AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Same weight as barbell?

Worst case it will be 5-10% lighter till you get used to the new movement. Kinda like moving from high bar to low bar, yes low bar should be easier, but if you never done it or out of practice...

[nezaboy]

Thanks for your advice as always! Is there a benefit to press on the floor? I’ve seen people do this at the gym and wonder what the benefit is? Seeing as you get less ROM?

Worst case it will be 5-10% lighter till you get used to the new movement. Kinda like moving from high bar to low bar, yes low bar should be easier, but if you never done it or out of practice...

[nightanole]

Thanks for your advice as always! Is there a benefit to press on the floor? I’ve seen people do this at the gym and wonder what the benefit is? Seeing as you get less ROM?

Little less rom, depending on your setup, some can stack enough hard pads and chest puff to reach the chest. But the lack of rom is made up with the dead stop at the bottom, so every rep is a "pause" rep.

[nezaboy]

All right one last question. Our lockdown starts Thursday. My heavy day should be on Monday. I should be starting my 11 rep week. Is there any harm in going for my test week on Monday and skipping out the 11 rep week? I’m pretty confident I can make the reps

Little less rom, depending on your setup, some can stack enough hard pads and chest puff to reach the chest. But the lack of rom is made up with the dead stop at the bottom, so every rep is a "pause" rep.

[nightanole]

All right one last question. Our lockdown starts Thursday. My heavy day should be on Monday. I should be starting my 11 rep week. Is there any harm in going for my test week on Monday and skipping out the 11 rep week? I’m pretty confident I can make the reps

If it was an easy pass it counts. But remember you skipping 1 week of fatigue buildup. Another lockdown alternative is just run auto regulated, then you run it when ever, and 2-4 days a week.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513


It is also disconcerting that this lockdown announcement has not received much media attention over here. Then again by the time your gyms are closed, ours will be on fire...

[nezaboy]

I don’t know which country is handling it worse! On auto regulated am I right thinking you can progress on bench one week, and squat the next week etc? So you’re not progressing on all the movements at the same time necessarily?

I’m still going to push for test day on Monday and then see how I feel

If it was an easy pass it counts. But remember you skipping 1 week of fatigue buildup. Another lockdown alternative is just run auto regulated, then you run it when ever, and 2-4 days a week.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513


It is also disconcerting that this lockdown announcement has not received much media attention over here. Then again by the time your gyms are closed, ours will be on fire...

[nightanole]

I don’t know which country is handling it worse! On auto regulated am I right thinking you can progress on bench one week, and squat the next week etc? So you’re not progressing on all the movements at the same time necessarily?

I’m still going to push for test day on Monday and then see how I feel

Correct. You may pass bench a few times before passing squat as an example.

[xuerebx]

Nightanole - so I'd like your opinion on something. I've been on AllPro for 12 weeks now - today I had day 1 of cycle 3 week 3. I have been tracking my calories for 8 weeks now, and have been below maintenance since my first priority is to lose fat and get to around 15% bodyfat before slow bulking. This is my result since 12 weeks of Allpros/ cutting.

Anyway, in line with the difficulties that cutting brings with it I've failed getting to 10 reps on squats today - got 8 and 8 - last week got 9 and 8. I very much doubt I'll get more reps for the remainder of the cycle, and I think it's difficult to increase the weight on benches and rows by 10%.

Do you suggest keeping the weight stable from cycle 4? Also, since I'm already failing getting the required reps for squats, do you think I should deload from next week?

Cheers man!

[nightanole]

Nightanole - so I'd like your opinion on something. I've been on AllPro for 12 weeks now - today I had day 1 of cycle 3 week 3. I have been tracking my calories for 8 weeks now, and have been below maintenance since my first priority is to lose fat and get to around 15% bodyfat before slow bulking. This is my result since 12 weeks of Allpros/ cutting.

Anyway, in line with the difficulties that cutting brings with it I've failed getting to 10 reps on squats today - got 8 and 8 - last week got 9 and 8. I very much doubt I'll get more reps for the remainder of the cycle, and I think it's difficult to increase the weight on benches and rows by 10%.

Do you suggest keeping the weight stable from cycle 4? Also, since I'm already failing getting the required reps for squats, do you think I should deload from next week?

Cheers man!

I dont expect anyone to pass every test day unless they are bmi 18 and permabulking the entire 9-12 months. Even on a 1kg bulk by cycle 4 i expect you to be passing bench and failing ohp, then failing bench and passing OHP the next cycle.

So on a cut just maintaining working weight means your power to weight ratio is increasing, and that is progress.

But it is concerning you only getting 8 8 on 10 rep week. That means you are under eating calories, under eating a certain macro (eating too much protein and not enough carbs happens frequently), or its a recovery issue (not enough cardio or sleep). Any of these things will cause fatigue to build up too fast and you will start missing reps. And once you start missing reps the fatigue builds up even faster.

Personally i would reset to 8 rep week and start the cycle over again. Since you are using the program for weight loss and to maintain strength, this shouldnt be an issue. And for homework you really need to figure out something to boost recovery. The last guy i fixed with a simple under the desk pedal bike that he would use for an hour a day 5 days a week during skype meetings. He didnt even up the difficulty to the point of sweating.

[xuerebx]

I dont expect anyone to pass every test day unless they are bmi 18 and permabulking the entire 9-12 months. Even on a 1kg bulk by cycle 4 i expect you to be passing bench and failing ohp, then failing bench and passing OHP the next cycle.

So on a cut just maintaining working weight means your power to weight ratio is increasing, and that is progress.

Thanks man, appreciate your input.

Well I am under eating calories (although not a huge deficit - circa 200-300 calories below maintenance), and if I look at my last 4 weeks' macro averages (I've got everything logged) I'm getting the following:

P - 0.96g/lb --> 142g daily
C - 1.1g/lb --> 164g daily
F - 0.33g/lb --> 49g daily

1,700 daily calories, although this last week I reduced calories to 1,600 to try to speed up the cutting process, but I doubt 100 daily calories make that much of a difference.

So I try to follow the recommended guidelines.

Regarding sleep, I'm not a heavy sleeper but I do try to get 7 hours of sleep, and I go on two 1-hour brisk speed walks every week.

I'm not sure if anything I wrote now should be fixed?

Personally i would reset to 8 rep week and start the cycle over again. Since you are using the program for weight loss and to maintain strength, this shouldnt be an issue. And for homework you really need to figure out something to boost recovery. The last guy i fixed with a simple under the desk pedal bike that he would use for an hour a day 5 days a week during skype meetings. He didnt even up the difficulty to the point of sweating.

When you say reset to 8 rep week - you mean for all exercises right not just squat? I should be doing medium day tomorrow (my schedule is Sun-Tue-Thurs), so should I finish this week's medium and light day, and reset on the coming heavy day?

As for recovery, not sure what I can do more to be honest. I have tried to sleep more but I end up waking the same time as always.

[nezaboy]

I definately wasn’t ready for my test! I would have failed OHP, squat and curls. . I had a few things against me today thought. Few guys hogging the racks and so I had to do the lifts out of sequence and squat was last. I’m guessing that was a bad idea, but I waiting 30 minutes already at that point. Also feeling slightly under the weather today. So I’m going into lockdown not passing. I have managed to get a barbell though. So I can continue the program for this cycle and the next cycle before I run out of weights

If it was an easy pass it counts. But remember you skipping 1 week of fatigue buildup. Another lockdown alternative is just run auto regulated, then you run it when ever, and 2-4 days a week.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513


It is also disconcerting that this lockdown announcement has not received much media attention over here. Then again by the time your gyms are closed, ours will be on fire...

[nezaboy]

Should also add curls failed as I think I have a little distal bicep tendinitis. Need to watch that

I definately wasn’t ready for my test! I would have failed OHP, squat and curls. . I had a few things against me today thought. Few guys hogging the racks and so I had to do the lifts out of sequence and squat was last. I’m guessing that was a bad idea, but I waiting 30 minutes already at that point. Also feeling slightly under the weather today. So I’m going into lockdown not passing. I have managed to get a barbell though. So I can continue the program for this cycle and the next cycle before I run out of weights

[nightanole]

Thanks man, appreciate your input.

Well I am under eating calories (although not a huge deficit - circa 200-300 calories below maintenance), and if I look at my last 4 weeks' macro averages (I've got everything logged) I'm getting the following:

P - 0.96g/lb --> 142g daily
C - 1.1g/lb --> 164g daily
F - 0.33g/lb --> 49g daily

1,700 daily calories, although this last week I reduced calories to 1,600 to try to speed up the cutting process, but I doubt 100 daily calories make that much of a difference.

So I try to follow the recommended guidelines.

Regarding sleep, I'm not a heavy sleeper but I do try to get 7 hours of sleep, and I go on two 1-hour brisk speed walks every week.

I'm not sure if anything I wrote now should be fixed?



When you say reset to 8 rep week - you mean for all exercises right not just squat? I should be doing medium day tomorrow (my schedule is Sun-Tue-Thurs), so should I finish this week's medium and light day, and reset on the coming heavy day?

As for recovery, not sure what I can do more to be honest. I have tried to sleep more but I end up waking the same time as always.

Allpro starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300 g of carbs

You are running half the recommended fat. This is fine if you are gods gift to essential fatty acid profiles and are a nutritionist.
You are running a huge amount of protein. 1g per pound is for when you have "made it" and can cut at 3500-4000 calories, at which point its almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound.

So i dont know if it is the real reason, but protein is a horrible energy source, and you are running 100g light on the good energy sources. Remember your body can make non essential amino acids just fine out of carbs. But its a hell a lota work to get that nitrogen atom off to convert an amino acid to an energy source. And most of your vitamins and minerals (and what "you" are made of) come from fats.

[xuerebx]

I was aiming towards 1g/lb to play it safe, but the recommended minimum is 0.7g/lb, although for cutting its advisable to be higher to preserve muscle mass - not that I have much of this anyway. I will reduce protein intake and increase carb intake, as I believe I need more energy for my workouts. As for fats, I just aimed to get the minimum amount if I'm being honest. The thing is that since they carry 9 calories per gram, and I'm on a 1,600-1,700 caloric diet, I need to be more strategic with fat intake.

So I'll make some tweaks and increase carbs to at least 200g per day, reducing protein intake but without going below 0.7g/lb.

Also as a side point, definitely not a nutritionist - just reading a lot of stuff lately.

With respect to my training queries, what do you think?

When you say reset to 8 rep week - you mean for all exercises right not just squat? I should be doing medium day tomorrow - my schedule is Sun-Tue-Thurs, so should I finish this week's medium and light day, and reset on the coming heavy day?

As for recovery, not sure what I can do more to be honest. I have tried to sleep more but I end up waking the same time as always.

[nezaboy]

How do you know so much? Genuinely interested. I’m someone who likes to know why I’m doing stuff and not just follow instructions if that makes sense? Now wondering if my fats are too low and protein too high

Allpro starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300 g of carbs

You are running half the recommended fat. This is fine if you are gods gift to essential fatty acid profiles and are a nutritionist.
You are running a huge amount of protein. 1g per pound is for when you have "made it" and can cut at 3500-4000 calories, at which point its almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound.

So i dont know if it is the real reason, but protein is a horrible energy source, and you are running 100g light on the good energy sources. Remember your body can make non essential amino acids just fine out of carbs. But its a hell a lota work to get that nitrogen atom off to convert an amino acid to an energy source. And most of your vitamins and minerals (and what "you" are made of) come from fats.

[nightanole]

I cant remember if you are on auto regulated or not. But it doesnt make sense since there is not 10 rep week on auto regulated, you cant "miss" reps on autoregulated. So i assumed you are on regular, in which case you would just restart the cycle.


As far as nutrition is concerned, For home work i would check out some college sports nutrition logs, as those goes guys scholarships depend on performance. You will find nearly all of them are running under 1g per kg for protein.

In terms of fats, you can run that low, but you need to really study your fat profile. Chicken breast, veggies, and brown rice dont really have fat, and if you are just taking a shot of olive oil and a shot of coconut oil, and some omega3 oil tabs, that is not going to work with a 25-50g fat intake. But if you are getting your fish and nuts real butter etc down pact, then 50 grams can be used. Else you will end up with "rabbit starvation" etc.

[nightanole]

How do you know so much? Genuinely interested. I’m someone who likes to know why I’m doing stuff and not just follow instructions if that makes sense? Now wondering if my fats are too low and protein too high

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1308277651

That will get your started

[nezaboy]

Trying to figure why I would have failed today. And if I just wasn’t ready, or if the order I did everything. Also concerning that both my shoulder pain and my bicep elbow pain are in the same arm. Wondering if the shoulder pain may also be bicep related? Should I maybe rest a week completely? The distal bicep pain was enough to make me not want to finish the set on curls

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1308277651

That will get your started

[xuerebx]

I cant remember if you are on auto regulated or not. But it doesnt make sense since there is not 10 rep week on auto regulated, you cant "miss" reps on autoregulated. So i assumed you are on regular, in which case you would just restart the cycle.


As far as nutrition is concerned, For home work i would check out some college sports nutrition logs, as those goes guys scholarships depend on performance. You will find nearly all of them are running under 1g per kg for protein.

In terms of fats, you can run that low, but you need to really study your fat profile. Chicken breast, veggies, and brown rice dont really have fat, and if you are just taking a shot of olive oil and a shot of coconut oil, and some omega3 oil tabs, that is not going to work with a 25-50g fat intake. But if you are getting your fish and nuts real butter etc down pact, then 50 grams can be used. Else you will end up with "rabbit starvation" etc.

Thanks man - and yeah I'm on the regular vanilla version so I will restart the cycle - let me see how tomorrow goes as I may have just had a bad workout. Also I mainly get my fats from some olive oil, nuts, eggs and cheeses (cottage cheese, and the lovely Maltese Gbejna ).

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1308277651

That will get your started

Nice, didn't know about this post. Also I would add THE MUSCLE & STRENGTH PYRAMID - NUTRITION ebook - Eric Helms, and Mike Israetel's The Renaissance Diet 2.0.

[nezaboy]

This has been such a good read. It’s really opened my eyes!

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1308277651

That will get your started

[neuralfusion011]

1. Why SLDL instead of RDL? Can RDL be a substitute for SLDL or not?
2. Is adding in two accessories (hanging knee raises for 2 work sets plus pullups for 2 work sets fine?

Thank you.

[dagdo]

Hi Nightanole. I have another question on allpro vs the programs that follow after. I've read that its time to switch from allpro when the volume is not enough to progress, but the volume on e.g. Greyskull could end up being lower than allpro couldn't it? I'm probably thinking about it the wrong way, would be grateful if someone could point out my errors in thinking... So as an example I am thinking of a guy on allpro doing 100kg squats (medium day 90 and light 80), will get 3days*2sets*10reps(average)*90kg (average)=5,400kg volume per week. When switching to greyskull he might get 2days*3sets*6reps(average)*100kg=3,600kg volume per week. He would probably increase working weights, but squat would have to go up by 50% in greyskull before volume is equal.

[nightanole]

1. Why SLDL instead of RDL? Can RDL be a substitute for SLDL or not?
2. Is adding in two accessories (hanging knee raises for 2 work sets plus pullups for 2 work sets fine?

Thank you.

In most coaches minds, the RDL is just a top down eccentric deadlift. Same form/movement as a traditional deadlift. Its added in because there is no eccentric phase to a traditional deadlift.

The "modern" SLDL is added to finish out the hamstrings which are not completely worked in the squat. And due to it being "stiff" its not as taxing on the lower back as a traditional deadlift nor a squat, which means better lower back recovery. This is critical since you are doing squats/rows/SLDL 3x a week.


You can add 1 accessory after you pass 2 test days, and a final accessory after you pass 3 test days. This brings the movements up to 9 in a beginners routine, coaches should start taking jello shots at the mere mention of this...

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole. I have another question on allpro vs the programs that follow after. I've read that its time to switch from allpro when the volume is not enough to progress, but the volume on e.g. Greyskull could end up being lower than allpro couldn't it? I'm probably thinking about it the wrong way, would be grateful if someone could point out my errors in thinking... So as an example I am thinking of a guy on allpro doing 100kg squats (medium day 90 and light 80), will get 3days*2sets*10reps(average)*90kg (average)=5,400kg volume per week. When switching to greyskull he might get 2days*3sets*6reps(average)*100kg=3,600kg volume per week. He would probably increase working weights, but squat would have to go up by 50% in greyskull before volume is equal.

5/3/1 or Greyskull LP are the core workouts. "You" are expected to fill in the accessory work needed to push progression on the core lifts. You are partially correct, but the solution to not enough squatting volume, is not more squatting sets(that would create repeat bout injuries). "you" will have to find your weaknesses and rotate in and out accessory lifts as needed as they do their jobs and are no longer needed.

As an intermediate im not expecting you to be doing "just" squats 2x a week for 3 sets. You might be doing hill climps, farmer walks, leg press and curls, etc.

Welcome to intermediate programming, where the points dont matter and the beginner rules dont apply. Noone cares about your 5 rep and 10 rep max any more


https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=166216941

[neuralfusion011]

In most coaches minds, the RDL is just a top down eccentric deadlift. Same form/movement as a traditional deadlift. Its added in because there is no eccentric phase to a traditional deadlift.

The "modern" SLDL is added to finish out the hamstrings which are not completely worked in the squat. And due to it being "stiff" its not as taxing on the lower back as a traditional deadlift nor a squat, which means better lower back recovery. This is critical since you are doing squats/rows/SLDL 3x a week.


You can add 1 accessory after you pass 2 test days, and a final accessory after you pass 3 test days. This brings the movements up to 9 in a beginners routine, coaches should start taking jello shots at the mere mention of this...

Thanks for the reply that makes sense. Two more quick questions.

1. Is the 8-12 reps for 2 sets fine for the accessories or would you recommend a different scheme (I have been on this routine for many cycles)?

2. By modern SLDL, do you mean the one where you pick the bar up from the rack (not the ground like a regular deadlift), hinge at the hips (while not shooting hips back), and keeping back straight with bar slightly in front of legs?

[nightanole]

Thanks for the reply that makes sense. Two more quick questions.

1. Is the 8-12 reps for 2 sets fine for the accessories or would you recommend a different scheme (I have been on this routine for many cycles)?

2. By modern SLDL, do you mean the one where you pick the bar up from the rack (not the ground like a regular deadlift), hinge at the hips (while not shooting hips back), and keeping back straight with bar slightly in front of legs?

Accessories can be anything, it just depends no your goals. Ive had people push press a weight they can only do 2-3 reps with. And we have had people that work in the 20-30 rep range. There really isnt a progression. IF the accessory stays fixed, but the main lift is going up, well over all volume is increasing.


There as been the description of what i like to see written several times in the last 3 pages on the SLDL, along with form check videos.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1619146161
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1619360171

[eemuman]

4 Weeks in and feeling amazing. Only real trouble at the moment is doing 4x11 squats lol, I'm in so bad shape at the moment, that I run out of breath and I really have to catch my breath at the top position. Doing some light jogging to try improve that. Otherwise feeling great! When I started my legs would get so wobbly after few sets of squats that doing rows was almost impossible due to shaking lol, now it's a lot better.

Thanks again for the route, it really has been a game changer in my life!

[nightanole]

OK PART 7 IS UP. ABANDON SHIP!!!

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=179232481