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  1. #7951
    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You can always adjust the rep range. I would not be adding sets as you do not need them. Allpro is already very high volume compared to most beginner programs.

    You could always just 2x allpro, and do 16-24 rep sets, and add 2 reps a week.
    Great, any thoughts on the weight I should start at? I decided to calculate 16 reps with my light day weight minus approx 10% and that shows significant weight lifted. Does this sound reasonable as I hope I don't fail too quickly 😄
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  2. #7952
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Great, any thoughts on the weight I should start at? I decided to calculate 16 reps with my light day weight minus approx 10% and that shows significant weight lifted. Does this sound reasonable as I hope I don't fail too quickly
    You calculate 20 reps. Heavy day should be around your previous light day working weight. Aka 20-25% weight reduction.
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  3. #7953
    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    Curious to know why it goes from 8-12 reps to 16-24 and not 12-20 over 5 weeks? I was thinking if it was 12-20 (5 weeks) then perhaps I could add a little more weight to the bar?
    Last edited by GenerationZero; 01-08-2020 at 02:40 PM.
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  4. #7954
    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    I was wondering why there is no vertical pull movement (lat pull, chin up, etc).
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  5. #7955
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Curious to know why it goes from 8-12 reps to 16-24 and not 12-20 over 5 weeks? I was thinking if it was 12-20 (5 weeks) then perhaps I could add a little more weight to the bar?
    Doesnt matter what your rep range is. If you want 12-20 go for it. Once you start going in above 15 reps its kinda hard to judge how many reps it would take to make it 10% harder. Its real easy to chart that within the 5-10 reps.

    You could even wiggle it around and add 2 reps for the first few weeks and 1 rep for the last 2 weeks. And start with 14 reps and end at 20 reps.
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  6. #7956
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    I was wondering why there is no vertical pull movement (lat pull, chin up, etc).
    Its a cookie cutter. 99% of people cant do 10 chinups, or have access to a assisted chinup machine or a lat pull down.

    I have plenty of people running the program with a assisted chinup for their first accessory.

    But the bent over row puts more meat on your and re enforces the back more than a chin/pull up.

    After you pass 2 test days you are free to add an accessory. The chinup is a very popular choice.
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  7. #7957
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    What is considered the intensity level for this training program? Light? Light-mod? Moderate? Mod-high? High? And how many minutes does it take to do per session? 45 min?
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  8. #7958
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrblancoblanco View Post
    What is considered the intensity level for this training program? Light? Light-mod? Moderate? Mod-high? High? And how many minutes does it take to do per session? 45 min?
    45minutes. You will be working around 65% of 1rm, always within 3 reps of failure, and by the last 2 weeks of the cycle you will be working at around RPE 9.5 for the second set of each exercise.
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  9. #7959
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Its a cookie cutter. 99% of people cant do 10 chinups, or have access to a assisted chinup machine or a lat pull down.

    I have plenty of people running the program with a assisted chinup for their first accessory.

    But the bent over row puts more meat on your and re enforces the back more than a chin/pull up.

    After you pass 2 test days you are free to add an accessory. The chinup is a very popular choice.
    Good answer. Maybe the program can be tweaked a little so that the first accessory lift is a vertical pull?
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  10. #7960
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    Good answer. Maybe the program can be tweaked a little so that the first accessory lift is a vertical pull?
    A better plan would be to drop the curl and replace it with a chinup(palms facing).
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  11. #7961
    Registered User Jointrufas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A better plan would be to drop the curl and replace it with a chinup(palms facing).
    Hi just started doing this routine, how would progression work if i dropped curls and replaced it with chinups?
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  12. #7962
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jointrufas View Post
    Hi just started doing this routine, how would progression work if i dropped curls and replaced it with chinups?
    The chinup would have to have a rep range at or above the row. So at worst you would need a set of bands that would allow you to do heavy medium light. If you dont, you would have to have "a" band that would allow you to do 10 reps with. Then you would have to rig up medium and light to use less reps, maybe 2 reps lower for medium and 4 reps lower for light. I dont think just 1 rep difference is enough to prevent too much fatigue build up and tendon inflammation.
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  13. #7963
    Registered User lopcherng's Avatar
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    Hi nightanole, just want to start off saying you're awesome for contributing and helping out so many people.

    I've been doing allpro for over a year now -- working out on and off different programs prior and not being consistent at the gym. I found I really like working out only 3 days a week and doing full body so I love all pros. I found the program awhile back and didn't read much up on it and just did what I felt was comfortable while trying to push myself. For example on heavy and medium days I'll try to do as many reps as I can on the 2nd set if I feel like I can do them. Also if I fail a rep(s) on heavy day, I tend to rest and then add another set to get in the reps for that week or more to 'make up' for the missed rep(s).

    My most recent lifts are:
    Squat: 225x10 (failed 11)
    Dumbbell Bench: 75x10 (failed 11)(I use dumbbells for bench because every time I use barbell I end up getting some type of shoulder injury or strain that doesn't go away unless I completely stop working out. I may not know how to bench properly, but I feel at this point I'm a lost cause without paid/proper coaching)
    Row: 155x11
    OHP: 95x10 (failed 11)
    SDL: 225x10 (failed 11)
    pullups, dumbbell curls, face pulls, leg raises as I feel necessary but getting 'a good workout' feel.

    I'm starting to feel like I'm really struggling, getting noticeably sore and achy where I haven't been before, reaching a plateau, or not being able to make progress as much as I used to. Light days used to feel easy and I can do it in my sleep, but now my light days feel pretty heavy. Possibly my own fault because I haven't been following the program exactly and doing extra on heavy and medium days.

    I'm reading through these threads now since I'm starting to struggle and just found out I'm supposed to leave some in the tank the first 3 weeks 8-10. I strayed away from this because I felt lazy or I'm not doing enough if I didn't give it my all. Also I found it more fun and exciting to do as much as I can on certain days.

    I really want to stay on the all pro program because I like the lifts, full body, and 3 days a week workout. My current goals are just to get as strong as I can with my current diet (take out twice a day and protein shakes).

    Should I stick with all pro simple routine rep scheme more strictly and grind it out? I think for the next one or two workouts I may go extra light to deload since my back and knee have been aching. I read that you also recommend a 3x4-8 rep scheme for the first 3 exercises- this sounds interesting too- should I switch to this? I also just found out about your auto regulated routine and it sounds similar to what I've been doing unknowingly- should I switch to this? What do you recommend? Thanks.
    Last edited by lopcherng; 01-09-2020 at 06:19 PM.
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  14. #7964
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    Hi nightanole, just want to start off saying you're awesome for contributing and helping out so many people.

    I've been doing allpro for over a year now -- working out on and off different programs prior and not being consistent at the gym. I found I really like working out only 3 days a week and doing full body so I love all pros. I found the program awhile back and didn't read much up on it and just did what I felt was comfortable while trying to push myself. For example on heavy and medium days I'll try to do as many reps as I can on the 2nd set if I feel like I can do them. Also if I fail a rep(s) on heavy day, I tend to rest and then add another set to get in the reps for that week or more to 'make up' for the missed rep(s).

    My most recent lifts are:
    Squat: 225x10 (failed 11)
    Dumbbell Bench: 75x10 (failed 11)(I use dumbbells for bench because every time I use barbell I end up getting some type of shoulder injury or strain that doesn't go away unless I completely stop working out. I may not know how to bench properly, but I feel at this point I'm a lost cause without paid/proper coaching)
    Row: 155x11
    OHP: 95x10 (failed 11)
    SDL: 225x10 (failed 11)
    pullups, dumbbell curls, face pulls, leg raises as I feel necessary but getting 'a good workout' feel.

    I'm starting to feel like I'm really struggling, getting noticeably sore and achy where I haven't been before, reaching a plateau, or not being able to make progress as much as I used to. Light days used to feel easy and I can do it in my sleep, but now my light days feel pretty heavy. Possibly my own fault because I haven't been following the program exactly and doing extra on heavy and medium days.

    I'm reading through these threads now since I'm starting to struggle and just found out I'm supposed to leave some in the tank the first 3 weeks 8-10. I strayed away from this because I felt lazy or I'm not doing enough if I didn't give it my all. Also I found it more fun and exciting to do as much as I can on certain days.

    I really want to stay on the all pro program because I like the lifts, full body, and 3 days a week workout. My current goals are just to get as strong as I can with my current diet (take out twice a day and protein shakes).

    Should I stick with all pro simple routine rep scheme more strictly and grind it out? I think for the next one or two workouts I may go extra light to deload since my back and knee have been aching. I read that you also recommend a 3x4-8 rep scheme for the first 3 exercises- this sounds interesting too- should I switch to this? I also just found out about your auto regulated routine and it sounds similar to what I've been doing unknowingly- should I switch to this? What do you recommend? Thanks.
    If that DB bench is 75 pounds per dumb bell, you have pretty much maxed out the effective range of allpro, and will need to graduate to a more complicated pattern such as greyskull LP.


    However you are more than welcome to try 2 other patterns to keep allpro going.

    The first one is allpro auto regulated:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

    The second is converting up to the first 3 lifts to 10x3. This is sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. You stop when you get a sloooooow rep with good form. If you get in all 10 sets you bump the weight 5-10% for next session (enough to knock you back down to 5-6 sets). You would start this pattern using your allpro heavy day weight.


    But unfortunately at your strength levels the days of straight weight with fixed reps and fixed sets, over and over again, are over
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  15. #7965
    Registered User lopcherng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If that DB bench is 75 pounds per dumb bell, you have pretty much maxed out the effective range of allpro, and will need to graduate to a more complicated pattern such as greyskull LP.


    However you are more than welcome to try 2 other patterns to keep allpro going.

    The first one is allpro auto regulated:
    [link removed]

    The second is converting up to the first 3 lifts to 10x3. This is sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. You stop when you get a sloooooow rep with good form. If you get in all 10 sets you bump the weight 5-10% for next session (enough to knock you back down to 5-6 sets). You would start this pattern using your allpro heavy day weight.


    But unfortunately at your strength levels the days of straight weight with fixed reps and fixed sets, over and over again, are over
    Yes it's 75lbs per dumb bell. Greyskulls LP PHRAKS looks like a pretty attractive program to me. When I did some research I came across 5/3/1 beginner, which looks good to me since it's also a 3 day full body program but I read it can become too taxing with non beginner weights - I didn't really like the other variants because they're not 3 day. It'll be hard for me to leave allpro!

    Regarding all pro auto regulated - can I do this still M/W/F or a every other day workout with 2 days rest? Should the 2 working weight sets be followed strictly - no adding 3rd or 4th sets to get the rep count per workout up? Is there a minimum number of reps per 2 sets where the workout may be ineffective and I should lower the weight- for example if I increased the weight 10% and I can only do 7 reps first set and 4 reps second set -- or should I just keep pushing/grinding next workout?

    Wow 10 sets of 3, this sounds intense. So on this program, medium and light day for all lifts are still 10% less each per workout? Weight increase for the other lifts still follow the old progression scheme?

    How about the pattern of first 3 lifts, 3x4-8? Is this worth a shot? I think my favored programs I'd like to try are in order of: first 3 lifts, 3x4-8; then auto regulated; then first 3 lifts 10x3; then maybe 5/3/1 beginner and then greyskull phraks.
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  16. #7966
    Registered User mpizzle421's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    I've been following this program for 3 cycles now. I'm at 25% body fat. Holidays were unkind in terms of weight loss but I did keep lifting at least

    Bench - 150 - 165 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL, cycle 3 FAIL). I can get my first set of 12 up, I can't get the second set. I did slightly better this time.
    Row (using Hex bar as recommended) - 85 - 110 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL, cycle 3 PASS). I'll be moving up to 110 next week.
    OHP - 85 - 85 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL + deload, cycle 3 FAIL). I started with 85. I progressed after cycle 1 (but with some problems with form) so I reset back to 85 realizing I shouldn't have bumped up the weight. Like my bench I got 12 my first set, but could only get 10 my second.
    SLDL - 155 - 185 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 PASS but opted not to increase weight due to some back issues, cycle 3 PASS and will be bumping up from 170 to 185).
    Curl - 75 - 85 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 tennis elbow started acting up so I reset back down to 75, cycle 3 PASS)
    Calf - 200 - 260 (PASS, PASS, PASS)

    A few things.

    1. For bench and overhead press - I feel that I'm struggling on the second set. Is this a good time to consider your modified version that takes me from 4/4/4 to 8/8/8 or just reset back to 2x8 and try it again next cycle?
    2. I quit doing squat during cycle 2 due to continued knee pain. I gave it a week or 2 and tried doing leg press. Fine for a few weeks and the knee pain started again. I'm not sure what to do. I'm reasonably sure it's patellar tendonitis. We had talked box squats which also triggered the pain. However, I tried it before giving myself time to rest it. My current thinking is to give myself another week. I also know that foam rolling + stretching has helped but I haven't been as consistent as I would like to be.

    Any suggestions?
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  17. #7967
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    Yes it's 75lbs per dumb bell. Greyskulls LP PHRAKS looks like a pretty attractive program to me. When I did some research I came across 5/3/1 beginner, which looks good to me since it's also a 3 day full body program but I read it can become too taxing with non beginner weights - I didn't really like the other variants because they're not 3 day. It'll be hard for me to leave allpro!

    Regarding all pro auto regulated - can I do this still M/W/F or a every other day workout with 2 days rest? Should the 2 working weight sets be followed strictly - no adding 3rd or 4th sets to get the rep count per workout up? Is there a minimum number of reps per 2 sets where the workout may be ineffective and I should lower the weight- for example if I increased the weight 10% and I can only do 7 reps first set and 4 reps second set -- or should I just keep pushing/grinding next workout?

    Wow 10 sets of 3, this sounds intense. So on this program, medium and light day for all lifts are still 10% less each per workout? Weight increase for the other lifts still follow the old progression scheme?

    How about the pattern of first 3 lifts, 3x4-8? Is this worth a shot? I think my favored programs I'd like to try are in order of: first 3 lifts, 3x4-8; then auto regulated; then first 3 lifts 10x3; then maybe 5/3/1 beginner and then greyskull phraks.
    Lets see here...

    At your strength level 3x full body gets pretty bad as an intermediate. You may need around 6 hours of gym time per week for optimal growth. And alot of that time is with submaximal weight since you can tax your muscles much more than a n00b. The joke is if you put an advanced lifter on a 5x5 beginner routine he will be in the hospital in about 2-3 week even with zero progression. If you are going the grayskull route you do not want phraks, it sucks. He was a mma guy who did tons of kalastetics and used greyskull as a supliment, and never squatted 225 in his life. The better "beginer" version is /fit variant. else there are tons of variants, but you want one with a good amount of accessory work, since as i said you are going to need more than 45min 3x a week.


    auto regulated is all heavy, up to 7 sessions every 2 weeks, (every 48 hours). You do not want to add more sets, but again you can add more single joint accessories, or gpp work such as farmer carries. There is no "bad rep range", since you will always be working within 2 reps till failure, so even 4 reps would promote growth.

    3 sets of 4-8 reps is allpro "novice" but it does not allow you to use more weight. It just allows you to run the program for a few more cycles if you start getting gassed vs hitting muscular failure. People learn real quick that you are not working at your 6 rep max on novice and your 10 rep max on regular.

    The 10x3 pattern has no heavy medium light, its fixed weight. You will find, like auto regulated, reps will drop during the week, and the after the 72 hour rest weekend the reps will pick back up even higher.

    So 3x4-8 could work for 2-3 cycles
    auto regulated for up to a year. Maybe lifetime with the right accessories and if your goals are not inhuman.
    greyskull is good for "the first 3 years of lifting" so greyskull will take you from a 4 plate beginner deadlift to a 5 plate, as an example.
    5/3/1 beginner is not going to be effective for you. But 5/3/1 BBB, with the BBB lift on odd days (so 5/3/1 bench and BBB squat on the same day as an example) could be ran for life, and would be semi full body.
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  18. #7968
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mpizzle421 View Post
    Hi there,

    I've been following this program for 3 cycles now. I'm at 25% body fat. Holidays were unkind in terms of weight loss but I did keep lifting at least

    Bench - 150 - 165 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL, cycle 3 FAIL). I can get my first set of 12 up, I can't get the second set. I did slightly better this time.
    Row (using Hex bar as recommended) - 85 - 110 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL, cycle 3 PASS). I'll be moving up to 110 next week.
    OHP - 85 - 85 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 FAIL + deload, cycle 3 FAIL). I started with 85. I progressed after cycle 1 (but with some problems with form) so I reset back to 85 realizing I shouldn't have bumped up the weight. Like my bench I got 12 my first set, but could only get 10 my second.
    SLDL - 155 - 185 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 PASS but opted not to increase weight due to some back issues, cycle 3 PASS and will be bumping up from 170 to 185).
    Curl - 75 - 85 (cycle 1 PASS, cycle 2 tennis elbow started acting up so I reset back down to 75, cycle 3 PASS)
    Calf - 200 - 260 (PASS, PASS, PASS)

    A few things.

    1. For bench and overhead press - I feel that I'm struggling on the second set. Is this a good time to consider your modified version that takes me from 4/4/4 to 8/8/8 or just reset back to 2x8 and try it again next cycle?
    2. I quit doing squat during cycle 2 due to continued knee pain. I gave it a week or 2 and tried doing leg press. Fine for a few weeks and the knee pain started again. I'm not sure what to do. I'm reasonably sure it's patellar tendonitis. We had talked box squats which also triggered the pain. However, I tried it before giving myself time to rest it. My current thinking is to give myself another week. I also know that foam rolling + stretching has helped but I haven't been as consistent as I would like to be.

    Any suggestions?
    Yes this is a great time to switch bench to 3x4-8 if you are getting gassed at the second set. But as with the other guy, this will only help for a few more cycles before you need to start looking into more complicated patterns. OHP is always 2x8-12, its just too hard to add volume without causing a stall, but progressing on bench and coasting on OHP still results in more volume so more growth.

    Dont know about the knee thing, but foam rolling and stretching never seems to work. Generally its "heal in motion" using little to no weight that mimics the movement.
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    Registered User lopcherng's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, for auto regulated are all exercises done with amrap for 2 sets to reach 24 reps or just first 3 exercises?
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    Just to be clear, for auto regulated are all exercises done with amrap for 2 sets to reach 24 reps or just first 3 exercises?
    All exercises. So you may "pass" squats with a 14/10 set combo, and then maybe next session pass OHP.
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  21. #7971
    Registered User lopcherng's Avatar
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    I've also been having a strain for a couple weeks or what feels like a sore ligament/tendon (I don't know anatomy) behind my left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area - and when I stretch my hamstrings it feels tighter than before so it's harder to get a good stretch. I read in prior posts you suggest to work through it or go through the motion or you'll lose strength or it won't really heal properly? --- should I use lighter weight or do less reps on SDL or maybe skip entirely for a few sessions or weeks?

    My back feels better after a .60 deload session and weekend rest -- I think I had aggravated both the back and behind left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area, but the leg still feels sore/strained/tight. I believe I tried to go too low on the SDL and bringing it back up required more back and strain.
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  22. #7972
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    I've also been having a strain for a couple weeks or what feels like a sore ligament/tendon (I don't know anatomy) behind my left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area - and when I stretch my hamstrings it feels tighter than before so it's harder to get a good stretch. I read in prior posts you suggest to work through it or go through the motion or you'll lose strength or it won't really heal properly? --- should I use lighter weight or do less reps on SDL or maybe skip entirely for a few sessions or weeks?

    My back feels better after a .60 deload session and weekend rest -- I think I had aggravated both the back and behind left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area, but the leg still feels sore/strained/tight. I believe I tried to go too low on the SDL and bringing it back up required more back and strain.
    Behind the knee pain its normally caused by doing squats and SLDL with locked knees instead of straight legs. With locked knees and a heavy weight, the knees can start bending "the other way" and put alot of pressure on that connective tissue.

    Connective tissue responds to weight drops. So i would keep the reps and frequency the same, but drop the weight for the squat and SLDL 50% for 2 weeks and see if the pain goes away.

    And yes you want to "heal in motion" and not just lay off of an injured body part.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    I've also been having a strain for a couple weeks or what feels like a sore ligament/tendon (I don't know anatomy) behind my left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area - and when I stretch my hamstrings it feels tighter than before so it's harder to get a good stretch. I read in prior posts you suggest to work through it or go through the motion or you'll lose strength or it won't really heal properly? --- should I use lighter weight or do less reps on SDL or maybe skip entirely for a few sessions or weeks?

    My back feels better after a .60 deload session and weekend rest -- I think I had aggravated both the back and behind left knee/upper calf/lower hamstring area, but the leg still feels sore/strained/tight. I believe I tried to go too low on the SDL and bringing it back up required more back and strain.
    Behind the knee pain its normally caused by doing squats and SLDL with locked knees instead of straight legs. With locked knees and a heavy weight, the knees can start bending "the other way" and put alot of pressure on that connective tissue.

    Connective tissue responds to weight drops. So i would keep the reps and frequency the same, but drop the weight for the squat and SLDL 50% for 2 weeks and see if the pain goes away.

    And yes you want to "heal in motion" and not just lay off of an injured body part.
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  24. #7974
    Registered User lopcherng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Behind the knee pain its normally caused by doing squats and SLDL with locked knees instead of straight legs. With locked knees and a heavy weight, the knees can start bending "the other way" and put alot of pressure on that connective tissue.

    Connective tissue responds to weight drops. So i would keep the reps and frequency the same, but drop the weight for the squat and SLDL 50% for 2 weeks and see if the pain goes away.

    And yes you want to "heal in motion" and not just lay off of an injured body part.
    Regarding squats, do you mean locked knees as in lock out? I don't usually lock out all the way, I keep a very slight bend in knees at the top and squeeze glutes. I do 'lock' at the knees going down -- I break at the hips first, bend at the knees until I feel my knees are in a good position and doesn't pass toes, then I lock knees and lower hips until I hit depth. -- I think I watched a video with Max Aita and Mark Bell to do it this way.

    Regarding SDL, to start I sort of conventional deadlift the weight up, then I try to bend knees slightly and I 'lock' in position and lower weight - with heavier weight I think my knees are bent more than I want and more than with light/warmup weight, hips move back on the lift but not down, I try to lower the weight until I feel a stretch, but sometimes I get ambitious and lower too much (and I'll start to feel back not want to be straight) - then I try to drive through heels to come up and push hips forward hard and squeeze everything, I think I do tend to lock out knees here to complete the motion/lift, then on the next rep I'll bend knees slightly to start over again. Aren't you supposed to squeeze everything at the top of SDL? / deadlift?

    Am I doing something wrong? Or can do something better?
    Last edited by lopcherng; 01-14-2020 at 12:46 PM.
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  25. #7975
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lopcherng View Post
    Regarding squats, do you mean locked knees as in lock out? I don't usually lock out all the way, I keep a very slight bend in knees at the top and squeeze glutes. I do 'lock' at the knees going down -- I break at the hips first, bend at the knees until I feel my knees are in a good position and doesn't pass toes, then I lock knees and lower hips until I hit depth. -- I think I watched a video with Max Aita and Mark Bell to do it this way.

    Regarding SDL, to start I sort of conventional deadlift the weight up, then I try to bend knees slightly and I 'lock' in position and lower weight - with heavier weight I think my knees are bent more than I want and more than with light/warmup weight, hips move back on the lift but not down, I try to lower the weight until I feel a stretch, but sometimes I get ambitious and lower too much (and I'll start to feel back not want to be straight) - then I try to drive through heels to come up and push hips forward hard and squeeze glutes, I think I do tend to lock out knees here to complete the motion/lift, then on the next rep I'll bend knees slightly to start over again.

    Am I doing something wrong? Or can do something better?
    Sounds like you are doing everything right. The only behind the knee pain users seem to lock the knee and hyperextend it at lockout on the squat and sldl, you are not doing that. So i would try a 2 week 50% deload and see if the pain goes away.
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  26. #7976
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yes this is a great time to switch bench to 3x4-8 if you are getting gassed at the second set. But as with the other guy, this will only help for a few more cycles before you need to start looking into more complicated patterns. OHP is always 2x8-12, its just too hard to add volume without causing a stall, but progressing on bench and coasting on OHP still results in more volume so more growth.

    Dont know about the knee thing, but foam rolling and stretching never seems to work. Generally its "heal in motion" using little to no weight that mimics the movement.
    Plenty of injury talk here over the last few posts... let me contribute

    But first - a success.

    I did 3x8 today @ 165lbs (where I've failed twice on 2x12 by a rep or 2 the last set). I was excited about that. Maybe it's psychological or something. I asked for a spotter on my 3rd. set from a gym-acquaintance and that set was easier than my second. Not to say the last rep of 8 could have been 9 but it didn't feel like a grinder either.

    Now my fail.

    After making my last post I did medium day as expected. I finished ok. I went home and suddenly felt a tweak in my lower back. Went away, came back, went away. I went to my Chiropractor (who I happen to really trust. Not only has been helpful but also a fairly serious weight lifter.).

    There were 3 pretty clear suspects for me. Row, OHP, SLDL. I saw it coming too. I started using a weight lifting belt on OHP and SLDL because of some stiffness I would feel in my lower back. I didn't wear it that day (medium day) and I was reasonably sure I did it with OHP. To push the bar over my spine and bring it down to my chest I'm forced to arch my back (else you hit yourself on the head). While I do try to flex my abs to protect myself my core is weak. Like... 30 second plank is difficult for me weak. I've also got challenged posture (desk job for 20 years, too much emphasis on my chest, etc.).

    Chiro suggested dumbbell presses which I chose to do seated.

    1. I picked 45lbs (with confidence I wouldn't struggle)
    2. I do the movement as I was taught by a trainer. I tilt the bench back one notch so it's not straight up and down. I don't have my palms completely neutral but facing in slightly. I don't feel like I can get the same depth as I do with a barbell but I went down farther than I would of before.

    I did 3 x 45 in each hand for 8 reps each (I missed your statement on that last week). I struggled with 85 on the barbell but I feel that it got more difficult when trying to do a standing press over sitting. Somehow I can do 3x8 with 5 more lbs on dumbbell? I'm confident I could do 50s (and certainly have in my past) so I feel like something isn't adding up.

    The Chiro suggested that I may have been pressing slightly forward to compensate (which should have bothered my shoulders but didn't).

    Happy New Year by the way!!
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    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Doesnt matter what your rep range is. If you want 12-20 go for it. Once you start going in above 15 reps its kinda hard to judge how many reps it would take to make it 10% harder. Its real easy to chart that within the 5-10 reps.

    You could even wiggle it around and add 2 reps for the first few weeks and 1 rep for the last 2 weeks. And start with 14 reps and end at 20 reps.
    Started 14 reps this week so next week will be 16 then 18 reps, 19 then 20 if I understood you correctly.

    1. I assume this would also build muscle as according to my calculations I'm lifting a lot more weight through volume?

    2. I know you said after 15 reps is difficult to analyse if your getting 10% stronger or not so is it advisable to do this many reps for a few cycles then back to 8-12?

    Finally if I redid this cycle in 4 weeks would it indicate I started too heavy? I thought I started light on heavy day but getting to 14 reps I was close to failure.
    Last edited by GenerationZero; 01-15-2020 at 02:50 PM.
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    Originally Posted by SmackBang77 View Post
    Question :

    Can the calf raises be done while seated ? What about with a barbell from the squat rack ?
    when
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Started 14 reps this week so next week will be 16 then 18 reps, 19 then 20 if I understood you correctly.

    1. I assume this would also build muscle as according to my calculations I'm lifting a lot more weight through volume?

    2. I know you said after 15 reps is difficult to analyse if your getting 10% stronger or not so is it advisable to do this many reps for a few cycles then back to 8-12?

    Finally if I redid this cycle in 4 weeks would it indicate I started too heavy? I thought I started light on heavy day but getting to 14 reps I was close to failure.
    Every cycle should be started with 2 reps in the bank on heavy day on the second set. If you are just barely getting them, then you are working too close to failure and will get buried in fatigue.

    Yes you have the 14-20 pattern understood.

    After 5-10 reps its hard to judge how many reps you have left in the tank, and how many reps you need to add to make the exercise 10% harder. As an example if you were doing 50 rep squats, and increased it to 75 reps, you did not increase your calculated 1 rep max 10%, it didnt even increase 5%.

    So:
    3-10 rep range its about 4 reps to increase 1rm 10%
    11- 20 it could be around 6-7 reps
    By 25 reps its an easy 10 reps or more
    by 50 reps you may have to double your reps

    But that also works in reverse, so with a much higher rep range you can increase cycle to cycle say 5-7.5% calculated 1rm without breaking the allpro pattern, because the rep drop does not create as deep of a deload.
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    Registered User Tomatta's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If that DB bench is 75 pounds per dumb bell, you have pretty much maxed out the effective range of allpro, and will need to graduate to a more complicated pattern such as greyskull LP.

    What are the ranges where you would consider quitting Allpro? I've been running it for 7 months now, and I'm stalling now mainly on the bench and OHP.

    My lifts for reference:
    Bench: 65KG / 143lbs
    OHP: 40KG / 88lbs
    Rows: 70KG / 154lbs
    Deadlift: 80KG / 176lbs
    Dumbbell Curl: 15KG / 33lbs

    I'm 5'8 175lbs if it matters
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