AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Hi night -- A couple of questions:

I bought a chin-up bar for home and have been using it for gtg. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to stop. The straight bar is causing me severe pain on the inside of my left elbow. It feels kind of like connective tissue is being drug across bone on the way up. I don't have this problem with a hammer grip or with an angled grip that's halfway between supine grip and hammer grip. (I like the angled grip best.) But most chin-up bars don't have this option. So my question is, if I can no longer do gtg and have to just do chinups in the gym as part of my regular workout, what pattern do you recommend? My most recent AMRAP was 4.

2nd question is regarding OHP. I've switched to the Greyskull LP pattern and will be up to 87.5 lbs. next workout (last was 85 x 5, 5, 7). This has gone fine, but I think tendinitis is going to prevent me from continuing. Judging by how I'm feeling, I think even if I did it only every other All Pro workout, the inflammation still wouldn't die down enough between sessions. So my question is whether it makes sense to run the Greyskull pattern doing seated Arnold DB press instead? If so, I guess I'd need to get some loadable dumbbells and do it at home? Because 2.5 lb adjustments with dumbbells at my gym isn't possible. The smallest bumps are 5 lbs, 2.5 lbs. per side.

1) You are trying to wrist curl, or reverse wrist curl, the weight on either the chinup or the row. This is causing a type of tennis elbow when you are lowering the weight back down. For me i have a bad habit of reverse wrist curling the pendlay row when i get tired( at the top by the chest it literally looks like im pause benching complete with the wrists slightly back) and the last time i really snapped my stuff up my left arm was worthless for pulls for months, still could OHP and dip though. For home use, you can switch to hammer grip, by making some loops and using some conduit to make a handle.
https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/world...011991648.html

Or you could rebuy the bar with the hammer grip option:
https://www.pullupbarninja.com/doorw...up-bar-review/
https://www.pullupbarninja.com/doorw...ut-bar-review/
http://pro-fitness.com/choosing-the-...nted-pull-bar/


2) If you like the greyskull pattern, great. 5lb bumps may work with a bit of modification. Boiled down the greyskull pattern is 2 sub maximal sets (RPE 7-8) and 1 RPE10 AMRAP set. So you can still do 5lb bumps, if you feel you still have a solid 2-3 reps in the tank on the first 2 sets. Else you can still do the Arnold press with my 10 sets of 3 pattern if you can handle the self progression. Its just sets of 3 using your 8-10 rep max as a starting weight, 30 second rests. Stop the session at the first slow rep. If you get in all 10 sets, you bump 10% so it knocks you down to 5-6 sets again.

[ahmedhappy312]

Hello Night,

I am currently on regulated and I have been trying for 2 sessions to pass my OHP but so far failing, I am feeling that my left trap is fatigued during the motion causing a slow rep then I drop the set.

There is no pain in my shoulder but I fell that generally in the area between my neck and shoulder, my left side is giving up once I progress through the set.

well is that normal? or there is something I should do about it.

Here are my number if it helps:

Squat: 100 LB
BOR: 78 LB
BP: 100 LB
SLDL : 126 LB
OHP: 53 LB

I am doing skull curshers (10KG) and Incline curls (12KG) 1 set to failure.

[nightanole]

Hello Night,

I am currently on regulated and I have been trying for 2 sessions to pass my OHP but so far failing, I am feeling that my left trap is fatigued during the motion causing a slow rep then I drop the set.

There is no pain in my shoulder but I fell that generally in the area between my neck and shoulder, my left side is giving up once I progress through the set.

well is that normal? or there is something I should do about it.

Here are my number if it helps:

Squat: 100 LB
BOR: 78 LB
BP: 100 LB
SLDL : 126 LB
OHP: 53 LB

I am doing skull curshers (10KG) and Incline curls (12KG) 1 set to failure.

That normally happens if you dont lock out every rep, the "shrug" at the end of every rep. So at lock out make sure your elbows rotate out a little(if you look up, it looks like you are trying to bend the bar into a smile)

If you wanted to as an accessory, do 1 set of shrugs using your SLDL weight. Stop the set when you feel your left trap giving out. I would only do this twice a week, or even once a week.

[ahmedhappy312]

That normally happens if you dont lock out every rep, the "shrug" at the end of every rep. So at lock out make sure your elbows rotate out a little(if you look up, it looks like you are trying to bend the bar into a smile)

If you wanted to as an accessory, do 1 set of shrugs using your SLDL weight. Stop the set when you feel your left trap giving out. I would only do this twice a week, or even once a week.

thanks night I will try these tips and see how if things improve.

[Jimbob81]

Hi Night, I am around 85kg, body fat somewhere around 25%. TDEE is around 2300 and have currently been eating at 1800 with high protein for the first cycle. Would you suggest I change this up for your Pro/fat 100g and 200g of carbs? Just I will struggle to eat only 100g of protein.

Here are my lifts at the moment after 4 weeks of auto regulated(have ran the original for 5 cycles around a year ago but then let things slide):

Squat - 50kg
Bench - 50kg
Row - 45kg
OHP - 22.5kg
SLDL - 50kg
Lat Pull - 55kg
Seated Calf - 65kg

Many thanks!

[nightanole]

hey guys! ill be honest this looks kinda advanced for a begginer, my goal is now to loose weight after being off for like 4 years. I am just slowly starting to get into it. i read this blog where they talk about how bodybuilding type traning is not the way to go if your an average joe who wants to loose weight etc. they offer a program of some sort... it's cheap but i dont know if i should get it. let me know! looks good to me and noting really to lose.

Start this program light(12 rep max) with a " canary in the coal mine" of never missing reps till after week 3, if you can do that, you are not under eating to the point of strength regression.

As far as not doing "body buiding". There are 2-3 different beginner style programs out there. The "max weight/performance for sports tryouts", these are the 5x5 or 3x5 programs that want you to have a 405 deadlift and be 18-22% body fat. The "max hypertrophy" programs that test your recovery to the limit to eek out the max possible muscle gains for your first year, such as ICF 5x5 and a few of the stickies. Then there is the "max muscle mass while staying 6 weeks away from abs", this is allpro and alot of the full body routines that focus on higher reps.

Alpros main goal is to keep you around bmi of 24 and flexed abs. This is best achieved by starting the progam on a cut down to bmi 23 while learning hte lifts, then slow bulking to bmi 25, and a final mini cut at the end. There are outliers that either start the program very under or very over weight, and they can cut or bulk for the entirety of the program.

[nightanole]

Hi Night, I am around 85kg, body fat somewhere around 25%. TDEE is around 2300 and have currently been eating at 1800 with high protein for the first cycle. Would you suggest I change this up for your Pro/fat 100g and 200g of carbs? Just I will struggle to eat only 100g of protein.

Here are my lifts at the moment after 4 weeks of auto regulated(have ran the original for 5 cycles around a year ago but then let things slide):

Squat - 50kg
Bench - 50kg
Row - 45kg
OHP - 22.5kg
SLDL - 50kg
Lat Pull - 55kg
Seated Calf - 65kg

Many thanks!

Squat and OHP are a bit light for my taste.

As for diet, the posted diet is the mins, you can run higher for any of the macros. So if you want to run 125-150g protein that is fine. If you can properly feed yourself, you can even drop the fat down to 50g. If you read back a page i kinda ripped a new guy a newone with his fat profile being almost 100% nuts, literally.

The base diet is based on worst possible scenario. That would be; protein is 75% or more from plants/dairy, fat is only from 1-2 sources(olive/coconut), carb sources are low fiber(corn/flour/bread/ non oat cereal grains).

[LargePeter]

Week one of cycle three, pretty certain I've scored an oblique strain on leg presses (no squats as yet due to pre existing lower back issues).

Leg press is a no, stiff leg deads ditto - I can bench, row, curl and overhead press seated no problem. I also added face pulls this cycle to assist with shoulder imbalance and pain.

I'm trying to avoid sitting the time out totally; as it sits right now I can train upper body fine - would I be justified in completing the cycle sans lower body work to assist in rehabbing the strain and in cycle 4, repeat the cycle 2 lower body weights? Or attempt cycle 3 weights again?

[Jimbob81]

Squat and OHP are a bit light for my taste.

As for diet, the posted diet is the mins, you can run higher for any of the macros. So if you want to run 125-150g protein that is fine. If you can properly feed yourself, you can even drop the fat down to 50g. If you read back a page i kinda ripped a new guy a newone with his fat profile being almost 100% nuts, literally.

The base diet is based on worst possible scenario. That would be; protein is 75% or more from plants/dairy, fat is only from 1-2 sources(olive/coconut), carb sources are low fiber(corn/flour/bread/ non oat cereal grains).

Yeah, I started off easy on the squat because last time my right leg developed more than my left so wanted to concentrate on lifting evenly than starting the weight too high. I introduced 3x5 for the squat to boost it for a couple of weeks as of today so it is ahead of the Bench(used 60kg and hit 7 on my final set), you think this is alright because I prefer the low rep feel for squats?

As for the diet you have answered my question with referring to bringing the fat down to 50g, my diet is pretty varied containing almost all whole foods and lean meats.

Thanks for the reply and look forward to contributing further during my progress.

[nightanole]

Week one of cycle three, pretty certain I've scored an oblique strain on leg presses (no squats as yet due to pre existing lower back issues).

Leg press is a no, stiff leg deads ditto - I can bench, row, curl and overhead press seated no problem. I also added face pulls this cycle to assist with shoulder imbalance and pain.

I'm trying to avoid sitting the time out totally; as it sits right now I can train upper body fine - would I be justified in completing the cycle sans lower body work to assist in rehabbing the strain and in cycle 4, repeat the cycle 2 lower body weights? Or attempt cycle 3 weights again?

You can continue on just omitting the leg work. It would be nice if you could get in some core work though, like hanging leg raises and farmer carries.

[nightanole]

Yeah, I started off easy on the squat because last time my right leg developed more than my left so wanted to concentrate on lifting evenly than starting the weight too high. I introduced 3x5 for the squat to boost it for a couple of weeks as of today so it is ahead of the Bench(used 60kg and hit 7 on my final set), you think this is alright because I prefer the low rep feel for squats?

As for the diet you have answered my question with referring to bringing the fat down to 50g, my diet is pretty varied containing almost all whole foods and lean meats.

Thanks for the reply and look forward to contributing further during my progress.

For the big 3, you can do 3 sets or 2 sets, with a rep goal of 24, the only difference will be a 10%ish change in working weight.

[Absurdisreal]

If you want to bulk from the get go, its generally recommended to run F5 or thevikings bare bones. Allpro is for those that want to cut 15+lbs of fat first.

Hello Nightanole, My first post, so first things first- Thank you and all the good people who have contributed the the Allpro thread!!!

Just completing my first cycle. I started reading from the beginning of the ORIGINAL and made it a few years into the threads...today I jumped to the end to see how the conversation has progressed.

Your comment about Allpro being ideal only for cutting is new news in terms of the beginning of the conversation...just curious, did we learn more since the beginning?


OK, that aside...If you could make any recommendations based on my stats it would be greatly appreciated.

50 Years old, 5' 7", 133 lbs forever, naturally cut. Hummingbird energy/metabolism. No real workout history (a few random diy short-term fails over the years).

Last 6 weeks-
Macro tracking + Eating at 500 surplus w/ 1-1.5 g protein/lb. One cycle of Allpro.

Now at 138 lbs and on a nice solid trend upward, already had to retire my skinny jeans!

SQ 90
BP 70
BOR 60
OHP 35
SLDL 70
Curl 30
Calf 20

My goal is strictly bodybuilding (oh the vanity!). I'll credit this program with getting me in the rhythm and establishing baselines, but where should I go from here for maximum return on investment?

[nightanole]

Hello Nightanole, My first post, so first things first- Thank you and all the good people who have contributed the the Allpro thread!!!

Just completing my first cycle. I started reading from the beginning of the ORIGINAL and made it a few years into the threads...today I jumped to the end to see how the conversation has progressed.

Your comment about Allpro being ideal only for cutting is new news in terms of the beginning of the conversation...just curious, did we learn more since the beginning?


OK, that aside...If you could make any recommendations based on my stats it would be greatly appreciated.

50 Years old, 5' 7", 133 lbs forever, naturally cut. Hummingbird energy/metabolism. No real workout history (a few random diy short-term fails over the years).

Last 6 weeks-
Macro tracking + Eating at 500 surplus w/ 1-1.5 g protein/lb. One cycle of Allpro.

Now at 138 lbs and on a nice solid trend upward, already had to retire my skinny jeans!

SQ 90
BP 70
BOR 60
OHP 35
SLDL 70
Curl 30
Calf 20

My goal is strictly bodybuilding (oh the vanity!). I'll credit this program with getting me in the rhythm and establishing baselines, but where should I go from here for maximum return on investment?

Its not that we have learned much, other than the routine has such high volume that its recommended to only have warm-up sets for the first 3 lifts.

Allpro went with a little marketing/demographic change.

1995-2005 just about every program produced was meant for underweight teens, and most "marketed" programs are still that. "gain 20lbs of solid muscle in 180 days mahahahahaahhaa squats-n-milk!!!!"

Allpro went with the lean gains approach. We are assuming the person starting the program is overweight to begin with. The program is designed to be ran while lean. Based on that, "most" of the time the lifter does not need to gain weight, and may even end up lighter than they started.

Ending stats for allpro are:
BMI of 24@13% bf
10 reps of bw bench
10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats
This should take 6-9 cycles under ideal conditions.

If you are underweight and dont know how to feed yourself, you are going to have a bad time just trying to "get strong as possible" at bmi 20-21.
Like wise you have the folks that think dropping weight is bad, and then spend cycle upon cycle at the same weight, and also dont really get anywhere. They ate just enough to maintain weight, but not enough to improve performance.


So i will tell you like i tell everyone else, try to get to bmi 23 at a quick pace while getting good at the lifts. Then slow bulk to bmi 25, and finish off a cycle or 2 cutting back down to bmi 24.

You would have to be gods gift to lifting if you can get to a bmi of 25@13% with just a year of lifting. You would have to push down tree or carry cinder blocks up up ramps for a living in order to hit those numbers the first year.

http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

Here is another nice bench mark.

"strong" is the end of the n00b phase. Its when the 190-210lb lifter hits that magic 1/2/3/4 plate metric. This takes 6-12 months. The allpro working weight is 60-65% of your 1 rep max.

5.7 24.3 bmi is 155lbs
So figure you are 144lb squat and 112lb bench.
If you plug that into a compound interest calc, you end up with "strong" at around 9 cycles if you pass test day every time on the big 3, and gain 25lbs and then strip 5lbs of baby fat.

[Absurdisreal]

So, basically- Keep my skinny ass calm, keep eating (right), and stick with the Allpro Program?

And thank you for the in-depth reply. I hope you are on the payroll, you really help a lot of people.

[psyaap]

Hi! Can you repost the link to Emma's diet thread from the FAQ's? It doesn't seem to work anymore.

[BS57]

Hi! Can you repost the link to Emma's diet thread from the FAQ's? It doesn't seem to work anymore.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=136691851

[JayB1985]

Is this a better routine to follow than say StrongLifts or starting Strength if your obese

I’m starting at 350lbs and jumped on and off SL SS and ICF and want something new.

I have a squat rack with barbell and bench in garage so these exercises would be perfect to do (apart from calf raises)

Also the 10% increase say you start at 40kg and bump up to 44kg so you round up to 45kg as plates are increase by 2.5kg or 1.25kg so can’t grt 4kg exactly if you know what I mean (sorry if this has already been answered)

[nightanole]

Is this a better routine to follow than say StrongLifts or starting Strength if your obese

I’m starting at 350lbs and jumped on and off SL SS and ICF and want something new.

I have a squat rack with barbell and bench in garage so these exercises would be perfect to do (apart from calf raises)

Also the 10% increase say you start at 40kg and bump up to 44kg so you round up to 45kg as plates are increase by 2.5kg or 1.25kg so can’t grt 4kg exactly if you know what I mean (sorry if this has already been answered)

Ill tell you the advice i told all the fat bastards.

Unless you have a lot of squat experience, just start off with the bar, and forget about the 10% bumps. Focus on adding any weight lost, to the bar. You never said your height, but im going to assume you are under 6ft(i have a 1 in 5 chance of being wrong) so odds are you should weight between 150-175lbs. So thats 175lbs added to the bar, plus the 45lb bar. Spread that out for a 1 year goal, and you are squatting 225 for 10 reps, at 175lbs. Does that sound like a solid deal to you?

Your weight loss goal is 1-1.5% bw per week. That is going to be tough calorically, but you figure a lot of that is water weight, and it takes alot of calories to keep 350lbs warm, so your matabolislm/TDEE is very high vs a 150lb person trying to get to 125lbs.

The base starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Id start off with that, and even lean towards the 300g range for carbs depending on how much of a deficit that is.

The rest of the progam can be ran as is. Start off with your 10-12 rep max, depending if you want to start a bit light.

Weight bumps are 10% min. so if you are at 40, you bump to 45. Worse case if its a really big bump, like 30kg to 35kg, you may fail a test day, and take 2 cycles to hit 35kg for 12, but you are still progressing at 6.66-7.5% per cycle even at that pace.

[JayB1985]

I’m 6ft3 and have squatted quite a lot and even at my size can go very low

[Mcpenco]

Hey,

I am currently on week 3 of the first cycle.

I am having a very difficult time doing squats, my knees are bending too much. I don't know if it's because I am 240 pounds (lost 140 pounds since the start of the year) or because I am a beginner.

I don't feel that my quads are being properly trained with squats and my lower back hurts a little afterwards.

Is it possible to replace squads with something else for the moment?

[nightanole]

I’m 6ft3 and have squatted quite a lot and even at my size can go very low

OK you should end the program around 195lbs with a 250-275lb for 10 squat.

[nightanole]

Hey,

I am currently on week 3 of the first cycle.

I am having a very difficult time doing squats, my knees are bending too much. I don't know if it's because I am 240 pounds (lost 140 pounds since the start of the year) or because I am a beginner.

I don't feel that my quads are being properly trained with squats and my lower back hurts a little afterwards.

Is it possible to replace squads with something else for the moment?

Reducing your working weight by 20% and learn to squat.

Not sure you can "bend your knees too much" since they should be a full range, not half squatting with "you" trying to stop them on the way down.

Your back problem is because you are flexing your back during either the squat or the row or the SLDL. No back bending with a weight in this routine.

[ahmedhappy312]

Hello Night,

So today I was running my session and was feeling fatigued during BP, OHP and SLDL and I can tell because my rep ranges dropped significantly since my last session on Sunday (couldn't train mid-week), I guess this is a call for dload week, so I have these questions:

- How much dload percentage I should aim to? considering that my working weights are (BP 100LB, OHP 53LB, SLDL 126LB)?
- Can I corporate machines for Chest and shoulders for dload week or you don't recommend so?

I am running regelated version, and I passed squate on today session was 110LB

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hello Night,

So today I was running my session and was feeling fatigued during BP, OHP and SLDL and I can tell because my rep ranges dropped significantly since my last session on Sunday (couldn't train mid-week), I guess this is a call for dload week, so I have these questions:

- How much dload percentage I should aim to? considering that my working weights are (BP 100LB, OHP 53LB, SLDL 126LB)?
- Can I corporate machines for Chest and shoulders for dload week or you don't recommend so?

I am running regelated version, and I passed squate on today session was 110LB

Thanks

Deload is normally 2 sets of 10 at 50% working weight, so for bench/row/squat, that means 1 warmup of the bar or what ever, and 3 warmup sets of around 50%, and thats it for the session. You can "try out" the machines, but you need to continue to "practice" the lifts. So if you are going to make this a deload week, you need to have at least 1 session of every lift at some point during the week. So what you could do is replace one session of bench with the chest machine, and 1 session of OHP with the shoulder machine. That still leaves you with 1-2 sessions of bench and OHP for the week.

[Jro91]

Morning guys,

on wendsday during heavy 12 week overheadpress i injured my levator scapulae (probably from youtube/internet pain describtions) so I found out that I should lay off from overhead press for few days (then I need to check my 10rep max because my form was horrible)
So my question is is there any other shoulder excersise to just do on medium and light day so I can replace OHP?I was thinking about dumbell flies or something like that.I've red that I should not do any over head movements for like 4-5 days.

Thank you for help!

[nightanole]

Morning guys,

on wendsday during heavy 12 week overheadpress i injured my levator scapulae (probably from youtube/internet pain describtions) so I found out that I should lay off from overhead press for few days (then I need to check my 10rep max because my form was horrible)
So my question is is there any other shoulder excersise to just do on medium and light day so I can replace OHP?I was thinking about dumbell flies or something like that.I've red that I should not do any over head movements for like 4-5 days.

Thank you for help!

The alt to the OHP is the seated arnold press. You could do this very very light(say 25-33% of working weight for 10 reps). the reason for this is if its a muscle pull, you want to "heal in motion". If its a connective tissue problem, thats when you lay off of it for 4-5 days.

[friendlyfire31]

I'm looking into 3 day split programs.
All of the programs vary so much. From one source to another there is twice as much exercises, twice as much reps, etc, different muscle groups. Half of programs suggest legs and shoulders one day which seems overkill compared to chest/triceps day. There's no consistency.

What was expecting to find some sort of fundamentals and general guidelines but everything so distorted.
Only legit advice i found that beginners should aim at free weights and Isolated one muscle exercises are for pros. Everything else varies substantially from one source to another. It's a mess.

I think i need bodybuilding 101 course or book. Any recommendations?

[nightanole]

I'm looking into 3 day split programs.
All of the programs vary so much. From one source to another there is twice as much exercises, twice as much reps, etc, different muscle groups. Half of programs suggest legs and shoulders one day which seems overkill compared to chest/triceps day. There's no consistency.

What was expecting to find some sort of fundamentals and general guidelines but everything so distorted.
Only legit advice i found that beginners should aim at free weights and Isolated one muscle exercises are for pros. Everything else varies substantially from one source to another. It's a mess.

I think i need bodybuilding 101 course or book. Any recommendations?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=166216941

For books:
Practical Programming for Strength Training
greyskull LP
5/3/1

[jmitchell79]

Hey guys I did this program originally back in 2012 and I liked the concept. But when I started it, I was already regularly lifting and trying various programs. So fast forward to now and I'm 70lbs higher, I'm not active at all and I'm starting from scratch. I invested in equipment for a home gym and have everything I need to do this program. But even the bar is hard on some exercises like SLDL because of my weak back/hamstrings. Should I just start with the bar and work on everything slowly kind of like the beginning of Strong Lifts 5x5 program?

[nightanole]

Hey guys I did this program originally back in 2012 and I liked the concept. But when I started it, I was already regularly lifting and trying various programs. So fast forward to now and I'm 70lbs higher, I'm not active at all and I'm starting from scratch. I invested in equipment for a home gym and have everything I need to do this program. But even the bar is hard on some exercises like SLDL because of my weak back/hamstrings. Should I just start with the bar and work on everything slowly kind of like the beginning of Strong Lifts 5x5 program?

Or you could find a used "standard" set that has a 10-15lb bar, and use that for anything with a working weight under 55lbs.