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  1. #6871
    Registered User Michael3011's Avatar
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    Subscribed for this workout after I stall at fierce 5! Love the movements.
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  2. #6872
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Michael3011 View Post
    Subscribed for this workout after I stall at fierce 5! Love the movements.
    Im not going to say thats a terrible idea, but its not a very good one. If you can stand the progression and are bulking, F5 will carry you further before you need to switch to a more complex intermediate routine.

    Switching inbetween novice routines is never a good idea. Pick either F5 or allpro, Once your monthly progression is less than 3% for 2 months, switch to an intermediate program, that is more suited for the 10-25% per year progression rate.
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  3. #6873
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    Not been able to workout properly for a couple of months and now that im back I thought I'd try this out. Just did my test day today, excited to start this

    One question though, I replaced curls with lat pulldowns, am I correct to understand that the grip of the row and pulldown should be opposites? So if you do supinated rows you should do pronated pulldowns? Read an old answer that suggested it.

    Also I've been researching some questions that I had about this program past days and damn nightanole, it's impressive how much time you've put into helping people in the all pro threads
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  4. #6874
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Pomegranate23 View Post
    Not been able to workout properly for a couple of months and now that im back I thought I'd try this out. Just did my test day today, excited to start this

    One question though, I replaced curls with lat pulldowns, am I correct to understand that the grip of the row and pulldown should be opposites? So if you do supinated rows you should do pronated pulldowns? Read an old answer that suggested it.

    Also I've been researching some questions that I had about this program past days and damn nightanole, it's impressive how much time you've put into helping people in the all pro threads
    Yup the curl and row should be opposite grip, to prevent things such as tennis elbow. supinated pulldown should be done narrow grip, pronated pulldown should be wide grip.

    I tend to get tennis elbow if i row till i get tired with pronated grip, i i will do a narrowish supinated row, and a wider pronated pullup.
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  5. #6875
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    With a mild interuption, you can either do heavy heavy if the sessions are at least 72 hours apart. You can just do heavy medium if medium is only delayed a day. You an do heavy/medium and skip light day. Any of those would be fine, and one really isnt better than another.

    You are allowed to skip up to 2 light days a cycle. These light days are mainly for deload/practice/cns, not promoting growth. If you want a bit more growth on light days, you need to reduce the rest time a lot, like down to 30 seconds.
    Thank you! Heavy/Medium sounds like a good plan as long as i can recover from the procedure on time. Have a good weekend!

    I just read your previous response about supinated/pronanted curl/row.
    I have been doing supinated rows and curls. Should I switch to pronated rows and supinated curls?
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  6. #6876
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by killakam99 View Post
    Thank you! Heavy/Medium sounds like a good plan as long as i can recover from the procedure on time. Have a good weekend!

    I just read your previous response about supinated/pronanted curl/row.
    I have been doing supinated rows and curls. Should I switch to pronated rows and supinated curls?
    It all depends on your forearms. Some people get massive tennis elbow with just a few sessions of pronated curls, and some are the same with pronated rows. You might be able to do all supinated and then some pronated wrist curls.


    Scientists still dont know what the perfect bicep routine is. Brofessors are to the point of: elbow goes behind the spine= long head, elbows stays in front of the spine = short head. And palms up = short head, palms down = long head. However them suckers fire full force regardless of wrist/eblow position, its only how much the contribute to the movement that changes.
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  7. #6877
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    It all depends on your forearms. Some people get massive tennis elbow with just a few sessions of pronated curls, and some are the same with pronated rows. You might be able to do all supinated and then some pronated wrist curls.


    Scientists still dont know what the perfect bicep routine is. Brofessors are to the point of: elbow goes behind the spine= long head, elbows stays in front of the spine = short head. And palms up = short head, palms down = long head. However them suckers fire full force regardless of wrist/eblow position, its only how much the contribute to the movement that changes.
    gotcha! informative as usual. ill try pronated rows and see how it feels. thanks again dude!
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  8. #6878
    Registered User Vyprath's Avatar
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    Hi, I’m wanting to build some thickness in the lats to get that broad shoulders look. What exercise would you recommend I do for this? Would rowing to my waist be good, I know it works the lats more but would probably neglect the upper back.
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  9. #6879
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    Hi, I’m wanting to build some thickness in the lats to get that broad shoulders look. What exercise would you recommend I do for this? Would rowing to my waist be good, I know it works the lats more but would probably neglect the upper back.
    If you want wider shoulders, you want side delt work. So the easiest is to switch curls to upright rows. Again, bar bell, tune grip so that the rep naturally ends when eblows get to shoulder level, we dont want to do the eblows to ears version.

    Now if you are missing the center of your "v" taper, that is the lats, and just do chinups.
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  10. #6880
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup the curl and row should be opposite grip, to prevent things such as tennis elbow. supinated pulldown should be done narrow grip, pronated pulldown should be wide grip.

    I tend to get tennis elbow if i row till i get tired with pronated grip, i i will do a narrowish supinated row, and a wider pronated pullup.
    Thanks for replying. This sounds good as I have same preference as you when it comes to row/pulldown

    Did my first day today (novice variant), seems like I was too excited during test day as bench/row/ohp felt far too heavy for day1 so will lower weights by 2.5kg for the rest of the cycle. But it was really fun training like this with a set rest time. Different experience compared to 5x5/3x5 programs. Also looking forward to the conditioning gaiiinzz as I get out of breath kinda fast right now haha
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  11. #6881
    Registered User bjw11180's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you want wider shoulders, you want side delt work. So the easiest is to switch curls to upright rows. Again, bar bell, tune grip so that the rep naturally ends when eblows get to shoulder level, we dont want to do the eblows to ears version.

    Now if you are missing the center of your "v" taper, that is the lats, and just do chinups.
    Aren't pull-ups supposed to be superior to chinups as far as the lats are concerned?
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  12. #6882
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bjw11180 View Post
    Aren't pull-ups supposed to be superior to chinups as far as the lats are concerned?
    We are splitting hairs at that point. You go wide, its more lat dominant. You go narrow, its more upper back/bicep and "less" lat. But how much that weee 1lb of bicep meat can somewhat deload that huge lat, is up for debate.

    BUUUUUUUt we do know that chinups have a longer ROM, and people can do more chinups than pull ups. Pullups are more bicep, and chinups are more "whole arm".
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  13. #6883
    Registered User Vyprath's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you want wider shoulders, you want side delt work. So the easiest is to switch curls to upright rows. Again, bar bell, tune grip so that the rep naturally ends when eblows get to shoulder level, we dont want to do the eblows to ears version.

    Now if you are missing the center of your "v" taper, that is the lats, and just do chinups.
    From what I have read and seen having wide lats will make your whole upper body wider, and do the Side delts not get worked during OHP?
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  14. #6884
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    From what I have read and seen having wide lats will make your whole upper body wider, and do the Side delts not get worked during OHP?
    Long term with allpro, generally you will need some lat and side delt work. OHP does work the delts, and rows do work the lats. But if you use your argument, then that means you dont need more lat work, since you are rowing, just like you think you dont need side delt work because you are doing the OHP.

    The lats will not give you bigger shoulders, and will not make your silhouette wider. But without lats you wont have a v-taper, you will have a "T". But without side delts, Its going to be a pretty thin "V".

    So honestly i think most will need both lat and side delt work, either towards the end of allpro, or early into the next program. Programming gets more complex the stronger you get. You might be able to get away with just bench/row/squat for weeks, or even a few months. Then you will need a few more exercises. Then a few months or more later, you will need a few more exercises. Then you will come to the point where you need to rotate variants or at least reps and sets. And it goes on and on.
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  15. #6885
    Registered User kylejames13's Avatar
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    Hi Everyone,

    Starting a beginner program depends a lot of what level of beginner you would consider yourself. If you are someone that is pretty physically fit and just getting back into it or into heavy lifting for the first time or if you are really someone that is trying to get into fitness for the first time. My advice on what you should be doing is being cautious and focusing on the fundamentals.

    From someone that had an athletic background playing basketball throughout college I didn't really need to get into heavy lifting until going into my Junior year. I started out like most gym goers just going in and throwing on as much weight as i could move without any regard for how my form was. I of course had the typical injuries that came with this at the shoulder, wrists, knees, etc.

    Once i graduated and wanted to take it very seriously I really dropped the weight and focused on making sure i was doing every move correctly before really moving up in weight and even so was doing so slowly making sure i was maintaining that form. This actually led to me making huge gains not only in my strength but in my physique as well. (not shocking when you think about it, correct form = hitting/utilizing the muscles correctly = BIG GAINS)

    Therefore, I think it best to start slow

    If you are brand new to the gym i would follow a workout along these lines:
    Day 1:
    Warm-up: 5 minutes on Rower
    5 Sets of 10 - 10 Push ups (Knees down, Wall Pushes if needed)
    5 Sets of 10 - Seated cable row
    5 Sets of 10 - Light Curls focusing on squeezing bicep
    5 Sets of 10 - Light Rope Tricep Extensions Focusing on contraction at the bottom
    5 Sets of 10 - Light Overhead shoulder press, slow controlled movement

    Lower Body:
    5 Minutes on Treadmill
    5 Sets of 10 - Body Squats, focus on full range of motion
    5 Sets of 10 - Leg Extensions, focus on full range of motion
    5 Sets of 10 - Leg Curls, focus on full range of motion
    5 Sets of 10 - Leg Press, focus on full range of motion


    Moderate Skill Level:
    Upper Body:
    5 Minutes on Rower
    4 Sets of 10,8,6,4 Reps - Slow controlled bench with increasing Weight
    4 Sets of 10,8,6,4 Reps - Smith Machine bent over rows
    4 Sets of 10 Reps - Tricep Pulldowns, focus on squeeze at the bottom
    4 Sets 10 Reps - Alternating DB curls focusing on contraction
    Dropset Burnout on Chest press machine
    Dropset Burnout on Row Machine
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  16. #6886
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    Question

    So you do all 7 exercises in one day for three days a week?
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  17. #6887
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Anonymoussss4 View Post
    So you do all 7 exercises in one day for three days a week?
    Yup

    Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
    Curls: work-set, work-set
    Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

    every session
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  18. #6888
    Registered User Vyprath's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Long term with allpro, generally you will need some lat and side delt work. OHP does work the delts, and rows do work the lats. But if you use your argument, then that means you dont need more lat work, since you are rowing, just like you think you dont need side delt work because you are doing the OHP.

    The lats will not give you bigger shoulders, and will not make your silhouette wider. But without lats you wont have a v-taper, you will have a "T". But without side delts, Its going to be a pretty thin "V".

    So honestly i think most will need both lat and side delt work, either towards the end of allpro, or early into the next program. Programming gets more complex the stronger you get. You might be able to get away with just bench/row/squat for weeks, or even a few months. Then you will need a few more exercises. Then a few months or more later, you will need a few more exercises. Then you will come to the point where you need to rotate variants or at least reps and sets. And it goes on and on.
    Interesting, does that mean pretty much all of the exercises is not enough for each muscle group to grow? Would a upper/lower split be better? What’s the different between a beginner and intermediate/novice routine. Keep in mind I’m only near the end of cycle 2.

    For triceps I am currently doing lying extensions with ez bar and cg bench press, would it be better to superset the cg bb or to do it serperatley?

    How important is it to have 100g of fat a day? I usually hit about 50-60
    Last edited by Vyprath; 02-11-2019 at 11:34 PM.
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  19. #6889
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    Interesting, does that mean pretty much all of the exercises is not enough for each muscle group to grow? Would a upper/lower split be better? What’s the different between a beginner and intermediate/novice routine. Keep in mind I’m only near the end of cycle 2.

    For triceps I am currently doing lying extensions with ez bar and cg bench press, would it be better to superset the cg bb or to do it serperatley?

    How important is it to have 100g of fat a day? I usually hit about 50-60
    Its the fact that everyone is different, and everybody's muscles grow at different rates. There i was one really good body builder in the pre arnold days, his leg routine was just carrying his wheel chair brother up the stairs each night, that was it. Others can get calves like water melons just doing grocery shopping a few times a week.

    So most beginner routines are programmed as a good base, you will need at least XX exercises in these amounts as a minimum.
    Nobody knows if you are going to need additional volume, or need to back off the volume. We had one guy on here that needed ZERO side delt/lat work, his responded to just OHP and chinups like mad.

    You switch to an upper/lower or push/pull when you cant stand doing full body for 2-3 hours 3x a week. Then you switch to a 4 day that takes 1-1.5 hours per workout.

    You switch from beginner (up to 25% added to the bar each month) to intermediate (up to 25% added to the bar each year) once you cant progress at 3% per month. If you failed every other test day on allpro, you are still progressing at 5% a month.


    The fat requirement is high(ish) because of the bro diet off "adding" fat to ingredients. You can easily get away with 50-60g, if most of the fat is not a separate source. So if that 50g comes from nuts/meat/grains/dairy/veg etc, you are good. If most of that 50g comes from olive oil, coconut oil, corn/soy oil, and straight butter, that is not good, and you will need to up that to 100g in order to get in "enough".
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  20. #6890
    Registered User AbeFroman12's Avatar
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    I have been following this program as it is written and yesterday was my "test" day of 12 rep sets. I did pretty well up until this week and, yesterday, I did not get all 12 reps on really any of the lifts except for calf raises and bicep curls. I also do not feel as though I have put on much muscle nor strength and I think it's primarily diet-related. I think I am not getting the macros I need and probably calculated wrong and/or am not taking in the amounts that I think I am. Does this sound as though it is likely the reason? Just want to verify that I should repeat all 5 weeks at the same weight I am at now, starting over with 8 reps.

    I apologize if these items are discussed in the thread someplace (and I'm sure they are) as I do not have time to read through all 230 pages.
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  21. #6891
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    I have been following this program as it is written and yesterday was my "test" day of 12 rep sets. I did pretty well up until this week and, yesterday, I did not get all 12 reps on really any of the lifts except for calf raises and bicep curls. I also do not feel as though I have put on much muscle nor strength and I think it's primarily diet-related. I think I am not getting the macros I need and probably calculated wrong and/or am not taking in the amounts that I think I am. Does this sound as though it is likely the reason? Just want to verify that I should repeat all 5 weeks at the same weight I am at now, starting over with 8 reps.

    I apologize if these items are discussed in the thread someplace (and I'm sure they are) as I do not have time to read through all 230 pages.
    Yup you started way too heavy. Your first test day should have been the easiest test day of your life. Even if you started waaaaaay too light, you could have just bumped the weights 15-20% (10% is the absolute min for the pattern to work, some double squat weight in 3 cycles with just practice).

    And the min macros for "most" people is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Much below that and performance suffers. Its much better to create a deficit used low intensity steady state cardio vs "under eating". You are not going to get abs as a male eating 1000-1500 cals a day, you are just going to look anemic.
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  22. #6892
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup you started way too heavy. Your first test day should have been the easiest test day of your life. Even if you started waaaaaay too light, you could have just bumped the weights 15-20% (10% is the absolute min for the pattern to work, some double squat weight in 3 cycles with just practice).

    And the min macros for "most" people is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Much below that and performance suffers. Its much better to create a deficit used low intensity steady state cardio vs "under eating". You are not going to get abs as a male eating 1000-1500 cals a day, you are just going to look anemic.
    Thanks for the response and for helping clear things up for me. Sounds like I went way too heavy on my lifting and way too light on my eating. So, on the resistance, should I go back to square 1 (week 1 or 8-rep sets week) and lighten the weight and start over? I guess I've always tried to lift (especially in my past, younger days - I'm 45 now) until failure on my last set and I obviously still suffer from this tendency.

    I'm having a hard time getting enough protein in my diet, I know that much, and I'm probably too low on calories, too (probably mainly due to fearing gaining too much body-fat). I feel like the best solution for this is heavy meal-prep on the weekends so that I have several ready to go for the week. If there are any suggestions for this, I'd love to hear (read) them. Also, does this program work well subscribing to the advice in the nutrition and Losing Fat forum stickies - like the "Estimating your TDEE" post ?
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    Thanks for the response and for helping clear things up for me. Sounds like I went way too heavy on my lifting and way too light on my eating. So, on the resistance, should I go back to square 1 (week 1 or 8-rep sets week) and lighten the weight and start over? I guess I've always tried to lift (especially in my past, younger days - I'm 45 now) until failure on my last set and I obviously still suffer from this tendency.

    I'm having a hard time getting enough protein in my diet, I know that much, and I'm probably too low on calories, too (probably mainly due to fearing gaining too much body-fat). I feel like the best solution for this is heavy meal-prep on the weekends so that I have several ready to go for the week. If there are any suggestions for this, I'd love to hear (read) them. Also, does this program work well subscribing to the advice in the nutrition and Losing Fat forum stickies - like the "Estimating your TDEE" post ?
    If you got in all your reps on 11 rep week, lower the weights about 5% and start the next cycle at 8 reps. If you missed reps(or had massive form degradation) on 11 rep, then reduce 10%.

    Key points on this program vs "normal":

    "normal" is for highschool kids to do, to make weight for "football" during the off season. These are 3x5 and 5x5 programs.
    Allpro is a "body building" program. Its meant to put as much meat on you as possible while maintaining flexed abs. This is vs "normal" that has max weight gain with a limit of 18-20% body fat levels.
    Allpro is a fatigue based training style. You are not allowed to recover between heavy and medium day, and you are not allowed to recover between sets.
    Allpro is the only(as far as i know) routine that can be ran on a cut unaltered.
    On allpro your first goal is to get to 13% bf (flexed abs) as quickly as possible while learning the lifts. For most people this is bmi 22-23. You then slow bulk to bmi 25-26, and then spend a cycle or 2 cutting the baby fat back down to 13%@bmi24.

    The nutrition stickies are great. The calculators are garbage. The macro ratios are garbage. And the 1g of protein per pound/kg idea is garbage.

    If you are having troubles with your eating/macros, just think in weekly amounts. Your body will store and use all macros over 3-4 days. So you do not need to hit 100g of protein every day, but if you are not getting in 700g per week, long term that will bite you in the arse. 2% of your skeletal muscle weight is store in the free floating amino acid pool in your organs, and it only takes 120g to make a pound of human muscle, so you can easily do the math to see you have a good amount of a buffer for light eating days.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Its the fact that everyone is different, and everybody's muscles grow at different rates. There i was one really good body builder in the pre arnold days, his leg routine was just carrying his wheel chair brother up the stairs each night, that was it. Others can get calves like water melons just doing grocery shopping a few times a week.

    So most beginner routines are programmed as a good base, you will need at least XX exercises in these amounts as a minimum.
    Nobody knows if you are going to need additional volume, or need to back off the volume. We had one guy on here that needed ZERO side delt/lat work, his responded to just OHP and chinups like mad.

    You switch to an upper/lower or push/pull when you cant stand doing full body for 2-3 hours 3x a week. Then you switch to a 4 day that takes 1-1.5 hours per workout.

    You switch from beginner (up to 25% added to the bar each month) to intermediate (up to 25% added to the bar each year) once you cant progress at 3% per month. If you failed every other test day on allpro, you are still progressing at 5% a month.


    The fat requirement is high(ish) because of the bro diet off "adding" fat to ingredients. You can easily get away with 50-60g, if most of the fat is not a separate source. So if that 50g comes from nuts/meat/grains/dairy/veg etc, you are good. If most of that 50g comes from olive oil, coconut oil, corn/soy oil, and straight butter, that is not good, and you will need to up that to 100g in order to get in "enough".
    How many cycles in to the program would you say I could notice which muscle groups didn’t respond as well as others or need extra volume? I’m only at cycle 2 so I assume I’m not there yet
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you got in all your reps on 11 rep week, lower the weights about 5% and start the next cycle at 8 reps. If you missed reps(or had massive form degradation) on 11 rep, then reduce 10%.

    Key points on this program vs "normal":

    "normal" is for highschool kids to do, to make weight for "football" during the off season. These are 3x5 and 5x5 programs.
    Allpro is a "body building" program. Its meant to put as much meat on you as possible while maintaining flexed abs. This is vs "normal" that has max weight gain with a limit of 18-20% body fat levels.
    Allpro is a fatigue based training style. You are not allowed to recover between heavy and medium day, and you are not allowed to recover between sets.
    Allpro is the only(as far as i know) routine that can be ran on a cut unaltered.
    On allpro your first goal is to get to 13% bf (flexed abs) as quickly as possible while learning the lifts. For most people this is bmi 22-23. You then slow bulk to bmi 25-26, and then spend a cycle or 2 cutting the baby fat back down to 13%@bmi24.

    The nutrition stickies are great. The calculators are garbage. The macro ratios are garbage. And the 1g of protein per pound/kg idea is garbage.

    If you are having troubles with your eating/macros, just think in weekly amounts. Your body will store and use all macros over 3-4 days. So you do not need to hit 100g of protein every day, but if you are not getting in 700g per week, long term that will bite you in the arse. 2% of your skeletal muscle weight is store in the free floating amino acid pool in your organs, and it only takes 120g to make a pound of human muscle, so you can easily do the math to see you have a good amount of a buffer for light eating days.
    This helps a lot. Thanks. I did have some form degradation on reps 11 and 12 on bicep curls and failed to even get to rep 11 on all the other lifts, excluding calf raises. Sounds like I need to subtract 10% from everything but calf raises and start over at 8-rep sets next week.

    Could you please explain what you mean by "flexed abs" ? Do you mean, measuring body fat with abs in a flexed state, maybe? Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not allowed to recover between heavy and medium day." I do get the one day off in between lifting days, correct (for example, I've been doing whole body - all seven exercises - Monday, Wednesday, and Friday). Also, what should my recovery be between sets since you say "not allowed to recover between sets" ? I've been resting 1 minute after the first two (warm-up) sets and 1.5 minutes after the last two (work) sets. Have I been doing this wrong?

    Is the calculator within the calculator within the "Estimating your TDEE" post also garbage? ( This one: freedieting.com/tools/ca...calculator.htm - I can't post official links since I'm pretty new here. ) Yeah - my eating is not near what it needs to be. I've definitely been under 100 grams of protein and fats, which, no doubt, has hurt my progress.

    Thanks again for all the great help and advice!
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    This helps a lot. Thanks. I did have some form degradation on reps 11 and 12 on bicep curls and failed to even get to rep 11 on all the other lifts, excluding calf raises. Sounds like I need to subtract 10% from everything but calf raises and start over at 8-rep sets next week.

    Could you please explain what you mean by "flexed abs" ? Do you mean, measuring body fat with abs in a flexed state, maybe? Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not allowed to recover between heavy and medium day." I do get the one day off in between lifting days, correct (for example, I've been doing whole body - all seven exercises - Monday, Wednesday, and Friday). Also, what should my recovery be between sets since you say "not allowed to recover between sets" ? I've been resting 1 minute after the first two (warm-up) sets and 1.5 minutes after the last two (work) sets. Have I been doing this wrong?

    Is the calculator within the calculator within the "Estimating your TDEE" post also garbage? ( This one: freedieting.com/tools/ca...calculator.htm - I can't post official links since I'm pretty new here. ) Yeah - my eating is not near what it needs to be. I've definitely been under 100 grams of protein and fats, which, no doubt, has hurt my progress.

    Thanks again for all the great help and advice!
    By flexed abs, i mean 13% bf if you use a caliper. Its around the body fat level that you have a flat smooth stomach when relaxed, and have a 2-4 pack when you flex your abs.

    When i say you are not allowed to recover. If you can handle 3 heavies a week, you are not going heavy enough. Heavy day should be hard enough that medium day requires more effort to complete vs heavy day. with rest times between sets of the same exercise, there is a limit of 90 seconds or less. This keeps your fast twictch fibers from recovering, so you can exercise your bigger(and faster growing) slow twitch fibers. If you rest 3min inbetween sets of allpro, you are doing yourself a disservice.

    The calcs will all say you have to eat like a horse, so i never recommend them. its better to just stick to my mins or higher, and adjust 250 cals every 2 weeks till the scale starts moving in the direction you need.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup

    Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
    Over Head Press: work-set, work-set
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts: work-set, work-set
    Curls: work-set, work-set
    Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

    every session
    Thanks for info
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    By flexed abs, i mean 13% bf if you use a caliper. Its around the body fat level that you have a flat smooth stomach when relaxed, and have a 2-4 pack when you flex your abs.

    When i say you are not allowed to recover. If you can handle 3 heavies a week, you are not going heavy enough. Heavy day should be hard enough that medium day requires more effort to complete vs heavy day. with rest times between sets of the same exercise, there is a limit of 90 seconds or less. This keeps your fast twictch fibers from recovering, so you can exercise your bigger(and faster growing) slow twitch fibers. If you rest 3min inbetween sets of allpro, you are doing yourself a disservice.

    The calcs will all say you have to eat like a horse, so i never recommend them. its better to just stick to my mins or higher, and adjust 250 cals every 2 weeks till the scale starts moving in the direction you need.
    I think I was plenty heavy enough for heavy day, but I think I was too heavy and my medium day was, in turn, a heavy-medium day and my light day was, in turn, a medium-light day. My rest was right on par with what you are suggesting, so I'm actually good in at least that department. I may have been at around 2 minutes after some really exhausting sets, but never did I get over 2. That theory makes good sense (tiring out the fast-twitch fibers to get the slow-twitch fibers tome work).

    Yeah - I find that you are very right about the calcs. It was probably why I did not eat enough - I felt like the calculations were too high for me and I did not want to pack on a lot of body fat in doing the AllPro program. What you suggest sounds much better for me.

    Also, I mixed in some HIIT treadmill runs of about 20 to 30 minutes each week. I guess I should probably cut that back and/or take it out and just do the steady state cardio you mentioned in one of your posts above?

    Thanks!!!
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    Originally Posted by AbeFroman12 View Post
    I think I was plenty heavy enough for heavy day, but I think I was too heavy and my medium day was, in turn, a heavy-medium day and my light day was, in turn, a medium-light day. My rest was right on par with what you are suggesting, so I'm actually good in at least that department. I may have been at around 2 minutes after some really exhausting sets, but never did I get over 2. That theory makes good sense (tiring out the fast-twitch fibers to get the slow-twitch fibers tome work).

    Yeah - I find that you are very right about the calcs. It was probably why I did not eat enough - I felt like the calculations were too high for me and I did not want to pack on a lot of body fat in doing the AllPro program. What you suggest sounds much better for me.

    Also, I mixed in some HIIT treadmill runs of about 20 to 30 minutes each week. I guess I should probably cut that back and/or take it out and just do the steady state cardio you mentioned in one of your posts above?

    Thanks!!!
    I think we may have found a wiener. You can not do true HIIT on allpro, it basically counts as another lifting session. LISS cardio will improve recovery, but HIIT hinders it just like another lifting session.

    The recommended cardio on allpro is up to 3x10k jogs per week. This translates to "something" with a pace you can sustain for at least 45min with no rest, even if you do it in 20-30min intervals(5k jogs). You want to go on the rowing machine for 20min every day, go for it, you wan to go for a 3 hour bike ride every saturday morning, go for it. You want to catch pokemon on the recombent bike 1 hour 3 times a week, go for it. You want to max your heart rate on the treadmill, wait for it to drop, then repeat, dont do it.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    I think we may have found a wiener. You can not do true HIIT on allpro, it basically counts as another lifting session. LISS cardio will improve recovery, but HIIT hinders it just like another lifting session.

    The recommended cardio on allpro is up to 3x10k jogs per week. This translates to "something" with a pace you can sustain for at least 45min with no rest, even if you do it in 20-30min intervals(5k jogs). You want to go on the rowing machine for 20min every day, go for it, you wan to go for a 3 hour bike ride every saturday morning, go for it. You want to catch pokemon on the recombent bike 1 hour 3 times a week, go for it. You want to max your heart rate on the treadmill, wait for it to drop, then repeat, dont do it.
    Thanks! I didn't realize this about HIIT. I get bored with steady state cardio, which is the only reason I was doing HIIT, really. Guess I better get some good music or a good audio book to help out!

    I think I need to maybe read through the All Pro thread more closely. I believe it's more than one thread long, though, so that will take some time. Think it may help me get a better understanding of what to and what not to do on All Pro. Your posts /answers have really helped me a great deal. Appreciate it greatly!
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