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  1. #8251
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I’m soon going to switch to AllPro and I’ll be working out Wednesday (heavy), Friday and Sunday.

    Which day is recommended I do a 10 rep max test so I can lift Wednesday. I know my 5RM already for squats, bench press, OHP, deadlift (not SLD), bicep curls and 15RM for Calf Raises.

    Can I just use calculated 10RM for all exercises except SLD? I will be lifting the Sunday before (on Fierce 5) so will have Monday off and Tuesday also scheduled off (unless I do the test for AllPro on Tuesday).

    - also, when testing 10RM max what should the last rep feel like? As long as the form is ok, an absolute grinder with ALMOST good form RPE 10 should be counted as a rep or should a lower weight be used? I do have micro plates so I can knock off a pound or two easily.
    "no lifting 72 hours before any heavy" even if its the first heavy.

    As far as the 10 rep test, since you have lifting experience, you may want to start with a 12 rep max, with the 12th being a good form grinder. N00bs cant tax themselves at all even with a weight that would blow a blood vessel, but if you have some experience you can go all out and really tax your recovery. So it would better to start off a bit light. Worse case is test day is real easy, and you can bump 15-20% instead of the min 10%.
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  2. #8252
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    "no lifting 72 hours before any heavy" even if its the first heavy.

    As far as the 10 rep test, since you have lifting experience, you may want to start with a 12 rep max, with the 12th being a good form grinder. N00bs cant tax themselves at all even with a weight that would blow a blood vessel, but if you have some experience you can go all out and really tax your recovery. So it would better to start off a bit light. Worse case is test day is real easy, and you can bump 15-20% instead of the min 10%.
    Ok. So here’s the plan - I am current doing a 3x5 program.

    On Sunday I’ll do a 12RM workout for all AllPro exercises - I believe it’s one set only. I will then continue my 3x5 workout but will only do 2x5 on each exercise to compensate for the 10RM volume and rest Monday, Tuesday. Then do first heavy of AllPro on Wednesday.

    - Plan sounds good? Or should i just test my 10RM on Sunday and skip the other 3x5 workout?

    - I know there is a thread somewhere on how to go about finding 10RM but the link to the “finding 10RM thread” on page one of all AllPro threads (including this thread we’re on right now) are broken (has ... in the link). If you have that link, that’ll be very helpful

    - I am currently bulking at 250 surplus and will start my cut probably on that Sunday. I hope that’s fine or should I try and start cut a couple days before to let energy levels get stable by the time I do my 10RM test.

    Questions probably sound dumb, just don’t want to make anymore mistakes. I’ve recently figured that junk volume and under sleeping were hindering my recovery pretty bad...I put so much effort into my workouts, Ballz to the wallz, grinder last reps for so many months and I could have worked out less harder and had better gainz all this time.

    - let me just ask you while we’re at it - I’ve looked through my logs. After a deload, I feel real good and workouts are good up until week 3. Week 4 energy levels start going down, weight starts feeling heavy, I can get the reps and sets but it’s a grind. Sleep starts getting messed up also (stay awake in bed). Then I Skip a workout and on week 4, I feel like Superman all swollen/pumped. Feeling good.
    Is this to do with recovery? Anything I need to change? I hate that I have to deload ecery 4 weeks and my body actually telling me to deload sucks even more. Even 45lb plates start feeling heavy when I’m handling them and accessory exercises start going down in reps pretty significantly- specially bicep and triceps - I loose two to three reps on each set and end up going to failure and am sure that makes things even more worse.

    - after skipping a workout I usually have to drop 10lbs on the bar cuz weight feels heavy. I’ve seen people say they come back stronger and jump to the same weight they were lifting before the deload. Why am I not able to lift the same weight or even worse, have to go back in weight just after one missed workout (giving me 4 days off)
    Last edited by TryingBB; 05-15-2020 at 08:00 PM.
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  3. #8253
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Ok. So here’s the plan - I am current doing a 3x5 program.

    On Sunday I’ll do a 12RM workout for all AllPro exercises - I believe it’s one set only. I will then continue my 3x5 workout but will only do 2x5 on each exercise to compensate for the 10RM volume and rest Monday, Tuesday. Then do first heavy of AllPro on Wednesday.

    - Plan sounds good? Or should i just test my 10RM on Sunday and skip the other 3x5 workout?

    - I know there is a thread somewhere on how to go about finding 10RM but the link to the “finding 10RM thread” on page one of all AllPro threads (including this thread we’re on right now) are broken (has ... in the link). If you have that link, that’ll be very helpful

    - I am currently bulking at 250 surplus and will start my cut probably on that Sunday. I hope that’s fine or should I try and start cut a couple days before to let energy levels get stable by the time I do my 10RM test.

    Questions probably sound dumb, just don’t want to make anymore mistakes. I’ve recently figured that junk volume and under sleeping were hindering my recovery pretty bad...I put so much effort into my workouts, Ballz to the wallz, grinder last reps for so many months and I could have worked out less harder and had better gainz all this time.

    - let me just ask you while we’re at it - I’ve looked through my logs. After a deload, I feel real good and workouts are good up until week 3. Week 4 energy levels start going down, weight starts feeling heavy, I can get the reps and sets but it’s a grind. Sleep starts getting messed up also (stay awake in bed). Then I Skip a workout and on week 4, I feel like Superman all swollen/pumped. Feeling good.
    Is this to do with recovery? Anything I need to change? I hate that I have to deload ecery 4 weeks and my body actually telling me to deload sucks even more. Even 45lb plates start feeling heavy when I’m handling them and accessory exercises start going down in reps pretty significantly- specially bicep and triceps - I loose two to three reps on each set and end up going to failure and am sure that makes things even more worse.

    - after skipping a workout I usually have to drop 10lbs on the bar cuz weight feels heavy. I’ve seen people say they come back stronger and jump to the same weight they were lifting before the deload. Why am I not able to lift the same weight or even worse, have to go back in weight just after one missed workout (giving me 4 days off)
    Allpro may want to que in on this, since hes the old dude still doing 5x5 or 3x5, with no "resets" only deloads.

    Your plan sounds good. And yes its better to just do the allpro workout, in the order you think you will be doing the workout, for 1 set. You will find "in a vacuum" your lifts are alot higher, but during the workout they need to be much lower, at least for the first cycle till you have adapting. Ive had people who could OHP 1 plate, and still need to having a working weight of 70lbs just due to benching before hand, and benching/OHP 3x a week.

    Just pick a weight you know will stop you at 10-12 reps, and then you can adjust up or down a little via a calculator online. Even if you only get 8-9 reps in, you know that just means you have to remove 5% ish.


    Your recovery issues seem to be that you are skipping cardio or general GPP work, and only lifting. The only other time i see this happen is when the diet is not on point "for you". Some people just do Really good on high carb, and some just do Really good on high fat. I have not found anyone that does Really good on high protein. The high protein folk (say 200g of protein 50g of fat and 100-150g of carbs) just perform like sheet outside of lifting.


    But i will tell you allpro is alot easier to recover from vs 5x5 /3x5 with a lot of grinders.
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  4. #8254
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Ok. So here’s the plan - I am current doing a 3x5 program.

    On Sunday I’ll do a 12RM workout for all AllPro exercises - I believe it’s one set only. I will then continue my 3x5 workout but will only do 2x5 on each exercise to compensate for the 10RM volume and rest Monday, Tuesday. Then do first heavy of AllPro on Wednesday.

    - Plan sounds good? Or should i just test my 10RM on Sunday and skip the other 3x5 workout?

    - I know there is a thread somewhere on how to go about finding 10RM but the link to the “finding 10RM thread” on page one of all AllPro threads (including this thread we’re on right now) are broken (has ... in the link). If you have that link, that’ll be very helpful

    - I am currently bulking at 250 surplus and will start my cut probably on that Sunday. I hope that’s fine or should I try and start cut a couple days before to let energy levels get stable by the time I do my 10RM test.

    Questions probably sound dumb, just don’t want to make anymore mistakes. I’ve recently figured that junk volume and under sleeping were hindering my recovery pretty bad...I put so much effort into my workouts, Ballz to the wallz, grinder last reps for so many months and I could have worked out less harder and had better gainz all this time.

    - let me just ask you while we’re at it - I’ve looked through my logs. After a deload, I feel real good and workouts are good up until week 3. Week 4 energy levels start going down, weight starts feeling heavy, I can get the reps and sets but it’s a grind. Sleep starts getting messed up also (stay awake in bed). Then I Skip a workout and on week 4, I feel like Superman all swollen/pumped. Feeling good.
    Is this to do with recovery? Anything I need to change? I hate that I have to deload ecery 4 weeks and my body actually telling me to deload sucks even more. Even 45lb plates start feeling heavy when I’m handling them and accessory exercises start going down in reps pretty significantly- specially bicep and triceps - I loose two to three reps on each set and end up going to failure and am sure that makes things even more worse.

    - after skipping a workout I usually have to drop 10lbs on the bar cuz weight feels heavy. I’ve seen people say they come back stronger and jump to the same weight they were lifting before the deload. Why am I not able to lift the same weight or even worse, have to go back in weight just after one missed workout (giving me 4 days off)
    Well, first of all it's normal to be beat into the ground after 3 weeks on any 5x5 or power lifting type program. You have 2 choices with them. 1 deload every 4th week religiously. What that looks like depends on the program. If you're doing 5 sets across do three sets. If your doing 3 sets across do one set. If your doing one set reduce the weight 20%. Secondly, when the program is structured with RIR you 'shouldn't' need to deload. If you look at how the program called Madcow was structured you'll see what I mean. The program is actually Bill Starr's power lifting program that some body tried to screw with by adding in a percentage based increase system and some kind of screwy reset to use when you got stuck. The program is so good that it works anyway except that at some point you need to reset the weight because the progression is too fast to maintain. They should have stuck with the original 5 pound progression and dropped the weight of the 5 rep work out when they failed to get all 5 reps but left the weight where it was for the 3 rep work out. One way to fix things is to alter the rep progression. Typical 3x5 program, 1st week 3x5, second week go for 6 reps on the final set, third week go for 7 reps on the final set. If you get them add 5 pounds and start again. If you don't get the reps repeat the process. All of the soviet Olympic programs were written with 3 hard weeks followed by a deload week. ALL OF THEM!. And those guys were on gallons of gear and they still couldn't take the pounding any longer than for 3 weeks at a time. Thirdly, sleep is anabolic. Without it you don't recover so you can forget about super compensation. Right now it sounds like you need a week of to regroup.
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  5. #8255
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Well, first of all it's normal to be beat into the ground after 3 weeks on any 5x5 or power lifting type program. You have 2 choices with them. 1 deload every 4th week religiously. What that looks like depends on the program. If you're doing 5 sets across do three sets. If your doing 3 sets across do one set. If your doing one set reduce the weight 20%. Secondly, when the program is structured with RIR you 'shouldn't' need to deload. If you look at how the program called Madcow was structured you'll see what I mean. The program is actually Bill Starr's power lifting program that some body tried to screw with by adding in a percentage based increase system and some kind of screwy reset to use when you got stuck. The program is so good that it works anyway except that at some point you need to reset the weight because the progression is too fast to maintain. They should have stuck with the original 5 pound progression and dropped the weight of the 5 rep work out when they failed to get all 5 reps but left the weight where it was for the 3 rep work out. One way to fix things is to alter the rep progression. Typical 3x5 program, 1st week 3x5, second week go for 6 reps on the final set, third week go for 7 reps on the final set. If you get them add 5 pounds and start again. If you don't get the reps repeat the process. All of the soviet Olympic programs were written with 3 hard weeks followed by a deload week. ALL OF THEM!. And those guys were on gallons of gear and they still couldn't take the pounding any longer than for 3 weeks at a time. Thirdly, sleep is anabolic. Without it you don't recover so you can forget about super compensation. Right now it sounds like you need a week of to regroup.
    Wow, thanks for the deep explanation. Makes sense and I will follow.

    I don’t mind doing resets / deloads / take weeks off. My issue is when I come back after more than 2 days off I come back weaker. Like last time when I took a 6 days Completely off, I was down 15% on all my lifts. I took 4 days completely off and I had to drop about 8% to 10% on the bar.

    Is this normal? I am a newbie relatively with about 8 months lifting experience and have made some mistakes and lost ground. But I think now I understand my body a bit more and have the form down pretty well on most exercises.

    So about the deload weeks, is it normal and OK to loose so much strength? Am I loosing muscle too whenever my lifts go down after a deload week? My goal is muscle gains and strength is secondary (I realize they go hand in hand - just saying primary goal is aesthetics).
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  6. #8256
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Allpro may want to que in on this, since hes the old dude still doing 5x5 or 3x5, with no "resets" only deloads.

    Your plan sounds good. And yes its better to just do the allpro workout, in the order you think you will be doing the workout, for 1 set. You will find "in a vacuum" your lifts are alot higher, but during the workout they need to be much lower, at least for the first cycle till you have adapting. Ive had people who could OHP 1 plate, and still need to having a working weight of 70lbs just due to benching before hand, and benching/OHP 3x a week.

    Just pick a weight you know will stop you at 10-12 reps, and then you can adjust up or down a little via a calculator online. Even if you only get 8-9 reps in, you know that just means you have to remove 5% ish.


    Your recovery issues seem to be that you are skipping cardio or general GPP work, and only lifting. The only other time i see this happen is when the diet is not on point "for you". Some people just do Really good on high carb, and some just do Really good on high fat. I have not found anyone that does Really good on high protein. The high protein folk (say 200g of protein 50g of fat and 100-150g of carbs) just perform like sheet outside of lifting.


    But i will tell you allpro is alot easier to recover from vs 5x5 /3x5 with a lot of grinders.
    Thank thank thanks!! Yes I’ve completely skipped on my cardio / GPP. I used to bike (outdoor) a lot when I initially started weight loss. Then as I began learning about nutrition and weight lifting I cut out cardio unless I was warming up before a weight lifting session. And I suppose, really, since then I loose my breath easy even during deadlifts and recovery become a bish week 4 and I’m sluggish and start staying up in bed.

    Well I started cardio today - it’s not a lot but this is all I could do today - 30 minutes on the bike with 20 minutes HIIT. It felt great.

    Also, I am skinny fat at 20% bodyfat (yeah I know I shouldn’t be bulking but I decided to give it a go after loosing a bunch of weight and staying at maintenance then cutting again). I’m still experimenting what works for me. I bulked at 250 surplus from jan to march and went from 18% to 21% approx. during this time I tried 1g protien and I felt I gained more fat cuz of low protien.

    Anyhow, I then Went on maintenance and actually saw my bodyfat come down and I leaned out a bit from march till mid April (probably 19% bodyfat) I again went on a 250 surplus and started gaining weight and strength And feel I’m again surpassing 20%. So protien did not help gain lesser fat I suppose.

    I’m now planning to cut to 14% bodyfat at a minimum With a 500 deficit and then switch to a short bulk till 17% and cut back down to under 14% (or lower depending upon your answer to my question below). We shall see. I’m done with maintenance and I don’t want to get as low as 10% cuz at 5ft 8inches and skinnyfat I’ll be looking like a twig.

    I look forward to AllPro quite a bit.

    Question - muscle gains on allpro vs 3x5 should be similar provided effort and recovery is on point for both programs?

    Question - If you see issues with my plan above, please let me know.

    Question - you think difference between cutting to 12% and 14% is significant enough nutrition partitioning wise for me to attempt and get down to 12%?

    Thanks
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  7. #8257
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Wow, thanks for the deep explanation. Makes sense and I will follow.

    I don’t mind doing resets / deloads / take weeks off. My issue is when I come back after more than 2 days off I come back weaker. Like last time when I took a 6 days Completely off, I was down 15% on all my lifts. I took 4 days completely off and I had to drop about 8% to 10% on the bar.

    Is this normal? I am a newbie relatively with about 8 months lifting experience and have made some mistakes and lost ground. But I think now I understand my body a bit more and have the form down pretty well on most exercises.

    So about the deload weeks, is it normal and OK to loose so much strength? Am I loosing muscle too whenever my lifts go down after a deload week? My goal is muscle gains and strength is secondary (I realize they go hand in hand - just saying primary goal is aesthetics).
    NO! You absolutely shouldn't be losing strength after a deload. You should feel super charged. Something is wrong. Diet, sleep, active rest or training protocol is screwed up. Too high a frequency, too much volume or too high an intensity level for too long for you to recover from. After even a one week deload done properly you should return and be able to use more weight or do more reps or have more RIR. Not every program works for everyone or even to the same degree for everyone. That's why there are so many of them and why I'm fond of saying everything works and nothing works. That doesn't mean that what you are currently doing sucks. It just means it's the wrong program for you right now or your diet, sleep and active rest are deficient.
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  8. #8258
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    NO! You absolutely shouldn't be losing strength after a deload. You should feel super charged. Something is wrong. Diet, sleep, active rest or training protocol is screwed up. Too high a frequency, too much volume or too high an intensity level for too long for you to recover from. After even a one week deload done properly you should return and be able to use more weight or do more reps or have more RIR. Not every program works for everyone or even to the same degree for everyone. That's why there are so many of them and why I'm fond of saying everything works and nothing works. That doesn't mean that what you are currently doing sucks. It just means it's the wrong program for you right now or your diet, sleep and active rest are deficient.
    How do I go about finding the culprit then?

    My deloads are completely off days - no workouts or cardio. Just plain rest (from workout - life and work Obviously as usual)

    Every time I’ve gone on vacation or taken an intentional deload I come back weaker. I don’t think it’s in my head lol cuz I do try and lift the previous weight

    It is like this when I’m at maintenance, cutting or bulking.

    I get between 1g to 1.2g protien per lb of body weight. 0.5g fat per lb of bodyweight and rest in carbs.

    Sleep is iffy at times. 5 to 8 hours is what I get average being close to 7.

    I had complete cut out cardio since gyms are closed and I workout in my garage gym now. But starting today I’ve stared bicycling again - will try and get at least two HIIT 30 minute sessions a week.

    I am switching to allpro here pretty soon.

    Up until then what can I do to try and pinpoint the issue? Maybe I just need to reduce the volume and do 1 or 2 sets per exercises instead of 3x5 during my deload?

    I’ve been avoiding saying this cuz this is AllPro thread - but I’m following Fierce 5.
    Last edited by TryingBB; 05-17-2020 at 04:41 AM.
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  9. #8259
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    How do I go about finding the culprit then?

    My deloads are completely off days - no workouts or cardio. Just plain rest (from workout - life and work Obviously as usual)

    Every time I’ve gone on vacation or taken an intentional deload I come back weaker. I don’t think it’s in my head lol cuz I do try and lift the previous weight

    It is like this when I’m at maintenance, cutting or bulking.

    I get between 1g to 1.2g protien per lb of body weight. 0.5g fat per lb of bodyweight and rest in carbs.

    Sleep is iffy at times. 5 to 8 hours is what I get average being close to 7.

    I had complete cut out cardio since gyms are closed and I workout in my garage gym now. But starting today I’ve stared bicycling again - will try and get at least two HIIT 30 minute sessions a week.

    I am switching to allpro here pretty soon.

    Up until then what can I do to try and pinpoint the issue? Maybe I just need to reduce the volume and do 1 or 2 sets per exercises instead of 3x5 during my deload?

    I’ve been avoiding saying this cuz this is AllPro thread - but I’m following Fierce 5.
    Yea we know your are on F5 currently.

    I will say, lets say you are on 1.2g of protein and .5g of fats.

    Ive been recommending for years to start off with 100g of protein, 100g of fat, and 200-300g of carbs. So my min "cutting" diet is 2100 calories. Fat might be considered high, but most "bros" dont have a good fat profile, and carbs are a bit high, but guess what, your body can convert carbs to non essental amino acids very easily, but it can not convert protein to energy very easily.
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  10. #8260
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    How do I go about finding the culprit then?

    My deloads are completely off days - no workouts or cardio. Just plain rest (from workout - life and work Obviously as usual)

    Every time I’ve gone on vacation or taken an intentional deload I come back weaker. I don’t think it’s in my head lol cuz I do try and lift the previous weight

    It is like this when I’m at maintenance, cutting or bulking.

    I get between 1g to 1.2g protien per lb of body weight. 0.5g fat per lb of bodyweight and rest in carbs.

    Sleep is iffy at times. 5 to 8 hours is what I get average being close to 7.

    I had complete cut out cardio since gyms are closed and I workout in my garage gym now. But starting today I’ve stared bicycling again - will try and get at least two HIIT 30 minute sessions a week.

    I am switching to allpro here pretty soon.

    Up until then what can I do to try and pinpoint the issue? Maybe I just need to reduce the volume and do 1 or 2 sets per exercises instead of 3x5 during my deload?

    I’ve been avoiding saying this cuz this is AllPro thread - but I’m following Fierce 5.
    Five hours of sleep wont cut it. I have the same problem so I can say been there, done that. Most recommendations for active people are eight to ten hours. Most of us can't do that. The solution is to reduce activity levels to something we can handle. Weight train no more than 3 times per week. Mine is twice per week currently....for about the last decade! Swap cardio for HIIT [high intensity interval training]. 3x5 is a common set up for major core compound lifts. BUT there is a lot of accessory work on F5. I'm not going to try and rewrite the program. Bill Starr's and Mark Rippetoe's programs don't kill you with accessory work. There's a reason for that! How long do your current F5 work out take?
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yea we know your are on F5 currently.

    I will say, lets say you are on 1.2g of protein and .5g of fats.

    Ive been recommending for years to start off with 100g of protein, 100g of fat, and 200-300g of carbs. So my min "cutting" diet is 2100 calories. Fat might be considered high, but most "bros" dont have a good fat profile, and carbs are a bit high, but guess what, your body can convert carbs to non essental amino acids very easily, but it can not convert protein to energy very easily.
    I’ll give this a try however my energy levels during the day are not an issue unless sleep was real whacky. Isn’t 0.6g protien per lb of bodyweight (@100g protien and me being 170lbs) too low?

    I feel so much better and recovered much better in my lower body today and I think it’s really due to the bicycling yesterday. Helped big time. Had no clue.

    Thanks thanks!!
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Five hours of sleep wont cut it. I have the same problem so I can say been there, done that. Most recommendations for active people are eight to ten hours. Most of us can't do that. The solution is to reduce activity levels to something we can handle. Weight train no more than 3 times per week. Mine is twice per week currently....for about the last decade! Swap cardio for HIIT [high intensity interval training]. 3x5 is a common set up for major core compound lifts. BUT there is a lot of accessory work on F5. I'm not going to try and rewrite the program. Bill Starr's and Mark Rippetoe's programs don't kill you with accessory work. There's a reason for that! How long do your current F5 work out take?
    F5 was taking me about 60 minutes and that includes 5 to 7 minutes of warmup/dynamic stretching routine.

    I increased my rest times by 30 to 60 seconds and my last workout took 72 minutes or so.

    I’m wondering if I should “test” out these changes by letting it run another round till my body asks for another deload (probably 2 to 3 weeks away based on experience) or just switch to AllPro now.

    Changes include:
    - no going to failure even on last sets. I stop my sets at RPE 9.5 and miss reps if I have to
    - increased rest time between sets by 30 to 60 seconds
    - added cardio - two 30 minute HIIT outdoor bicycling sessions a week
    - gonna try and sleep better

    I may even skip a workout or just do 2 sets instead of 3 sets and repeat the weight next workout if I get crappy sleep for whatever reason the night before.
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I’ll give this a try however my energy levels during the day are not an issue unless sleep was real whacky. Isn’t 0.6g protien per lb of bodyweight (@100g protien and me being 170lbs) too low?

    I feel so much better and recovered much better in my lower body today and I think it’s really due to the bicycling yesterday. Helped big time. Had no clue.

    Thanks thanks!!
    Imagine you are 210lbs, and can cut at 4000-4500 cals a day. Now try to make a magic diet that is below 1.2g per pound, using whole foods and no protein powder. Its almost impossible. For some reason people take to mean that everyone needs 1.2 per pound, even if their TDEE is 2250 cals, or even 1800 cals. Because thats what the people who "made it" are eating. Its almost impossible for someone with a TDEE of even 2500 cals to get in 1-1.2g using whole foods. The only way to get it is to eat "macro blox" of super lean meats and protein powder, then they will eat a carb source with very little other macros, and then finish off the "diet" with a shot of olive oil and a shot of coconut oil, and maybe throw in some fish oil omega 3 pills. You will never find a college sports student "performing" on that.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Imagine you are 210lbs, and can cut at 4000-4500 cals a day. Now try to make a magic diet that is below 1.2g per pound, using whole foods and no protein powder. Its almost impossible. For some reason people take to mean that everyone needs 1.2 per pound, even if their TDEE is 2250 cals, or even 1800 cals. Because thats what the people who "made it" are eating. Its almost impossible for someone with a TDEE of even 2500 cals to get in 1-1.2g using whole foods. The only way to get it is to eat "macro blox" of super lean meats and protein powder, then they will eat a carb source with very little other macros, and then finish off the "diet" with a shot of olive oil and a shot of coconut oil, and maybe throw in some fish oil omega 3 pills. You will never find a college sports student "performing" on that.
    I see what you mean. Hmmm...not trying to argue but what about several researches I’ve seen quoted that show minimum 0.8g-1g protien to keep/grow muscle - specially on a cut.

    I’ll try and not be as freaked out if I get below 1g protien.

    By the way, workout today felt like a breeze. My hamstrings have been a bish last two weeks and today morning they felt totally recovered. I believe it’s the cardio from yesterday that must have helped. I’m supposed to do a 3x10 on hamstring curls and few weeks back I was able to curl 50lbs. Every week I’ve not been recovered and kept dropping the weight 5lbs cuz I was missing reps. Last week I curled frigging 25lbs (2x10 and 1x12 but i was still not feeling recovered as of yesterday before cardio). Today I was recovered, able to curl 30lbs and got 2x10 and 1x12 with a rep in the tank).

    I think You and allpro has troubleshooted my recovery issues (rest between sets and cardio on off days). Thank you so much!!

    I’ve started my cut already - couldn’t wait till another week or two...one of the big reason I was bulking at a high bodyfat Was because I was not making progress on my lifts. I hope results are different this time.

    I hope the gains keep coming and I’m able to drop fat at the same time.

    Again, thanks!!!
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    All Pro and nightanole - you guys have improved my understanding so much more. Can’t thank you enough.

    Cardio and adding 30 to 60 seconds of additional rest between sets is working wonders for me - I’m not running out of breath and recovery is not a bish. CNS is happier too I can feel.

    I do have a question - my main goal is hypertrophy aesthetics And General health purely - for my purposes, strength gains are a side effect of muscle gain.

    To clarify, I KNOW this is NOT possible, but if I could get a decent chest by just benching 100lbs for 15 reps I’d go for it - lol I know it’s not possible, but just saying - benching 300lbs or deadlifting 600lbs is not my dream (visit to snapcity is what I’m trying to avoid)

    So the question is, with this is mind (Hypertrophy goal), What type of results should I expect from AllPro compared to GreySkull, Fierce 5, SS, ICF, etc etc?
    I’m trying to get as much muscle gains as possible with least amount of heavy lifting - I realize will need to lift heavy but lifting heavy is not the absolute goal here.


    Thanks much!!
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    All Pro and nightanole - you guys have improved my understanding so much more. Can’t thank you enough.

    Cardio and adding 30 to 60 seconds of additional rest between sets is working wonders for me - I’m not running out of breath and recovery is not a bish. CNS is happier too I can feel.

    I do have a question - my main goal is hypertrophy aesthetics And General health purely - for my purposes, strength gains are a side effect of muscle gain.

    To clarify, I KNOW this is NOT possible, but if I could get a decent chest by just benching 100lbs for 15 reps I’d go for it - lol I know it’s not possible, but just saying - benching 300lbs or deadlifting 600lbs is not my dream (visit to snapcity is what I’m trying to avoid)

    So the question is, with this is mind (Hypertrophy goal), What type of results should I expect from AllPro compared to GreySkull, Fierce 5, SS, ICF, etc etc?
    I’m trying to get as much muscle gains as possible with least amount of heavy lifting - I realize will need to lift heavy but lifting heavy is not the absolute goal here.


    Thanks much!!
    The first time through you will probably get a shock effect. If diet, sleep and rest are in order expect to see some size gains! When that stops happening switch back to a heavier lower rep program. Rinse and repeat. Nothing lasts forever. So you use size gains to drive strength and then use strength gains to drive hypertrophy. After a while you'll find that there is a magic total number of reps that works for you for each goal so keep good records, take pictures, write down your body measurements and make lots of note in your journal after your workouts. After a while you'll see a pattern. Anyone that tells you that strength isn't important when your final goal is size is an idiot. For cutting and sculpting it isn't important but you've got to build it first!
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    The first time through you will probably get a shock effect. If diet, sleep and rest are in order expect to see some size gains! When that stops happening switch back to a heavier lower rep program. Rinse and repeat. Nothing lasts forever. So you use size gains to drive strength and then use strength gains to drive hypertrophy. After a while you'll find that there is a magic total number of reps that works for you for each goal so keep good records, take pictures, write down your body measurements and make lots of note in your journal after your workouts. After a while you'll see a pattern. Anyone that tells you that strength isn't important when your final goal is size is an idiot. For cutting and sculpting it isn't important but you've got to build it first!
    Makes total sense.

    How many cycles minimum should one run on All Pro before switching to another strength routine? I realize results would be individual but just wondering what the minimum time spent should be since a cycle is 5 weeks on AllPro
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Makes total sense.

    How many cycles minimum should one run on All Pro before switching to another strength routine? I realize results would be individual but just wondering what the minimum time spent should be since a cycle is 5 weeks on AllPro
    Until it stops working or you get tired of it. If you look through the original sticky there is a woman in there with the user name Bopeep. She used the program for over a year and a half. To say she was built would be an understatement. I'm sure there are guys in there that ran it for log periods of time too. But I don't remember their user names because I don't roll like that. But Bopeed........WOOOOW!
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Until it stops working or you get tired of it. If you look through the original sticky there is a woman in there with the user name Bopeep. She used the program for over a year and a half. To say she was built would be an understatement. I'm sure there are guys in there that ran it for log periods of time too. But I don't remember their user names because I don't roll like that. But Bopeed........WOOOOW!
    Can’t find Bopeed user - searches for her name on bb.com via google too and couldn’t locate her.

    Anyhow, I read in one of the responses on this thread about someone getting a tripod and recording themselves. I’ve been recording myself here and there (phone on top of trash can, on the floor, etc etc - pain in the Butt) and was thinking my form was great. Using the tripod, I can quickly change positions and tilt and record from any angle. Best $18 I ever spent.

    Gosh - yesterday I recorded all my sets and God my form sucks major ass. No wonder my chest isn’t growing and I can’t get past 135lbs, squat I thought I had fixed my lean forward out of the hole but it’s back and rows - God my upper back hurts (not literally) just thinking about that big bulge I had (lower back just fine) - I used to feel and think I was totally flat all through my rowing)

    Lowering weights and working on form next week or two

    Don’t feel good about lowering the weight but I guess I’ll have to...
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    I just managed to borrow myself a Concept2 rower, and since I won't be able to get back into the gym to continue my Allpro progress, I'm hoping to build a substitute program on the rower. This thing is the only equipment I have at home besides a pull-up bar, so I'm stuck with what I've got for now.

    Any quick and dirty rowing programs that the Allpro experts would recommend? I'd rather not just stick to regular old cardio on the rower, so I'm looking for something with a simple progression mechanism like Allpro that will build strength on the rower. I'm a total noob on this thing.. what metrics am I trying to optimize? Distance over time?

    I've done some searching and it looks like most rowing program recommendations are either for weight loss or for training for actual rowing. I don't really care to get good at rowing.. I just want to maintain/build strength and muscle and have something that is easy to track. Allpro works so well for me because of the easy gamification, i.e., psychologically speaking, when I'm in the gym doing Allpro, I'm trying to beat a specific number on a spreadsheet. That works great.
    Last edited by briancl2; 05-26-2020 at 08:12 AM.
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    Originally Posted by briancl2 View Post
    I just managed to borrow myself a Concept2 rower, and since I won't be able to get back into the gym to continue my Allpro progress, I'm hoping to build a substitute program on the rower. This thing is the only equipment I have at home besides a pull-up bar, so I'm stuck with what I've got for now.

    Any quick and dirty rowing programs that the Allpro experts would recommend? I'd rather not just stick to regular old cardio on the rower, so I'm looking for something with a simple progression mechanism like Allpro that will build strength on the rower. I'm a total noob on this thing.. what metrics am I trying to optimize? Distance over time?

    I've done some searching and it looks like most rowing program recommendations are either for weight loss or for training for actual rowing. I don't really care to get good at rowing.. I just want to maintain/build strength and muscle and have something that is easy to track. Allpro works so well for me because of the easy gamification, i.e., psychologically speaking, when I'm in the gym doing Allpro, I'm trying to beat a specific number on a spreadsheet. That works great.
    You have a cardio machine, so i dont know what to tell you...

    narrow chinups, wide pull ups, tricep and chest dips, master the pistol squat. You can SLDL just about anything, even other people. For OHP you can do walk walks.

    Till you start hitting over 25 reps, they all will be building muscle if you take them to near failure.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You can SLDL just about anything, even other people.
    They say necessity is the mother of invention. 😁

    You can pick up a set of 150lb resistance bands for under $50; they're all over Amazon. Not ideal - you'll obviously have to modify the lifts, alter rep amounts, etc., but it's manageable. I bought a set to get by during short trips where I won't have gym access and they get the job done as a standby/holdover. On the other hand, asking someone if I could try to deadlift them could lead to some interesting exchanges...
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    Originally Posted by JustinP72 View Post
    They say necessity is the mother of invention.

    You can pick up a set of 150lb resistance bands for under $50; they're all over Amazon. Not ideal - you'll obviously have to modify the lifts, alter rep amounts, etc., but it's manageable. I bought a set to get by during short trips where I won't have gym access and they get the job done as a standby/holdover. On the other hand, asking someone if I could try to deadlift them could lead to some interesting exchanges...
    5-6 year olds are about 1 plate
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    5-6 year olds are about 1 plate
    Lmao ... OHP a 6 year old...lol
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    Cool program for beginner its 5x5
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    5x5
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    Hi,

    Besides All-pro's "built-in" warm up of 2 sets with reduced weights, does anyone have any warm-up routines they recommend?

    Up until this point I've been doing a 5 minute stint on the elliptical, followed by some foam-rolling.

    Curious as to what others are doing.

    Thanks!
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    Originally Posted by BoreDefer View Post
    Hi,

    Besides All-pro's "built-in" warm up of 2 sets with reduced weights, does anyone have any warm-up routines they recommend?

    Up until this point I've been doing a 5 minute stint on the elliptical, followed by some foam-rolling.

    Curious as to what others are doing.

    Thanks!
    Salutations to the sun. Active stretching before the work out. NEVER do static stretching before an activity. Do them afterwords if you want to do them. https://trickle.app/drip/14130-the-s...for-beginners/
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  29. #8279
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Salutations to the sun. Active stretching before the work out. NEVER do static stretching before an activity. Do them afterwords if you want to do them. https://trickle.app/drip/14130-the-s...for-beginners/
    I do this before https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1e528F0pYPg

    And this after https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjqvO4gn8k

    I absolute love the “after” routine. It keeps me DOMS and pain free for the most part. Before these, I would get tight muscles like anything.

    Allpro, how is the “before video” I posted? I was thinking about this just yesterday that maybe it’s the dynamic stretching that keeps me from progressing in weights? My squats just suck...I do have a short torso and longer lower body and I discovered yesterday that’s not optimal for squatting.

    My squats are 105 x 8 and they are a grind. I have to have a wider stance and I keep bouncing forward out of the hole. Have to really concentrate to keep the bar in a straight line plus I Lean forward more than others that I’ve seen. I came across this yesterday https://bretcontreras.com/how-femur-...uat-mechanics/
    **^^ Work hard AND more importantly, work smart ^^**
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  30. #8280
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I do this before https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1e528F0pYPg

    And this after https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjqvO4gn8k

    I absolute love the “after” routine. It keeps me DOMS and pain free for the most part. Before these, I would get tight muscles like anything.

    Allpro, how is the “before video” I posted? I was thinking about this just yesterday that maybe it’s the dynamic stretching that keeps me from progressing in weights? My squats just suck...I do have a short torso and longer lower body and I discovered yesterday that’s not optimal for squatting.

    My squats are 105 x 8 and they are a grind. I have to have a wider stance and I keep bouncing forward out of the hole. Have to really concentrate to keep the bar in a straight line plus I Lean forward more than others that I’ve seen. I came across this yesterday https://bretcontreras.com/how-femur-...uat-mechanics/
    The pre-workout looks like a work out all by itself! The post workout looks fine. I use a wide stance for squats. Sumo style! If you're having balancing issues try wearing shoes with a heel and see if it helps also make sure you aren't leaning too far forward in an effort to cheat the weight up. That girls form looks bullet proof. I don't go down that far anymore. I just make sure that my hips are below my knees at the bottom. If I screw it up my knees let me know about it pretty quick.
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