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  1. #6721
    Registered User Benlionheart's Avatar
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    My girlfriend and I just finished week two day 1 on Tuesday and were wondering, since we won't be about to lift on the weekend, if it would be better to do one more heavy day or a medium on Thursday and a light on Friday? Thanks!
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  2. #6722
    Registered User Herkules403's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Assisted chinups or the 10 sets of 3 is best.

    calf raises it depends on you. Its the only lift that can benefit by doubling the reps to 16-24 per set. Some dont even do them because its a pure cosmetic lift, and some people have huge calfs already.

    You can do some rear delt work, facepulls, upright rows, band pull aparts etc. I tend to stay away from bands if there is a cable machine, bands are hardest when the muscle is fully contracted, and the weakest when the muscle is at full stretch, this is the opposite of the muscle strength curve.

    You are allowed to miss 2 light days per cycle. growth is handled by medium day, and strength by heavy day. Light day is a mini deload, and applies more volume so you cant recover.
    OK, so my routine looks like this now:

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Chin Ups
    Calf Raises
    Upright Rows

    If I do fail a rep on exercise(s) on for example: the third week. Should I stay on the third weeks rep schema till I've managed to do the acquired reps before I move on?
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  3. #6723
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Benlionheart View Post
    My girlfriend and I just finished week two day 1 on Tuesday and were wondering, since we won't be about to lift on the weekend, if it would be better to do one more heavy day or a medium on Thursday and a light on Friday? Thanks!
    You can do 2 heavies a week as long as they are at least 72 hours apart.
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  4. #6724
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Herkules403 View Post
    OK, so my routine looks like this now:

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Chin Ups
    Calf Raises
    Upright Rows

    If I do fail a rep on exercise(s) on for example: the third week. Should I stay on the third weeks rep schema till I've managed to do the acquired reps before I move on?
    No if you fail a rep you continue on, and still try to meet the next weeks rep goal. Even if you fail to get in 2 sets of 12 every other test day, you are still progressing at 5% a cycle. Feel free to stop a crap set short on any day but test day, its better to stop a set short vs a missed rep or a crap form grinder.
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  5. #6725
    Registered User Vyprath's Avatar
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    So is there something I can do besides a box squat, at least until I see the doctor about my knee to see what he says?
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  6. #6726
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    So is there something I can do besides a box squat, at least until I see the doctor about my knee to see what he says?
    box squat takes the knee out of the equation(or at least equalizes the torque applied to the knee). I dont know what to tell you, there is not a magic leg exercise that doesnt use the knee. Any time the knee goes forward, you will be applying torque. In a leg press, the knee is traveling forward. In a leg extension ALL the torque is applied to the front of the knee.


    The sumo deadlift and hex bar deadlift use more quad that a standard deadlift, but im just a guy on the internet, i have no clue if increasing weight but decreasing ROM will make your knee feel better.
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  7. #6727
    Registered User HelpingHanding's Avatar
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    Hey, just started this program. Here's what I'm thinking:

    Stats: 5'3
    Weight 190

    I want to use this program to lose about 50-60 lbs. I just completed heavy day. Think it's okay to add in lat pulldowns instead of curls? I don't see much value in curls at this stage of my lifting (could do them at the end, I guess, but I think a vertical pull might be more beneficial).

    I did heavy day 1 yesterday.

    Squat: 185 x 8
    Bench: 135x8
    Row: (Doing it more pendalay style, is that ok?) 135x8
    Ohp: 95x8
    Rdl: 135x8
    Lat pulldown 100x8
    Curls (Just in case the above wasn't acceptable) 50x8
    Calf press (machine) 270x12

    Today I did a little bit of cardio and these two ab exercises (will do a heavy and medium day for abs)
    cable crunch: 52.5x12
    Troso rotation machine: 50x12 each side.

    Think this is okay? I'm using a 12-16 rep scheme for calves and abs as recommended later on. I have some experience in lifting but mostly just messing around as evidenced by my ok for height, but not comapred to bodyweight lifts.

    This will be a long haul, I think. I have some experience on other programs, but this long, long cut I need to do because I let myself go means that I honestly think this program might have the best progression. I can't imagine doing 3x5 and adding lbs every workout during this cut.
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  8. #6728
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HelpingHanding View Post
    Hey, just started this program. Here's what I'm thinking:

    Stats: 5'3
    Weight 190

    I want to use this program to lose about 50-60 lbs. I just completed heavy day. Think it's okay to add in lat pulldowns instead of curls? I don't see much value in curls at this stage of my lifting (could do them at the end, I guess, but I think a vertical pull might be more beneficial).

    I did heavy day 1 yesterday.

    Squat: 185 x 8
    Bench: 135x8
    Row: (Doing it more pendalay style, is that ok?) 135x8
    Ohp: 95x8
    Rdl: 135x8
    Lat pulldown 100x8
    Curls (Just in case the above wasn't acceptable) 50x8
    Calf press (machine) 270x12

    Today I did a little bit of cardio and these two ab exercises (will do a heavy and medium day for abs)
    cable crunch: 52.5x12
    Troso rotation machine: 50x12 each side.

    Think this is okay? I'm using a 12-16 rep scheme for calves and abs as recommended later on. I have some experience in lifting but mostly just messing around as evidenced by my ok for height, but not comapred to bodyweight lifts.

    This will be a long haul, I think. I have some experience on other programs, but this long, long cut I need to do because I let myself go means that I honestly think this program might have the best progression. I can't imagine doing 3x5 and adding lbs every workout during this cut.
    Honestly your stats are a bit high for the program, most are already at ending level (10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squat, with a BMI of 24@13%).

    That being said the program can still be ran for your cutting routine unaltered till you get to 140lbs ish. Just dont expect stats to go up much, and they may even regress a little once you start getting really lean.

    Pendalay is fine at that working weight. I dont recomend it for folks rowing 80-100lbs, but once it starts reaching bmi24 weight, it becomes a better option vs bent over rows.

    Instead of lat pull downs/curls, you may want to look into upright rows. Since your row matches your bench, odds are you do not need much additional lat work. However most need some side delt/should work towards the end of the program, and the upright row fits the bill.


    Finally since you are towards the end of the program in terms of strength gains, you could also try out "novice" which is switching up to the first 3 lifts (bench/row/squat) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with the same 90 seconds or less rest time, test day still ends up being 24 reps.
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  9. #6729
    Registered User HelpingHanding's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight. What kind of working weight would you guess for upright row? I have never done that exercise at all.

    And I might try the novice, do you recommend I try this until I fail a test then switch to that, or just switch immediately? I'd obviously need to up the weight a fair bit in the 4 to 8 rep range
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  10. #6730
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HelpingHanding View Post
    Thanks for the insight. What kind of working weight would you guess for upright row? I have never done that exercise at all.

    And I might try the novice, do you recommend I try this until I fail a test then switch to that, or just switch immediately? I'd obviously need to up the weight a fair bit in the 4 to 8 rep range
    Upright row is normally 10-20% higher vs curl. You use a bar bell and "tune" your grip so that the movement naturally ends at shoulder level. You do not want the elbow to ears version.

    People switch to "novice" when they start getting gassed, because they can tax themselves much more vs a n00b. If you can still handle 8-12 go for it, else add 10% and try for 4-8.
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  11. #6731
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    Thanks for the additional help. I'll give it a go with this then for now. Will probably be the better part of a year to take this much weight off.
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  12. #6732
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    Nightanole hit a solid wall with my squat when i advanced to 100kg , weird how that 10% increase floored me so i reset my weight back to previous cycle , doesn't really bother me but i guess that will give my bench 48kg and OHP 24kg chance to catch up ?

    Also remebered you mentioned about mini bulk and cut's . How do you suggest doing that ? Bulk up to 25 BMI then drop down to 23 BMI and repeat that over and over ? How long do you suggest it should take you between them ?

    @90kg BMI = 23 / 98kg BMI 25 so once i hit 98kg then i cut till i hit 90kg should i aim to get that done in one or 2 cycles going up and then 2 cycles going down again or should i go faster or slower ?
    My Personal mottos
    Do the correct form and don't stroke your ego lifting heavier with bad form.
    Stay of a bloody scale and concentrate on measuring tape to see progress.
    No one can make you mad it is your choice if you want to get mad.
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  13. #6733
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Time-Man View Post
    Nightanole hit a solid wall with my squat when i advanced to 100kg , weird how that 10% increase floored me so i reset my weight back to previous cycle , doesn't really bother me but i guess that will give my bench 48kg and OHP 24kg chance to catch up ?

    Also remebered you mentioned about mini bulk and cut's . How do you suggest doing that ? Bulk up to 25 BMI then drop down to 23 BMI and repeat that over and over ? How long do you suggest it should take you between them ?

    @90kg BMI = 23 / 98kg BMI 25 so once i hit 98kg then i cut till i hit 90kg should i aim to get that done in one or 2 cycles going up and then 2 cycles going down again or should i go faster or slower ?
    Even if you pass next cycle on squats, that is still 5% progression per cycle. That is still incredibly fast if you drag that out over a year. Its not like you will be squatting 200kg for 10 reps this time next year.

    Yes the mini bulks are about 2-3 bmi points. The complete cycle should take 4-6 months. 3-5 months bulking, and then a 6-8 week cut.
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  14. #6734
    Registered User HelpingHanding's Avatar
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    Got through medium day
    Bench: 125x8
    Squats: 160x8
    Pendalay row: 125x8
    OHP: 90x8
    RDL: 125x8
    Upright row: 50x8
    BB curls: 45x8
    Incidentally, I think the rows and RDL are actually harder on medium day.... maybe due to fatigue, but I actually think it's because the ROM is longer without the full plate. I started a bit light on the RDL, so that's probably fine, will help my flexibility if nothing else, and the Pendalay is just... well. A bit harder because I can't touch the floor without the full plate, turning more into a parallel BOR.
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  15. #6735
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    Saw my doctor today, he said that because my left leg doesn’t rotate properly (the leg with the sore knee) that I should squat with my feet pointing forwards more, rather than out to the sides. Is squatting with feet pointing forward a good thing to do?
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  16. #6736
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    Saw my doctor today, he said that because my left leg doesn’t rotate properly (the leg with the sore knee) that I should squat with my feet pointing forwards more, rather than out to the sides. Is squatting with feet pointing forward a good thing to do?
    yes, its just a narrow squat stance. So jump high in the air, and land, and thats about as far as you want your balls of your feet to be, then just move your heels out so that your feet are pointing forward.
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  17. #6737
    Registered User polivoks's Avatar
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    Need help with few questions for my situation..

    Started allpro sometime a year ago and was 72kg.
    In August reached weight 79-80kg.
    During months after that was more active outside, swimming, bicycle riding, walking.
    Overall eating 2500 to 3000 calories.

    Switched to auto-regulated and was doing 2-3 workouts per week, sometime 1 per week as i had some ribcage pain that now is fine.
    Had a month break cause of traveling and some work projects
    and started gym routine again at the end of December, now going 2 times per week.

    Weighting myself and im currently constant around 75kg. (height 182cm)

    I feel sort of bit weaker then in summer and had to readjust my weights lower.

    My recent routine looks like this:
    Squat boxed novice 20kg/40kg warmup, 80kgx5, 80kgx4, 80kgx5
    Bench novice: 20kg/35kg warmup, 65kgx8, 65kgx6, 65kgx6
    Row: on 75kg usually can hit 12 reps but trying different forms so i can increase weight
    (pendlay and dead row then its less then 12 reps)
    Overhead: 45kg x 8, 45kg x 5
    Deadlift: 80kg x 10, 80kg x9
    Dips: 1 set 12 reps
    Cable Grip Curls / Upright rows 1 or 2 sets
    Chinups 1 or 2 sets, 7-10 reps
    Calfs


    Nutrition im tracking with myfitnspal, increased my calorie goal to 3250 after reading that we should be adding 250 cals every 2 weeks till the scale starts moving around 1kg per cycle. And macros last week average is 120g protein, 360g carbs, 140g fats.
    Im more on the vegetarian/fish/plant based eating side, also doing some intermittent fasting couple times a week, but always look to reach calorie goal that day especially on workout days.

    Where can i improve current routine and nutrition to get my progress back on track?
    Should i increase calorie intake more, and on off days too?

    Thanks!
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  18. #6738
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by polivoks View Post
    Need help with few questions for my situation..

    Started allpro sometime a year ago and was 72kg.
    In August reached weight 79-80kg.
    During months after that was more active outside, swimming, bicycle riding, walking.
    Overall eating 2500 to 3000 calories.

    Switched to auto-regulated and was doing 2-3 workouts per week, sometime 1 per week as i had some ribcage pain that now is fine.
    Had a month break cause of traveling and some work projects
    and started gym routine again at the end of December, now going 2 times per week.

    Weighting myself and im currently constant around 75kg. (height 182cm)

    I feel sort of bit weaker then in summer and had to readjust my weights lower.

    My recent routine looks like this:
    Squat boxed novice 20kg/40kg warmup, 80kgx5, 80kgx4, 80kgx5
    Bench novice: 20kg/35kg warmup, 65kgx8, 65kgx6, 65kgx6
    Row: on 75kg usually can hit 12 reps but trying different forms so i can increase weight
    (pendlay and dead row then its less then 12 reps)
    Overhead: 45kg x 8, 45kg x 5
    Deadlift: 80kg x 10, 80kg x9
    Dips: 1 set 12 reps
    Cable Grip Curls / Upright rows 1 or 2 sets
    Chinups 1 or 2 sets, 7-10 reps
    Calfs


    Nutrition im tracking with myfitnspal, increased my calorie goal to 3250 after reading that we should be adding 250 cals every 2 weeks till the scale starts moving around 1kg per cycle. And macros last week average is 120g protein, 360g carbs, 140g fats.
    Im more on the vegetarian/fish/plant based eating side, also doing some intermittent fasting couple times a week, but always look to reach calorie goal that day especially on workout days.

    Where can i improve current routine and nutrition to get my progress back on track?
    Should i increase calorie intake more, and on off days too?

    Thanks!
    you can dip 75kg for 12 no problem, but only bench 65kg for 8, interesting...

    Honestly nothing looks out of the ordinary. Your stats are kind of low. I would expect by now to be doing 75kg for 10 on squats, and odds are 70kg for 10 on bench.

    I would focus on getting the squat up, and add an extra set of dips.

    For squat why dont you try the 10 sets of 3 pattern for a few weeks to see how you like it. So its sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest, repeat till you miss a rep, then you end the session. If you get in all 10 sets you add 10% or what ever it takes to get you back down to 5-6 sets. You can start off with 75-80kg. The aim is to have you moving more than 1,120kg tonnage per squat session. Cuz hey, more volume = more growth.

    As for nutrition, switch to thinking in weekly calories/macros, not daily. So id try 3000x7, so 21,000 weekly calories. You can divide that up however you like with your intermittent fasting.
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  19. #6739
    Registered User polivoks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    you can dip 75kg for 12 no problem, but only bench 65kg for 8, interesting...

    Honestly nothing looks out of the ordinary. Your stats are kind of low. I would expect by now to be doing 75kg for 10 on squats, and odds are 70kg for 10 on bench.

    I would focus on getting the squat up, and add an extra set of dips.

    For squat why dont you try the 10 sets of 3 pattern for a few weeks to see how you like it. So its sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest, repeat till you miss a rep, then you end the session. If you get in all 10 sets you add 10% or what ever it takes to get you back down to 5-6 sets. You can start off with 75-80kg. The aim is to have you moving more than 1,120kg tonnage per squat session. Cuz hey, more volume = more growth.

    As for nutrition, switch to thinking in weekly calories/macros, not daily. So id try 3000x7, so 21,000 weekly calories. You can divide that up however you like with your intermittent fasting.

    Allright thanks! Yeah in August i was benching 5 reps of 3 sets 75kg, then months after that as i didnt had 2.5kg plates in temporary gym had to
    bench only 70kg, on average 6-5 reps. So hopefully if i manage to organise myself to go 3 workouts per week i will be back to 70kg soon.

    Will try this 10 sets of 3 squats, and report how it goes.
    It looks to me that 30 secs rest is just enough to place the bar back on rack have a short breath and then load the bar back
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  20. #6740
    Registered User HelpingHanding's Avatar
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    Hey, so I travel every week, so I have two gyms, effectively. I'm at home for 2 of the 3 workouts, as well as the ab workouts, which I'm doing a heavy and light day along with cardio, for a total of five days. The light days are going to be at my alternative gym near my work, which does have a squat rack and bench. It doesn't have the same calf press (or anything similar) to the one at my house.

    I assume the answer is no or it doesn't matter since calves are whatever, but is there any harm in moving the calf press to my abs/cardio day and just doing it 2x a week?
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  21. #6741
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HelpingHanding View Post
    Hey, so I travel every week, so I have two gyms, effectively. I'm at home for 2 of the 3 workouts, as well as the ab workouts, which I'm doing a heavy and light day along with cardio, for a total of five days. The light days are going to be at my alternative gym near my work, which does have a squat rack and bench. It doesn't have the same calf press (or anything similar) to the one at my house.

    I assume the answer is no or it doesn't matter since calves are whatever, but is there any harm in moving the calf press to my abs/cardio day and just doing it 2x a week?

    Doesnt matter. Calfs is cosmetic for the 1/3 of gen pop that cant grow with just the core workout. Some love their calf size already and skip them entirely. Hell i couldnt even handle 3x a week, else i would get massive leg cramps when i slept.

    So as long as over all weekly tonnage doesnt change, results will not change either.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Doesnt matter. Calfs is cosmetic for the 1/3 of gen pop that cant grow with just the core workout. Some love their calf size already and skip them entirely. Hell i couldnt even handle 3x a week, else i would get massive leg cramps when i slept.

    So as long as over all weekly tonnage doesnt change, results will not change either.
    Gotcha. I'll just do either that or two heavies for calves and do them on heavy day and the second ab day.
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    This looks like a great plan thanks for sharing!
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    Hi,

    Im starting my 3rd cycle. I still couldn't pass the overhead press.

    Before I was doing the barbell curl, so i decided I will start the upright row.

    So i start to look how to do it on youtube, and i can see a lot of people saying: Dont do this excercise because is bad for the shoulder.

    Today in my medium day, I got a little pain on my right shoulder. I'm just elevating the barbell to my nipple area, im using a z-bar, leading with the elbows, close to my body and with my hand a little bit more than shoulder width

    Any advice on this?

    Thanks
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IsmaK View Post
    Hi,

    Im starting my 3rd cycle. I still couldn't pass the overhead press.

    Before I was doing the barbell curl, so i decided I will start the upright row.

    So i start to look how to do it on youtube, and i can see a lot of people saying: Dont do this excercise because is bad for the shoulder.

    Today in my medium day, I got a little pain on my right shoulder. I'm just elevating the barbell to my nipple area, im using a z-bar, leading with the elbows, close to my body and with my hand a little bit more than shoulder width

    Any advice on this?

    Thanks
    Bar bell, tune grip width so that the rep naturally ends with elbows parallel to shoulder. If you do the elbow to ears version, yes that is the bad one that has your flossing your rotator cuff with your tendons.
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    Wanting to do like 2x 15-30 min of cardio a week to burn a bit of fat to keep myself leanish. Can I do this without interrupting my muscle gain?
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyprath View Post
    Wanting to do like 2x 15-30 min of cardio a week to burn a bit of fat to keep myself leanish. Can I do this without interrupting my muscle gain?
    Yup, the recommended cardio is 3x 10k jogs(aka 2 hours a week), and that is cutting and bulking.
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    [QUOTE=nightanole;1469242391]
    Originally Posted by 5penn View Post

    Yes. The concentric phase of the lift as short as possible with good form/bracing. If it takes you 1.5 seconds to rep out 100lbs, and 3 seconds to rep out 150lbs, Then you are applying the same amount of newtons to both, you didnt get stronger/applied more force, you just went slower.
    Just wanted to say a quick thanks for all the work you put into this thread. You have the patience of a saint!
    Take the red pill....
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    Thanks for your previous reply nightanole.
    As I mentioned I did starting strength for 5 months last year before recently switching to all pros. I put on a stone and a half on when on SS but lacked size gains in chest. My bench is 70kg for 5reps. I am now thinking of cutting as I’m getting married this year and the wife to be wants my belly gone! 🙈 would it be possible to still make newbie gains in the chest department when moving to a cut providing I try to keep increasing reps and weight?
    Thanks again!
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  30. #6750
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Screamingabdabs View Post
    Thanks for your previous reply nightanole.
    As I mentioned I did starting strength for 5 months last year before recently switching to all pros. I put on a stone and a half on when on SS but lacked size gains in chest. My bench is 70kg for 5reps. I am now thinking of cutting as I’m getting married this year and the wife to be wants my belly gone! would it be possible to still make newbie gains in the chest department when moving to a cut providing I try to keep increasing reps and weight?
    Thanks again!
    n00b gains are good till bmi24 for 10 reps. On the bright side at this stage its pretty easy to maintain on a cut, plus even if you lose a little chest, you will gain more definition and look bigger in photos.
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