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  1. #7921
    Registered User Xooley's Avatar
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    hey there

    First off, thanks a lot for the guide. I've started going to the gym like 2 years ago but still consider myself a beginner since I never really took it very seriously.

    So 2 days ago I started this routine, today would be the second day but my muscles still feel a bit sore. Should I just move todays training to tomorrow and go tomorrow with 100% weight again instead 90%, and then start next weeks cycle fresh at 100% with 9 reps on Tuesday?

    Thanks

    In the original post it says do all sets at 8 - 12 reps progressing through the weeks, but in the Excel file it says calf raises 12 - 16 reps. How many reps is it for calf raises now?

    I can't schedule my trainings at fixed days, lets say I workout Tuesday, Friday and Sunday. Is it problematic that the 2 day break is not between the new cycle from Sunday to Tuesday?
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  2. #7922
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xooley View Post
    hey there

    First off, thanks a lot for the guide. I've started going to the gym like 2 years ago but still consider myself a beginner since I never really took it very seriously.

    So 2 days ago I started this routine, today would be the second day but my muscles still feel a bit sore. Should I just move todays training to tomorrow and go tomorrow with 100% weight again instead 90%, and then start next weeks cycle fresh at 100% with 9 reps on Tuesday?

    Thanks

    In the original post it says do all sets at 8 - 12 reps progressing through the weeks, but in the Excel file it says calf raises 12 - 16 reps. How many reps is it for calf raises now?

    I can't schedule my trainings at fixed days, lets say I workout Tuesday, Friday and Sunday. Is it problematic that the 2 day break is not between the new cycle from Sunday to Tuesday?
    Dont skip days because you are sore, that will make you more sore believe it or not.

    Some exercises do better with higher reps, such as calf raises. You could even go 2x allpro and start with 16 reps and add 2 reps a week to get to 24 total, i got one guy doing it with curls.

    As for non fixed days, the only hard rule is no lifting for the 72 hour before a heavy. So you could do medium and then the next day do light. Or you are really cramped you could just do 2 heavies for the week, as long as they are at least 72 hours apart.

    And a week is a human construct. Many of us do Sunday as the heavy, so we survive the work week. So if you did friday heavy, sunday medium, and tuesday light, you still have 72 hours before the next heavy.
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  3. #7923
    Registered User Xooley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Dont skip days because you are sore, that will make you more sore believe it or not.

    Some exercises do better with higher reps, such as calf raises. You could even go 2x allpro and start with 16 reps and add 2 reps a week to get to 24 total, i got one guy doing it with curls.

    As for non fixed days, the only hard rule is no lifting for the 72 hour before a heavy. So you could do medium and then the next day do light. Or you are really cramped you could just do 2 heavies for the week, as long as they are at least 72 hours apart.

    And a week is a human construct. Many of us do Sunday as the heavy, so we survive the work week. So if you did friday heavy, sunday medium, and tuesday light, you still have 72 hours before the next heavy.
    Thanks for the fast reply, really appreciated. Looks like I'm going to hit the gym today.
    Makes sense, I will have to do some planning.

    Is it bad if I do just 2 heavies for several weeks compared to 3 workouts (heavy, medium, light) a week? I have quite the stressful schedule, and often I will only be able to hit the gym twice a week.

    Also, let's say I workout Sunday (heavy), Monday and Wednesday. Should I do Monday medium and Wednesday light - or Monday light and Wednesday medium, since I just hit the heavy one day prior?
    Last edited by Xooley; 12-13-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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  4. #7924
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xooley View Post
    Thanks for the fast reply, really appreciated. Looks like I'm going to hit the gym today.
    Makes sense, I will have to do some planning.

    Is it bad if I do just 2 heavies for several weeks compared to 3 workouts (heavy, medium, light) a week? I have quite the stressful schedule, and often I will only be able to hit the gym twice a week.

    Also, let's say I workout Sunday (heavy), Monday and Wednesday. Should I do Monday medium and Wednesday light - or Monday light and Wednesday medium, since I just hit the heavy one day prior?
    If you do 2 heavies for an extended period, you should add a set to the bench/row/squat to make up for the lost volume. "test day" will still be 2 sets.

    The pattern is always heavy medium light. Heavy wears you out to the point you are not recovered for medium, this makes medium as effective as heavy(and requires more effort), light day is a mini deload for your connective tissue since allpro does not have a deload protocol.
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  5. #7925
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    Hey night I just thought I’d check in. See if you noticed anything wrong with my numbers or Weights/method/program implementation.

    The numbers are probably lower than a lot of other peoples because I had some injuries at the beginning of the year (knee, hip, ankle...shoulders). I was even in a wheelchair briefly.

    I started working out a few months ago, bench pressing 7 1/2 pound dumbbell on each side.

    But I’m loving the gains and the program.

    So, this Fall/winter, it’s been:
    I worked out about five weeks.
    Then a one-month de-load.
    Stated back in earnest a few weeks ago.

    Also, most of my weights have gone up about 5 pounds in the past week. I’m making progress and love it. I felt GREAT this morning. Firmer muscles, more energy.
    This all is amazing and really good for me.

    I do self regulated.
    I work out 2-3x/week but adjust my weights accordingly. (I know about heavy-heavy, etc)

    Today was my “Heavy” day.

    Poundage listed below is amount for each dumbbell. Ie, squat is one 32.5# dumbbell, Bench is one 35# dumbbell in each hand.

    I think every dumbbell today was 5# higher than a week ago.
    All work sets were 12 reps today.
    I imagine I’ll be going up another 5 pounds in the next week or two.

    Warm up + 2 working sets:
    Goblet Squat 32.5
    Bench 35
    BOR 30

    2 working sets:
    Military Press 30
    SLDL 35

    1-2 sets:
    Pull-ups using Assist Machine. fwiw: Fifth lever from the bottom

    1 set:
    Face pulls (rope) 22#
    Hammers 15

    1-2 sets:
    Calfs. Body weight weight (I weigh 242 #’s)

    1. I use dumbbells because I think they promote independence and maybe the assist muscles get challenged in a more natural way?, And I also think I can move in the more natural motion?

    Is it better to use barbells/why?

    2. Face-pulls:
    I was using dumbbells using bent-over stance to do face pulls, but I think that was giving me some elbow tendinitis? I switched to using a cable with a little rope attached to the pulley and pulling that towards my face, standing up. It seems to be working great is that fine?

    3. FWIW: I’m not looking to change from the goblet squats. Because I’ve had an injury or maybe two doing a regular barbell squat. And don’t wanna go back to that at this time.

    4. I do pull ups instead of chin-ups only because there does not seem to be a comfortable way to do chin-ups on the assist machine — The bar is not in the proper position for me to grip on that machine. and I’m too overweight to do chin-ups without assistance. Is that fine or do you have Any thoughts ? (I don’t want to do band-assisted for... reasons)

    5 Are any of my exercises, amounts or ratios weird or wrong in any way?

    Thx
    Last edited by 27MinuteMiracle; 12-14-2019 at 09:09 PM.
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  6. #7926
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    Hey night I just thought I’d check in. See if you noticed anything wrong with my numbers or Weights/method/program implementation.

    1. I use dumbbells because I think they promote independence and maybe the assist muscles get challenged in a more natural way?, And I also think I can move in the more natural motion?

    Is it better to use barbells/why?

    2. Face-pulls:
    I was using dumbbells using bent-over stance to do face pulls, but I think that was giving me some elbow tendinitis? I switched to using a cable with a little rope attached to the pulley and pulling that towards my face, standing up. It seems to be working great is that fine?

    3. FWIW: I’m not looking to change from the goblet squats. Because I’ve had an injury or maybe two doing a regular barbell squat. And don’t wanna go back to that at this time.

    4. I do pull ups instead of chin-ups only because there does not seem to be a comfortable way to do chin-ups on the assist machine — The bar is not in the proper position for me to grip on that machine. and I’m too overweight to do chin-ups without assistance. Is that fine or do you have Any thoughts ? (I don’t want to do band-assisted for... reasons)

    5 Are any of my exercises, amounts or ratios weird or wrong in any way?

    Thx
    1) You will progress slower with dumb bells vs a barbell, and there is greater chance of an imbalance occurring over time, since the weaker arm could be going at a slower pace at a weak point in the lift, even if it "catches up" at lock out, and you could be moving the dumb bell closer to the body at again the weak point of the lift. I dont think its a problem now, but i would not be usng 55-65lb dumb bells.

    2) at these weights you dont have to be doing shoulder prehab, but you can if your doc says do it for rehab. Face pulls etc are to help with micro muscle imbalances from benching well above body weight. If you are getting tendinitous, then its due to too much over hand pulling. You are doing bent over rows and assisted pullups, odds are both with the same grip. I would start chinuping (palms twards you) and maybe even hammer grip rowing till you know you are 100%. Then you can start balancing out the palm positions.

    3) I would start practicing some zercher squats as a long term goal if you do not want to back to back squats. It will be much easier vs goblet when things get heavy. And if you practice now, you will have the technique down and wont be doing odd things like resting 100lbs on just one bone of forearm instead of both, and not using the barbell as a wedge to separate your elbow because you thing it will roll away.

    4) If you can not find a way to pull up with your palms towards each other or towards your face, then you much reverse the grip of the row so that you are rowing palms up. But one pull needs to be palms down, and one pull needs to be palms up, or you will start getting tennis elbow etc.

    5) There is no bad balances/exercises, only bad balances for "you". So other than your pulling i see no other adjustments needed. I dont know how over weight you are, or where you want to be at, however the folks that want to lose say 75lbs+ i normally put them on a different progression scheme for squats. I just tell them to start with the 45lb bar, and any weight lost you just add to the bar. So if you are say 275lbs, you start with the 45lb bar, and 6-12 months later you are 175lbs, and squatting 145lbs, you might have even been able to progress a bit faster and be squatting 200lbs by then, which is graduation numbers
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  7. #7927
    Registered User 27MinuteMiracle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    1) You will progress slower with dumb bells vs a barbell, and there is greater chance of an imbalance occurring over time, since the weaker arm could be going at a slower pace at a weak point in the lift, even if it "catches up" at lock out, and you could be moving the dumb bell closer to the body at again the weak point of the lift. I dont think its a problem now, but i would not be usng 55-65lb dumb bells.

    2) at these weights you dont have to be doing shoulder prehab, but you can if your doc says do it for rehab. Face pulls etc are to help with micro muscle imbalances from benching well above body weight. If you are getting tendinitous, then its due to too much over hand pulling. You are doing bent over rows and assisted pullups, odds are both with the same grip. I would start chinuping (palms twards you) and maybe even hammer grip rowing till you know you are 100%. Then you can start balancing out the palm positions.

    3) I would start practicing some zercher squats as a long term goal if you do not want to back to back squats. It will be much easier vs goblet when things get heavy. And if you practice now, you will have the technique down and wont be doing odd things like resting 100lbs on just one bone of forearm instead of both, and not using the barbell as a wedge to separate your elbow because you thing it will roll away.

    4) If you can not find a way to pull up with your palms towards each other or towards your face, then you much reverse the grip of the row so that you are rowing palms up. But one pull needs to be palms down, and one pull needs to be palms up, or you will start getting tennis elbow etc.

    5) There is no bad balances/exercises, only bad balances for "you". So other than your pulling i see no other adjustments needed. I dont know how over weight you are, or where you want to be at, however the folks that want to lose say 75lbs+ i normally put them on a different progression scheme for squats. I just tell them to start with the 45lb bar, and any weight lost you just add to the bar. So if you are say 275lbs, you start with the 45lb bar, and 6-12 months later you are 175lbs, and squatting 145lbs, you might have even been able to progress a bit faster and be squatting 200lbs by then, which is graduation numbers
    Night, that was an awesome set of answers. Way more than I expected and super, super helpful. Thank you so much.

    I’m gonna go digest all that and come back later with any questions. Thanks again.
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  8. #7928
    Registered User PressAltman's Avatar
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    Question

    Was wanting to sub in clean and press to All-pro beginner routine, could I do this instead of rows and press?
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  9. #7929
    Registered User trynex's Avatar
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    Great post, looking forward to following this routine. Just need some clarification

    1) in the FAQ it says to do "work-set, work-set", but in the initial post it says "4 sets for x reps", what are the 2 work-sets for?
    2) If using dumbells, is the 10% weight increase set in stone? For example, if I'm using 30 lbs per dumbell, a 10% total increase = 1.5 lbs per dumbell. If the lightest plates I have are 0.5, would I increase each dumbell by 1 lb or 2 lbs? (The reason I need to use dumbells is because I don't have a gym anywhere near me, and I won't have anyone to spot me so dumbells are by far the safer choice in my opinion)
    3) /showthread.php?t=175493881 - That thread says training for size benefits more from doing more hard sets in a week. However this thread's sets are hard - medium - light, should I still be following it if I only want to train for size?

    Sorry I don't have enough posts to create links
    Last edited by trynex; 12-15-2019 at 09:15 PM.
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  10. #7930
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PressAltman View Post
    Was wanting to sub in clean and press to All-pro beginner routine, could I do this instead of rows and press?
    Couldnt tell you. I dont have any experience with the clean and press.
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  11. #7931
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trynex View Post
    Great post, looking forward to following this routine. Just need some clarification

    1) in the FAQ it says to do "work-set, work-set", but in the initial post it says "4 sets for x reps", what are the 2 work-sets for?
    2) If using dumbells, is the 10% weight increase set in stone? For example, if I'm using 30 lbs per dumbell, a 10% total increase = 1.5 lbs per dumbell. If the lightest plates I have are 0.5, would I increase each dumbell by 1 lb or 2 lbs? (The reason I need to use dumbells is because I don't have a gym anywhere near me, and I won't have anyone to spot me so dumbells are by far the safer choice in my opinion)
    3) /showthread.php?t=175493881 - That thread says training for size benefits more from doing more hard sets in a week. However this thread's sets are hard - medium - light, should I still be following it if I only want to train for size?

    Sorry I don't have enough posts to create links
    Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
    Curls: work-set, work-set
    Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

    Depending on what abstract thought is going through someones head, the first 3 lifts are doing 4 sets or 2 work sets...

    The 10% bump is the min for the pattern to work. Some can double the working weight in 3 cycles with practice.

    This is a fatigue based training style. Go head and ask around if the workouts get easier as the week goes on

    But generally EVERYONE is training for size. The only folk that are training for strength are doing singles to maybe triples, for 3-4 hours a day, just to get in enough volume to grow. "hypertrophy" work(which is what this program is) is getting into and out of the gym as quickly as possible for max growth and max recovery time. You are not going to win a deadlift comp doing 45min full body 3x a week. You are not going to look well rounded doing just competition lifts for sets of 3, 3x a week.
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  12. #7932
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    Smile

    Originally Posted by sonivx View Post
    Thanks, Nightanole for the quick revert. I'm nowhere close to an advanced routine. To be honest, I recently started compound lifts, current stats are
    Bench (Dumbell) - 50 lb 10x4
    Overhead PRess(Dumbell) - 35lb 10x4
    Deadlift --> 200lb x5 (haven't been very regular on deadlifts the peak I reached was 200 lb for 5 reps in a set, otherwise 160 lb 10x4 sets.
    Squat --> 140lb 10x4

    I posted my current workout plan on my thread (removed http) forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177541021
    The reason my current volume is high is due to a lot of accessory workouts I'm doing. However I'm not following any structured way to increase the volume, just keep adding as and when I feel, I can do more. That's why I'm thinking to move to a more structured program to see better results in terms of losing the stubborn fat and gain some pounds of muscle.
    Hi Nightanole

    Started AllPro and I'm currently in the fifth week of Cycle three. Passed all my Test Weeks clearly so far. Here is the current Stats

    Body Weight - 179 lb (up 2 lb, not sure if it's Fat or muscle, the diet wasn't on point for a few in between.

    Squat 120 -> 140 -> 155
    Bench 110 -> 120 -> 130
    Row 50 -> 70 -> 90
    SLDL - 70 ->90 -> 110
    OHP - 60 -> 70 -> 80.
    Curls - 60 -> 65 -> 70.

    In addition, I'm doing smith machine Calf raises, Lat Pulldowns and pull/push-ups towards the end or work out.

    Hows my progress?
    I'm struggling with OHP with a bar, I could easily do a dumbbell shoulder press with 40lb dumbbells but struggling with 80 lb barbell OHP, I tend to hyperextend my back forward, tried on both smith machine and free barbell. any suggestion?
    Shall I bump up weight for SLDL? I feel 110 is light I can easily go up to 140, just not sure if I can bump up weight in the middle of the cycle. I'll start the 4th Cycle of 5 weeks next Monday.
    Also struggling to progress on barbell curls adding even 5 pounds kicks my ass. My left arm biceps bump is visibly smaller than the right hand, how to address it?

    Thanks!!
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  13. #7933
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sonivx View Post
    Hi Nightanole

    Started AllPro and I'm currently in the fifth week of Cycle three. Passed all my Test Weeks clearly so far. Here is the current Stats

    Body Weight - 179 lb (up 2 lb, not sure if it's Fat or muscle, the diet wasn't on point for a few in between.

    Squat 120 -> 140 -> 155
    Bench 110 -> 120 -> 130
    Row 50 -> 70 -> 90
    SLDL - 70 ->90 -> 110
    OHP - 60 -> 70 -> 80.
    Curls - 60 -> 65 -> 70.

    In addition, I'm doing smith machine Calf raises, Lat Pulldowns and pull/push-ups towards the end or work out.

    Hows my progress?
    I'm struggling with OHP with a bar, I could easily do a dumbbell shoulder press with 40lb dumbbells but struggling with 80 lb barbell OHP, I tend to hyperextend my back forward, tried on both smith machine and free barbell. any suggestion?
    Shall I bump up weight for SLDL? I feel 110 is light I can easily go up to 140, just not sure if I can bump up weight in the middle of the cycle. I'll start the 4th Cycle of 5 weeks next Monday.
    Also struggling to progress on barbell curls adding even 5 pounds kicks my ass. My left arm biceps bump is visibly smaller than the right hand, how to address it?

    Thanks!!
    Your row is starting to lack. It should be "around" your bench weight, and its not even your light day weight.

    OHP should be around 60% or more of your bench, and it literally is. You may also want to check out a few forms of the OHP grip. the rippetoe version has a lot of spring at the bottom, but destroys my wrists. I use the thumbs under false grip and end up with a lot of range.

    For OHP, look back a few posts on my push press recomendations.

    SLDL you are going for range, not weight, i would not go nutts on the weight you cant even deficit it yet. The goal is to get to top of the ankle line with a straight back.

    To help with the row, you could just add another row variant at the end of the work out for 1 set. Maybe an assisted chinup or an inverted row.
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  14. #7934
    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    I did heavy on Monday for squats (4-8 rep program) at 6 reps. I train in my garage and it was super cold. I thought I warmed up enough and all of a sudden I have some pain around the left side cap of my right knee (let me know if this don't make sense and I'll see if I can point to an image).

    Today I was feeling better for medium day but I didn't do squats just to make sure I didn't add further damage.

    I feel I'll be ready for Friday. So

    1. Any idea on what I may have done wrong (leaned forward to much or not enough warmups)? I'm asking so I don't make the same mistake again but considering it was super cold it could've been one off?
    2. Since I missed squats today, should I continue Friday was normal or redo heavy day again? Cheers
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  15. #7935
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    I did heavy on Monday for squats (4-8 rep program) at 6 reps. I train in my garage and it was super cold. I thought I warmed up enough and all of a sudden I have some pain around the left side cap of my right knee (let me know if this don't make sense and I'll see if I can point to an image).

    Today I was feeling better for medium day but I didn't do squats just to make sure I didn't add further damage.

    I feel I'll be ready for Friday. So

    1. Any idea on what I may have done wrong (leaned forward to much or not enough warmups)? I'm asking so I don't make the same mistake again but considering it was super cold it could've been one off?
    2. Since I missed squats today, should I continue Friday was normal or redo heavy day again? Cheers
    Pain on the inside of the knee/leg is normally caused by moving the knee inward during the squat(or row) to deload fatigued muscles and put the stress on the knee ligaments. The only other major cause is bad knee tracking were the foot is aimed in one drection, but the knee travels forward/outward in another direction, this creates torque on the knee.

    Improper warmup didnt cause it. "cold" didnt cause it. Bad form caused it.

    Since its 6 rep week, and you got your heavy day in, i wouldnt worry about it. Just do light day as normal. Hopefully the aggravated connective tissue will have reduced in inflammation, and the light day will help it "heal in motion". But heal in motion is more for muscle pulls...
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    1) You will progress slower with dumb bells vs a barbell, and there is greater chance of an imbalance occurring over time, since the weaker arm could be going at a slower pace at a weak point in the lift, even if it "catches up" at lock out, and you could be moving the dumb bell closer to the body at again the weak point of the lift. I dont think its a problem now, but i would not be usng 55-65lb dumb bells.

    2) at these weights you dont have to be doing shoulder prehab, but you can if your doc says do it for rehab. Face pulls etc are to help with micro muscle imbalances from benching well above body weight. If you are getting tendinitous, then its due to too much over hand pulling. You are doing bent over rows and assisted pullups, odds are both with the same grip. I would start chinuping (palms twards you) and maybe even hammer grip rowing till you know you are 100%. Then you can start balancing out the palm positions.

    3) I would start practicing some zercher squats as a long term goal if you do not want to back to back squats. It will be much easier vs goblet when things get heavy. And if you practice now, you will have the technique down and wont be doing odd things like resting 100lbs on just one bone of forearm instead of both, and not using the barbell as a wedge to separate your elbow because you thing it will roll away.

    4) If you can not find a way to pull up with your palms towards each other or towards your face, then you much reverse the grip of the row so that you are rowing palms up. But one pull needs to be palms down, and one pull needs to be palms up, or you will start getting tennis elbow etc.

    5) There is no bad balances/exercises, only bad balances for "you". So other than your pulling i see no other adjustments needed. I dont know how over weight you are, or where you want to be at, however the folks that want to lose say 75lbs+ i normally put them on a different progression scheme for squats. I just tell them to start with the 45lb bar, and any weight lost you just add to the bar. So if you are say 275lbs, you start with the 45lb bar, and 6-12 months later you are 175lbs, and squatting 145lbs, you might have even been able to progress a bit faster and be squatting 200lbs by then, which is graduation numbers
    Night,

    I did my first barbell workout today and it was truly awesome. Thanks so much. It was great

    It feel like Support muscles were more involved. It felt good to have those activated.

    1. I was able to look in the mirror and see by the angle of the horizontal bar of the barbell when any imbalance between left and right side occurred. I corrected it in real time of course really great. Plus it felt better than dumbbells. Thank you.

    2. The problem is that the assisted chin up machine has left and right grips/bars that don’t really come close enough to center to do a comfortable pull up.

    Even if you do a wide grip And retract scapula and spread elbows out a little wide, there are problems because there’s too much pressure put on the pinkies, and the wrists/arms are a little twisted.

    I asked one of the people who worked at the gym, and he said he encounters the same problem with this machine.

    He did offer up some of the machines that use pulleys, but I’m really trying to use free weights and body weights as much as possible because I’ve heard that this is better for the secondary muscles etc..

    ****please tell me if I’m wrong about that, or if this is an inconsequential concern.****

    I did do chin-ups tonight and they felt great For the working muscles. However the hand....was sort of OK. Hands were uncomfortable. I’m not sure it’s a good idea.

    The employee said that some guy who works out there brings in some kind of special bar that straddles the left and right handles and us able to do a regular ergor chin up where the arms are more centered and not pushed more widely than is comfortable.

    ???? I’m going to be looking for such a bar but do you know of one????

    3. I looked up Zurchers and did them with a good form. That felt really great! Better than using a dumbbell. Thanks, I love it.

    ???? I am concerned that as the weight increases, the barbell will feel too heavy on the crook of my elbow? I guess I’ll put a towel under that or something. I’m a little curious if you have a suggestion????

    4. Thumbs up - glad I asked thanks!!

    5. I weigh 243.

    FWIW, My body/limbs look better since I re-started working out 12 weeks ago. ( 8 of the past 12 weeks). **However*** I have lost or gained only 1 pound in that time. (I was either 242 or 244 previously). That part is frustrating and very disappointing.

    ????? My BOR -- Now that I’m using barbells, I don’t have as much scapular retraction doing this move as when I was using dumbbells. . Part of that is my belly getting in the way. Any suggestions? Should I be pulling more towards the nipple, or is just a few inches below that fine (where I currently do it) just fine? .

    FWIW, here are my numbers.
    All barbells except as noted:

    2 working sets:
    Zercher -- The bar (probably 45#)
    Bench -- 105
    BOR -- 70
    OHP -- 50
    SLDL -- 60 but probably could’ve done 65.

    2 sets:
    Chinups -- 110# of assist on the assist machine. I weigh 243#.

    1 set:
    Face pulls -- 27# pulley/split "Y"-rope.
    Hammer -- dumbbells 20# each side
    Calfs -- body weight

    thanks again,
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 27MinuteMiracle View Post
    Night,

    I did my first barbell workout today and it was truly awesome. Thanks so much. It was great

    It feel like Support muscles were more involved. It felt good to have those activated.

    1. I was able to look in the mirror and see by the angle of the horizontal bar of the barbell when any imbalance between left and right side occurred. I corrected it in real time of course really great. Plus it felt better than dumbbells. Thank you.

    2. The problem is that the assisted chin up machine has left and right grips/bars that don’t really come close enough to center to do a comfortable pull up.

    Even if you do a wide grip And retract scapula and spread elbows out a little wide, there are problems because there’s too much pressure put on the pinkies, and the wrists/arms are a little twisted.

    I asked one of the people who worked at the gym, and he said he encounters the same problem with this machine.

    He did offer up some of the machines that use pulleys, but I’m really trying to use free weights and body weights as much as possible because I’ve heard that this is better for the secondary muscles etc..

    ****please tell me if I’m wrong about that, or if this is an inconsequential concern.****

    I did do chin-ups tonight and they felt great For the working muscles. However the hand....was sort of OK. Hands were uncomfortable. I’m not sure it’s a good idea.

    The employee said that some guy who works out there brings in some kind of special bar that straddles the left and right handles and us able to do a regular ergor chin up where the arms are more centered and not pushed more widely than is comfortable.

    ???? I’m going to be looking for such a bar but do you know of one????

    3. I looked up Zurchers and did them with a good form. That felt really great! Better than using a dumbbell. Thanks, I love it.

    ???? I am concerned that as the weight increases, the barbell will feel too heavy on the crook of my elbow? I guess I’ll put a towel under that or something. I’m a little curious if you have a suggestion????

    4. Thumbs up - glad I asked thanks!!

    5. I weigh 243.

    FWIW, My body/limbs look better since I re-started working out 12 weeks ago. ( 8 of the past 12 weeks). **However*** I have lost or gained only 1 pound in that time. (I was either 242 or 244 previously). That part is frustrating and very disappointing.

    ????? My BOR -- Now that I’m using barbells, I don’t have as much scapular retraction doing this move as when I was using dumbbells. . Part of that is my belly getting in the way. Any suggestions? Should I be pulling more towards the nipple, or is just a few inches below that fine (where I currently do it) just fine? .

    FWIW, here are my numbers.
    All barbells except as noted:

    2 working sets:
    Zercher -- The bar (probably 45#)
    Bench -- 105
    BOR -- 70
    OHP -- 50
    SLDL -- 60 but probably could’ve done 65.

    2 sets:
    Chinups -- 110# of assist on the assist machine. I weigh 243#.

    1 set:
    Face pulls -- 27# pulley/split "Y"-rope.
    Hammer -- dumbbells 20# each side
    Calfs -- body weight

    thanks again,
    I cant really solve your chinup grip issue, you will have to work with the equipment you have and find something comfortable. I have never heard of bringing in your own bar, but you could try a narrow grip assisted chin vs trying to go wide. Another idea is ropes/rings, but that requires a lot of grip strength.

    The zercher takes some practice so it doesnt hurt. With just a thick hoody folks can do 400lbs pain free. It does not go "in" your elbow, it rests across the 2 arm bones.


    The row is kinda of a reverse bench, so it should hit around the same spot as the bench, or a bit lower. YOu dont have to go nutts with the range of motion for for scapula (or squeezing at the top or something else dumb) just like you dont have to have your arse hit the floor doing super deep back squats.
    Last edited by nightanole; 12-22-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    I cant really solve your chinup grip issue, you will have to work with the equipment you have and find something comfortable. I have never heard of bringing in your own bar, but you could try a narrow grip assisted chin vs trying to go wide. Another idea is ropes/rings, but that requires a lot of grip strength.

    The zercher takes some practice so it doesnt hurt. With just a thick hoody folks can do 400lbs pain free. It does go "in" your elbow, it rests across the 2 arm bones.


    The row is kinda of a reverse bench, so it should hit around the same spot as the bench, or a bit lower. YOu dont have to go nutts with the range of motion for for scapula (or squeezing at the top or something else dumb) just like you dont have to have your arse hit the floor doing super deep back squats.
    Thanks so much
    I can move forward now. Thanks again!
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    Hi, I am starting bodybuilding can you tell me what weights to start with for the new ? and what diet could better for me?
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sejahtera View Post
    Hi, I am starting bodybuilding can you tell me what weights to start with for the new ? and what diet could better for me?
    You start off with your 10-12 rep max, in the order that you will be running the program. So your OHP will be lower since you will be benching before hand, as an example.

    the starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Adjust from there so you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Pain on the inside of the knee/leg is normally caused by moving the knee inward during the squat(or row) to deload fatigued muscles and put the stress on the knee ligaments. The only other major cause is bad knee tracking were the foot is aimed in one drection, but the knee travels forward/outward in another direction, this creates torque on the knee.

    Improper warmup didnt cause it. "cold" didnt cause it. Bad form caused it.

    Since its 6 rep week, and you got your heavy day in, i wouldnt worry about it. Just do light day as normal. Hopefully the aggravated connective tissue will have reduced in inflammation, and the light day will help it "heal in motion". But heal in motion is more for muscle pulls...
    Thanks, if you celebrate Xmas hope you had a great one if not hope your having happy holidays!!

    So after the above I came down with a flu, body aching, joints hurting etc so didn't train since last Friday.

    Feel better but I realised that when I squat (body weight when getting something from the cupboards) I still feel a mild pain around the "ligament" in my knee... Around the area in this picture

    https://images.app.goo.gl/P6mGJPb1hjZKGY497

    I'm hoping to do some squats on Monday but still a little concerned how I should proceed without making this worse..... Any thoughts?
    Last edited by GenerationZero; 12-28-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Thanks, if you celebrate Xmas hope you had a great one if not hope your having happy holidays!!

    So after the above I came down with a flu, body aching, joints hurting etc so didn't train since last Friday.

    Feel better but I realised that when I squat (body weight when getting something from the cupboards) I still feel a mild pain around the "ligament" in my knee... Around the area in this picture

    https://images.app.goo.gl/P6mGJPb1hjZKGY497

    I'm hoping to do some squats on Monday but still a little concerned how I should proceed without making this worse..... Any thoughts?
    The ligament will take a long time to be 100%, you are talking maybe months before its no longer agitated.

    Its going to be weight that agitates it, not reps or frequency. So you may have to do something like up the rep range.

    For a good workout you just need to be stopping 4-5 reps from failure or less.

    So if light day feels fine but medium is kinda naggy, you may need to work at the 18-24 rep per set range.

    Its what ever load that causes your ligament to stretch and become inflamed.

    But unfortunately if just stop and never stress it, it wont thicken up and get strong again.

    I buggered a ligament in my wrist pretty bad(evidently so to baseball pitchers) and it took a full year to get to 100%. I just kept it wrapped/reneforced during workouts and did extended warmups(a few 30 second dead hangs before chinups to make sure it was healed up from the previous session).

    So you may want to try out some knee wraps for 1-2 sessions a week. Just make sure you are squatting wrap free for at least 2 sessions a week.
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  23. #7943
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    Hi everyone,

    Complete newbie to the forum (first post!) and going to try my hands at this as really want to get somewhere after sadly many failed attempts at the gym lifestyle.. All I can do is keep getting up again when I fail and stop for a bit right?

    Just a question..

    Q3 on the faq's .. There seems to be an error message when I load that link.. It does not work.. Not sure if this has been addressed somewhere else so sorry for the repeat question if so, but in the case of it not working.. Can someone please specify question 3 for me and how to figure the calorie / diet aspect out? Or where I might go for more information?

    I have a hard time wrapping my head around bodybuilding / diet terminology and understanding which sucks!

    Thanks so much!
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  24. #7944
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CanadianQuokka View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Complete newbie to the forum (first post!) and going to try my hands at this as really want to get somewhere after sadly many failed attempts at the gym lifestyle.. All I can do is keep getting up again when I fail and stop for a bit right?

    Just a question..

    Q3 on the faq's .. There seems to be an error message when I load that link.. It does not work.. Not sure if this has been addressed somewhere else so sorry for the repeat question if so, but in the case of it not working.. Can someone please specify question 3 for me and how to figure the calorie / diet aspect out? Or where I might go for more information?

    I have a hard time wrapping my head around bodybuilding / diet terminology and understanding which sucks!

    Thanks so much!
    It links to an outdated faq from the nutrition section of the forum. Just wonder over to check out the current stickies.

    If you still want to read the post you can use the wayback machine.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110616...hp?t=121703981
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  25. #7945
    Registered User GenerationZero's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The ligament will take a long time to be 100%, you are talking maybe months before its no longer agitated.

    Its going to be weight that agitates it, not reps or frequency. So you may have to do something like up the rep range.

    For a good workout you just need to be stopping 4-5 reps from failure or less.

    So if light day feels fine but medium is kinda naggy, you may need to work at the 18-24 rep per set range.

    Its what ever load that causes your ligament to stretch and become inflamed.

    But unfortunately if just stop and never stress it, it wont thicken up and get strong again.

    I buggered a ligament in my wrist pretty bad(evidently so to baseball pitchers) and it took a full year to get to 100%. I just kept it wrapped/reneforced during workouts and did extended warmups(a few 30 second dead hangs before chinups to make sure it was healed up from the previous session).

    So you may want to try out some knee wraps for 1-2 sessions a week. Just make sure you are squatting wrap free for at least 2 sessions a week.
    So I did a workout today but after being off for a week and half due to a flu etc I didn't go heavy as I normally would just to get into the rhythm.

    I couldn't do any squats, not even warm up/bodyweight as any pressure I put on the side of my knee caused some "burning" pain, only when going past parallel whether on the way down or up. Eventually it eased up a bit....

    So I suppose I have to give it some time to heal. I think I may have caved my knee.... So if I can't do squats for a while

    1. Anything I can do in replacement until I feel I can do at least bodyweight squats? Concerned I become weaker with squats.

    2. If I did cave my knee in would it still be a ligament or something else, I know its difficult to tell but I'd try and avoid whatever I did wrong in future.

    The pain does die down unless I squat which gives it a mild burn pain but if I don't use my knee to squat then it can be ok for a day or so. Cheers
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  26. #7946
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    So I did a workout today but after being off for a week and half due to a flu etc I didn't go heavy as I normally would just to get into the rhythm.

    I couldn't do any squats, not even warm up/bodyweight as any pressure I put on the side of my knee caused some "burning" pain, only when going past parallel whether on the way down or up. Eventually it eased up a bit....

    So I suppose I have to give it some time to heal. I think I may have caved my knee.... So if I can't do squats for a while

    1. Anything I can do in replacement until I feel I can do at least bodyweight squats? Concerned I become weaker with squats.

    2. If I did cave my knee in would it still be a ligament or something else, I know its difficult to tell but I'd try and avoid whatever I did wrong in future.

    The pain does die down unless I squat which gives it a mild burn pain but if I don't use my knee to squat then it can be ok for a day or so. Cheers
    Ive posted this several times in the past. Just do box squats, even unloaded with a broom handle mimicking the bar while at home. Its what most advise for people doing knee/ankle rehab, or just have permanent knee damage from getting old/trauma.

    Im not going to bother linking the ultimate box squats tutorial again. But basically just squat so that your knees do not travel forward, and rig up your stance so your shins are perpendicular to the floor in all directions when sitting on the box. Put your full weight on the box. And you are cheating if your knees travel forward when getting off the box.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Ive posted this several times in the past. Just do box squats, even unloaded with a broom handle mimicking the bar while at home. Its what most advise for people doing knee/ankle rehab, or just have permanent knee damage from getting old/trauma.

    Im not going to bother linking the ultimate box squats tutorial again. But basically just squat so that your knees do not travel forward, and rig up your stance so your shins are perpendicular to the floor in all directions when sitting on the box. Put your full weight on the box. And you are cheating if your knees travel forward when getting off the box.
    Ah I think I've read that and know what you're referring to.... but considering I can't get past parallel without burning pain, I'll give it more recovery period and then consider this if I feel I've lost my grip with squats.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    Ah I think I've read that and know what you're referring to.... but considering I can't get past parallel without burning pain, I'll give it more recovery period and then consider this if I feel I've lost my grip with squats.
    You dont have to squat past parallel. Rehab starts 2-3" above parallel, and they just adjust the box as needed.
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    So thinking about everything and I realised my last cycle was a bit of a mess. I'm thinking is it worth starting this year with 16-24 reps on all exercises?

    I say this as my squats caused the knee issue, I was stalling on OHP, changed curls to 16-24 reps (dropped the weight almost 50% on light day and still lifting more to an extent, but get a super pump). Bench is on slow progression.

    Not sure what you may think about this? Or even add a third set? Just feel that I've been on the 8-12 rep range for over a year and might be worth tweaking? Happy to know your thoughts. Cheers
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    Originally Posted by GenerationZero View Post
    So thinking about everything and I realised my last cycle was a bit of a mess. I'm thinking is it worth starting this year with 16-24 reps on all exercises?

    I say this as my squats caused the knee issue, I was stalling on OHP, changed curls to 16-24 reps (dropped the weight almost 50% on light day and still lifting more to an extent, but get a super pump). Bench is on slow progression.

    Not sure what you may think about this? Or even add a third set? Just feel that I've been on the 8-12 rep range for over a year and might be worth tweaking? Happy to know your thoughts. Cheers
    You can always adjust the rep range. I would not be adding sets as you do not need them. Allpro is already very high volume compared to most beginner programs.

    You could always just 2x allpro, and do 16-24 rep sets, and add 2 reps a week.
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