AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[Vyprath]

So currently eating 300 calories above maintenance which should make me gain around 1kg per month. After the full 6 cycles should I then cut for a month or so?

[nightanole]

So currently eating 300 calories above maintenance which should make me gain around 1kg per month. After the full 6 cycles should I then cut for a month or so?

yup. My have to adjust calories as needed. Ive thrown 300 cals a people, and it just made them more hyper during the day, so they just burned most of it off, but hey performance improved.

[superbboy]

did you know any android apps for beginners?

[generous88]

So, I was doing the heavy day..week 2 cycle 1. I did 2 warm up sets for Squatting, 1st heavy set and at the 2nd heavy set, 1st rep, I injured my lower back (later knew it was the IS Joint) and it felt really bad. Now I have been resting for 2 weeks and it feels fine again, I want to get back to exercising but I am not trusting doing squats with heavy weights again. Is there any alternative? Like lighter weights with more reps or so? Thanks!

[nightanole]

So, I was doing the heavy day..week 2 cycle 1. I did 2 warm up sets for Squatting, 1st heavy set and at the 2nd heavy set, 1st rep, I injured my lower back (later knew it was the IS Joint) and it felt really bad. Now I have been resting for 2 weeks and it feels fine again, I want to get back to exercising but I am not trusting doing squats with heavy weights again. Is there any alternative? Like lighter weights with more reps or so? Thanks!

10 reps of the bar
add 10-20lbs, do 3 reps
if feels fine, add 10-20lbs, do 3 reps
repeat till working weight
if it doesnt feel fine, stop, and try again next session. You dont have to rest between sets.

If its a muscle pull you want to "heal in motion" which means doing unloaded or very lightly loaded reps, even if you are in "slight" pain as long as the pain is not increasing. Some power lifting coaches have you doing ultra high reps till you are white in the face(100-200 good mornings of the bar with a lower back injury), but im not that masochistic.

[cljolley]

Hey Night, this may be a silly thing to ask but:
As I said I kinda fell off the wagon and was not lifting at all for about a month. I did the same thing about 2 years ago. I would get on a program and lift consistently for two or three months and although I definitely noticed small changes in muscle mass it obviously wasn’t anything to write home about. HERES MY CONCERN. Will doing that or having done that sort of “negate” my noob gains? Say for instance I gained about 4 or 5 pounds of muscle, probably less, then lost it...then a couple years later gained it back, then lost it.

I really would hate to have screwed my self over if that’s the case.
I know during your “noob phase” it’s much more possible to lose fat while gaining muscle as well which would help me also because I carry a tad of belly fat but almost none anywhere else. It wouldn’t make sense to start off on a cut, but I don’t wanna get a gut at the beginning of my bulk.
Anyway that was a bit long winded. Sorry. Any tips much appreciated!
Edit- I obviously still want to commit to training. I’m not saying I’m just gonna continue being wishy-washy. I’m just wondering if I’ve already screwed myself up.

[nightanole]

Hey Night, this may be a silly thing to ask but:
As I said I kinda fell off the wagon and was not lifting at all for about a month. I did the same thing about 2 years ago. I would get on a program and lift consistently for two or three months and although I definitely noticed small changes in muscle mass it obviously wasn’t anything to write home about. HERES MY CONCERN. Will doing that or having done that sort of “negate” my noob gains? Say for instance I gained about 4 or 5 pounds of muscle, probably less, then lost it...then a couple years later gained it back, then lost it.
I really would hate to have screwed my self over if that’s the case.
I know during your “noob phase” it’s much more possible to lose fat while gaining muscle as well which would help me also because I carry a tad of belly fat but almost none anywhere else. It wouldn’t make sense to start off on a cut, but I don’t wanna get a gut at the beginning of my bulk.
Anyway that was a bit long winded. Sorry. Any tips much appreciated!

Zero effect.

Say you have 30lbs of lifetime gainz

half of that will be n00b in the first 12-18 months
then you will gain half of what is left in 12-18 months
then half of whats left again

till about 6-8 years in where yearly changes are measured in ounces.

If you "detrain", it comes back quicker, not slower. Some people refer to it as "muscle memory".

[cljolley]

Zero effect.

Say you have 30lbs of lifetime gainz

half of that will be n00b in the first 12-18 months
then you will gain half of what is left in 12-18 months
then half of whats left again

till about 6-8 years in where yearly changes are measured in ounces.

If you "detrain", it comes back quicker, not slower. Some people refer to it as "muscle memory".

Interesting. And would this also apply to the whole losing fat while gaining muscle theory as well?

[nightanole]

Interesting. And would this also apply to the whole losing fat while gaining muscle theory as well?

Nope.

2-3 biggest pit falls of n00bs are:

"i just want to get as strong as possible at my current weight"
"i want to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time"
"i want to increase my bmi while decreasing or maintaining my body fat percentage"

None of those things are possible for a natural lifter. As a natural you must always be going up or down .5-1kg per month/cycle. There is a goldilocks time where you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but it is very very brief, only a few months.


Gain "weight" at 1/4-1/3 the rate you can "lose weight" at without your lifts/performance going down. So if you can lose 3lbs a week and lifts dont turn to crap, you could also bulk at 1lb a week. However if even a 2lb a week cut causes decreased performance, you better not be bulking at more than .5kg per month. You should be spending 2/3-3/4 of the year bulking, once you reach that 13%, for the rest of your life.

[cljolley]

Nope.

2-3 biggest pit falls of n00bs are:

"i just want to get as strong as possible at my current weight"
"i want to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time"
"i want to increase my bmi while decreasing or maintaining my body fat percentage"

None of those things are possible for a natural lifter. As a natural you must always be going up or down .5-1kg per month/cycle. There is a goldilocks time where you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but it is very very brief, only a few months.


Gain "weight" at 1/4-1/3 the rate you can "lose weight" at without your lifts/performance going down. So if you can lose 3lbs a week and lifts dont turn to crap, you could also bulk at 1lb a week. However if even a 2lb a week cut causes decreased performance, you better not be bulking at more than .5kg per month. You should be spending 2/3-3/4 of the year bulking, once you reach that 13%, for the rest of your life.

I see. I was aware that the gain muscle/lose fat thing only lasted a short while if at all. In the grand scheme of things I suppose it’s not important. Just would be nice to shave some belly fat without cutting. It just rolls up a tad when I’m sitting or hunched. I’m by no means fat. Probably wouldn’t even consider myself skinny fat. Well as always you’ve been very helpful and informative. Thanks!

[rlefebvr]

Have have question in the same vain.

Would you cut during a reset. Does that make sense.

[nightanole]

Have have question in the same vain.

Would you cut during a reset. Does that make sense.

Doesnt matter if its during a reset or at the end of a peak. A cut should only be 6-8 weeks, 2-3 times a year. Cut 5-10lbs, bulk up 2.5-5lbs, rinse repeat. In fact you might need more calories for a reset, because weekly tonnage goes up alot on a greyskull or any other AMRAP reset.

[cljolley]

Doesnt matter if its during a reset or at the end of a peak. A cut should only be 6-8 weeks, 2-3 times a year. Cut 5-10lbs, bulk up 2.5-5lbs, rinse repeat. In fact you might need more calories for a reset, because weekly tonnage goes up alot on a greyskull or any other AMRAP reset.

Night I’ve been looking into the grey skull program since you told me I was already halfway done with the Allpro. Could you explain how the reset works?

Also how can Itake the Allpro program and make it more an intermediate program? I mea. utilize the exercises in a more intermediate based fashion?

[nightanole]

Night I’ve been looking into the grey skull program since you told me I was already halfway done with the Allpro. Could you explain how the reset works?

Also how can Itake the Allpro program and make it more an intermediate program? I mea. utilize the exercises in a more intermediate based fashion?

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1565893521

Greyskull is a 2-3 year program, vs 3x5 or 5x5 which is a 9-12 month program.

Or you can use the allpro lifts in this fashion:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...1&pagenumber=1


On greyskull a "reset" is when you drop the weight 10% after ONE failure to get 5 reps on the AMRAP set.

So you would be something like:
110x5
110x5
110x4

This is 1540lbs of volume tonnage.

Then you reset:
100x5
100x5
100x8

This is 1800lbs of volume tonnage. a volume increase of 17%. And the #1 promoter of growth, is volume increases. That is assuming it was a true failure and you where not having a bad day. If it was just a false test, then the next session that AMRAP set could be 10-12 reps, which would trigger a double weight bump vs the normal 2.5lbs, and a volume increase of 25% in some cases.

[cljolley]

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1565893521

Greyskull is a 2-3 year program, vs 3x5 or 5x5 which is a 9-12 month program.

Or you can use the allpro lifts in this fashion:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...1&pagenumber=1


On greyskull a "reset" is when you drop the weight 10% after ONE failure to get 5 reps on the AMRAP set.

So you would be something like:
110x5
110x5
110x4

This is 1540lbs of volume tonnage.

Then you reset:
100x5
100x5
100x8

This is 1800lbs of volume tonnage. a volume increase of 17%. And the #1 promoter of growth, is volume increases. That is assuming it was a true failure and you where not having a bad day. If it was just a false test, then the next session that AMRAP set could be 10-12 reps, which would trigger a double weight bump vs the normal 2.5lbs, and a volume increase of 25% in some cases.

Where can I find the actual program "write up" for the greyskull pattern so I can work in the allpro exercises into it. I really love the lifts in this program because they require nothing that I dont already own.

Would this just be 2 sets of 5, one set AMRAP 5+ for each exercise in Allpro?
I am only vaguely familiar with the greyskull pattern and cannot seem to find something very descriptive short of buying the book online.

[nightanole]

Where can I find the actual program "write up" for the greyskull pattern so I can work in the allpro exercises into it. I really love the lifts in this program because they require nothing that I dont already own.

Would this just be 2 sets of 5, one set AMRAP 5+ for each exercise in Allpro?
I am only vaguely familiar with the greyskull pattern and cannot seem to find something very descriptive short of buying the book online.

https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/greyskull-lp/

In order to "greyskull" allpro you have to create an AB or ABC template that doesnt have you doing the same movement 2 sessions in a row. I made a quick and dirty AB. Using the AB you are still performing the lift 3 times every 2 weeks. If you want a more "pure" grey skull you should be squatting twice a week, but missing 1 squat session every 2 weeks is not a life changer.

A:
Bench
squat
Row
Incline Curl
land mine jammers (either single or 2 handed), or some other incline push you can progress at

B:
OHP or arnold press
SLDL (or touch and go RDL)
upright row or skull crushers
Some other type of row you can progress on such as kroc rows
farmer carries (enough weight to only be able to carry 30m-50m, 3 sets)

[cljolley]

https://www.powerliftingtowin.com/greyskull-lp/

In order to "greyskull" allpro you have to create an AB or ABC template that doesnt have you doing the same movement 2 sessions in a row. I made a quick and dirty AB. Using the AB you are still performing the lift 3 times every 2 weeks. If you want a more "pure" grey skull you should be squatting twice a week, but missing 1 squat session every 2 weeks is not a life changer.

A:
Bench
squat
Row
Incline Curl
land mine jammers (either single or 2 handed), or some other incline push you can progress at

B:
OHP or arnold press
SLDL (or touch and go RDL)
upright row or skull crushers
Some other type of row you can progress on such as kroc rows
farmer carries (enough weight to only be able to carry 30m-50m, 3 sets)

I suppose just following the normal greyskull program would be fine too huh?

[nightanole]

I suppose just following the normal greyskull program would be fine too huh?

If you pick the right plug ins. /fit variant is better than phraks.

[Time-Man]

Hi nightanole . How critical is the resting times between sets ? Reason i'm asking i train with my son as a training partner , first he does a set then i do a set so between my sets waiting for him to finish his is more than a min sometimes , also depending if he want to stand around and talk before he does his set (gets me worked up when he wastes time ) but i don't want to be too militaristic as i want him to enjoy training so that i can install a love for the lifestyle for years to come

[cljolley]

If you pick the right plug ins. /fit variant is better than phraks.

Where can I find these specific plug ins?
The CrossFit variant I found says 1 lift per day...?
And what’s wrong with Phrak variant?

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole . How critical is the resting times between sets ? Reason i'm asking i train with my son as a training partner , first he does a set then i do a set so between my sets waiting for him to finish his is more than a min sometimes , also depending if he want to stand around and talk before he does his set (gets me worked up when he wastes time ) but i don't want to be too militaristic as i want him to enjoy training so that i can install a love for the lifestyle for years to come

Rest times are up to 90 seconds. You may be able to push that out to 120 or what ever, but its critical that every heavy day and test day to be the same amount.

The reason for the 90 seconds is the "quality reps". I do not have time to dig back the last few months to find my quality reps explanation with the link to the science. Basically The first set has a lot of junk volume, but due to the short rest, the second set has almost no junk volume. This makes the 2 sets as "effective" as doing the 3 sets of 5 with 3-5min rests.

[nightanole]

Where can I find these specific plug ins?
The CrossFit variant I found says 1 lift per day...?
And what’s wrong with Phrak variant?

too far off topic. The book as all the plugins, so you can run it as foot ball, body building, endurance, etc.

Phrak just pulled his variant out of his arse. He never even ran it, he used it as a sub for his massive calisthenics routine he does. He never even had a 2 plate squat working weight.

[cljolley]

too far off topic. The book as all the plugins, so you can run it as foot ball, body building, endurance, etc.

Phrak just pulled his variant out of his arse. He never even ran it, he used it as a sub for his massive calisthenics routine he does. He never even had a 2 plate squat working weight.

Ok my bad. I found the book on PDF. I’ll read through it.

[nightanole]

Ok my bad. I found the book on PDF. I’ll read through it.

/fit + arms plugin +hillsprints/farmer carries/prowlers should be enough to last you the rest of your life. At worst you may have to pick a new variant of the squat/bench/row every couple of months to avoid repeat bout injuries.

[cljolley]

/fit + arms plugin +hillsprints/farmer carries/prowlers should be enough to last you the rest of your life. At worst you may have to pick a new variant of the squat/bench/row every couple of months to avoid repeat bout injuries.

Neither the arms or CrossFit plugin are in the book.
I know you said it’s getting off topic but I can’t find the /fit plug in anywhere.

[nightanole]

Neither the arms or CrossFit plugin are in the book.
I know you said it’s getting off topic but I can’t find the /fit plug in anywhere.

[cljolley]

Cool. Sorry for sidetracking the thread. Thanks!

[cljolley]

Okay, Im starting my "reboot" cycle tomorrow. Im going to start back on a normal cycle then move to autoregulated after the first cycle completion. What Im stuck on though is this: during my little over a month stint of not lifting I was not very active, drinking a fair bit, and altogether being a lazy couch potato. I developed a bit of fat in the waist/belly area. I do not carry fat anywhere else hardly at all though. Should I maybe start this first cycle on a cut? Can I still gain muscle on a conservative cutting phase? I really wanna start adding mass again, but I dont want to gain anymore flab...I can post a picture if it helps. I may be blowing this out of proportion or at least my girlfriend seems to think so, but when I sit down or hunch over it rolls up a bit...

Anyways I have never cut before so I dont really know the ins and outs of how my lifts will still progress or gaining mass while cutting if thats even possible.

[nightanole]

Okay, Im starting my "reboot" cycle tomorrow. Im going to start back on a normal cycle then move to autoregulated after the first cycle completion. What Im stuck on though is this: during my little over a month stint of not lifting I was not very active, drinking a fair bit, and altogether being a lazy couch potato. I developed a bit of fat in the waist/belly area. I do not carry fat anywhere else hardly at all though. Should I maybe start this first cycle on a cut? Can I still gain muscle on a conservative cutting phase? I really wanna start adding mass again, but I dont want to gain anymore flab...I can post a picture if it helps. I may be blowing this out of proportion or at least my girlfriend seems to think so, but when I sit down or hunch over it rolls up a bit...

Anyways I have never cut before so I dont really know the ins and outs of how my lifts will still progress or gaining mass while cutting if thats even possible.

If you fell off the wagon, your cns and conditioning will have suffered, alot. However it takes months and months to lose even a few pounds of muscle.

As always, cut till things get hard, then re evaluate. You may find you need to up the cardio and the calories at the same time to perform, and still lose weight/fat. The trick is to find that magic spot of a caloric deficit, where you are eating enough to perform, but active enough that you are burning fat.

People tend to fail a cut when they reduce nutrition to the point where they can no longer perform. The one that succeed tend to keep fats/protein the same, and adjust carbs and cardio. It could be as simple as going from a bulk with 20min of cardio and 300g of carbs, to a cut of 200g of carbs and 1 hour of daily cardio. That would be all it takes to change from a 200 cal surplus to a 400 cal deficit. Hell you could wake up at 5-6am on sat, briskly walk till noon, and that would be over half your caloric deficit for the week.

[cljolley]

If you fell off the wagon, your cns and conditioning will have suffered, alot. However it takes months and months to lose even a few pounds of muscle.

As always, cut till things get hard, then re evaluate. You may find you need to up the cardio and the calories at the same time to perform, and still lose weight/fat. The trick is to find that magic spot of a caloric deficit, where you are eating enough to perform, but active enough that you are burning fat.

People tend to fail a cut when they reduce nutrition to the point where they can no longer perform. The one that succeed tend to keep fats/protein the same, and adjust carbs and cardio. It could be as simple as going from a bulk with 20min of cardio and 300g of carbs, to a cut of 200g of carbs and 1 hour of daily cardio. That would be all it takes to change from a 200 cal surplus to a 400 cal deficit. Hell you could wake up at 5-6am on sat, briskly walk till noon, and that would be over half your caloric deficit for the week.

I dont think I have lost any muscle mass. I was slow bulking when I fell off the wagon, and then my diet suffered after the fact as well. So even though my main goal is GAINING weight, you still think I should cut until my lifts are not progressing? Is that my cue to start bulking again; when my lifts start to suffer?
How much should I be aiming to lose how quickly? And what is the typical deficit amount when working this program?
Also since I am still very much in the noob phase, can I expect to still be gaining muscle at least at a slower rate on a small deficit/cut?