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  1. #1501
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    1. For cardio, its difficult for me to determine my "45 minute pace" because I'm doing jump rope intervals (40sec jump, 30sec rest). Would it be safe to say that if I do my cardio immediately after my weight session, I will minimize the risk that my cardio will interfere with my weight training gains?


    2. All things considered would your recommend standard AllPro or autoregulated AllPro when cutting, and why?
    40 sec on 30 sec off isnt sustainable, its HIIT. You cant run that on a program with fixed rest times (fatigue based). Ive seen 15-30min non HIIT jump rope routines where you do the flappy thing every few seconds, but its still not sustainable.

    The cardio has to be a 45min or longer pace, you want to target your glucose energy system. If you tax your glycogen storage system with anaerobic conditioning work you will affect recovery, because you A; are not training your glucose flushing, and B; you are not recovering your glycogen stores.

    To be on the safe side id find something i could on sustain for an hour at the same pace, and only do it for 30-45min. This is not for weight loss, it might be good for 2000-3000 calorie deficit per week tops if you do it 3x a week.

    If you want to do low intensity cardio, you can do that for hours upon hours a day and not affect the allpro program as long as the caloric deficit isnt too off.


    Allpro auto regulated is for semi experienced lifters that want to stretch the program out to a year, and dont like the all or nothing test day.

    If doing a deep cut i recommend regular, and just make sure you are not missing reps on 10 rep week. That is the sign you are not losing muscle.

    If you cut on auto regulated you would have to figure out your own fixed points. If you did the same logic, that means you have to get a 20 rep total on at least the first 3 lifts at least once a week. That can be hard since there is no weight variation on auto regulated.
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  2. #1502
    Registered User OllieN96's Avatar
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    For cardio today I'm going to use the elliptical machine for 30 minutes, as it places less pressure on my knees than the treadmill.

    Is the elliptical less effective (working your body less) than treadmill?
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  3. #1503
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OllieN96 View Post
    For cardio today I'm going to use the elliptical machine for 30 minutes, as it places less pressure on my knees than the treadmill.

    Is the elliptical less effective (working your body less) than treadmill?
    Nope its all the same, you can use the recumbent bike too.
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  4. #1504
    Registered User AlexYBB's Avatar
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    Just a few questions about the auto regulated program.

    so just to be clear, every session I'm trying to go for 24 reps? ( while staying safe ofc, if i can't go for another rep i won't )
    also when i complete the weight am i bumping up the normal 10% or the smallest increase possible?

    Thanks Night.
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  5. #1505
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlexYBB View Post
    Just a few questions about the auto regulated program.

    so just to be clear, every session I'm trying to go for 24 reps? ( while staying safe ofc, if i can't go for another rep i won't )
    also when i complete the weight am i bumping up the normal 10% or the smallest increase possible?

    Thanks Night.
    Yup. Every set is AMRAP till a slow rep. If you get a 24 rep total you bump the weight. The weight amount is up to you, if you bump 10% it might take you 3-4 weeks to pass again. If you bump 2-3lbs you might bump weekly. Both are good options.
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  6. #1506
    Registered User Scykoh's Avatar
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    I know the general beginner nutrition recommendation you give is 100f, 100p, 200-300c. My fiance (who is also a complete beginner) is doing the routine with me. She's 5'4'', 145lbs, would her nutrition goals differ? (I should add, she'd like to either maintain or cut, not bulk, if that's a reasonable goal)
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  7. #1507
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scykoh View Post
    I know the general beginner nutrition recommendation you give is 100f, 100p, 200-300c. My fiance (who is also a complete beginner) is doing the routine with me. She's 5'4'', 145lbs, would her nutrition goals differ? (I should add, she'd like to either maintain or cut, not bulk, if that's a reasonable goal)
    Ideally she should weigh 135lbs, and be able to squat bw for 1 and bench .75x bw for 1, by the end of the program. This is a technical 1 rep max, not a calculated, she should be able to do it.

    A male that is over 5.8 and around 150lbs, wont be able to maintain weight on the base diet with the 200c.

    So I would still have her run the base diet with the min carbs and see how she does for at least 6 weeks. Just starting allpro is good for about a half pound per week weight loss if you were maintaining before starting the program. You can get an additional half pound by doing the 3x 10k jogs per week.

    I would rather her progress and get to those lifting goals, and then start dropping weight. It will be easier.
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  8. #1508
    Registered User AlexYBB's Avatar
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    For the altered version of all pro, do you have an opinion on which method of putting on weight is better? 10% or smallest increment? or do you see them both as just as effective
    [x] Bulking [ ] Cutting

    Squat : 130 - 220 lbs
    Bench Press : 90 - 143 lbs
    Deadlift : 200 - 220 lbs

    Started lifting 12/08/2013

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  9. #1509
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlexYBB View Post
    For the altered version of all pro, do you have an opinion on which method of putting on weight is better? 10% or smallest increment? or do you see them both as just as effective
    It is up to the lifter. A 10% bump would mean going down 6-8 rep total. A 1-2.5lb bump may mean constantly staying at the same rep range and bumping session to session.

    Both styles have proven very effective. If a constant rep range was ineffective, then 3x5 and 5x5 would not work. On the other hand a lot of lifters like to get used to the weight/intensity before adding reps.
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  10. #1510
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    Hi everybody,

    Long time lurker, first time poster here.

    I would like to say outright that this is an extremely beautiful and effective routine which will see you gradually adding more plates with time if done right.

    I have been following this routine since some time and now I believe it is time for me to add Pull Ups at the end of the light day routine.

    Funny thing is, I can't do a single pull up and no more than 2 chin ups - although I can squat 90 kgs easy (not a lot, I know).

    Been stalling regularly on OHP and BB Curls - but I can live with that, haha.

    Just want to be able to do Pull Ups.

    I would like to thank 'nightanole' for continuing to keep this discussion alive.

    Have a nice weekend, everybody!!

    Regards
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  11. #1511
    Registered User daawhitty's Avatar
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    You could do 2 chins then either add a band to give assistance or jump up and do a controlled negative. Total rep goal 15-20 in as many sets as needed. Keep progressing so you do say 3 chins 5 bands etc. Also weight loss has a big impact. Every few lbs lost makes them easier.
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  12. #1512
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NFBManiDCV View Post
    Hi everybody,

    Long time lurker, first time poster here.

    I would like to say outright that this is an extremely beautiful and effective routine which will see you gradually adding more plates with time if done right.

    I have been following this routine since some time and now I believe it is time for me to add Pull Ups at the end of the light day routine.

    Funny thing is, I can't do a single pull up and no more than 2 chin ups - although I can squat 90 kgs easy (not a lot, I know).

    Been stalling regularly on OHP and BB Curls - but I can live with that, haha.

    Just want to be able to do Pull Ups.

    I would like to thank 'nightanole' for continuing to keep this discussion alive.

    Have a nice weekend, everybody!!

    Regards
    Do assisted to get the rep total to 15-20 per session as daawhitty suggested. You can do assisted by just using the squat rack. Put the bar at about nipple level and do them at a 45 degree angle with your feet on the floor. In extreme cases i have them setup for sitting on the floor and the bar just high enough to grab.

    You can also get a few colors of bands. If you rig them up right they wont be assisting half way through the rep.
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  13. #1513
    Registered User SkinnySD's Avatar
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    I went to the gym today to get my starting strength. I did all the routine except the calf raise. I noticed that I was very exhausted during and after the squats. Is that normal? I didn't feel that tired during the other exercise. My feet even collapsed underneath me when I was climbing the stairs outside the gym to go home. I sqauted 10 Ibs. I think the bar is 45Ibs. Is this level of exhaustion normal? I haven't been to the gym in ages and do no exercise other than walking.
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  14. #1514
    Registered User WalterDwight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SkinnySD View Post
    I went to the gym today to get my starting strength. I did all the routine except the calf raise. I noticed that I was very exhausted during and after the squats. Is that normal? I didn't feel that tired during the other exercise. My feet even collapsed underneath me when I was climbing the stairs outside the gym to go home. I sqauted 10 Ibs. I think the bar is 45Ibs. Is this level of exhaustion normal? I haven't been to the gym in ages and do no exercise other than walking.
    As a skinny guy myself, I hope you don't mind me saying.

    1. You probably need to eat a lot more. I was amazed how little I was eating when I first decided I needed to put on weight.
    2. When I started doing squats for the first time, I couldn't do the bar, and that was for 5 reps, I used a stick, then a 20lb curl bar. So you're not squatting 10lb, you're squatting 55lb. People count the weight of the bar.
    3. Squats are tiring, and the biggest exercise in the routine. (Are you doing all pro or Starting Strength?) 'potty flop', is something most first time squatters are familiar with, but collapsing is a sign you've overdone it! It could also be something more sinister, make an appointment with the doc.

    Here's my advice. Make an appointment with the doc. Get a check up. What we might think is your legs, could be your heart!
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  15. #1515
    Registered User WalterDwight's Avatar
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    Old shoulder injury has returned, where I have pins and needles down my left arm. I know online forums aren't the place for medical advice, I'm seeing a doctor on monday. Only two weeks into AllPro routine. What to do now if I'm told no arm exercises?

    I'm hypermobile, confirmed by rheumatologist in 2011 after having random knee subluxations, who also said strengthening exercises will improve my joint stability. And they have. Knees are excellent, no problems.

    2013 I injured myself a couple of months into the 'Starting Strength' program. Only symptoms were slightly sore left shoulder joint, and pins and needles down my left arm and into my fingers. Took the best part of a year to disappear.

    2014 started AllPro's basic beginner routine, figured the progression was gentler. I can't remember why I stopped, not sure if it was University workload or if the pins and needles came back, or both. Stopped after a couple of months.

    2016 Started Allpro's basic beginner routine again. On heavy day of week 2, I had intermittent rapid palpitations and breathlessness for days. I've had this once before, not related to exercise. I went to doctor, got a referral to cardiology, rested for a week, stopped all caffeine, was given the go ahead to carry on exercising.

    I've done week 2 again, no palpitations, but I stupidly tried a yoga class at my gym on my rest day. I don't know what caused it specifically, but afterwards, my left arm pins and needles are back. Had a work-related self-defense update the next day and got my shoulder twisted too. I took a days rest and did the light day of week 2.

    So, I'm sat here, taking ibuprofen, which lessens the pins and needles, so I'm guessing I have inflammation in my shoulder joint/ scapula area which is irritating a nerve that runs to my hand. I'm worried I'm going to be told to rest my arm until the pins and needles go away, and that this will be months again!

    Sorry for my medical history, I'm a little frustrated.

    My questions are:
    1. What would you do if you had an arm injury that the doc says needs rest, for example, would you do more cardio and start doing 2 leg days?
    2. Does anyone have experience with hypermobility, or ongoing injuries and weightlifting?
    3. Should I do a different routine?

    PS I know the suitability of this post for this thread is questionable. I'll remove it if needs be.
    Last edited by WalterDwight; 04-24-2016 at 05:57 AM.
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  16. #1516
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WalterDwight View Post
    Old shoulder injury has returned, where I have pins and needles down my left arm. I know online forums aren't the place for medical advice, I'm seeing a doctor on monday. Only two weeks into AllPro routine. What to do now if I'm told no arm exercises?

    I'm hypermobile, confirmed by rheumatologist in 2011 after having random knee subluxations, who also said strengthening exercises will improve my joint stability. And they have. Knees are excellent, no problems.

    2013 I injured myself a couple of months into the 'Starting Strength' program. Only symptoms were slightly sore left shoulder joint, and pins and needles down my left arm and into my fingers. Took the best part of a year to disappear.

    2014 started AllPro's basic beginner routine, figured the progression was gentler. I can't remember why I stopped, not sure if it was University workload or if the pins and needles came back, or both. Stopped after a couple of months.

    2016 Started Allpro's basic beginner routine again. On heavy day of week 2, I had intermittent rapid palpitations and breathlessness for days. I've had this once before, not related to exercise. I went to doctor, got a referral to cardiology, rested for a week, stopped all caffeine, was given the go ahead to carry on exercising.

    I've done week 2 again, no palpitations, but I stupidly tried a yoga class at my gym on my rest day. I don't know what caused it specifically, but afterwards, my left arm pins and needles are back. Had a work-related self-defense update the next day and got my shoulder twisted too. I took a days rest and did the light day of week 2.

    So, I'm sat here, taking ibuprofen, which lessens the pins and needles, so I'm guessing I have inflammation in my shoulder joint/ scapula area which is irritating a nerve that runs to my hand. I'm worried I'm going to be told to rest my arm until the pins and needles go away, and that this will be months again!

    Sorry for my medical history, I'm a little frustrated.

    My questions are:
    1. What would you do if you had an arm injury that the doc says needs rest, for example, would you do more cardio and start doing 2 leg days?
    2. Does anyone have experience with hypermobility, or ongoing injuries and weightlifting?
    3. Should I do a different routine?

    PS I know the suitability of this post for this thread is questionable. I'll remove it if needs be.
    I switch to 5/3/1 "I’m Not Doing Jack ****" pattern. Its 4 days a week for 20min, 1 lift per day.

    You have no clue what is causing the arm problem, and doing full body and just varying the volume/intensity is not going to nail down what is causing it.

    Hell when it comes down to it, if you can only deadlift and pushpress for the rest of your life, that is still 100% of all skeletal muscle.
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  17. #1517
    Registered User SkinnySD's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WalterDwight View Post
    As a skinny guy myself, I hope you don't mind me saying.

    1. You probably need to eat a lot more. I was amazed how little I was eating when I first decided I needed to put on weight.
    2. When I started doing squats for the first time, I couldn't do the bar, and that was for 5 reps, I used a stick, then a 20lb curl bar. So you're not squatting 10lb, you're squatting 55lb. People count the weight of the bar.
    3. Squats are tiring, and the biggest exercise in the routine. (Are you doing all pro or Starting Strength?) 'potty flop', is something most first time squatters are familiar with, but collapsing is a sign you've overdone it! It could also be something more sinister, make an appointment with the doc.

    Here's my advice. Make an appointment with the doc. Get a check up. What we might think is your legs, could be your heart!
    .

    I am doing All Pro and you are right, I overdid the squat. 6x 12 reps was what I did. And it just dawn on me that I wasn't squating 10Lbs, as you mentioned. It was 10+10+45= 65Lbs. No wonder I was that tired. I am aiming to eat 3000cal and I started last week. I will see about making the necessary adjustments as time goes. I will make plans to see the doc regardless. Thanks!
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  18. #1518
    Registered User WalterDwight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    I switch to 5/3/1 "I’m Not Doing Jack ****" pattern. Its 4 days a week for 20min, 1 lift per day.

    You have no clue what is causing the arm problem, and doing full body and just varying the volume/intensity is not going to nail down what is causing it.

    Hell when it comes down to it, if you can only deadlift and pushpress for the rest of your life, that is still 100% of all skeletal muscle.
    I didn't think of it that way. I'll look into the 5/3/1 INDJS programme, thanks for pointing me in that direction! It would be useful to figure out what exercise is causing it.

    I suppose I should remember my goal is to become stronger, not to become better at a particular routine.

    Thanks again nightanole,
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  19. #1519
    Registered User WalterDwight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SkinnySD View Post
    .

    I am doing All Pro and you are right, I overdid the squat. 6x 12 reps was what I did. And it just dawn on me that I wasn't squating 10Lbs, as you mentioned. It was 10+10+45= 65Lbs. No wonder I was that tired. I am aiming to eat 3000cal and I started last week. I will see about making the necessary adjustments as time goes. I will make plans to see the doc regardless. Thanks!
    No wonder your legs were tired, you did 50 squats! Were you trying out different weights?
    If so, you might want to test your weights again on another day. Because you did so many squats, you probably didn't get an accurate reflection of what weight you can lift, because you will have tired yourself out.

    I don't mean to speculate but I think your legs are going to be sore tomorrow!

    I'm really not an expert, but I'd consider drinking an isotonic sports drink, a warm bath and making sure you've got some ibuprofen to hand.

    Good luck with everything!
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  20. #1520
    Registered User Ty01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole
    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

    repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight.
    Thinking about giving this a shot, but a couple questions... so for each week it says do all 4 sets for x reps but in the faq it shows the last four exercises only having two sets (no warmups). So should it be x reps on all four sets of the first three exercises and then the last four exercises, do x reps for both sets? Or did it change somewhere along the way to include warmups in every single exercise?
    Second question is in regards to the not getting all the reps on the 5th week and not being allowed to increase the weight. This is probably obvious, but that would only be in regards to each individual exercise right? Like if on your bench you managed to knock out the 12 reps but your OHP you only got 11, you could still increase the weight on the bench, just not on the OHP?
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    Originally Posted by Ty01 View Post
    Thinking about giving this a shot, but a couple questions... so for each week it says do all 4 sets for x reps but in the faq it shows the last four exercises only having two sets (no warmups). So should it be x reps on all four sets of the first three exercises and then the last four exercises, do x reps for both sets? Or did it change somewhere along the way to include warmups in every single exercise?
    Second question is in regards to the not getting all the reps on the 5th week and not being allowed to increase the weight. This is probably obvious, but that would only be in regards to each individual exercise right? Like if on your bench you managed to knock out the 12 reps but your OHP you only got 11, you could still increase the weight on the bench, just not on the OHP?
    Its a wording problem with OP. A set is a set, regardless if its a warmup, regular, peak etc. And yes we dropped warmups after the first 3 lifts about 6 months after the original post, too many people were stalling OHP because of the increased volume.

    Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
    Curls: work-set, work-set
    Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

    Hope that spells it out better. So yea 2 warrmup sets on the first 3 lifts, no warmups after that.

    "Test day" You only bump the weight on the lifts/exercises you get 2 sets of 12 on. Everyone starts imbalanced (bench more than they squat etc) so the lifts you are really good at, are going to go slower than the lifts you have never done before.

    So yea if you got your 2 sets of 12 on the bench, and bombed OHP, you just up the bench 10% (or more 10% is the min not the max) and repeat OHP with the same weight next cycle.

    Start out light for a guaranteed pass the first cycle, you can always bump the weight 15-20% after test day if it felt easy.
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    Appreciate the response, thought that was how it was, but wanted to make sure before going into taking this on.
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    Last week was week 5 of my cycle and on Monday (test day) did:

    Squat 12 12
    Bench 12 10
    Rows 12 12
    Ohp 12 9
    Sldl 12 12
    Curl 12 8
    Calf 12 12

    I was feeling under the weather the rest of the week and skipped my medium and light days.

    Should I redo week 5 or start the next cycle.
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    Originally Posted by zoom008 View Post
    Last week was week 5 of my cycle and on Monday (test day) did:

    Squat 12 12
    Bench 12 10
    Rows 12 12
    Ohp 12 9
    Sldl 12 12
    Curl 12 8
    Calf 12 12

    I was feeling under the weather the rest of the week and skipped my medium and light days.

    Should I redo week 5 or start the next cycle.
    If you want to try to weasel your way to a pass, you would have to do 2 heavies next week (72+ hours apart) and use the 2nd heavy as test day. With a week off you will be way to fresh to test.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you want to try to weasel your way to a pass, you would have to do 2 heavies next week (72+ hours apart) and use the 2nd heavy as test day. With a week off you will be way to fresh to test.
    Thanks. I don't think I'd be able to pass the lifts I failed on so I'll start a new cycle.

    One more question. If a week comes up and you know you'll only be able to lift 2 days, would it be better to spread the workouts apart and do 2 heavy days or keep the same schedule and do a heavy, medium and skip the light day.
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    Originally Posted by zoom008 View Post
    Thanks. I don't think I'd be able to pass the lifts I failed on so I'll start a new cycle.

    One more question. If a week comes up and you know you'll only be able to lift 2 days, would it be better to spread the workouts apart and do 2 heavy days or keep the same schedule and do a heavy, medium and skip the light day.
    Either one works. you are allowed to skip a light day or 2 during a cycle. If you do a heavy heavy you need to have at least 72 hours rest before each heavy.
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    Total n00b here. One question:

    I'm lucky enough to work for a company that has a small gym in the premises. However, no barbells -- only dumbbells and a universal (plates) machine. I don't want to risk injury by doing the exercises on a machine using poor/inadequate form (like, for instance, doing squats on a bench press). Is it advisable?
    Last edited by LordeHellig; 04-27-2016 at 03:45 PM.
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    Sorry, I know you've posted this many times before but:

    What are the AllPro work-set lifts (i.e. what I'm actually lifting doing AllPro not a calculated 1rm) that would give someone an indication that its time to move on from AllPro Beginner? If the answer is in terms of bw, is that lean bodyweight or total bodyweight?

    Just trying to figure out how much longer I should be sticking with AllPro.
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    Originally Posted by LordeHellig View Post
    Total n00b here. One question:

    I'm lucky enough to work for a company that has a small gym in the premises. However, no barbells -- only dumbbells and a universal (plates) machine. I don't want to risk injury by doing the exercises on a machine using poor/inadequate form (like, for instance, doing squats on a bench press). Is it advisable?
    Machines can be used for OHP and Squats if you have good alignment and dont cheat by pushing the weight forward to relieve your posterior chain. You may want to switch some exercises around if doing full dumb bell. "the arnold press" should be subbed for the OHP, the goblet squat for the back squat, and maybe even floor press for the bench press.

    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    Sorry, I know you've posted this many times before but:

    What are the AllPro work-set lifts (i.e. what I'm actually lifting doing AllPro not a calculated 1rm) that would give someone an indication that its time to move on from AllPro Beginner? If the answer is in terms of bw, is that lean bodyweight or total bodyweight?

    Just trying to figure out how much longer I should be sticking with AllPro.
    Allpro is effective till around the time you can bench bw for 10 reps, and squat 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps, while at 13% bf. To get a few more cycles you can switch to novice (switching up to the first 3 lifts to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest) or switching to auto regulated version

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513


    Mind you once you have tapped out of allpro, you will never bump 10% a month ever again (unless you take a year off and get detrained) so the point of the variants and other intermediate routines is to account for the lifters much slower progression.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Allpro is effective till around the time you can bench bw for 10 reps, and squat 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps, while at 13% bf.
    So if I'm not 13% BF do I calculate what my current weight would be if I was 13% BF and use that for my calculation?
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