failed heavy day I just had, I was woken up by a crying baby at like 10:30pm and was hungry so I had some peanut butter & jelly in a tortilla and a small cup of chocolate milk, so if anything I had way more carbs 8-12hrs before this particular workout than normal.

    I wonder if it would be better to workout in the afternoon rather than first thing in the morning, but I rather like working out early before it gets too hot out (I live no a tiny hot tropical island, no aircon in the gym).
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  26. #1586
    Registered User briancl2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole
    This is a simple change up. We are going to use the rep goal system to auto regulate the program.

    For a brief background on the system, it just means we have a total amount of reps we need to complete in a session before adding more weight. There is no fixed reps per set, or even fixed sets.

    So moving forward all the math is the same. Your "goal" is to get in 24 reps in 2 sets using 90 seconds or less rest between sets. Once you get in your 24 reps in one session on a lift, you add the normal 10% weight bump. If the stars align this should knock you down to the point were you can only do about 17 reps in the same amount of sets.

    You continue to do the allpro lifts in order. All your days are now heavy days, either 1 - 4 days a week depending on your recovery. You stop your sets once you get a Slooooow rep. Pushing another grinder beyond that will cause form failure and injury.
    Hi.. I am about 4 weeks into the auto-regulated alternative AllPro workout. I had been on-again-off-again with the standard AllPro for a while, but I have gotten back on the wagon now which is great. Thanks for putting all of this together.

    For context.. here are my current working weights:

    Squat - 145
    Bench - 135
    BOR - 125
    OHP - 95
    SLDL - 115
    Chin up - (Assisted -50)
    Calf - 175

    My stats: 160lbs, 6', 34yo male.

    I have a few questions to make sure I'm on the right track:

    1) For Warmups, I just do 10 reps at 25% and 50% for Squat/Bench/BOR. I suppose I could do my projected number of sets if matching the warmup reps to the working reps is critical, but if not, is 10 good enough? I guess the question is how important is the volume from the warmups if that is static throughout each cycle?

    2) I only count 90 seconds between the two working sets. I don't count between warmups or between exercises. If I'm honest, I am taking more than 90 seconds to catch my breath and make sure I go into the first working set with a full tank. Is that the right approach?

    3) When I do cycle certain workouts (Bench, Squat), I am adding 10lbs instead of 10% weight. This is partially due to convenience (addings 5s is simple) and partially to make sure I'm not pushing myself too hard too fast to maintain form. Should I just suck it up and go for the full 10% or is my approach okay?
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  27. #1587
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    Normally I workout first thing after I wake up, at maybe 5:30AM (just coffee and water). So normally its just dinner at around 6pm and sometimes around 2T of peanutbutter before bed.

    Actually for this failed heavy day I just had, I was woken up by a crying baby at like 10:30pm and was hungry so I had some peanut butter & jelly in a tortilla and a small cup of chocolate milk, so if anything I had way more carbs 8-12hrs before this particular workout than normal.

    I wonder if it would be better to workout in the afternoon rather than first thing in the morning, but I rather like working out early before it gets too hot out (I live no a tiny hot tropical island, no aircon in the gym).
    I hear a sipping on a watered down whey drink starting 45min before the workout helps. The lack of carbs combined with the whey causes an acute insulin response in a fasted state. This is better than carbing up before the workout which causes an energy drop.
    Other than that i dont know what to tell yea. If i workout out in the morning im at least 10% weaker and might not be able to even complete a heavy day, im just too dehydrated and havent eaten since 6pm the night before just like you.

    The other thing you can try is again, high carb before bed inorder to make sure your glycogen stores (aka 2nd set) are saturated. Peanut butter is a qualtiy high fat snack but its lacking in carbs, and the fat delays uptake of the carbs in the tortilla. Might have to switch to a fruit based snack.
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  28. #1588
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by briancl2 View Post
    Hi.. I am about 4 weeks into the auto-regulated alternative AllPro workout. I had been on-again-off-again with the standard AllPro for a while, but I have gotten back on the wagon now which is great. Thanks for putting all of this together.

    For context.. here are my current working weights:

    Squat - 145
    Bench - 135
    BOR - 125
    OHP - 95
    SLDL - 115
    Chin up - (Assisted -50)
    Calf - 175

    My stats: 160lbs, 6', 34yo male.

    I have a few questions to make sure I'm on the right track:

    1) For Warmups, I just do 10 reps at 25% and 50% for Squat/Bench/BOR. I suppose I could do my projected number of sets if matching the warmup reps to the working reps is critical, but if not, is 10 good enough? I guess the question is how important is the volume from the warmups if that is static throughout each cycle?

    2) I only count 90 seconds between the two working sets. I don't count between warmups or between exercises. If I'm honest, I am taking more than 90 seconds to catch my breath and make sure I go into the first working set with a full tank. Is that the right approach?

    3) When I do cycle certain workouts (Bench, Squat), I am adding 10lbs instead of 10% weight. This is partially due to convenience (addings 5s is simple) and partially to make sure I'm not pushing myself too hard too fast to maintain form. Should I just suck it up and go for the full 10% or is my approach okay?
    Those numbers look excellent other than squat, is a bit low.
    Warmups are not critical. It was made just so n00bs spend very little time warmuping up, and there is a clear difference between a warmup and work set. Too many times beginners spend so long on warmups that you cant tell when the warmups end and the work sets begin, in extreme cases the warmups are part of the reason the crap work sets are working. I would start a lifetime warmup routine at this point. 10-20 reps of just the bar, then half your rep range, adding 60-70lbs per set till you get to 60-75% of your working weight, then you can pound out a single or 2 if you want. My bench warmup of i am doing 135 is just the bar for 10 reps, and 5 reps at 95lbs. If im doing a 225 squat, bar for 10 reps, 95lbs for 5, 155lbs for 2, and 205 for 1, number are chosen out of ease of plate changes.

    90 seconds or less rest, you could even do 60 seconds. If you start pushing 2-3min it will slowly bury you on this particular program when weight changes happen.

    You can add any weight you want, its just optimal to add 10% since that is going to push your rep total down 7-8 reps for a little DUP work. Adding 5-10lbs a pass on a bulk may cause you to pass each session. Some people like that, and its fine to do that, but its not optimal since you never have that super heavy phase where you are getting used to the new weight. 5x5 people spend most of six months in the same rep range, so small increases in weight is ok as long as you know when to deload.
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  29. #1589
    Registered User cheekybody's Avatar
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    Hi nightanole, I have been following your auto regulated AllPro workout and 7 weeks into it. However, as I am trying to cut from around 20 - 25% bodyfat at 180 pounds on around 1700 - 2000 calories a day I feel very weak and have noticed very little progress in my body fat side. I have dropped down in the scale by about 5 pounds but look the same from where I have started. I also think I might have messed up my body a bit when I when on a extreme cut during my teenager years when I was called fat so hardly ate stuff. So I dropped weight, looked smaller but still carried on that fat and have little no almost none muscle mass underneath.

    I just wanted some advice on what to do or should I continue what I am doing and I should start seeing results soon? I have attached some pictures of how I look.

    My Lifts

    Squats - 95 - Progressing
    Bench - 85 - Progressing
    Rows - 95 - Progressing
    OHP - 60 - Stalled
    DL - 95 - Progressing
    Curls and SUR - 60 Stalled
    CR - 95 - Progressing

    Age 19
    Height; 6'0
    Weight; 180
    Body fat around 20 - 25% I think

    Thanks for helping me and others out.
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    Last edited by cheekybody; 05-10-2016 at 07:10 AM.
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  30. #1590
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    Hey nightanole, started my new cycle with two heavys a week today. All I can say is it went awesome, pre-workout nutrition makes all the difference. I had 1 scoop whey, a banana and a pbj sanwhich and 3g l-arginine and I went full blast through all the sets.


    I didnt do 3 sets of work sets on squat/bench/row cause I wasnt really comfortbale with the heavy weight on the squats but maybe friday I'll try that....
    Starting Weight: 148lbs
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