AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[Vyprath]

Can I do incline db curls instead of the bb curls? I believe these put more time under tension on the muscle, they also feel better.

I also want to add in a tricep exercise, although less than one cycle in, what would you recommend I do for triceps?

Is my training or progress or whatever affected if I example, do my light day or any of my days after two days rest instead of one? For example gym-rest-gym-rest-rest-gym, is this happens on a weekly basis.

[nightanole]

Can I do incline db curls instead of the bb curls? I believe these put more time under tension on the muscle, they also feel better.

I also want to add in a tricep exercise, although less than one cycle in, what would you recommend I do for triceps?

Is my training or progress or whatever affected if I example, do my light day or any of my days after two days rest instead of one? For example gym-rest-gym-rest-rest-gym, is this happens on a weekly basis.

Max ROM in incline supenation curls, so go for them or any incline.

As for re arranging, the only rule is 72 hours rest before any heavy day. The rest of the days you can re arrange as much as your recovery will allow.

[Vyprath]

Max ROM in incline supenation curls, so go for them or any incline.

As for re arranging, the only rule is 72 hours rest before any heavy day. The rest of the days you can re arrange as much as your recovery will allow.

As in minimum recovery of 72 hours, or 72 hours no more or less.

Also I’m thinking of adding dips into my workout, what do you think, I want to grow my triceps.

[nightanole]

As in minimum recovery of 72 hours, or 72 hours no more or less.

Also I’m thinking of adding dips into my workout, what do you think, I want to grow my triceps.

minimum, you can do cardio during that time, but no HIIT or lifting related things.

And how do you know your triceps are not already maxed out on growth with just bench and OHP? This is the n00b linear progression phase of your life. You want to add max weight to the least amount of exercises, and do the least amount of volume per week. Any additional unneeded volume means less progression on the core lifts. Once linear progression runs its course, then you start adding dips or skull crushers, because you can no longer just add weight to a fixed amount of reps and sets, you need additional volume to progress.

Its like a tanning booth. At first you just need a wee bit of light, and can tan daily. Then at some point the light starts to burn from intensity, so you increase duration. Then at some point you cant go daily and have to rotate in other methods.

[Time-Man]

Hi nightanole . Couple observations and questions if you don't mind. When i started with this program in June i was 104kg which put me on a 26.5 BMI (main goal when i started was to loose my gut and over all body fat ) i started low with my weights and it has gone up steady , except for 2 months that i basically reset my weights to starting weight because of a pinched nerve in my neck that caused me to loose all power in my right side . My bench dropped from 57kg's back to 15 kg that i battled my ass off to lift . But I took chiro's advice and slowly regained my strength without pushing to hard so bench is back on 48kg's . And currently standing on 91kg body weight and BMI of 23.2 .

What i have come to realize is my protein intake is WAY below par and that is something i'm going to work on in the new year , read a lot about it and will be aiming to get 200g protein per day and see if i'll be able to build better muscle , guess this last 6 months i managed to cut a lot of fat yet according to the measuring tape only place i lost size was on my belly and hips , the rest , arms chest , legs , calves stayed the same or have gone up a little bit . So hopefully with the right amount of protein i'll make better growth this year coming .

Then what is the % that the lifts should differ from each other ? How much lighter would bench be than squat , and Rowing compared to squat or bench , and overhead press compared to bench and squat ? If it's possible to have a idea the difference between the lifts ?

My squat is not to bad as it has consistently gone up , although now at a 100kg it's brutal so much so i have dropped the 2 sets 8-12 reps on my heavy day and gone down to the 3 sets 4-8 reps my way of thinking is to finish this cycle then repeat next cycle but try to go for the 2 sets 8-12 reps ,( medium and light day i still do 2 sets 8-12 reps ) , will this be ok ? Maybe doing this will allow my bench and overhead press to catch up ?

Also i battled with my squat form and couldn't figure out why , watched a ton on videos and tutorials and from that changed from high bar squat to low bar squat and guess due to my build ( i'm 1.99m tall ) the low bar squat i have better control over the weight , is this a problem ?

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole . Couple observations and questions if you don't mind. When i started with this program in June i was 104kg which put me on a 26.5 BMI (main goal when i started was to loose my gut and over all body fat ) i started low with my weights and it has gone up steady , except for 2 months that i basically reset my weights to starting weight because of a pinched nerve in my neck that caused me to loose all power in my right side . My bench dropped from 57kg's back to 15 kg that i battled my ass off to lift . But I took chiro's advice and slowly regained my strength without pushing to hard so bench is back on 48kg's . And currently standing on 91kg body weight and BMI of 23.2 .

What i have come to realize is my protein intake is WAY below par and that is something i'm going to work on in the new year , read a lot about it and will be aiming to get 200g protein per day and see if i'll be able to build better muscle , guess this last 6 months i managed to cut a lot of fat yet according to the measuring tape only place i lost size was on my belly and hips , the rest , arms chest , legs , calves stayed the same or have gone up a little bit . So hopefully with the right amount of protein i'll make better growth this year coming .

Then what is the % that the lifts should differ from each other ? How much lighter would bench be than squat , and Rowing compared to squat or bench , and overhead press compared to bench and squat ? If it's possible to have a idea the difference between the lifts ?

My squat is not to bad as it has consistently gone up , although now at a 100kg it's brutal so much so i have dropped the 2 sets 8-12 reps on my heavy day and gone down to the 3 sets 4-8 reps my way of thinking is to finish this cycle then repeat next cycle but try to go for the 2 sets 8-12 reps ,( medium and light day i still do 2 sets 8-12 reps ) , will this be ok ? Maybe doing this will allow my bench and overhead press to catch up ?

Also i battled with my squat form and couldn't figure out why , watched a ton on videos and tutorials and from that changed from high bar squat to low bar squat and guess due to my build ( i'm 1.99m tall ) the low bar squat i have better control over the weight , is this a problem ?

As far as percentages:

Squat should be 125-150% of bench
OHP should be within 60% of bench
Row should be within +-20% of bench
SLDL should be less than squat

You are now getting a bit under weight. To reach 10 reps of bmi24 bench, and 1.25-1.5x squat, you will need to be at bmi 24, or even bmi 25 and need a mini cut while maintaining the lifts.

For squat its recomended to do high bar, because its more quad centric, however if you are a natural low bar, go for it. Some of us just have that natural rut in our backs for the bar, some of us call it the meat pocket. If you do switch to low bar, you may want to start hunting around for a quad accessory in the future.

[Vyprath]

With the BOR, should I be pulling the bar below my belly button, to activate my lats, or should I pull above to active more of the mid back?

[nightanole]

With the BOR, should I be pulling the bar below my belly button, to activate my lats, or should I pull above to active more of the mid back?

Keep it simple, hit the same spot(or slightly below) you hit when you bench. Odds are you can even use the same grip width.

[Vyprath]

Tonight I felt very weak, got all my reps and sets for everything except OHP, could barely get the first set done but I did, but on the second ser I couldn’t even do one rep. I then tried doing it with 20kg and couldn’t hit one rep.

I’m currently on the second week of cycle one, OHP is at 25kg

P.S has no problems getting two sets of 8 reps last week. I think I just didn’t eat enough maybe, Christmas junk.

[swpz]

week 1 should be 2 reps in the tank, if you "just" got out 8 reps, the program will bury you in fatigue by 10 rep week. So i would adjust those weights.

Yes they program is not meant to wipe you out. This is a fatigue buildup routine that you are not allowed to recover from. With ideal weights its impossible to do 3 heavies a week, and with the ideal weights medium day should require the most effort.

If you are missing reps on weeks 1-3, you picked the wrong weights, or its a diet problem.

Figuring to update you and to thank you for your help.

I'm currently in week 4, what I did was dropped some weights on the squats/deadlift (about 5 pounds on each) but kept weights on all else. I only used a 10% drop for Friday and kept Monday and Wednesday at full weight with 1(2) warm-up sets depending on how tired I was. Hitting 11 reps this week without any issue and feeling pretty good overall afterwards. Seems like I was just very out of shape at the start; by the time I got into the 10 rep week was feeling great. As for results, I guess it's only been a month but starting to feel like that muscle I lost over years of not taking care of myself has been rebuilding. So it's week 5 next then weight increase.

Given what you've said though I don't think I'm using ideal weights as I'm not quite irrecoverably killed so I'll slowly adjust to see what kicks 2 weeks from now when I increase.

Thanks again mate.

[nightanole]

Tonight I felt very weak, got all my reps and sets for everything except OHP, could barely get the first set done but I did, but on the second ser I couldn’t even do one rep. I then tried doing it with 20kg and couldn’t hit one rep.

I’m currently on the second week of cycle one, OHP is at 25kg

P.S has no problems getting two sets of 8 reps last week. I think I just didn’t eat enough maybe, Christmas junk.

reset like 25%. First cycle is the easiest cycle of your life. if you are struggling at all the weight is way to heavy. Worst case you start way to light and can bump 20-25% for 2 cycles straight. That is alot better vs failing for 2 cycles and beating yourself up with missed reps.

[Time-Man]

As far as percentages:

Squat should be 125-150% of bench
OHP should be within 60% of bench
Row should be within +-20% of bench
SLDL should be less than squat

Trying to make a excell spreadsheet that i can just enter current values and then based on this it should give me values for my lifts to give me something to work towards . Does this sound right ? That is the values i should be hitting to be balanced ?
On the 125% of Bench
Squat 100
Bench 44
OHP 27
BOR 35
SLDL 90

On the 150% of bench
Squat 100
Bench 40
OHP 27
BOR 35
SLDL 90

On a different thread i read values to eventually aim for should be
2 plate bench
3 plate squat
4 plate deadlift

And if i use formulas my values will look like this
Squat 100
Bench 71
DL 129
OHP 43
BOR 57
SLDL 90

[nightanole]

Trying to make a excell spreadsheet that i can just enter current values and then based on this it should give me values for my lifts to give me something to work towards . Does this sound right ? That is the values i should be hitting to be balanced ?
On the 125% of Bench
Squat 100
Bench 44
OHP 27
BOR 35
SLDL 90

On the 150% of bench
Squat 100
Bench 40
OHP 27
BOR 35
SLDL 90

On a different thread i read values to eventually aim for should be
2 plate bench
3 plate squat
4 plate deadlift

And if i use formulas my values will look like this
Squat 100
Bench 71
DL 129
OHP 43
BOR 57
SLDL 90

Im not sure which new math you are using. If your bench is 40, then squat would be 50-60. If your bench was 70, your squat should be 87.5-105. Ending stats for alpro are 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squat, and a bmi of 24@13%.

The 1/2/3/4 for 2 reps is what a healthy young male achieves in a year on a foot ball program, with a body weight of 180-200lbs. My "formula" scales to bmi24@13%, and allpro is not a 1 year program, so ending stats are going to be 10-15% lower.

If you want some more measurements:
http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

Just ignore deadlift(noobs will never have a deadlift that close to a squat anyway). "strong" is that magic 1/2/3/4, and very strong is mid intermediate.

[Time-Man]

As far as percentages:

Squat should be 125-150% of bench
OHP should be within 60% of bench
Row should be within +-20% of bench
SLDL should be less than squat

Im not sure which new math you are using. If your bench is 40, then squat would be 50-60. If your bench was 70, your squat should be 87.5-105. Ending stats for alpro are 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squat, and a bmi of 24@13%.

Sry now i am a little bit confused according to what i asked higher up i just wanted to put that into my excell spreadsheet to figure out how i am doing comparing my lifts and seeing where i'm falling short and used those figures you gave me and using that :

If bench is 40 and squat is 150% more than bench then my squat should be 40+150% therefore 100?
And OHP 60% of bench so 40-40% is 24 ?
And row within 20% of bench so 40-20% is 32

Or if i work it the other way around (this is how i made the spreadsheet , that based on the % you gave me i can enter a lift and according to those % it gives me where my other lifts should be )
Not being a smartass i just thought it would be a nice way for myself to work and then be able to input for example my squat figure and then see where my other lifts are supposed to be

[nightanole]

Sry now i am a little bit confused according to what i asked higher up i just wanted to put that into my excell spreadsheet to figure out how i am doing comparing my lifts and seeing where i'm falling short and used those figures you gave me and using that :

If bench is 40 and squat is 150% more than bench then my squat should be 40+150% therefore 100?
And OHP 60% of bench so 40-40% is 24 ?
And row within 20% of bench so 40-20% is 32

Or if i work it the other way around (this is how i made the spreadsheet , that based on the % you gave me i can enter a lift and according to those % it gives me where my other lifts should be )
Not being a smartass i just thought it would be a nice way for myself to work and then be able to input for example my squat figure and then see where my other lifts are supposed to be

Well i would start off your spread sheet with goal numbers relative to bmi 24 and go from there to see which lift is farthest off course.

ill try to help with some more examples so you can get the math.

bench is 40
40 *1.25 = 50. That is the same as having a squat that is 125% of your bench.

bench is 40
40 *.6 = 24. This is the min (60% of bench) that your OHP should be.

You can also go backwards

Your squat is 100. now find the reciprocal of 125% and 150%.

100 * .8 = 80 This is your bench weight if your bench is 125% of your squat
100 *.6667= 66.67 This is your bench weight if your bench is 150% of your squat

[Time-Man]

Well i would start off your spread sheet with goal numbers relative to bmi 24 and go from there to see which lift is farthest off course.

ill try to help with some more examples so you can get the math.

bench is 40
40 *1.25 = 50. That is the same as having a squat that is 125% of your bench.

bench is 40
40 *.6 = 24. This is the min (60% of bench) that your OHP should be.

You can also go backwards

Your squat is 100. now find the reciprocal of 125% and 150%.

100 * .8 = 80 This is your bench weight if your bench is 125% of your squat
100 *.6667= 66.67 This is your bench weight if your bench is 150% of your squat

Fantastic !! That was what i needed thank you !! And once again thank you for taking the time to help, motivate and share your knowledge with us !!

[Vyprath]

I got a few problems here.

1. When doing BOR I don’t seem to feel a contraction or fatigue in my back.

2. When doing bent over rows and SLDL or even just twisting my left wrist so my palm faces the ceiling, I get a sharp pain a couple inches up from my wrist.

3. When I raise my left shoulder, mimicking a front shoulder raise with palms facing behind me I get pain along the left side of my trap and neck.

[nightanole]

I got a few problems here.

1. When doing BOR I don’t seem to feel a contraction or fatigue in my back.

2. When doing bent over rows and SLDL or even just twisting my left wrist so my palm faces the ceiling, I get a sharp pain a couple inches up from my wrist.

3. When I raise my left shoulder, mimicking a front shoulder raise with palms facing behind me I get pain along the left side of my trap and neck.

1) even if you are just curling it to you, thats not going to move the elbow... So you are using your back.

2-3) this honestly sounds like you are trying to curl it towards you (all brachi aka forearm/bicep) either the entire time, or when you get tired.


For now you need to change your grip, so if you are doing palms down, switch to palms up. Or if you can get in 2 sets of 10 for chinups some how and can make a make shift weight belt, you can switch to chinups or pullups.

In a real pinch you can switch to kroc rows (dumbell rests on ground each rep) or tbar rows (so you change your grip) and some type of core work such as a farmer carry/walk.

[Vyprath]

1) even if you are just curling it to you, thats not going to move the elbow... So you are using your back.

2-3) this honestly sounds like you are trying to curl it towards you (all brachi aka forearm/bicep) either the entire time, or when you get tired.


For now you need to change your grip, so if you are doing palms down, switch to palms up. Or if you can get in 2 sets of 10 for chinups some how and can make a make shift weight belt, you can switch to chinups or pullups.

In a real pinch you can switch to kroc rows (dumbell rests on ground each rep) or tbar rows (so you change your grip) and some type of core work such as a farmer carry/walk.

What do you think I hurt my shoulder/neck on? I feel like it could of been from the SLDL than I was somehow holding the weight with my neck, it’s like a sharp long narrow pain in my neck.

[nightanole]

What do you think I hurt my shoulder/neck on? I feel like it could of been from the SLDL than I was somehow holding the weight with my neck, it’s like a sharp long narrow pain in my neck.

Generally that is a slightly stretched tendon. That is normally caused by slowly compromising form as you get tired. I have no idea which exercise caused it, and even the exercise that hurts the most, might be revealing it but not causing it. We have had people with lower back problems "from the SLDL" but in reality it was bad squat form that was tiring out the spinal erectors. So i do not know what is causing the neck pain.

For experiments sake, do you want to try some bent knee inverted rows just to loosen things up? Your back/neck are not normally exposed to that type of movement, and it may help. Maybe 1 set to semi failure before you start each workout for a few weeks.

[billp392]

This is great. Thanks for this.

[Vyprath]

In terms of adding a single tricep accesory, what would you recommend? I was thinking either body weight dips or a weighted dip machine, prefer the machine as I feel it more in the tris.

[nightanole]

In terms of adding a single tricep accesory, what would you recommend? I was thinking either body weight dips or a weighted dip machine, prefer the machine as I feel it more in the tris.

Those are great, as is a skull crusher with lots of eblow movement(hits the long head more).

[Vyprath]

During squats my left knee hurt quite bad, this was during the second working set, I had to bail out half way through because of the pain and risk of further injury. I have been battling on and off knee pain since I started squatting. I don’t know what to do.

[nightanole]

During squats my left knee hurt quite bad, this was during the second working set, I had to bail out half way through because of the pain and risk of further injury. I have been battling on and off knee pain since I started squatting. I don’t know what to do.

If the pain is not in the back of the knee, try switching to box squats, it takes the knee out of the equation for the most part. If the pain is in the back of the knee, you are hyperextending at the top.

[Vyprath]

If the pain is not in the back of the knee, try switching to box squats, it takes the knee out of the equation for the most part. If the pain is in the back of the knee, you are hyperextending at the top.

As bad as it sounds I don’t really want to do any other type of squat. Do you know of any accurate ways to track my weight gain so I can aim for 1.2kg a month?

[nightanole]

As bad as it sounds I don’t really want to do any other type of squat. Do you know of any accurate ways to track my weight gain so I can aim for 1.2kg a month?

Pick 2-3 times a week, at the same time, to measure. So this could be monday when you wake up, sunday morning after pizza/salt night, and weds when you get home from work. Each one of those is going to give a wide range in relation to each other, but all 3 will be slowly going up or down. So then just make a spread sheet and have a column for each measurement day.

You can also have just 1 measurement day a week, if you have a consistent sched. If you just randomly go out to eat, the next day you may have an additional 5lbs of water weight, like wise if you walked in the sun at an amusement park the whole day, you might have lost 5lbs of water weight.

[SuffolkPunch]

Note to people using this thread - please do not post your own routine 'for critique' here - or anything else that is off topic. Thank you.

[Screamingabdabs]

Hey, newbie here.
Expecting to get replies of “stick to the programme” for this but could I possibly change the first 4 exercises (sqaut, bench, Rows and OHP’s to 6-10 reps instead of 8-12 thus adding a little strength based training to the programme or would this hinder the main goal that is hypertrophy? Being doing this programme for one cycle now after switching from Starting Strength and I’m finding the 12 reps are killing me although I suppose I’m still recovering from a serious bout of Man Flu.
Cheers for any replies, Abdabs.

[peanutbutter42]

Hey, newbie here.
Expecting to get replies of “stick to the programme” for this but could I possibly change the first 4 exercises (sqaut, bench, Rows and OHP’s to 6-10 reps instead of 8-12 thus adding a little strength based training to the programme or would this hinder the main goal that is hypertrophy? Being doing this programme for one cycle now after switching from Starting Strength and I’m finding the 12 reps are killing me although I suppose I’m still recovering from a serious bout of Man Flu.
Cheers for any replies, Abdabs.

Im in a similar boat as this dude. The difference is I want to do 3 sets of 1-6 reps for a more beginner powerlifting approach.