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  1. #6211
    Registered User zoom008's Avatar
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    I've been reading through the posts and will be starting this workout in the next week or 2. I'm a little confused on the diet part. I'm 5'11 166lbs and body fat is over 20% (judging from pics and online calculators), bmi 23.1. I'm a weakling with very little muscle.

    My plan was to follow your guide and eat 2100 cal, 100g protein, 100g fat, 200g carb. until I got to 13% body fat.

    I read your post above where you say if you are below bmi of 24 you should be at a surplus. Should I eat at a surplus even though I'm over 13% body fat? or give it a try at 2100 cal and if i'm failing my lifts increase the calories?

    How many extra calories a day would you consider to be a good surplus to start at? 200 cal?
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  2. #6212
    Registered User Jro91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zoom008 View Post
    I've been reading through the posts and will be starting this workout in the next week or 2. I'm a little confused on the diet part. I'm 5'11 166lbs and body fat is over 20% (judging from pics and online calculators), bmi 23.1. I'm a weakling with very little muscle.

    My plan was to follow your guide and eat 2100 cal, 100g protein, 100g fat, 200g carb. until I got to 13% body fat.

    I read your post above where you say if you are below bmi of 24 you should be at a surplus. Should I eat at a surplus even though I'm over 13% body fat? or give it a try at 2100 cal and if i'm failing my lifts increase the calories?

    How many extra calories a day would you consider to be a good surplus to start at? 200 cal?
    Newbie here,

    If I would give u advice u should do surplus bmi 25 and put on some muscle and after that cut to 22 bmi.
    If ur skinny there is no need to cut body/belly fat u will end up skinnier than now.
    cheers
    Last edited by Jro91; 09-21-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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  3. #6213
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zoom008 View Post
    I've been reading through the posts and will be starting this workout in the next week or 2. I'm a little confused on the diet part. I'm 5'11 166lbs and body fat is over 20% (judging from pics and online calculators), bmi 23.1. I'm a weakling with very little muscle.

    My plan was to follow your guide and eat 2100 cal, 100g protein, 100g fat, 200g carb. until I got to 13% body fat.

    I read your post above where you say if you are below bmi of 24 you should be at a surplus. Should I eat at a surplus even though I'm over 13% body fat? or give it a try at 2100 cal and if i'm failing my lifts increase the calories?

    How many extra calories a day would you consider to be a good surplus to start at? 200 cal?
    Like the other guy you got 2 choices. go down almost 1 bmi point over 1 cycle and lose the baby fat, or start the slow bulk to at least bmi 24.

    A good rule of thumb is to bulk at 1/4-1/3 the rate you can cut at without your performance suffering. So if your lifts turn to crap at a 8 pound per month cut, you shouldnt be bulking more than 2-3lbs per month.


    Let me put it another way, the end goal of this program is to bench 10 reps of bmi 24 weight, and squat 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bmi 24 body weight. Now is it going to be easier to hit 10 reps of bmi 23 weight at bmi 23, and then try to cruise to bmi 24, or is it going to be easier to get to bmi 25, and hit the 10 reps of bmi 24 weight, and then cut 10lbs of fat off while maintaining the lifts? For most people its easier to cut and maintain, vs trying to get strong at an sub optimal bmi and then trying to chaise your body weight.
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  4. #6214
    Registered User cljolley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole

    It is assumed that reps will go down as the week goes on and fatigue builds up. The 72 hours rest will strip all the fatigue off, and you should come back with a few more reps.
    What’s this 72 hour rest you speak of? Did I miss something in the auto regulated routine?
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  5. #6215
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cljolley View Post
    What’s this 72 hour rest you speak of? Did I miss something in the auto regulated routine?
    "the weekend"
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  6. #6216
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    Hi nightanole,

    I'm really excited about this workout, today I did my "test weight day" so I could figure out what is the right weight to use.

    *Squats: 14 rep - Only bar
    Bench Presses: 7 rep - 20kg + bar
    *Bent-Over Rows: 14 rep - 5kg + bar | 12 rep - 10kg + bar
    Overhead Barbell Presses: 6 rep - 2kg + bar
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: 16rep - 10kg (I just can reach to the knee)
    Barbell Curls: 12rep - 10kg + ez curl bar
    *Calf Raises: 18rep - 10kg + bar | 16 - 15kg + bar

    I try it to do all the excercises in a control manner, trying to keep a perfect form. I have some questions related to the weight I should use to the program, i think i underestimate the weight for some excercises


    1. When Ii try to do what you said in this post about how to choose weight the calculation in the post appear to be wrong The 10 rep max, for 95lb@12rep is 100lb but in the post you said 116lb. I use the calculator you suggest it ( I can'post links sorry)

    2. Should I try again the test day, to add a little more weight to the excercises with the star?

    Thanks
    Last edited by IsmaK; 09-22-2018 at 09:26 AM.
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  7. #6217
    Registered User cljolley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    "the weekend"
    Okay but I thought we were 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 2 off...
    That’s only 48 hours rest. Am I missing something?
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  8. #6218
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cljolley View Post
    Okay but I thought we were 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 2 off...
    That’s only 48 hours rest. Am I missing something?
    If you work out every 24 hours, that is once a day
    If you work out every 48 hours, that is every other day
    If you take 2 days off on the weekend, that is 72 hours...
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  9. #6219
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IsmaK View Post
    Hi nightanole,

    I'm really excited about this workout, today I did my "test weight day" so I could figure out what is the right weight to use.

    *Squats: 14 rep - Only bar
    Bench Presses: 7 rep - 20kg + bar
    *Bent-Over Rows: 14 rep - 5kg + bar | 12 rep - 10kg + bar
    Overhead Barbell Presses: 6 rep - 2kg + bar
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: 16rep - 10kg (I just can reach to the knee)
    Barbell Curls: 12rep - 10kg + ez curl bar
    *Calf Raises: 18rep - 10kg + bar | 16 - 15kg + bar

    I try it to do all the excercises in a control manner, trying to keep a perfect form. I have some questions related to the weight I should use to the program, i think i underestimate the weight for some excercises


    1. When Ii try to do what you said in this post about how to choose weight the calculation in the post appear to be wrong The 10 rep max, for 95lb@12rep is 100lb but in the post you said 116lb. I use the calculator you suggest it ( I can'post links sorry)

    2. Should I try again the test day, to add a little more weight to the excercises with the star?

    Thanks
    Add 5kg to the squat
    use 10kg for the row
    OHP just use the bar
    SLDL make sure you are using a straight back the entire time, most cant get past the knees with good form when they first start out. It is a ROM exercise for the hamstrings, not a power move. Once you are well balanced it should be less weight than the squat.
    calf raises its up to you, they dont have to be 8-12, they could be 16-24 etc. See if you like high rep or the standard 8-12. I can not do 8-12 or i get leg cramps at night.
    The rest of the weights look good.
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  10. #6220
    Registered User cljolley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you work out every 24 hours, that is once a day
    If you work out every 48 hours, that is every other day
    If you take 2 days off on the weekend, that is 72 hours...
    Oh I see now. God I feel like an idiot now haha. It made sense when I worked it out on the calendar but it didn’t compute in my head for some reason.
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  11. #6221
    Registered User IsmaK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Add 5kg to the squat
    use 10kg for the row
    OHP just use the bar
    SLDL make sure you are using a straight back the entire time, most cant get past the knees with good form when they first start out. It is a ROM exercise for the hamstrings, not a power move. Once you are well balanced it should be less weight than the squat.
    calf raises its up to you, they dont have to be 8-12, they could be 16-24 etc. See if you like high rep or the standard 8-12. I can not do 8-12 or i get leg cramps at night.
    The rest of the weights look good.
    Thanks for your answer man I really appreciated.
    The weight I posted, is just the weight I manage to lift today (no the one I would use). I would use the one you suggest me!

    My last question, what is your opinion about cross training? I read you said you can do other stuff in your day off after your light weight, so could do any of this one in my off days after my light weight (i.e 2x per week?)

    - Go to a BJJ / Muay Thai classes
    - Go to a Yoga / Pilate class
    - Jog 3.5km/30min
    - Swim
    - Circuit classes (most body weight)

    I guess any of that ones would be ok, because they are most cardio, I think i just should monitoring my calories intakes. I'm correct?

    Thanks
    Last edited by IsmaK; 09-22-2018 at 01:30 PM.
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  12. #6222
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IsmaK View Post
    Thanks for your answer man I really appreciated.
    The weight I posted, is just the weight I manage to lift today (no the one I would use). I would use the one you suggest me!

    My last question, what is your opinion about cross training? I read you said you can do other stuff in your day off after your light weight, so could do any of this one in my off days after my light weight (i.e 2x per week?)

    - Go to a BJJ / Muay Thai classes
    - Go to a Yoga / Pilate class
    - Jog 3.5km/30min
    - Swim
    - Circuit classes (most body weight)

    I guess any of that ones would be ok, because they are most cardio, I think i just should monitoring my calories intakes. I'm correct?

    Thanks
    You cant do true HIIT on this program, because it counts as another high rep lifting session. You can do anything with a pace you can sustain for at least 45min. So if your circuit requires no rest, and is not 60 seconds on 30 secs off etc, you are fine. You can still do soccer practice and MMA, and the recommended cardio is 3x10k jogs per week, so your jog/swim can be used.

    You may want to avoid the circuit class if its too much like HIIT, but the rest of your list looks fine.
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  13. #6223
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    I've started Auto-regulated and I have a question about adding a fourth day. Is it still preferable to leave 72 hours rest at the end of the week? So for example, if I'm currently lifting Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, would you recommend adding my fourth day on either Tuesday or Thursday and leaving the weekend open to make 72 hours rest before the next week? But then that has me lifting three days in a row, which I'm not sure is a great idea on a full body routine?
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  14. #6224
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by daveminnich View Post
    I've started Auto-regulated and I have a question about adding a fourth day. Is it still preferable to leave 72 hours rest at the end of the week? So for example, if I'm currently lifting Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, would you recommend adding my fourth day on either Tuesday or Thursday and leaving the weekend open to make 72 hours rest before the next week? But then that has me lifting three days in a row, which I'm not sure is a great idea on a full body routine?
    On auto regulated you can workout 5 days in a row if you want, the only that will happen is your rep count is going to drop like a rock. The key is always stopping at that slow rep, auto regulated is not a grinder routine like starting strength.

    And yes the 72 hour rest once a week is a must.
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  15. #6225
    Registered User daveminnich's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    On auto regulated you can workout 5 days in a row if you want, the only that will happen is your rep count is going to drop like a rock. The key is always stopping at that slow rep, auto regulated is not a grinder routine like starting strength.

    And yes the 72 hour rest once a week is a must.
    Perfect, thank you! I'm eating at maintenance for at least a couple of weeks after being in a roughly 750 calorie deficit for over a year. Seems like the perfect time to get some extra lifting in with a fourth day.
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  16. #6226
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    nightanole , if you add 10% after passing test day and you get to end of cycle and battle to pass reps , could you not drop weight 5% and try again or do you repeat cycle with that 10% less ? What i'm trying to ask is it not better to add weight even if it's not the 10% and pass than to add weight and fail and reset ? Hope this makes sense
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  17. #6227
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Time-Man View Post
    nightanole , if you add 10% after passing test day and you get to end of cycle and battle to pass reps , could you not drop weight 5% and try again or do you repeat cycle with that 10% less ? What i'm trying to ask is it not better to add weight even if it's not the 10% and pass than to add weight and fail and reset ? Hope this makes sense
    Unfortunatly it doesnt work with less than 10% bumps.

    With 10% bumps the "next" cycle goes like this:

    week 1 2.5-3.33% mini deload
    week 2 same stress as last cycles test week
    week 3 3.33% harder than test week
    week 4 6.66% harder than test week
    week 5 10% harder than test week


    If you run the numbers with a 5% bump, you are deloading 3 weeks, and only week 4 is tougher than the previous test week, and how are you going to get stronger if the last 3 weeks were easier than the previous test day?

    You are better off repeating with the same weight, and trying to increase bar speed on heavy day, and trying to decrease rest time on medium and light days.

    Even if you pass every other cycle, that is still 5% progression. Even with that "slow" pace, you will go from lifting 100lbs, to 180lbs, in a year.
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  18. #6228
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    Tnx nightanole , so it works more with total volume moved than with individual weight single rep , makes sense , one more question if you pass test and weight was 75kg then next up is 75kg+7.5kg = 82.5kg , what would be the best way to go ? up to 83kg or down to 82kg ? i have 1kg plates for micro increments so you you round off to higher value or lower value ? Sorry for being pedantic
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  19. #6229
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Time-Man View Post
    Tnx nightanole , so it works more with total volume moved than with individual weight single rep , makes sense , one more question if you pass test and weight was 75kg then next up is 75kg+7.5kg = 82.5kg , what would be the best way to go ? up to 83kg or down to 82kg ? i have 1kg plates for micro increments so you you round off to higher value or lower value ? Sorry for being pedantic
    If you had solid form and speed on the last rep, i would round up. If its a "maybe pass" you can use test weeks light day, and try for 1 set of 10 with the new weight, if you get in 10 reps you are gold.
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  20. #6230
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    Hello Night,

    I currently doing auto-regulated and I was planning to add Biceps excercise as I can feel the struggle with my rows and I want them to be improved.

    I was planning to do drop sets for either preacher curls on machine (3 drops) but will 1 set be enough or should I do more, other alternative is curls in form of (6-20 reps) drop set, also not sure how many sets should I aim for?

    also I will add triceps extention but not quite sure best way to perform them in terms of reps/sets without affecting big lifts.

    I only can do 2 days/week and also squeezing 45 mins cardio each session, meaning i have around 3 days rest between sessions, I believe I shouldn't get any slow reps for 2nd day, Correct? or what I should expect?

    I have been on regulated for a while now due to my travels, I am deloading this week (10%) in order to catch up but I am sensing a slow progress (this 1st cycle is taking forever !!)
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  21. #6231
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ahmedhappy312 View Post
    Hello Night,

    I currently doing auto-regulated and I was planning to add Biceps excercise as I can feel the struggle with my rows and I want them to be improved.

    I was planning to do drop sets for either preacher curls on machine (3 drops) but will 1 set be enough or should I do more, other alternative is curls in form of (6-20 reps) drop set, also not sure how many sets should I aim for?

    also I will add triceps extention but not quite sure best way to perform them in terms of reps/sets without affecting big lifts.

    I only can do 2 days/week and also squeezing 45 mins cardio each session, meaning i have around 3 days rest between sessions, I believe I shouldn't get any slow reps for 2nd day, Correct? or what I should expect?

    I have been on regulated for a while now due to my travels, I am deloading this week (10%) in order to catch up but I am sensing a slow progress (this 1st cycle is taking forever !!)
    Preacher curls are a no no, they are the #1 bicep tear exercise, right next to mix grip deadlifts.

    If you want a good curl to match the program, try seated incline(seat leaned back) supenation curls, or standing hammer grip.

    For tricep, i highly recommend skull crushers with alot of eblow movement. This means that at lockout the eblow is inline with the shoulder, but at the bottom the eblow is at or above the eye line. This method hits the long head harder vs the fixed eblow variant.

    As for your "stall" or what ever, just keep increasing the complex carbs as long as you are not putting on much fat

    It only takes 5lbs of muscle gain to turn a 250cal bulk into a 250 cal cut.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Preacher curls are a no no, they are the #1 bicep tear exercise, right next to mix grip deadlifts.

    If you want a good curl to match the program, try seated incline(seat leaned back) supenation curls, or standing hammer grip.

    For tricep, i highly recommend skull crushers with alot of eblow movement. This means that at lockout the eblow is inline with the shoulder, but at the bottom the eblow is at or above the eye line. This method hits the long head harder vs the fixed eblow variant.

    As for your "stall" or what ever, just keep increasing the complex carbs as long as you are not putting on much fat

    It only takes 5lbs of muscle gain to turn a 250cal bulk into a 250 cal cut.
    how to train either biceps/triceps how many sets? reps? are drop sets fine or not?

    also you didn't feedback whether 2 days/week are enough or should I try to squeeze another day

    I am not putting fat but I doubt that I am putting muscles as well
    Last edited by ahmedhappy312; 09-27-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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    In regards to the auto regulated version, what effect would doing three sets instead of two (still with a rep goal of 24 total) have on the effectiveness of the program? In my mind, it would allow for the use of slightly heavier weights than doing two sets, but I'm wondering if it would have negative effects on training progress doing it that way. Thoughts?
    Last edited by daveminnich; 09-27-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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    Originally Posted by ahmedhappy312 View Post
    how to train either biceps/triceps how many sets? reps? are drop sets fine or not?

    also you didn't feedback whether 2 days/week are enough or should I try to squeeze another day

    I am not putting fat but I doubt that I am putting muscles as well
    I dont know how many sets to add. I would start out with 1 set to failure, with a weight that keeps you from going above 12 reps.

    2 days a week is fine, even 1 day a week is fine. Yes gains will be slower if you reduce frequency, so the guy doing 3x a week is going to be gaining faster than the guy doing 2x a week. But everybody will be gaining muscle if they are working to near failure at least once a week.
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    Originally Posted by daveminnich View Post
    In regards to the auto regulated version, what effect would doing three sets instead of two (still with a rep goal of 24 total) have on the effectiveness of the program? In my mind, it would allow for the use of slightly heavier weights than doing two sets, but I'm wondering if it would have negative effects on training progress doing it that way. Thoughts?
    No negative effects. Like you said the only difference is you will be working with heavier working weight. Odds are you will be taking a little longer to bump vs the higher rep 2 sets, because you are working closer to your 1rm, and that means a longer recovery period. At this point we are splitting hairs since the working weight between 3 sets and 2 sets is only going to be about 10%.
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    If you have to miss a light day workout then should you just do the following heavy workout the very next day (if possible)? Or should you push the light workout back a day, do it, then rest 2 days then do the next heavy? Ordinarily I wouldn't be too concerned about this but since the next heavy day for me is test day I don't want to cheat.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    I dont know how many sets to add. I would start out with 1 set to failure, with a weight that keeps you from going above 12 reps.

    2 days a week is fine, even 1 day a week is fine. Yes gains will be slower if you reduce frequency, so the guy doing 3x a week is going to be gaining faster than the guy doing 2x a week. But everybody will be gaining muscle if they are working to near failure at least once a week.
    I would appreciate a piece of advice on how to progress on curls and skull crushers??
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    Originally Posted by ahmedhappy312 View Post
    I would appreciate a piece of advice on how to progress on curls and skull crushers??
    Generally there isnt a progression scheme for accessory. You program them in for more volume on that spot. If 10 reps of 45lb skull crushers finishes out the tricep and doesnt stall out the bench, thats what you do. progressing to 55lbs might cause a stall on the bench, since the bench should be progressing. If skull crushers remain fixed, and bench is progressing, then volume and progressive overload is increasing on the tricep.

    If you really wanted a progression scheme for the curls and skull crushers, you are doing reps till failure, so every time you hit 12 reps, add 10% more weight next time so it knocks you down to 8-9 reps again. Then just work your way up again.
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    Originally Posted by bjw11180 View Post
    If you have to miss a light day workout then should you just do the following heavy workout the very next day (if possible)? Or should you push the light workout back a day, do it, then rest 2 days then do the next heavy? Ordinarily I wouldn't be too concerned about this but since the next heavy day for me is test day I don't want to cheat.
    You skip the light day. You can do that once or twice a cycle. You cant cheat test day unless you miss medium and light day. Doing medium on a weds, and then test the next monday is not cheating.
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    Nightanole, it seems like you're not completely against calculated added accessory work.

    Would you mind naming 1/2 exercises that you think work best as an accessory for each body part?

    Sorry if this is a tedious question and if you don't have the knowledge to hand then no worries.
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