AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Hello everyone I am new to this forum.
Allpro's progression of 10% per 4 reps is pretty backed up. More specifically,

Epleys formula predicts a 10.5% increase by going from 8 to 12 reps.
Bryzcki's predicts a 16% increase.
McGlothin's a 15.4% increase.
Wathna's predicts a 10.8% increase.

So I was wondering why do we start again at 8 reps when we reach 12.
Since 12 reps are mostly equivalent to 8 reps of +10% weight, it would make sense to start the next week from 9 reps.

CNS adaptation and a mini deload, since allpro doesnt have a deload protocol. You will notice in the lit there is zero mention of 10% resets etc.

But your math is right, if you can do 2 sets of 12 reps 100%, you can also do 1 set of 10 reps at 110% , and 2 sets of 9 at 110%.

[DemonInAJar]

Yea ok that makes sense.

I am in cycle 2 currently and I really like this program but I am kind of skeptical about the very slow
progression rate. I understand that this is a bodybuilding program but I was wondering if I am making a mistake
by not doing strength training before following a bodybuilding routine.

[nightanole]

Yea ok that makes sense.

I am in cycle 2 currently and I really like this program but I am kind of skeptical about the very slow
progression rate. I understand that this is a bodybuilding program but I was wondering if I am making a mistake
by not doing strength training before following a bodybuilding routine.

Its not a low progression rate. The absolute min for the program pattern to work is 10% bumps. Some double the squat working weight in 3-4 cycles just by learning the lift. If you want to do say a 20% bump, then on light day of test week do 1 set of 10 with the new weight to try it out, if you get in 10 reps you are gold for next cycle.

[DemonInAJar]

Its not a low progression rate. The absolute min for the program pattern to work is 10% bumps. Some double the squat working weight in 3-4 cycles just by learning the lift. If you want to do say a 20% bump, then on light day of test week do 1 set of 10 with the new weight to try it out, if you get in 10 reps you are gold for next cycle.

What I mean by progression rate I mean that it's a 10% per 5 weeks. Strength training programs go a lot faster than that (at the beggining at least due to the linear progression).

[nightanole]

What I mean by progression rate I mean that it's a 10% per 5 weeks. Strength training programs go a lot faster than that (at the beggining at least due to the linear progression).

Think about it in RPE scale. Yes "the progression rate" is only applying 10% more load over 5 weeks. However you start with a RPE 10, 10 rep load. At the end of the cycle, you could be doing RPE 7-8 with a 12 rep load. As long as RPE is 6 or above on the first set, you are getting in "quality reps" that are promoting growth. On top of that this is a fatigue buildup program, you are not allowed to fully recover like strong lifts or starting strength. So on test day at the end of the cycle, those 2 12 rep sets are going to be a lot harder vs if you where fully recovered.

"in a vacuum" Ive had people that could OHP 100lbs for 10 reps if they hadnt benched/ohp in a week, and needed to be knocked down to 70lbs working weight in order to complete the cycle.

[happloc1]

Im pretty new to working out and im interested in this routine. Has somebody made an excel sheet or any type of template where i can just carry it into the gym and follow along that way. Im pretty bad with organization. Also a whole other question. I do commercial electrician work for my job so i was wondering if the moderate to fast paced environment would have an impact on my lifts after my commute home

[brettttt]

Im pretty new to working out and im interested in this routine. Has somebody made an excel sheet or any type of template where i can just carry it into the gym and follow along that way.

One I downloaded from previous posts, credit goes to the guy who made it not me.

[happloc1]

Thank you for taking the time to help me out

[happloc1]

I have a question regarding the weight used to do the excersizes. If itis hard for me to complete 10 squats using only the bar. Do i just use that weight since it cannot be modified?

[nightanole]

I have a question regarding the weight used to do the excersizes. If itis hard for me to complete 10 squats using only the bar. Do i just use that weight since it cannot be modified?

Ideally if you have an Olympic bar, you start off with 55lbs, so you can do 50 on medium and just the bar on light day.

Since the bar is your 10 rep max (how do you OHP????) your warmup will just be 2 unloaded sets of a broom handle or plastic pipe or something else to mimic the movement. You can try just doing 3 "heavies" a week with just the bar, but if the fatigue build up is too much you will need to either figure out how to lighten the load by doing goblet squats with a dumb bell till you can do 55lbs, or reduce medium or light day to just 1 set, or skip medium day and just have 2 heavies a week.

[happloc1]

Thank you. My over head press is done with a fixed 60 lb. Barbell. I have been working out my upper body (not to any sort of limit where i pushed myself over the top) but have neglected my legs completely bcoz im on them all day climbing ladders doing electrician work. Im hoping this structured workout will help me learn to push my limits safely and get me on the right track to fitness and weight loss and control

[Jimbob81]

Honestly i think you should switch to forced progression program like greyskull LP or even 5/3/1. Since at least greyskull is very flexible, you could use most if not all of the allpro lifts and just use the greyskull pattern.

So if we reroll greyskull into an AB pattern (so that week one is aba and week 2 is bab, for balance) we get:

A:
Bench
squat
Row
Incline Curl
land mine jammers (either single or 2 handed)

B:
OHP or arnold press
SLDL
upright row or skull
Some other type of row you can progress on such as kroc rows
farmer carries (enough weight to only be able to carry 30m-50m, 3 sets)

Since your upper/lower working weights are similar, i would keep progression at 1kg/2.5lb bumps for both. And yes odds are you will need to make some DIY chain hoop weights or something similar. Some have luck finding really cheap 1.25lb/.5kg washers with 2" holes for example.

I would reset with the bar, stop the AMRAP session at 15 reps, and do double progression (2kg/5lb) every time you hit at least 10 reps on the AMRAP set. This will give you a several week deload, and help you get into the groove faster.

Finally i would set rest time at 3min. This will some what regulate you, its long enough that you wont be rushing sets, and its short enough that you wont end up with a too heavy of working weight.

Like the look of this, would you advise the frequency method with this?

[nightanole]

Like the look of this, would you advise the frequency method with this?

I call it "grease the groove", but its mainly for body weight exercises that you do outside the session.

But yea if you want to do;burrpees, hill sprints, chinups, pushups, even pistol squats, for half your max reps 5-10 times a day, go for it.

If i feel froggy, i will do 1-2 reps of my 5 rep max of the big compounds during the weekend. So sat might be 10 reps of deadlifts(first round may our may not need a 50% warmup set) spread out during the day, and sunday might be 50 reps of chinups spread out during the day.

[Jimbob81]

I call it "grease the groove", but its mainly for body weight exercises that you do outside the session.

But yea if you want to do;burrpees, hill sprints, chinups, pushups, even pistol squats, for half your max reps 5-10 times a day, go for it.

If i feel froggy, i will do 1-2 reps of my 5 rep max of the big compounds during the weekend. So sat might be 10 reps of deadlifts(first round may our may not need a 50% warmup set) spread out during the day, and sunday might be 50 reps of chinups spread out during the day.

Yeah I read Greyskull lp after we spoke last time so am familiar with the setup, just wondered if you thought with the added exercises over the basic program it would be advisable to up the volume with grease and groove or just run the routine on its own. Was looking at chins and press ups because of my vanity but wondering if the burpees are going to help with the squats?

[nightanole]

Yeah I read Greyskull lp after we spoke last time so am familiar with the setup, just wondered if you thought with the added exercises over the basic program it would be advisable to up the volume with grease and groove or just run the routine on its own. Was looking at chins and press ups because of my vanity but wondering if the burpees are going to help with the squats?

The basic program is only like 3 lifts per workout. You MUST add additional exercises to make the program well rounded. I turned it into an AB using the allpro ish lifts. However you can also turn this into a conditioning program by using the frequency method. The frequency method will improve sports performance, but it may not increase muscle mass to any meaningful degree once you can do 30ish reps on a "lift" continuously, which means 15 rep "frequency" sessions.

[Dwgear]

I've completed second week of 4th cycle. Had to take a week off for phantom pain caused by nephrectomy a few years ago. The week back I had a scheduling issue so did 2 heavy days at 9 reps. Looking at starting a new week tomorrow. Do I 1) repeat 2nd week (9reps) of cycle or 2) move to 3rd week (10reps)?

[nightanole]

I've completed second week of 4th cycle. Had to take a week off for phantom pain caused by nephrectomy a few years ago. The week back I had a scheduling issue so did 2 heavy days at 9 reps. Looking at starting a new week tomorrow. Do I 1) repeat 2nd week (9reps) of cycle or 2) move to 3rd week (10reps)?

If you did 2 heavies (9 rep) last week, feel free to start 10 rep week as normal.

Its turkey week this week, so odds are there will be a lot of heavy-heavy lifters, i call it "the holiday schedule".


Going forward, if you take a week off during the 9-12 rep stage, reset to 9 rep week, since that is the official start of the meso.

[Vyprath]

Can I add in some reverse cable curls to work forearms, also do any of the exercises work traps? Also what is test day and when do I do it

[nightanole]

Can I add in some reverse cable curls to work forearms, also do any of the exercises work traps? Also what is test day and when do I do it

I probably wouldnt be able to type if i did reverse cable curls.... If you have the structure for them, you can even replace the stock curl with them, plus the cable variant is superior to the db. Else if you want to split the difference, that would be the hammer grip.

Traps are worked passively on just about every exercise, including the OHP. If you have some lifting experience, you could include shugs or famer carries as one of your 2 optional accessories.

"Test day" is week 5, 12 rep heavy day. If you get in 2 sets of 12, you "pass" can get to bump the next cycle by at least 10%, for all exercises you pass on. Dont expect to pass all exercises every time. Feel free to cut a set short vs doing sloppy form, on any day but test day.

[Vyprath]

I probably wouldnt be able to type if i did reverse cable curls.... If you have the structure for them, you can even replace the stock curl with them, plus the cable variant is superior to the db. Else if you want to split the difference, that would be the hammer grip.

Traps are worked passively on just about every exercise, including the OHP. If you have some lifting experience, you could include shugs or famer carries as one of your 2 optional accessories.

"Test day" is week 5, 12 rep heavy day. If you get in 2 sets of 12, you "pass" can get to bump the next cycle by at least 10%, for all exercises you pass on. Dont expect to pass all exercises every time. Feel free to cut a set short vs doing sloppy form, on any day but test day.

Thanks for the reply. I’ll add in reverse cable curls, do you recommend I change my bb bicep curls to cable curls or leave them as they are?

How much muscle can I expect to gain during the first 6-12 months assuming I am eating and working out correctly?

[nightanole]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll add in reverse cable curls, do you recommend I change my bb bicep curls to cable curls or leave them as they are?

How much muscle can I expect to gain during the first 6-12 months assuming I am eating and working out correctly?

I see no point in having 2 curls. So use reverse cable or bb regular. Or you could do reverse cable and some chinups as that is a compound.

Ending stats for the program are :
bmi of 24 @13% bf
bench 10 reps of bw
squat 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw
SLDL should be lower than squat, and should be able to get well past the knee with a straight back
OHP should be at least 60% of bench

For a healthy male, this takes 5-7 cycles. If you start with a bmi of 19-20 and cant overcome your eating habits its going to take longer. If you are bmi of 30, you may already have that 10-15lbs of n00b muscle, and need to focus on dropping that 40-50lbs of fat. If you think you will progress on lifts while not gaining or losing body weight, you will have a sad sad time.

[Vyprath]

What do you mean by can’t over come eating habits? I’m currently 20 BMI at 62kg, 177cm. I eat 2300 calories a day (300 over maintenance) and get around 140g of protein a day, I eat rather clean.

My bench is 55kg
Squat is 50kg
OHP is 25kg

Why is there no point having two different curls? Both work two different muscles, at least isolating them.

[nightanole]

What do you mean by can’t over come eating habits? I’m currently 20 BMI at 62kg, 177cm. I eat 2300 calories a day (300 over maintenance) and get around 140g of protein a day, I eat rather clean.

My bench is 55kg
Squat is 50kg
OHP is 25kg

Why is there no point having two different curls? Both work two different muscles, at least isolating them.

OK you are 62kg. You need to be at around 77kg 2 cycles before you exit the program, so you can cut the baby fat you built up.

So by overcoming your eating habits, you will have to eat "an extra" 66,000 calories to make weight. Odds are this will take 18 months "if" you are not growing. If you are 17-18 years old and still have a few cm to grow, then your bmi will go down if you just maintain weight.

On to the the curl thing. The curl is the most worthless exercise on the planet in terms of time vs returns. "Coaches" only put them into the routines, because otherwise n00bs will not even run the programs. Your biceps and forearms will be much meatier with a 200lbs row and a 95lb weighted chinup, vs being able to curl a 95lb bar bell.

[Vyprath]

OK you are 62kg. You need to be at around 77kg 2 cycles before you exit the program, so you can cut the baby fat you built up.

So by overcoming your eating habits, you will have to eat "an extra" 66,000 calories to make weight. Odds are this will take 18 months "if" you are not growing. If you are 17-18 years old and still have a few cm to grow, then your bmi will go down if you just maintain weight.

On to the the curl thing. The curl is the most worthless exercise on the planet in terms of time vs returns. "Coaches" only put them into the routines, because otherwise n00bs will not even run the programs. Your biceps and forearms will be much meatier with a 200lbs row and a 95lb weighted chinup, vs being able to curl a 95lb bar bell.

So I have to be on a large calorie surplus during the program? Is 300 calories enough over maintenance?

[nightanole]

So I have to be on a large calorie surplus during the program? Is 300 calories enough over maintenance?

Start off with 250-300 cals. Adjust every 2 weeks till the scale starts going up. You are aiming for about 1kg per cycle in weight gain.

[Tango16Actual]

Am I the only one whose mind is blown that Mr. NightAnole has been answering questions since this post was made back in 2015?!?
Give it up for this guy. I don't know what you get out of the deal but bravo.

I've been trying to get fit off and on for a while now. I hate the idea of wasting my time on a program that isn't as good as it could be despite knowing in the back of my mind that "doing anything is better than doing nothing". I feel like I can trust this guy has done his homework, my homework, and about 214 reply pages worth of other peoples homework. With that said I have just a simple statement and a question:

Satement: I think it'd be worth nothing in your Q&A that most of us can't adjust wait by 1 or even 2lbs at a time. But I've searched and found your responses to the implied question to be "round down". - My 2 cents.

Question 1: Is there a preferred way to do the calf raises? Right now I'm just straight arm holding a 100lb dumbell and kind of going for it on flat ground.
Question 2: I can't help but have some bend in my back when doing OHP. Is this acceptable or should I go down in weight (if that's even possible -.- ) til I can keep a perfectly straight back.

Thanks again man. No reply expected but certainly appreciated.

[nightanole]

Am I the only one whose mind is blown that Mr. NightAnole has been answering questions since this post was made back in 2015?!?
Give it up for this guy. I don't know what you get out of the deal but bravo.

I've been trying to get fit off and on for a while now. I hate the idea of wasting my time on a program that isn't as good as it could be despite knowing in the back of my mind that "doing anything is better than doing nothing". I feel like I can trust this guy has done his homework, my homework, and about 214 reply pages worth of other peoples homework. With that said I have just a simple statement and a question:

Satement: I think it'd be worth nothing in your Q&A that most of us can't adjust wait by 1 or even 2lbs at a time. But I've searched and found your responses to the implied question to be "round down". - My 2 cents.

Question 1: Is there a preferred way to do the calf raises? Right now I'm just straight arm holding a 100lb dumbell and kind of going for it on flat ground.
Question 2: I can't help but have some bend in my back when doing OHP. Is this acceptable or should I go down in weight (if that's even possible -.- ) til I can keep a perfectly straight back.

Thanks again man. No reply expected but certainly appreciated.

calf raises anything goes, as long as its full range of motion. Some do them in the squat rack on a plank with the weight across their back. Some do them sitting on a bench with the dumb bell on the knee. Some do them on steps with 1 hand on the railing and dumb bell in the other.


for the OHP you have a few choices. remember that the bar goes straight up and down, and its you that goes in and out of the bar path. You should be bending at the hips, not flexing your back or using your neck to move your head out of the way.

One option is a really loose rope around your waist, or a really loose weight belt. AKA if you are not bracing, it falls off. This keeps people from sucking all their internal organs into their chest cavity at lock out. I dont know why they do it, odds are they got the idea from the people who lock out squats on their tipy toes.

The second option is to axe the OHP completely and do the seated arnold press with dumb bells. You flex your back on that one and you will just fall over.

[Sqwatzhurtbad]

Hi, I've started Allpro around 8 weeks ago, love it so far with the focus on big compound movements. Im M/36yrs old, 5'10", 86kg/190lbs and have been out of the gym for pretty much the last 15yrs looking to shape up.

Im currently cutting @~1800-2000cal/day clean foods/macros , (down from 89kg's 8 weeks ago and my waist has gone from 95cm-90.5cm, i assume some water weight has been added from taking creatine). My 10 rep lift numbers i'm a bit ashamed of at the moment (especially squat/row but i'm finding my form is getting better as i practice the exercises). My first time doing this in the gym i almost threw up and went into a cold sweat for 10 minutes haha. But im starting to really enjoy it, the SLDL seem to be the one that hits my CNS the most for some reason.

Squat - 50Kg's
Bench - 55Kg's
Bent over row - 40Kg's
OHP - 25Kg's (im getting slight shoulder twinges so not pushing this lift yet)
SLDL - 40Kg's
Barbell curl - 20Kg's / Chinups 3 unassisted

i bought a doorway chinup bar to do a bit of frequency chinups/pushups for offdays.

Im finding that i am usually going into the gym with most of my body still slightly fatigued from the workout 48hrs prior but still getting through the next workout, i guess this is normal?

I've recently read through the greyskull LP book and quite like the idea of the last set in each exercise in that program to be AMRAP, could i run allpro with my last set in each exercise AMRAP?, just wondering if i would progress better not leaving anything in the tank but i'm also hesitant to start messing around with the stock program.

Also im really not sure if at my low strength right now continuing to cut is the best thing. I think it is to lose the fat while i dont have much muscle to lose at the same time but am a bit wary of going overboard and losing too much weight and wondering if bulk and cut may serve me better. My end goal is really to get a six pack and well built injury free, not so much high strength. Attached some body pics to get an idea of my fat%, im guessing around 20%ish?

front.jpg
frontflex.jpg
backflex.jpg
tummy.jpg

[nightanole]

Hi, I've started Allpro around 8 weeks ago, love it so far with the focus on big compound movements. Im M/36yrs old, 5'10", 86kg/190lbs and have been out of the gym for pretty much the last 15yrs looking to shape up.

Im currently cutting @~1800-2000cal/day clean foods/macros , (down from 89kg's 8 weeks ago and my waist has gone from 95cm-90.5cm, i assume some water weight has been added from taking creatine). My 10 rep lift numbers i'm a bit ashamed of at the moment (especially squat/row but i'm finding my form is getting better as i practice the exercises). My first time doing this in the gym i almost threw up and went into a cold sweat for 10 minutes haha. But im starting to really enjoy it, the SLDL seem to be the one that hits my CNS the most for some reason.

Squat - 50Kg's
Bench - 55Kg's
Bent over row - 40Kg's
OHP - 25Kg's (im getting slight shoulder twinges so not pushing this lift yet)
SLDL - 40Kg's
Barbell curl - 20Kg's / Chinups 3 unassisted

i bought a doorway chinup bar to do a bit of frequency chinups/pushups for offdays.

Im finding that i am usually going into the gym with most of my body still slightly fatigued from the workout 48hrs prior but still getting through the next workout, i guess this is normal?

I've recently read through the greyskull LP book and quite like the idea of the last set in each exercise in that program to be AMRAP, could i run allpro with my last set in each exercise AMRAP?, just wondering if i would progress better not leaving anything in the tank but i'm also hesitant to start messing around with the stock program.

Also im really not sure if at my low strength right now continuing to cut is the best thing. I think it is to lose the fat while i dont have much muscle to lose at the same time but am a bit wary of going overboard and losing too much weight and wondering if bulk and cut may serve me better. My end goal is really to get a six pack and well built injury free, not so much high strength. Attached some body pics to get an idea of my fat%, im guessing around 20%ish?

Attachment 9019781
Attachment 9019791
Attachment 9019801
Attachment 9019811

1) Yes you are not allowed to fully recover on this program. With proper working weights, medium day will be require the most effort for the week.
2) ALLPRO should be ran with reps in the tank other than 11-12 rep weeks. The reason for this is the closer you get to failure, the MUCH longer it takes to recover. Greyskull has you doing the lifts at half the frequency of allpro due to this. Its a great program, but you kinda need to match the patterns up.
3) Its generally recommended to cut to bmi 23-24 while you are weak and learning the lifts and getting used to the program. Then you start a slow bulk to bmi 25-26, then you spend a few cycles cutting back down to bmi 24.

Goals of the program:
bmi 24 @13% bf
10 reps of bw bench
10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw bench

college kids can hit this in 5-7 cycles with no lifting experience.

Starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Its hard to perform on much lower than that if you are of normal height. If its still not enough of a deficit, up the cardio. If you know how to feed yourself, you can lower the fat down to 60-75, but that is assuming you have a good fat profile, and are not doing a bro diet.


And you look around 18%. You would be 20% if had zero side definition, but you at least have a taper and even some lats.


Pro tip. Take side shots, you will not change much from the front/back, but you can get much thicker/thinner from the side. If your chest goes from 42 to 45 inches, its going to be from getting 1-2" thicker from the side, not getting 1-2" wider from the front.

[Sqwatzhurtbad]

@nightanole Ok thanks a lot for the tips, i will keep cutting for a while. See if i can get down to around 75Kgs i guess would put me at BMI 24ish and then start a slow bulk.