AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Hi,

new here, after reading this thread for a while i decided to start with this program, and i have some questions

i am lifting weight for few month with not so good progress
age: 30
weight - 59kg (130lbs)
height - 170cm (5'7")
i consider myself as "skinny-fat". i pretty skinny on most part of my body, except my stomach that have some fat and really sticks out
so i would say i definitely not 15% BF, i'd say somewhere close to 20%

my questions:

1. my goal is to lose fat and gain some muscle and get rid of my belly, and not have the "skinny fat" look anymore
is this program good for me? any special consideration i should take rather than staying at a
calorie deficit?

2.regarding nutrition - i understand that my intake should be about 100g protein/fat, 200-300g carb. the thing is, when i use the TDEE calc it says that i need to eat around 1200 calories for fat lose.
it looks like a really low calorie diet, and i have a hard time getting the right amount of proteins i need
i was on a calorie deficit diet for about 2 months, with about 1400-1500 calories i did not see any weight/fat loss(making me believe that the TDEE calc is right).
what should i do?

3. my calves are pretty weak, it's the first time i will train this muscle, and it seems that i'm currently cannot do standing calves raises with more than my bodyweight with good form.
how should i calculate my progress?

1) end goal is bmi of 24 @13% bf, 10 reps of bw bench, 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats. I recomend most people to cut down to 13% first while learning the lifts, then slow bulk to bmi 25, then a 6-8 week mini cut to get back down to bmi 24 and 13%.

2) Here is the problem with 1200 calories. You will under eat to the point you can not perform well. You can try going 5-10% under the recommended 2100 cal cutting diet since you are 5.7. However it would be better to just up the cardio so you can get more nutrition in your pie hole. Personally my favorite diet is "eat stop eat" because its dead simple.

3) you can do them sitting down with a bar bell or dumb bell on your knee, and the ball of your foot on a Reebok step or a 2x4.

[engofis]

1) end goal is bmi of 24 @13% bf, 10 reps of bw bench, 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats. I recomend most people to cut down to 13% first while learning the lifts, then slow bulk to bmi 25, then a 6-8 week mini cut to get back down to bmi 24 and 13%.

2) Here is the problem with 1200 calories. You will under eat to the point you can not perform well. You can try going 5-10% under the recommended 2100 cal cutting diet since you are 5.7. However it would be better to just up the cardio so you can get more nutrition in your pie hole. Personally my favorite diet is "eat stop eat" because its dead simple.

3) you can do them sitting down with a bar bell or dumb bell on your knee, and the ball of your foot on a Reebok step or a 2x4.

Hi nightanole,

fist of all, thanks for the quick reply and for helping out

1. sounds good. my bench press almost bw, my squat real bad, less than my bw so i'll have to work it this

2. actually i have been testing with 1300-1400 calories with IF for few weeks, it looks like i'm getting some fat loss in the last couple of days
so i'll try to bump my calories a bit higher and do some lite cardio in the rest days

3. sitting sounds good, but i'm not sure i have something stable enough like 2x4 right now, and with the coronavirus situation i will not be able to buy one soon
what do you think about standing one leg calf raise? how can i calculate the reps/weight and progress?

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole,

fist of all, thanks for the quick reply and for helping out

1. sounds good. my bench press almost bw, my squat real bad, less than my bw so i'll have to work it this

2. actually i have been testing with 1300-1400 calories with IF for few weeks, it looks like i'm getting some fat loss in the last couple of days
so i'll try to bump my calories a bit higher and do some lite cardio in the rest days

3. sitting sounds good, but i'm not sure i have something stable enough like 2x4 right now, and with the coronavirus situation i will not be able to buy one soon
what do you think about standing one leg calf raise? how can i calculate the reps/weight and progress?

Uhhh i thought you could not do standing calf raises...

Any way the easiest and greatest range of motion is doing them on a step with 1 hand on the railing. This is a cosmetic exercise. If you can barely do 12 reps of body weight(either 1 legged or two), then just do 2 sets to failure/slooooow rep, till you can do 24 reps. Calf raises and curls are a wild card, and you can adjust them quite a lot.

[all pro]

Hi nightanole,

fist of all, thanks for the quick reply and for helping out

1. sounds good. my bench press almost bw, my squat real bad, less than my bw so i'll have to work it this

2. actually i have been testing with 1300-1400 calories with IF for few weeks, it looks like i'm getting some fat loss in the last couple of days
so i'll try to bump my calories a bit higher and do some lite cardio in the rest days

3. sitting sounds good, but i'm not sure i have something stable enough like 2x4 right now, and with the coronavirus situation i will not be able to buy one soon
what do you think about standing one leg calf raise? how can i calculate the reps/weight and progress?

I'm going to assume you're a male. At 5'7" 130 pounds you shouldn't be looking to loose weight. If you're an active person you need about 1950 calories to maintain your weight.

[engofis]

I'm going to assume you're a male. At 5'7" 130 pounds you shouldn't be looking to loose weight. If you're an active person you need about 1950 calories to maintain your weight.

sorry forgot to mention this, yes, i'm a male
I'm really looking to lose some fat, can you please explain in more details how i can achieve this with 1950 calories? i just followed the TDEE calc

[nightanole]

sorry forgot to mention this, yes, i'm a male
I'm really looking to lose some fat, can you please explain in more details how i can achieve this with 1950 calories? i just followed the TDEE calc

PER WEEK:
running the program will create a 1500 cal deficit
Jogging 3x10k during the week will create a 1500 cal deficit
Adding 1 pound of muscle to your frame will create a 400 cal deficit

You decide on how to create that 3500 per week deficit to lose 1 pound of fat per week. But Allpro and I both told you that you will not be very successful eating 1300-1500 cals a day. You will be under eating for your height, which will give you low energy, which will reduce your TDEE. So in the end you will not want to jog or lift, have low energy, and your TDEE will go from 2000, down to the 1300-1500 that you are eating, so you will end up just spinning your wheels.



Now i complety understand where you are coming from. You are 5.7 130, and want to loose the belly, aka 15-20lbs. So in the end of the first phase you will be "skinny" with a bmi of 19-20. Other coaches will recomend increasing your ""weight" to 150lbs, and keep the gut, so that the extra 10-15lbs of muscle you gain, will help the cut go faster. But its really down to what the lifter wants to look like for the first year of lifting. I find its a bit more motivating to be "skinny" and get to watch the muscle grow, but for others its more motivating to watch the scale go up while the waist measurements remain the same.

[engofis]

PER WEEK:
running the program will create a 1500 cal deficit
Jogging 3x10k during the week will create a 1500 cal deficit
Adding 1 pound of muscle to your frame will create a 400 cal deficit

You decide on how to create that 3500 per week deficit to lose 1 pound of fat per week. But Allpro and I both told you that you will not be very successful eating 1300-1500 cals a day. You will be under eating for your height, which will give you low energy, which will reduce your TDEE. So in the end you will not want to jog or lift, have low energy, and your TDEE will go from 2000, down to the 1300-1500 that you are eating, so you will end up just spinning your wheels.



Now i complety understand where you are coming from. You are 5.7 130, and want to loose the belly, aka 15-20lbs. So in the end of the first phase you will be "skinny" with a bmi of 19-20. Other coaches will recomend increasing your ""weight" to 150lbs, and keep the gut, so that the extra 10-15lbs of muscle you gain, will help the cut go faster. But its really down to what the lifter wants to look like for the first year of lifting. I find its a bit more motivating to be "skinny" and get to watch the muscle grow, but for others its more motivating to watch the scale go up while the waist measurements remain the same.

thanks for the detailed explanation

so if i understand correctly, going with about 2000 calories would be a better way with some lite cardio or few days of walking - will do that(starting next week)
i need to keep 2000 calories till the end of the program or adjust up/down with progression?

[nightanole]

thanks for the detailed explanation

so if i understand correctly, going with about 2000 calories would be a better way with some lite cardio or few days of walking - will do that(starting next week)
i need to keep 2000 calories till the end of the program or adjust up/down with progression?

WIth the youngings, the 2500 cal bulk, will turn into a 2500 cal cut, by the time they got the 10lbs of muscle of n00b gains, since that ups the weekly TDEE by 4000 cals.

This is why the guys that are 190-200lbs and 13%, cut at 3500-4000 cals, per day.


So long story short, by the end of the program 2000 cals will not be enough to gain muscle.

[engofis]

WIth the youngings, the 2500 cal bulk, will turn into a 2500 cal cut, by the time they got the 10lbs of muscle of n00b gains, since that ups the weekly TDEE by 4000 cals.

This is why the guys that are 190-200lbs and 13%, cut at 3500-4000 cals, per day.


So long story short, by the end of the program 2000 cals will not be enough to gain muscle.

sorry, i'm a little bit confused, i do not understand what would be the best option
should i start with 2500 calories(or maybe more)? and later in the program stay with 2500 or change it to lower/higher?
i'll will go with your recommendation, just say what you think would be best for me

thanks.

[nightanole]

sorry, i'm a little bit confused, i do not understand what would be the best option
should i start with 2500 calories(or maybe more)? and later in the program stay with 2500 or change it to lower/higher?
i'll will go with your recommendation, just say what you think would be best for me

thanks.

No.

Start around 1800-2200 cals. Whatever the least amount is that you can still perform on. During that time you will be learning the lifts and "bulking" off your spare tire. At some point your lifts will start to stall, and you start upping the calories. If upping the calories causes a bit more fat gain than you like, up the cardio. The point is to get your TDEE up so you can get more nutrition into your pie hole. No one is telling you to lose "weight" at this point. The old saying was something like "if you want to look like you lost 20lbs, gain 10lbs of muscle".

At this point your bmi is like 20.
six-eight weeks before the end of the program(say 9-10 months from now), it should be around 160lbs
And you will end the program around 150lbs, and be able to bench 150lbs for 10, and squat around 200lbs for 10. You can mess around with the numbers, but you should be going from 130lbs 22-25%bf, to 150lbs 13% bf, in about a year.

[sryan79]

I am in week 2 of cycle 1 and am thinking I started to light. If I continue to find it relatively easy is there any harm to making an increase of more than 10% when starting my second cycle? Thanks.

[all pro]

I am in week 2 of cycle 1 and am thinking I started to light. If I continue to find it relatively easy is there any harm to making an increase of more than 10% when starting my second cycle? Thanks.

Talk to me on week 5!!!!!!!

[sryan79]

Talk to me on week 5!!!!!!!

Sounds good! I shall return week 5. Thanks.

[Tomtompipersson]

Yeah good advice, i started, week 1 was ridic easy, i thought about bumping up the weights immediately, but then read to just be patient, and i just completed week 5 c1, and to be honest it was on the bench press that was still relatively easy on week 5, all lifts were passed and looking forward to c2 this week, but yeah, there is no rush and it will get tough quick, so just stick to your program would be my advice, it seems to work very efficiently in terms of progressive overload, and at some point will get too tough, so enjoy the process and take it as it comes.

[pauly1998]

Talk to me on week 5!!!!!!!

So very true. I did week 4 cycle 1 yesterday and like most the first 3 weeks felt pretty easy. I did start with lower weights on a few exercises so that I can practice my form and doing goblet squat cause I'm a weakling. After week 4 I started to understand what everyone meant about wait it'll get harder.

I have a question regarding the overhead press. I can't do them standing with a barbell because of ceiling height so I'm doing seated arnold presses. I can do standing dumbbell presses, seated dumbbell press or seated barbell press although I only have a flat bench so won't have the back support.

Are the arnold presses my best option?

[paulinkansas]

Are the arnold presses my best option?

Do both. Cut your volume in half and do Arnold presses and standing dumb bell presses. You're cutting the volume in half but you are going to do two exercises. Therefore, the volume is the same if you understand what I'm trying to say.

[all pro]

So very true. I did week 4 cycle 1 yesterday and like most the first 3 weeks felt pretty easy. I did start with lower weights on a few exercises so that I can practice my form and doing goblet squat cause I'm a weakling. After week 4 I started to understand what everyone meant about wait it'll get harder.

I have a question regarding the overhead press. I can't do them standing with a barbell because of ceiling height so I'm doing seated arnold presses. I can do standing dumbbell presses, seated dumbbell press or seated barbell press although I only have a flat bench so won't have the back support.

Are the arnold presses my best option?

I have a low ceiling. I have to do over head press while seated on my bench with no back support. It's either that or cut a hole in the kitchen floor. Sit on the bench like you're riding a horse. Don't try it the other way!

[pauly1998]

I have a low ceiling. I have to do over head press while seated on my bench with no back support. It's either that or cut a hole in the kitchen floor. Sit on the bench like you're riding a horse. Don't try it the other way!

Thanks, I'll stick to the arnold presses for now as I doubt i can lift the bar, then switch over in a few cycles.

Is the form for the seated press pretty much the same as the standing press?

[all pro]

Thanks, I'll stick to the arnold presses for now as I doubt i can lift the bar, then switch over in a few cycles.

Is the form for the seated press pretty much the same as the standing press?

Yes it is.

[NicholasMango]

Two of them are lifting with me now, but this question is about the younger one. She's 13 so everything is very lightweight.
Her pulling movements seems to be much stronger than her pressing movements, I suspect because she's been doing gymnastics. Her only real pressing movements is from volleyball, but that's nothing compared to the gymnastics.


I'm running All Pro's begginer sans legs (my squat rack is too high for them to use and is not adjustable. I'm not sure how to workaround that so I may have to build another one for them)

anyway she lifted this today (first time ever lifting so I did just 1 set for a test day)

9 reps 20lb dumbell bench press (10lb each hand)
10 reps single arm dumbell rows (these looked very very very easy for her. She probably could have done 20 tbh)
7 reps 25lb OHP (used a 25lb plate for this)
13 reps 20lb dumbell upright rows (10lb each hand)

Should I try to balance out her pushing and pulling movements or should I just let them progress independently?


Negs on sight for anyone who asks for pics of a 13 year old girl.

I posted this in the misc (mostly because I didn't realize this thread was still active.)
Could I get your opinion all pro?


To clarify the main question is whether I should intentionally stall her pulling movements until the pressing movements catch up or if I should just train all movements independently, I assume the latter, but I'm far from an expert.

secondarily if you have any ideas on how to do squats/calf raises without a squat rack at their height (mine is not adjustable)

Should I have them do SLDL's if I cant have them do squats? or should I have them do regular deadlifts?




additionally, can you comment on whether you think any lifter should train based on perceived levels of exertion instead of pre planned progressive overload?



sorry if thats too many questions lol

[paulinkansas]

secondarily if you have any ideas on how to do squats/calf raises without a squat rack at their height (mine is not adjustable)
l

Build a platform. You can use some 3 foot pieces of 2x12 or 2x10 lumber. Or you can use a pallet and place 2x12's over it. Most places will give pallets away. Or some cement blocks. Or books.

[NicholasMango]

Build a platform. You can use some 3 foot pieces of 2x12 or 2x10 lumber. Or you can use a pallet and place 2x12's over it. Most places will give pallets away. Or some cement blocks. Or books.

Are you talking about a platform to fit under the squat rack?

Or an entirely separate structure?

for context this is what I'm working with.

[all pro]

Are you talking about a platform to fit under the squat rack?

Or an entirely separate structure?

for context this is what I'm working with.

Build a platform under it for her.

[NicholasMango]

Build a platform under it for her.

Can't believe I didn't think of that myself tbh. Thank you.

Any thoughts on my other questions?

[all pro]

Can't believe I didn't think of that myself tbh. Thank you.

Any thoughts on my other questions?

Given enough time all of the lifts will hit their own level. That's why I never worry about it when someone's bench press is equal to or more than their squat. I know their progress on bench press will crash and burn and the squats will continue until the lifts get to their proper relationship. The amazing thing to me is when people are surprised and mad when that happens.

[NicholasMango]

Given enough time all of the lifts will hit their own level. That's why I never worry about it when someone's bench press is equal to or more than their squat. I know their progress on bench press will crash and burn and the squats will continue until the lifts get to their proper relationship. The amazing thing to me is when people are surprised and mad when that happens.

Makes sense. Thanks for your help!

[engofis]

Hi,

i'm pretty sure it was discussed earlier but i cannot find it

is it valid to do all the 6 warmup sets first and then start with the regular lifts(set 3&4)?
i have to change the weight for every set so just try to figure out if i can optimize this

[nightanole]

Hi,

i'm pretty sure it was discussed earlier but i cannot find it

is it valid to do all the 6 warmup sets first and then start with the regular lifts(set 3&4)?
i have to change the weight for every set so just try to figure out if i can optimize this

Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
Curls: work-set, work-set
Calf Raises: work-set, work-set


Generally you can fudge the numbers and the plate variaty. I bought an extra set of 25's, and a several extra sets of 10's, just to make it faster. You dont have to use a pair of 45's if you are doing 135lbs, you can use the bar, some 25's, and 2 10's... The key with the warmup is rig it up so you dont have to take off weight.

[DeepDishPlate]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in earlier threads but for those who prefer an app over paper log or spreadsheet, and if you have Android; there's a pretty good free app in the Google play store for AllPro's SBR that I've used a fair amount. Automatically calculates new weights after test week and 100/90/80% throughout the week. I think the app is called AllPro Workout.

[engofis]

Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
Curls: work-set, work-set
Calf Raises: work-set, work-set


Generally you can fudge the numbers and the plate variaty. I bought an extra set of 25's, and a several extra sets of 10's, just to make it faster. You dont have to use a pair of 45's if you are doing 135lbs, you can use the bar, some 25's, and 2 10's... The key with the warmup is rig it up so you dont have to take off weight.

i did not totally under your explanation(sorry, not a native English speaker)

for example, for heavy days, my workout sets are( in KG):
Squat set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -22.5kg || Set 3&4 - 47.5kg
Bench Press set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -20kg || Set 3&4 - 40kg
Bent Over Row set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -20kg || Set 3&4 - 40kg

my bar is 10KG
i have only 4 plates of 7.5, many plates of 5 / 2.5 / 1.25
so for every set i have to adjust my weight up, than remove it for doing the next exercise and again adjust up

so i'm not sure what you meant by "you dont have to take off weight"