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  1. #8281
    ɹǝsn pǝɹǝʇsıƃǝɹ JJ-'s Avatar
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    On the subject of de-loading...I recently had gyno surgery and once I was cleared to start lifting I started this program and have run 2 cycles. My goal was to gain size and strength and hope to fill in some of the excess skin around my chest. I've had outstanding results with just 2 cycles in both size and strength. My question...last week was the end of my second cycle and I was pretty sore during the workouts. What is the protocol for de-loading before starting my next cycle? Should I take a week off or reduce to 2 workouts this week with lighter weight before I start the next round?
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  2. #8282
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JJ- View Post
    On the subject of de-loading...I recently had gyno surgery and once I was cleared to start lifting I started this program and have run 2 cycles. My goal was to gain size and strength and hope to fill in some of the excess skin around my chest. I've had outstanding results with just 2 cycles in both size and strength. My question...last week was the end of my second cycle and I was pretty sore during the workouts. What is the protocol for de-loading before starting my next cycle? Should I take a week off or reduce to 2 workouts this week with lighter weight before I start the next round?
    If you passed, next week will feel 2.5% easier, and have a lot less volume, vs test week. There is no deload on allpro. If you took a week off, you just stripped off all that lovely fatigue that you have been gunning for.

    If you want you can try "coming back from vacation" protocol. Just start next cycle with 7 reps instead of 8 reps and make it a 6 week cycle.
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  3. #8283
    ɹǝsn pǝɹǝʇsıƃǝɹ JJ-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you passed, next week will feel 2.5% easier, and have a lot less volume, vs test week. There is no deload on allpro. If you took a week off, you just stripped off all that lovely fatigue that you have been gunning for.

    If you want you can try "coming back from vacation" protocol. Just start next cycle with 7 reps instead of 8 reps and make it a 6 week cycle.
    Ok thanks for the help!
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  4. #8284
    Registered User tjackson8889's Avatar
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    I usually rotate days with lifts, but I'm going to try this!
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  5. #8285
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    I’ve started doing this program and this is the first time I did SLDL. I’ve been following this video’s form that’s posted on the first page of this thread. https://youtu.be/bfPOgqBBzVA


    I was looking for more form videos and I’m totally confused now. Am I supposed to touch and rest the bar on the floor or not for every rep?

    Above video’s form is apparently Romanian deadlift as per the video below?

    https://youtu.be/jYEVqa4C0yg



    I think the answer is obvious that I should follow the first video but the thing is there is another broken SLDL Video on the first page. Just want to make sure.

    Thank you
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  6. #8286
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I’ve started doing this program and this is the first time I did SLDL. I’ve been following this video’s form that’s posted on the first page of this thread. https://youtu.be/bfPOgqBBzVA


    I was looking for more form videos and I’m totally confused now. Am I supposed to touch and rest the bar on the floor or not for every rep?

    Above video’s form is apparently Romanian deadlift as per the video below?

    https://youtu.be/jYEVqa4C0yg



    I think the answer is obvious that I should follow the first video but the thing is there is another broken SLDL Video on the first page. Just want to make sure.

    Thank you
    OP is a mess... From 2011...

    Start at normal deadlift lockout position
    lower weight while bending your knees as much as you like, as long as it doesnt cause hip drop
    lower weight till hamstrings go tight, then pull back hard and lock out

    the weight should not touch the floor between reps
    the weight will be more over your toes than a normal deadlift
    beginners will be lucky to get the weight much past their knees with a straight back.
    The continued hard pull at your hamstring stretch point, will increase ROM over time
    You gradulate when you can get the weight to be inline with the top of the ankle with a straight back. This will require you to stand on a platform.

    There are plenty of good videos on this version of the SLDL:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uDiW5--rAE

    And the 30min version...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6GhzIfh-c


    But to sum up what we are looking for:
    An eccentric deadlift that put emphasis on the hamstring rom, and does not relieve tension between reps.

    This is slightly different than the romainian deadlift:
    An eccentric deadlift that puts emphasis on loading the hamstrings for a traditional deadlift pull. AKA no change in form vs a traditional deadlift.

    And then you have the "old school" SLDL. This one is to dynamically train the spinal erectors, and you must do it with half your squat weight or less. You will find lots of pictures of Arnold doing it.
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  7. #8287
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    OP is a mess... From 2011...

    Start at normal deadlift lockout position
    lower weight while bending your knees as much as you like, as long as it doesnt cause hip drop
    lower weight till hamstrings go tight, then pull back hard and lock out

    the weight should not touch the floor between reps
    the weight will be more over your toes than a normal deadlift
    beginners will be lucky to get the weight much past their knees with a straight back.
    The continued hard pull at your hamstring stretch point, will increase ROM over time
    You gradulate when you can get the weight to be inline with the top of the ankle with a straight back. This will require you to stand on a platform.

    There are plenty of good videos on this version of the SLDL:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uDiW5--rAE

    And the 30min version...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6GhzIfh-c


    But to sum up what we are looking for:
    An eccentric deadlift that put emphasis on the hamstring rom, and does not relieve tension between reps.

    This is slightly different than the romainian deadlift:
    An eccentric deadlift that puts emphasis on loading the hamstrings for a traditional deadlift pull. AKA no change in form vs a traditional deadlift.

    And then you have the "old school" SLDL. This one is to dynamically train the spinal erectors, and you must do it with half your squat weight or less. You will find lots of pictures of Arnold doing it.
    Cool thanks. So I’ll follow the Stiff legged deadlift Version where the deadlift starts while standing with bar in hand and weight does not touch the floor in the bottom position. https://youtu.be/jYEVqa4C0yg

    On conventional deadlift I could do 215 x 5 (I know it’s poverty but better than 75x5 when I started lol). I used 105 x 8 for SLDL and had three to four reps in the tank on the 8th rep. Did I start too low or should I run with it?

    I worked out yesterday and there is nice and 3/10 (10 being horrible) DOMS on my hammies. Feels good!!
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  8. #8288
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Cool thanks. So I’ll follow the Stiff legged deadlift Version where the deadlift starts while standing with bar in hand and weight does not touch the floor in the bottom position. https://youtu.be/jYEVqa4C0yg

    On conventional deadlift I could do 215 x 5 (I know it’s poverty but better than 75x5 when I started lol). I used 105 x 8 for SLDL and had three to four reps in the tank on the 8th rep. Did I start too low or should I run with it?

    I worked out yesterday and there is nice and 3/10 (10 being horrible) DOMS on my hammies. Feels good!!
    If you start with a heavy weight, you will get scared and not go to full stretch. The goal of the SLDL on this program is hamstring ROM, not weight. I really could care less if you can SLDL your squat weight, yet can only get to mid shin. Using the supplied form it should be impossible for you to SLDL your squat weight.
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  9. #8289
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you start with a heavy weight, you will get scared and not go to full stretch. The goal of the SLDL on this program is hamstring ROM, not weight. I really could care less if you can SLDL your squat weight, yet can only get to mid shin. Using the supplied form it should be impossible for you to SLDL your squat weight.

    I’ll see how SLDL go on medium and light weight and if I feel I’m able to go lower with lighter weight, I will drop the weight 5 to 10% next Heavy workout.
    Last edited by TryingBB; 06-05-2020 at 12:46 AM.
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  10. #8290
    Registered User osmonix's Avatar
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    Do you have a recommendation for programming once I hit intermediate? I'm getting close to squat, bench, DL goals mentioned in the FAQ. Probably 1 or 2 cycles left to go. Curious what is next. I like the set up of Allpro and wondering whats naturally after.

    thanks!
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  11. #8291
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by osmonix View Post
    Do you have a recommendation for programming once I hit intermediate? I'm getting close to squat, bench, DL goals mentioned in the FAQ. Probably 1 or 2 cycles left to go. Curious what is next. I like the set up of Allpro and wondering whats naturally after.

    thanks!
    4 choices:

    madcow 5x5

    greyskull LP. I would check out /fit variant, or any other variant other than phraks

    5/3/1 BBB, with the BBB lift on none main lift days. So day one might be 5/3/1 bench, and bbb squat, and day 2 might be 5/3/1 squat and bbb bench

    Rotating allpros intermediate routines every 6-12 weeks.
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...5025731&page=1


    End of novice is around a 4 plate deadlift if you are around 180lbs. The above programs will take the early intermediate to a 5 plate dead lift in 18-24 months. So yea welcome to intermediate programming, 25% gains in 1-2 years.
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  12. #8292
    Registered User osmonix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    4 choices:

    thanks so much! very helpful
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  13. #8293
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    I have a couple issues.

    - last heavy workout yesterday was not all that great. I got all my reps but I had not slept well for three nights - I could tell I’m not recovered well Should I continue with medium and light workout next or should I do one more heavy and skip the medium and light this week?

    - I workout Wednesday (Heavy), Friday and Sunday. Due to work I’m having to change my days to Friday (heavy), Sunday and Tuesday. What’s the best way to switch to the new days? I’m current in week 2 and I can wait a couple weeks if needed before I switch.

    Thanks
    Last edited by TryingBB; 06-11-2020 at 02:42 PM.
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  14. #8294
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I have a couple issues.

    - last heavy workout yesterday was not all that great. I got all my reps but I had not slept well for three nights - I could tell I’m not recovered well Should I continue with medium and light workout next or should I do one more heavy and skip the medium and light this week?

    - I workout Wednesday (Heavy), Friday and Sunday. Due to work I’m having to change my days to Friday (heavy), Sunday and Tuesday. What’s the best way to switch to the new days? I’m current in week 2 and I can wait a couple weeks if needed before I switch.

    Thanks
    The only "rule" is no lifting 72 hours before a heavy, "any" heavy.

    So to help with recovery, you could do the heavy heavy this week, at least 72 hours apart, standard 2 sets. This will reduce volume by 25%.

    And you could do the same when you do the transition. Or for the transition you can just say hell with it, and just reset to 9 rep week when you start the transition week, and do whatever you want for the weeks leading up to the transition.
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  15. #8295
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The only "rule" is no lifting 72 hours before a heavy, "any" heavy.

    So to help with recovery, you could do the heavy heavy this week, at least 72 hours apart, standard 2 sets. This will reduce volume by 25%.

    And you could do the same when you do the transition. Or for the transition you can just say hell with it, and just reset to 9 rep week when you start the transition week, and do whatever you want for the weeks leading up to the transition.
    Thanks. On spread with you...

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to nightanole again.
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  16. #8296
    Registered User praveenb1994's Avatar
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    Had invested a lot of amount on personal training and don't see much result what i expected. Thanks for sharing the program.
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  17. #8297
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    All pro, as you have graced us with your presence once again, I would like to ask you to chime in on a question I posed a while back.

    Do you have any suggestions for a natural progression from this workout? I would like a 3x per week program similar to this, where the volume is increased incrementally over the space of a few weeks, through higher sets or reps, more suited to early intermediate. I have been doing fierce 5 for just over a year now, from the beginner to the U/L.

    Nightanole suggested your routine but doing just the 2 heavy workouts each week. However, I would like to go 3 times per week. Would an alternating A/B workout 3 times per week, full body work? Or how about doing something similar to what your original routine stated but maybe lower rep work (5-8) Monday, medium rep (8-13) work wednesday, High rep work(14-18) Friday and each week use RIR to dictate progression?

    I have spent so much time (months) researching this but have found something that I feel will suit me yet. I am hoping to stick to fierce 5 until September, but progress isn’t ideal now and I have joint and back issues which makes consistent heavy weight work sub-optimal.

    Thanks a bunch
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  18. #8298
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    Plank Tutorial

    If there is one exercise we all love to hate and hate to love, it is this one. A plank is a simple, effective bodyweight exercise that requires no equipment and can be performed just about anywhere (well, use your judgement).
    Holding your body (light as a feather) still stiff as a board develops strength primarily in your core – the muscles that connect your upper body and lower body – as well as your shoulders, arms and glutes.
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  19. #8299
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonedJordan View Post
    All pro, as you have graced us with your presence once again, I would like to ask you to chime in on a question I posed a while back.

    Do you have any suggestions for a natural progression from this workout? I would like a 3x per week program similar to this, where the volume is increased incrementally over the space of a few weeks, through higher sets or reps, more suited to early intermediate. I have been doing fierce 5 for just over a year now, from the beginner to the U/L.

    Nightanole suggested your routine but doing just the 2 heavy workouts each week. However, I would like to go 3 times per week. Would an alternating A/B workout 3 times per week, full body work? Or how about doing something similar to what your original routine stated but maybe lower rep work (5-8) Monday, medium rep (8-13) work wednesday, High rep work(14-18) Friday and each week use RIR to dictate progression?

    I have spent so much time (months) researching this but have found something that I feel will suit me yet. I am hoping to stick to fierce 5 until September, but progress isn’t ideal now and I have joint and back issues which makes consistent heavy weight work sub-optimal.

    Thanks a bunch
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1607202761

    and if you go 1-2 pages back, you will find allpro posted an ambiguous 5 rep program with deload days and no resets.

    And for core lifts, my 10 sets of 3 work for intermediates:

    sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest.
    Stop when you get a sloooooow rep
    If you get all 10 sets, up the weight 5-10% in order to drop it back down to 5-6 sets
    You can start with your allpro working weight, or your 5x5 working weight. It will auto regulate itself.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1607202761

    and if you go 1-2 pages back, you will find allpro posted an ambiguous 5 rep program with deload days and no resets.

    And for core lifts, my 10 sets of 3 work for intermediates:

    sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest.
    Stop when you get a sloooooow rep
    If you get all 10 sets, up the weight 5-10% in order to drop it back down to 5-6 sets
    You can start with your allpro working weight, or your 5x5 working weight. It will auto regulate itself.
    Thanks for your response again.

    I had seen his post already, but I am having issues with 5 rep work. The weight is causing my joints issues. I saw another thread where somebody said they moved from 5 rep work to nothing below 8 and most of their joint issues went away soon after.
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  21. #8301
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TonedJordan View Post
    Thanks for your response again.

    I had seen his post already, but I am having issues with 5 rep work. The weight is causing my joints issues. I saw another thread where somebody said they moved from 5 rep work to nothing below 8 and most of their joint issues went away soon after.
    I find it odd that its "the weight". If your 8 rep work is 135lbs, your 5 rep work is going to be 150lbs. Its not that much difference. Everyone is going to be working in the 65%-85% of 1rm range.

    The "worst" 5 rep program i posted was mad cow, and its a ramped, so you are only working with your correct 5 rep weight, using 5 reps, for i believe 2 sets a week. The rest of the time is sub maximal weight. Its the same with greyskull, 2 sub maximal 5 rep sets, and then one hopefully 7-9 rep set. Even my odd 10 sets of 3 has you using sub maximal weight.

    It is going to be very hard to find an intermediate program using heavy weight and high reps. Its kinda dangerous. Its normally going to be lower reps with sub maximal weight, in order to keep you from getting tired/sloppy, and to help with joints/connective tissue, since they seem to respond to the reps not the weight. You dont put 45 year olds that have been lifting 1-2 years, on the 20 rep squat program.
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    This is a great idea. I have a question. How do the reps reflect the appropriate weight, Should I be doing a weight that i can only perform the reps you mentioned for each week>
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    me too. Ill keep everyone updates on my stats. Im 5'9" 157 lbs. with a max bench of 160 for 7 reps
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    Originally Posted by Jammingreen View Post
    This is a great idea. I have a question. How do the reps reflect the appropriate weight, Should I be doing a weight that i can only perform the reps you mentioned for each week>
    You start the program with a weight you can get 10 solid good form reps with. You start the program at 8 reps, we give you 2 weeks to get used to the program before you are working with 10 reps.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You start the program with a weight you can get 10 solid good form reps with. You start the program at 8 reps, we give you 2 weeks to get used to the program before you are working with 10 reps.
    Your patience vastly proceeds mine. Can you script a program for that? I'll take 3x per week with declining levels of "Gives a sh**"
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    Originally Posted by JustinP72 View Post
    Your patience vastly proceeds mine. Can you script a program for that? I'll take 3x per week with declining levels of "Gives a sh**"
    Ive been pretty much copy pasting the same 25 replies since 2011. Its the only reason the allpro threads are not locked. Even the F5 gave up



    Any question you have about this program has already been asked a dozen times and already answered in this thread. If you spent a day or two reading the whole thread you'd have answers to hundreds of questions you didn't even know you had. If you REALLY want to make fitness part of your life you'll start there.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Ive been pretty much copy pasting the same 25 replies since 2011. Its the only reason the allpro threads are not locked. Even the F5 gave up



    Any question you have about this program has already been asked a dozen times and already answered in this thread. If you spent a day or two reading the whole thread you'd have answers to hundreds of questions you didn't even know you had. If you REALLY want to make fitness part of your life you'll start there.
    You and allpro have touched thousands of lives giving solid professional advice without ever asking for anything in return. That’s just amazing and inspirational.

    Nothing more needs to be said.

    Thank you for all your input and help.

    And yes it’s sad when people come to this thread and start asking question that’s answered in the first few paragraphs of the first post - that’s just sad. Shows the commitment and regard of others of the individuals.

    I’ll make a suggestion if you may - the first few sentences of the OP should be modified to guide new users to the “search forum” functionality and also tell the forum visitors that “teachers were wrong in school. There is such a thing as stupid question - specially if the stupid question has been answered 100 times before and no one took the time to go look it up”
    **^^ Work hard AND more importantly, work smart ^^**
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    You and allpro have touched thousands of lives giving solid professional advice without ever asking for anything in return. That’s just amazing and inspirational.

    Nothing more needs to be said.

    Thank you for all your input and help.

    And yes it’s sad when people come to this thread and start asking question that’s answered in the first few paragraphs of the first post - that’s just sad. Shows the commitment and regard of others of the individuals.

    I’ll make a suggestion if you may - the first few sentences of the OP should be modified to guide new users to the “search forum” functionality and also tell the forum visitors that “teachers were wrong in school. There is such a thing as stupid question - specially if the stupid question has been answered 100 times before and no one took the time to go look it up”
    Let me tell you about the hell that is OP...

    OP reaches thread limit every 10,000 posts
    When new OP is created, it can only be edited for the first 24-48 hours
    If a Mod auto locks the thread early, say at 9000 or 9500, its a mad scramble to get the new OP populated with the original OPs formatting.
    Last time it got locked like 2-3 months early, mid week. So had to message a mod to copy the first 3 posts of the old thread to the new thread. And i didnt have time mid week to update all the bad youtube videos or set any new clarifications etc.
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    Hi - I’m sure the answer is in the thread and I tried searching but Couldn’t find it.

    I did 10 rep week 3 Last week and passed all exercises except OHP on heavy day. Set one I got 10 reps and set 2 I got 8 reps. I rested 90 seconds as the programs calls for.

    Medium day I got all reps and all sets. Last rep on set 2 was slow and I could MAYBE do one more rep. May have failed half way if I attempted 11th rep. Or may not have...

    Light day I had maybe 2 reps in tank on OHP.

    What should I do come next heavy on Wednesday on week 4? Should I drop my weight on OHP or should I follow with the same weight and fail test week and repeat the weight cycle 2?

    Also, for bench, I had to change grips a bit as wide grip was messing my wrist/thumb a bit. I did it on light day and I think I had maybe 2 reps in tank instead of 3 or 4 that I was expecting. I’m worried what will happen heavy day on week 4. Should I attempt to drop the weight?

    Thank you!!
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Hi - I’m sure the answer is in the thread and I tried searching but Couldn’t find it.

    I did 10 rep week 3 Last week and passed all exercises except OHP on heavy day. Set one I got 10 reps and set 2 I got 8 reps. I rested 90 seconds as the programs calls for.

    Medium day I got all reps and all sets. Last rep on set 2 was slow and I could MAYBE do one more rep. May have failed half way if I attempted 11th rep. Or may not have...

    Light day I had maybe 2 reps in tank on OHP.

    What should I do come next heavy on Wednesday on week 4? Should I drop my weight on OHP or should I follow with the same weight and fail test week and repeat the weight cycle 2?

    Also, for bench, I had to change grips a bit as wide grip was messing my wrist/thumb a bit. I did it on light day and I think I had maybe 2 reps in tank instead of 3 or 4 that I was expecting. I’m worried what will happen heavy day on week 4. Should I attempt to drop the weight?

    Thank you!!
    Unless this is cycle 1 do not adjust the weights, from your concerns the weights are dam near perfect. Worst case you fail and have to repeat the weights next cycle because you didnt get 10% stronger(maybe you only got 5-7.5% stronger).

    The only advice is to up the carbs 50-100g for 3-5 days to see if that fixes the problem, and shorten the rest on medium and light days as much as possible, while keeping heavy day at the full 90 seconds.
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