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  1. #7981
    Registered User WakingOp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Every cycle should be started with 2 reps in the bank on heavy day on the second set. If you are just barely getting them, then you are working too close to failure and will get buried in fatigue.

    Yes you have the 14-20 pattern understood.

    After 5-10 reps its hard to judge how many reps you have left in the tank, and how many reps you need to add to make the exercise 10% harder. As an example if you were doing 50 rep squats, and increased it to 75 reps, you did not increase your calculated 1 rep max 10%, it didnt even increase 5%.

    So:
    3-10 rep range its about 4 reps to increase 1rm 10%
    11- 20 it could be around 6-7 reps
    By 25 reps its an easy 10 reps or more
    by 50 reps you may have to double your reps

    But that also works in reverse, so with a much higher rep range you can increase cycle to cycle say 5-7.5% calculated 1rm without breaking the allpro pattern, because the rep drop does not create as deep of a deload.
    So if I did my first heavy day, made it through the workout but was already at a good rpe 8+...I could not have gotten 10 reps on most of these.

    Should I take 5 pounds off going forward? I used a calculated 10rm, but 2x8 was hard. I switched from a 5x5 repo scheme, I haven't actually done this many reps, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it was just a bad day. I hit an amrap last week on my final set 125x9, but could barely get 115. That was my first lift. Then squats, I did a warmup set at 95, and realized that was gonna be my working weight, when I planned on using 120.

    Idk if it's just the brisk pace, my timer was going off by the time I had the weight changed...or just a bad day. I guess I should do 2 heavies? And see if they feel more like I expected, I don't wanna drop the weight and spend 5 weeks with too little weight. I don't wanna kill myself either though.
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  2. #7982
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    So if I did my first heavy day, made it through the workout but was already at a good rpe 8+...I could not have gotten 10 reps on most of these.

    Should I take 5 pounds off going forward? I used a calculated 10rm, but 2x8 was hard. I switched from a 5x5 repo scheme, I haven't actually done this many reps, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it was just a bad day. I hit an amrap last week on my final set 125x9, but could barely get 115. That was my first lift. Then squats, I did a warmup set at 95, and realized that was gonna be my working weight, when I planned on using 120.

    Idk if it's just the brisk pace, my timer was going off by the time I had the weight changed...or just a bad day. I guess I should do 2 heavies? And see if they feel more like I expected, I don't wanna drop the weight and spend 5 weeks with too little weight. I don't wanna kill myself either though.
    Remember this is not even close to 3x5 or 5/3/1 programming. The point of the pattern is to keep you fatigued so that the lighter weight takes just as much effort as the heavy weight, while allowing you to recover faster so you can increase frequency, and the lighter weight prevents connective tissue flareups.

    But yes I would drop the weight till you are used to the new rep range and tempo. In an ideal world you would adjust to the new program quickly, so that next cycle you can bump well over 10%. You might be bumping 15-20% on some lifts.

    You cant really calculate a 10 rep max. You more or less have to do the routine with a weight you think you can lift 8-10 times, and then spend a session or 2 "tuning"
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  3. #7983
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Remember this is not even close to 3x5 or 5/3/1 programming. The point of the pattern is to keep you fatigued so that the lighter weight takes just as much effort as the heavy weight, while allowing you to recover faster so you can increase frequency, and the lighter weight prevents connective tissue flareups.

    But yes I would drop the weight till you are used to the new rep range and tempo. In an ideal world you would adjust to the new program quickly, so that next cycle you can bump well over 10%. You might be bumping 15-20% on some lifts.

    You cant really calculate a 10 rep max. You more or less have to do the routine with a weight you think you can lift 8-10 times, and then spend a session or 2 "tuning"
    Yeah, that's actually why I decided to run this instead. I have an old rotator cuff injury I'm apprehensive about, and tennis elbow starting to get bad. I figure lighter weights would be better than 531 weights. I didn't calculate them from 1rm though, I used amrap weights, that were pretty close to 10, but I had to drop eight from that to even get 2x8. Was kinda shocking. I was planning to knock some of them out for 2x12. Did not happen

    So I'll drop the weight. You think I should do another heavy this week to test it out, then start week 1 next week. or just drop 10 pounds and carry on? I'm thinking option b seems simpler. Actually, I'll just do that.

    I'd rep ya, but I'm on spread cause you laid some knowledge In another thread
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  4. #7984
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    Hi,

    Loving the workout and all the comments and questions / responses.

    I've run through one cycle but due to work / home / time constraints I can only get to the gym realistically twice a week. I've read this is fine, just make them both heavy sessions but I'm guessing the program was designed specifically for 3 sessions a week deloading slightly to aid recovery / growth...

    So, my question is how long can I realistically run this program on 2 heavy days a week, should I add in the occassional deload / medium week, (or just take a medium day as and when if my body needs it), or should I consider looking for a different program all together if my work / home / lack of time situation turns into something more permanent???

    Thanks in advance.
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  5. #7985
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    Yeah, that's actually why I decided to run this instead. I have an old rotator cuff injury I'm apprehensive about, and tennis elbow starting to get bad. I figure lighter weights would be better than 531 weights. I didn't calculate them from 1rm though, I used amrap weights, that were pretty close to 10, but I had to drop eight from that to even get 2x8. Was kinda shocking. I was planning to knock some of them out for 2x12. Did not happen

    So I'll drop the weight. You think I should do another heavy this week to test it out, then start week 1 next week. or just drop 10 pounds and carry on? I'm thinking option b seems simpler. Actually, I'll just do that.

    I'd rep ya, but I'm on spread cause you laid some knowledge In another thread
    yea id just drop 10 pounds so you at least have a guaranteed pass. And like i said you may be able to bump 15-20% next cycle depending on how fast you adapt.
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  6. #7986
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MadFrankie View Post
    Hi,

    Loving the workout and all the comments and questions / responses.

    I've run through one cycle but due to work / home / time constraints I can only get to the gym realistically twice a week. I've read this is fine, just make them both heavy sessions but I'm guessing the program was designed specifically for 3 sessions a week deloading slightly to aid recovery / growth...

    So, my question is how long can I realistically run this program on 2 heavy days a week, should I add in the occassional deload / medium week, (or just take a medium day as and when if my body needs it), or should I consider looking for a different program all together if my work / home / lack of time situation turns into something more permanent???

    Thanks in advance.
    Heavy heavy long term is just repeating heavy day twice a week, at least 72 hours apart, and adding 1 extra set to each of the first 3 exercises(bench/row/squat) to make up for the lost volume. "test day" is still 2 sets for all exercises.

    Bare in mind Heavy Heavy is not for a feint of heart. Most give up after 2 cycles or so and go back to regular. It is very taxing.

    Your other option is to run autoregulated which i posted a link to several times in the last 2-3 pages. You could run autoregulated even once a week just to maintain till life gets less hectic.
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  7. #7987
    Registered User MadFrankie's Avatar
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    Great, thanks for the quick response.

    I half assumed the heavy / heavy week wouldn’t be easy otherwise it would be a recommendation rather than an adaptation. 😀

    I might give it a cycle and see how I get on but will take a look at the auto regulated as well.

    On a different note, I can currently train Monday and Friday, so could I just do the standard all pro Monday heavy, Friday medium, Monday light and then continue the cycle that way or is 3 days between each one losing the point a bit?
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  8. #7988
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MadFrankie View Post
    Great, thanks for the quick response.

    I half assumed the heavy / heavy week wouldn’t be easy otherwise it would be a recommendation rather than an adaptation.

    I might give it a cycle and see how I get on but will take a look at the auto regulated as well.

    On a different note, I can currently train Monday and Friday, so could I just do the standard all pro Monday heavy, Friday medium, Monday light and then continue the cycle that way or is 3 days between each one losing the point a bit?
    Allpro does not do well with more than 7 days between heavies. In fact no program does well with that frequency. On top of that you are good to go again 72 hours after a heavy, which is why medium is only 48 hours so you are still fatigued.
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  9. #7989
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Allpro does not do well with more than 7 days between heavies. In fact no program does well with that frequency. On top of that you are good to go again 72 hours after a heavy, which is why medium is only 48 hours so you are still fatigued.
    Thanks, I think I’ll give the 2 heavy sessions a week a go for 1 cycle and see how I go while checking out the auto reg program.

    Thanks for your help / advice.
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  10. #7990
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    hey night, just checking in. I’m incredibly proud of the progress I’m making, and honestly I feel really energetic and this weight lifting is really making me feel like a million bucks. Especially an hour or two after working out.

    Thank you so much for your advice in this entire thread. I’ve gone through and read many many posts just to see the advice you have given others. Very very helpful. Thanks again for that.

    My numbers today:
    Using barbell except where noted:

    Two working sets:
    Zercher Squat 65
    Bench 115
    BOR 70
    OHP 60
    SLDL 70

    One or two sets:
    Chinups Assist machine: 5th lever (obviously,...limited info on that...)

    One set:
    Face Pulls using cable machine: 7th lever (in the 30's)
    Hammer 20# dumbells per side
    Calf Body Weight (245) x 12 reps

    My weights are still increasing regularly. Thanks again!

    PS, just a reminder I started out at 7 1/2 pound dumbbells per side benchpress. Of course it increased fairly rapidly. I feel pretty great now and my body starting to look better
    Last edited by 27MinuteMiracle; 01-16-2020 at 09:26 PM.
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  11. #7991
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    hey night, just checking in. I’m incredibly proud of the progress I’m making, and honestly I feel really energetic and this weight lifting is really making me feel like a million bucks. Especially an hour or two after working out.

    Thank you so much for your advice in this entire thread. I’ve gone through and read many many posts just to see the advice you have given others. Very very helpful. Thanks again for that.

    My numbers today:
    Using barbell except where noted:

    Two working sets:
    Zercher Squat 65
    Bench 115
    BOR 70
    OHP 60
    SLDL 70

    One or two sets:
    Chinups Assist machine: 5th lever (obviously,...limited info on that...)

    One set:
    Face Pulls using cable machine: 7th lever (in the 30's)
    Hammer 20# dumbells per side
    Calf Body Weight (245) x 12 reps

    My weights are still increasing regularly. Thanks again!

    PS, just a reminder I started out at 7 1/2 pound dumbbells per side benchpress. Of course it increased fairly rapidly. I feel pretty great now and my body starting to look better
    Id like to see that row at 95lbs, but other than that everything looks great.
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  12. #7992
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Id like to see that row at 95lbs, but other than that everything looks great.
    I’ll work on it!
    Thanks for the advice.

    I’ve had form problems, and currently it seems that pulling it more towards my bellybutton rather than a few inches above that is working much better, if there are no objections.

    How wide should our grip be?
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  13. #7993
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    I’ll work on it!
    Thanks for the advice.

    I’ve had form problems, and currently it seems that pulling it more towards my bellybutton rather than a few inches above that is working much better, if there are no objections.

    How wide should our grip be?
    I try to tell beginners to treat it as a reverse bench press. So the goal is to use the same grip, and hit the same spot, as the bench press. Once you get some experience/strength you can try other variants such as reversing the grip or being more upright and hitting between your waist and belly button. I dont advise those from the get go because reversing the grip can cause bicep tendonitis if its not ready for it, and hitting between the waist and belly button is normally considered cheating on the bent over row, because you become more upright which deloads the lower back instead of reenforcing it.
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  14. #7994
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    Just checking in- just did cycle 4 week 5 heavy (test day). Passed everything except Overhead Press (12 reps, 10 reps) I think my numbers are all in spec.... but math says I'll need some >10% increases to get to "AllPro Graduation" by cycle 7.

    Male, height 6', weight ~175lbs, age 33. All weights in lbs.

    Squat 175 ---> raise to 200
    Bench 115 ---> raise to 130 (135 for 1 plate? hmm, it was not e-z at 115)
    Bent over row 115 ---> raise to 130 (135 for 1 plate again? tempting)
    Overhead press 75 ---> failed, stay 75
    SLDL 135 ---> raise to 155
    Curl 70 ---> raise to 80 (this one was TOUGH end of the workout, honestly was some body english to get final 12 reps)

    I've been doing calf raises usually twice a week, 3 sets of 12 reps. Getting my cardio done no problem. Doing OK on macros but not eating enough overall to really be gaining weight (up 10 pounds since cycle 1, none last couple cycles).

    I feel like I need to add an accessory for back work too, bent over row feels pretty easy and I'm leaving workouts feeling pretty taxed everywhere but the back. Probably assisted chinups? Do any of those other numbers look way out of whack?

    Thank you for this great thread and for sharing wisdom with everyone on the program.
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  15. #7995
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by carsonm View Post
    Just checking in- just did cycle 4 week 5 heavy (test day). Passed everything except Overhead Press (12 reps, 10 reps) I think my numbers are all in spec.... but math says I'll need some >10% increases to get to "AllPro Graduation" by cycle 7.

    Male, height 6', weight ~175lbs, age 33. All weights in lbs.

    Squat 175 ---> raise to 200
    Bench 115 ---> raise to 130 (135 for 1 plate? hmm, it was not e-z at 115)
    Bent over row 115 ---> raise to 130 (135 for 1 plate again? tempting)
    Overhead press 75 ---> failed, stay 75
    SLDL 135 ---> raise to 155
    Curl 70 ---> raise to 80 (this one was TOUGH end of the workout, honestly was some body english to get final 12 reps)

    I've been doing calf raises usually twice a week, 3 sets of 12 reps. Getting my cardio done no problem. Doing OK on macros but not eating enough overall to really be gaining weight (up 10 pounds since cycle 1, none last couple cycles).

    I feel like I need to add an accessory for back work too, bent over row feels pretty easy and I'm leaving workouts feeling pretty taxed everywhere but the back. Probably assisted chinups? Do any of those other numbers look way out of whack?

    Thank you for this great thread and for sharing wisdom with everyone on the program.
    On light day try for 1 set of 10 with 1 plate for bench. If you get in all 10 reps without your butt coming off the mat you should be good for next cycle, and that additional volume should help boost the OHP.

    Honestly at this stage i would drop the curl and replace it with an assisted chinup, which believe it or not will help with the OHP.

    As an accessory(again for the OHP) i would go with a deep(bending knees as much as comfortable) push press using your light day or medium day bench weight. For 1-2 sets of around 2-3 reps, trying to lower as slowly as possible. Do this at the every of every workout. If you ever get to 4 reps add more weight, because that 4th rep just upped your volume/tonnage 25%, and thats a lot to try to recover from.

    Finally you need to be going up or down at least 1kg per cycle, so fix that. I dont care if you want to do a 2kg cut and maintain this cycle, or try for graduation numbers by gaining 2-3kg over 2 cycles and then doing a mini cut at the end.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    On light day try for 1 set of 10 with 1 plate for bench. If you get in all 10 reps without your butt coming off the mat you should be good for next cycle, and that additional volume should help boost the OHP.

    Honestly at this stage i would drop the curl and replace it with an assisted chinup, which believe it or not will help with the OHP.

    As an accessory(again for the OHP) i would go with a deep(bending knees as much as comfortable) push press using your light day or medium day bench weight. For 1-2 sets of around 2-3 reps, trying to lower as slowly as possible. Do this at the every of every workout. If you ever get to 4 reps add more weight, because that 4th rep just upped your volume/tonnage 25%, and thats a lot to try to recover from.

    Finally you need to be going up or down at least 1kg per cycle, so fix that. I dont care if you want to do a 2kg cut and maintain this cycle, or try for graduation numbers by gaining 2-3kg over 2 cycles and then doing a mini cut at the end.
    These are great suggestions, thanks for your time. I've never really done a deep bending push press like that, but I think it looks fun and should be a great exercise. Excited to be doing more chinups too.

    Thank you, nightanole.
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  17. #7997
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    Hi,

    Spent some time getting the 10rm sorted and had my first proper heavy session yesterday evening, all felt pretty good and - as mentioned in the posts - I felt that I had a couple of reps left in the bag so think I've got the right weights etc.

    However, by the time I got to the SLDL and to a lesser degree the curl before, I found I was struggling with my grip strength and my forearms were getting tired. Not too much of an issue right now but I can already see it being one in week 4/5 or cycle 2 etc. I'm pretty sure I'll fail on reps because of it rather than the weight itself.

    As a bit of background I broke my first 2 fingers on my right hand about a year ago and they are still not great.

    Do I carry on and let the program build the grip strength and forearms back up knowing I'll probably fail, (ie this is the programs systems check telling me i need to improve these before upping weights), should I convert to a different exercise for these 2 and / or should I look to work on my grip strength independently - but would that lead to increased fatigue when I lift short term?
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    Originally Posted by MadFrankie View Post
    Hi,

    Spent some time getting the 10rm sorted and had my first proper heavy session yesterday evening, all felt pretty good and - as mentioned in the posts - I felt that I had a couple of reps left in the bag so think I've got the right weights etc.

    However, by the time I got to the SLDL and to a lesser degree the curl before, I found I was struggling with my grip strength and my forearms were getting tired. Not too much of an issue right now but I can already see it being one in week 4/5 or cycle 2 etc. I'm pretty sure I'll fail on reps because of it rather than the weight itself.

    As a bit of background I broke my first 2 fingers on my right hand about a year ago and they are still not great.

    Do I carry on and let the program build the grip strength and forearms back up knowing I'll probably fail, (ie this is the programs systems check telling me i need to improve these before upping weights), should I convert to a different exercise for these 2 and / or should I look to work on my grip strength independently - but would that lead to increased fatigue when I lift short term?
    Endurance goes up much faster than strength, so you may be ok. As a backup, i would get some wrist "wraps", not straps. I too have had my wrists and fingers through the wringer over the years(index fingers now point in different directions). But the wraps should reduce fatigue without making it easier.

    I really dont think it matters if you get the $15 pair or the $50 competition pair. Just get the standard length 18" wrap.

    Here is the elcheapo set i bought, it comes with wraps and straps:
    https://www.amazon.com/Lifting-Weigh.../dp/B00MZN3AWU
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    Thanks again, I do have a similar pair I used a while back when I first hurt my fingers but wasn't sure if using them so early on in my new routine would lead to weakness / reliance later on...

    I'll give them a go :-)
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Endurance goes up much faster than strength, so you may be ok. As a backup, i would get some wrist "wraps", not straps. I too have had my wrists and fingers through the wringer over the years(index fingers now point in different directions). But the wraps should reduce fatigue without making it easier.

    I really dont think it matters if you get the $15 pair or the $50 competition pair. Just get the standard length 18" wrap.

    Here is the elcheapo set i bought, it comes with wraps and straps:
    https://www.amazon.com/Lifting-Weigh.../dp/B00MZN3AWU
    I need something to protect my fingers, which I think are starting to build up bone material in response to having these heavy weights press against them. Especially from like SLDL’s and BOR’s.

    Does the strap do the trick? Or should I also be getting lifting gloves?
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    I need something to protect my fingers, which I think are starting to build up bone material in response to having these heavy weights press against them. Especially from like SLDL’s and BOR’s.

    Does the strap do the trick? Or should I also be getting lifting gloves?
    Never heard of this before...

    But if you want some gloves, i recommend just getting the cheap "tactical" ones such as mechanix or shooting gloves.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJL8002/

    ive been using these since 2015 for; really cold days, massive chinup volume, trap bar because knurling is really aggressive.


    "wraps" just help ease your connective tissue.
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    Hey,
    A guy with an anterior labral tear in the right hip here!
    I can't perform regular squats without having pain (even if I stop before 90 degrees).
    Do you have any suggestions for different squat exercises that could work with this routine? (goblet/front squats, for example, don't trigger pain)

    Obviously, keeping the exercises balanced is important, so I assume a change to the deadlift exercise will also be needed (?) and it's of course acceptable.

    I would really appreciate few alternatives that I can try with low/none extra weight, and choose the combination that works for me
    Also, in the worst scenario in which I won't be able to do squat above a certain amount of weight, how bad will it be if I keep squatting on the same weight while increasing the weight of other exercises?
    Thank you!
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    Originally Posted by redking12 View Post
    Hey,
    A guy with an anterior labral tear in the right hip here!
    I can't perform regular squats without having pain (even if I stop before 90 degrees).
    Do you have any suggestions for different squat exercises that could work with this routine? (goblet/front squats, for example, don't trigger pain)

    Obviously, keeping the exercises balanced is important, so I assume a change to the deadlift exercise will also be needed (?) and it's of course acceptable.

    I would really appreciate few alternatives that I can try with low/none extra weight, and choose the combination that works for me
    Also, in the worst scenario in which I won't be able to do squat above a certain amount of weight, how bad will it be if I keep squatting on the same weight while increasing the weight of other exercises?
    Thank you!
    Leg press/extensions? I would definitely try high bar squats. And gently pushing at the pain. Gently. Try to gradually work into a full rom. That is assuming it's possible. I'm assuming it is, since matt kroc ripped his quad and was able to squat 1000 pounds on it 2 months later. Just might take a while. Push to discomfort, not pain. You might want to practice this with light weights, lest you get into the hole and have no option but pushing through and hurting yourself
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    Originally Posted by redking12 View Post
    Hey,
    A guy with an anterior labral tear in the right hip here!
    I can't perform regular squats without having pain (even if I stop before 90 degrees).
    Do you have any suggestions for different squat exercises that could work with this routine? (goblet/front squats, for example, don't trigger pain)

    Obviously, keeping the exercises balanced is important, so I assume a change to the deadlift exercise will also be needed (?) and it's of course acceptable.

    I would really appreciate few alternatives that I can try with low/none extra weight, and choose the combination that works for me
    Also, in the worst scenario in which I won't be able to do squat above a certain amount of weight, how bad will it be if I keep squatting on the same weight while increasing the weight of other exercises?
    Thank you!
    Zercher with a towel or thick hoodie. Try that since you can goblet just fine. With practice you can zercher 400lbs pain free, you just need to learn to rest it on you your forearms correctly.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Your row is starting to lack. It should be "around" your bench weight, and its not even your light day weight.

    OHP should be around 60% or more of your bench, and it literally is. You may also want to check out a few forms of the OHP grip. the rippetoe version has a lot of spring at the bottom, but destroys my wrists. I use the thumbs under false grip and end up with a lot of range.

    For OHP, look back a few posts on my push press recomendations.

    SLDL you are going for range, not weight, i would not go nutts on the weight you cant even deficit it yet. The goal is to get to top of the ankle line with a straight back.

    To help with the row, you could just add another row variant at the end of the work out for 1 set. Maybe an assisted chinup or an inverted row.
    Hi Nihgtanole.

    Thanks for the advice on BOR. I rechecked my 10 rep Max and figured out I miscalculated it earlier, I was comfortable with 130 lb so I started my Cycle 5 with 130 lb, My Bench was 145 lb in this cycle. pretty close I guess.

    First three weeks of this cycle went smoothly as well as the Heavy and Medium days of week 4. I had to travel to Europe for 4 days in week4 and I missed out the light day. Was back last Sunday, JEt lagged but completed good 10 hrs sleep before jumping in Week 5 Test Day this Monday. Test day was a disaster. here is what happened

    1. Squats 165 lb - Couldn't even do 5 reps in both working sets. ( in Week 3 I tried 185 lb 5 reps at the end of the workout and easily pulled it.)
    2. Bench 145 lb - unracked with a lot of effort and hardly got 2 reps in first work set, didn't even attempt for second with the same weight. REduced to my medium day weight and still just 8 Reps in a set,
    3. BOR 130 lb - This wasn't any different either, gave up in 5 reps in both work sets. was pulling it off pretty good for 11 reps on Week 4 heavy day at RPE of 8.5

    I was almost drained and disappointed by this time

    4. SLDL - 130 lb- Passed
    5. OHP - 85 lb couldn't get even 2 reps, reduced to medium day weight and still just 8 reps.
    6. Curls - 75 Disaster again, 0 reps in the work set.

    Overall it was a disaster, I don't know what happened, and have no clue what shall I do next. Attempted the Medium day yesterday and almost a similar pattern didn't get all 12 reps in any of the compound lift.

    I'm completely clueless. I'm unable to even get 8 reps so not sure if I cn even start the next cycle with same weights. Please advise.
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    Originally Posted by sonivx View Post
    Hi Nihgtanole.

    Thanks for the advice on BOR. I rechecked my 10 rep Max and figured out I miscalculated it earlier, I was comfortable with 130 lb so I started my Cycle 5 with 130 lb, My Bench was 145 lb in this cycle. pretty close I guess.

    First three weeks of this cycle went smoothly as well as the Heavy and Medium days of week 4. I had to travel to Europe for 4 days in week4 and I missed out the light day. Was back last Sunday, JEt lagged but completed good 10 hrs sleep before jumping in Week 5 Test Day this Monday. Test day was a disaster. here is what happened

    1. Squats 165 lb - Couldn't even do 5 reps in both working sets. ( in Week 3 I tried 185 lb 5 reps at the end of the workout and easily pulled it.)
    2. Bench 145 lb - unracked with a lot of effort and hardly got 2 reps in first work set, didn't even attempt for second with the same weight. REduced to my medium day weight and still just 8 Reps in a set,
    3. BOR 130 lb - This wasn't any different either, gave up in 5 reps in both work sets. was pulling it off pretty good for 11 reps on Week 4 heavy day at RPE of 8.5

    I was almost drained and disappointed by this time

    4. SLDL - 130 lb- Passed
    5. OHP - 85 lb couldn't get even 2 reps, reduced to medium day weight and still just 8 reps.
    6. Curls - 75 Disaster again, 0 reps in the work set.

    Overall it was a disaster, I don't know what happened, and have no clue what shall I do next. Attempted the Medium day yesterday and almost a similar pattern didn't get all 12 reps in any of the compound lift.

    I'm completely clueless. I'm unable to even get 8 reps so not sure if I cn even start the next cycle with same weights. Please advise.
    Take the rest of the week off. Use the same weights next cycle. as a modifier, add a 6th week to the cycle, and start at 7 reps instead of 8 reps (or 3 reps if you are on hte 4-8 rep novice pattern).

    id also up the carbs 50-100g a day for a while till your are back in the groove.
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    Pretty excited about this routine, looking to drop 25lbs as a short term goal and 50lbs as a long term goal. Want to do fierce 5 as it looks more "fun" but everything I have read says this is better for cutting. Went and did a test run this morning and here is what I will be starting with Monday. Does anything seem out of balance?

    Squat 160lbs
    Bench 145lbs
    Row 115lbs
    OHP 85lbs
    SLD130lbs
    BB curl 70lbs
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    Originally Posted by alburkdoll View Post
    Pretty excited about this routine, looking to drop 25lbs as a short term goal and 50lbs as a long term goal. Want to do fierce 5 as it looks more "fun" but everything I have read says this is better for cutting. Went and did a test run this morning and here is what I will be starting with Monday. Does anything seem out of balance?

    Squat 160lbs
    Bench 145lbs
    Row 115lbs
    OHP 85lbs
    SLD130lbs
    BB curl 70lbs
    Surprised you can do SLDL with 130lbs (most cant get much past the knees with a straight back). But the rest of your numbers look pretty good.

    Since you are looking to drop 50lbs, you may want to run the fat guy version of squats. Instead of progressing 10-20% a cycle, just add the weight lost to the bar. So you would start out at 160lbs, and by the time you drop the 50lbs your working weight is 210lbs.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Surprised you can do SLDL with 130lbs (most cant get much past the knees with a straight back). But the rest of your numbers look pretty good.

    Since you are looking to drop 50lbs, you may want to run the fat guy version of squats. Instead of progressing 10-20% a cycle, just add the weight lost to the bar. So you would start out at 160lbs, and by the time you drop the 50lbs your working weight is 210lbs.
    I will double check my form on the SLDL, I have no problem starting lower and making sure form is correct. I am a bigger guy, 6'3" and 281lbs (at about 35% BF) with about 10 years of on and off lifting and it isn't uncommon for my strength to come back fairly quick even on a caloric deficit.

    What is the thought behind adding lost weight to the bar instead of progressing on the same % increase as the rest of the lifts?
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    Originally Posted by alburkdoll View Post
    I will double check my form on the SLDL, I have no problem starting lower and making sure form is correct. I am a bigger guy, 6'3" and 281lbs (at about 35% BF) with about 10 years of on and off lifting and it isn't uncommon for my strength to come back fairly quick even on a caloric deficit.

    What is the thought behind adding lost weight to the bar instead of progressing on the same % increase as the rest of the lifts?
    With the fat folk, typically i see them start off at say 275lbs at 5.10, and squatting 95lbs. Then they only want to progress at 10% a cycle, so fast forward 9 months, they lost a massive 75-100lbs, but squat is only at 135-150lbs. Ideally 9 months in, they should be around 160-175lbs body weight, and squatting a min 225. They could have easily done that if they just put that 100lbs they lost on the bar, and did 1 10% bump at the end.

    You are free to do the standard progression rate, But id feel bad for you if in 6-9 months you are down to 240lbs, but are not squatting BMI 24 weight yet.
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