AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[mituandrei]

try romanian dl

[nightanole]

We don't have a squat rack in the gym, so I had to use the smith machine for squats. I am experiencing severe upper back pain after squats which doesn't usually when I do it with a barbell. Please suggest me the proper way to use a smith machine for squat.

9/10 the lifter pushes forward on the rails to relieve their posterior chain on the smith squat, and rely more on their quads. Odds are that is what happened. You aligned yourself improperly, the weight was not centered mid foot, and you leaned into it and odds are even changed back angle thoughout the rep.

You might be better off doing the zercher squat with a towel vs the smith machine...

If you are are starting out light, might want to look into goblet squats till you cant find heavy enough dumb bells.

[nightanole]

how can i cut this workout to 45 min

It is 30-45min If you dont rest between exercises and keep rests between sets to less than 90 seconds.

[EnTaroTassadar]

So, what do we do when our weight is so low that 1/4 of it is less than a barbell? for example, im only squatting 85lb. 1/4 of that is 21.25, making it less than the barbell. Do i use free weights? or nothing. I know, im squishy.

[EnTaroTassadar]

also i see "all pro math" being uesd several times, i dont understand where this is, and how things are being done. also, im using weight that i can do 8 times probably no more than, that's right, right?

[wick825]

also i see "all pro math" being uesd several times, i dont understand where this is, and how things are being done. also, im using weight that i can do 8 times probably no more than, that's right, right?

You want to start at a weight that you can do 10 times.

I don't have 50 posts, so I can't post the link, but go to Page 1 under Night's FAQ post and Q2 will take you to the link. Make sure you read through the whole FAQ section, it'll answer most questions people might have.

[EnTaroTassadar]

You want to start at a weight that you can do 10 times.

got you, any input on my other post pg 199 of this thread

[wick825]

got you, any input on my other post pg 199 of this thread

That one is more of a Nightanole question when he's able to pop in here.

BTW, I added to the 10 rep reply to help you out a little more.

[EnTaroTassadar]

That one is more of a Nightanole question when he's able to pop in here.

BTW, I added to the 10 rep reply to help you out a little more.

thanks man, im gonna check it out now.

[nightanole]

So, what do we do when our weight is so low that 1/4 of it is less than a barbell? for example, im only squatting 85lb. 1/4 of that is 21.25, making it less than the barbell. Do i use free weights? or nothing. I know, im squishy.

You have to "mimic the movement". If you are using a bar bell for the main lift, you must use something like a bar bell for the warmups. That means at least 1 warmup set of say nothing, just a plastic pipe or broom handle. Most gyms have fixed girly bars you could also use for a warmup. Most gyms are not going to have 45lb bars and up, because most people are not going to be able to OHP 45lbs for 10 reps. Look around, there should be some aluminum "technique" bars that weigh 10lbs, etc.

So rig up an unloaded first warmup set, then the 45lb bar for the second warmup set. You dont have to adjust for heavy medium light, on light day the final warmup can be 2/3-3/4 of your working weight.

The whole point of the 2 light warmup sets is just to have you mimic the movement so your cns is primed to do the real lift. Left unchecked most n00bs spend 15-20min "warming up" and do so many warmup sets you cant tell when the warmups end and the worksets start. Its a 30-45min routine, if you are warming up more than 10 for all lifts combined, then "warming up" is 25-33% of your routine, and wasted IMO.

[nightanole]

also i see "all pro math" being uesd several times, i dont understand where this is, and how things are being done. also, im using weight that i can do 8 times probably no more than, that's right, right?

Allpro math means a weight you can lift 12 times, is a weight you can lift 9 times with 110%.

So 12 reps of 100lbs should be just as hard as 9 reps of 110lbs. Allpro does have a 8 rep deload week just to let you get used to the new working weight.

[Jro91]

Sounds like you want shoulders and v taper, not dips...

So that means more upward presses and downward pulls.

So i would check out some push presses with alot of knee flexion(not just a bit of knee to get the weight going), upright bar bell rows(these could even replace the curl) with a grip that ends the rep at shoulder level(you dont want the elbows to ears version) and a chinup with the opposite grip of your row.

As for reps/sets of accessories. Normally i just recommend starting with 1 AMRAP set per session till you can tell if its affecting the core program(you dont want to stall on rows because you went nutts on chinups).
If you are NOT having trouble with the core program, you can use the accessory as volume and pick a weight you can do at least 12 reps with, and you could add weight once you reach 18-24 reps(you want to be fatigued not tired). If the accessory is to build up a weakness in the core program, then we go the other direction and the weight should be heavy enough you only get 2-3 reps in, and you add weight if you get 5 reps.

Chinups and dips(if you do them), can be done grease-the-groove style (half your max 5-10 times a day at least 45min apart) 5 days a week other than the 72 hours before the heavy.

Hi Night,

today is my light 12-rep day,just want to confirm about for of upright barbell row.
On YT Scott Herman is saying that you should keep elbows upper than ur grip so if I should end at shoulder level it means that elbows should be same heigh as grip?wouldnt it be dangerous?
Sorry cant find any more videos for upright row which are not hatefull lol
THANKS!

[nightanole]

Hi Night,

today is my light 12-rep day,just want to confirm about for of upright barbell row.
On YT Scott Herman is saying that you should keep elbows upper than ur grip so if I should end at shoulder level it means that elbows should be same heigh as grip?wouldnt it be dangerous?
Sorry cant find any more videos for upright row which are not hatefull lol
THANKS!

Get a bar bell. Start with a narrow grip and pull your elbows up till you lock out(run out of range of motion). Are your elbows above your shoulders? If so widen your grip till you cant get your elbows past your shoulders.

The "dangerous" version is the one where you get your elbows to your ear line or higher. In that version, depending on your bone structure, you may end up flossing your rotator cuff with your connective tissue.


As for you odd grip issue, you dont want to be lifting with the hand if that makes any sense. Im sure once you try the exercise your question will be moot. Your goal is to get your elbows up, the rest is just along for the ride.

[bjw11180]

Get a bar bell. Start with a narrow grip and pull your elbows up till you lock out(run out of range of motion). Are your elbows above your shoulders? If so widen your grip till you cant get your elbows past your shoulders.

The "dangerous" version is the one where you get your elbows to your ear line or higher. In that version, depending on your bone structure, you may end up flossing your rotator cuff with your connective tissue.


As for you odd grip issue, you dont want to be lifting with the hand if that makes any sense. Im sure once you try the exercise your question will be moot. Your goal is to get your elbows up, the rest is just along for the ride.

It seems like with the narrower grip and going "elbows to ears" I can work with more weight. Is that normal? I managed to pass 80 x 2 x 12 a few weeks back with a narrow grip but since going to the wider grip I only seem to be able to get about 20 reps at 80 lbs.

[nightanole]

It seems like with the narrower grip and going "elbows to ears" I can work with more weight. Is that normal? I managed to pass 80 x 2 x 12 a few weeks back with a narrow grip but since going to the wider grip I only seem to be able to get about 20 reps at 80 lbs.

The shoulder is a complex muscle group. Different sets of muscles are used depending on grip width, and how high you go. Im sure you noticed that around shoulder height "another" group kicks in.

Try this for an experiment:

The worse side delt raise is the the pinkie up variant, "so you can feel it". That is guaranteed to mess with your rotator cuff over time.
Now get a stick long enough to mimic your narrow grip upright row.
Lock out said upright row(odds are elbow to ears), let go of the stick with 1 hand and swing your arm out. It will be in the exact pinkie up lockout position as the bad side delt raise.

Now do the same thing with a wide grip upright row. If done right your thumb knuckle will be higher than the pinkie knuckle. That is the correct form for the upright row and side delt/lateral raise.

[BigPrimo33]

Sorry if this has been asked but can I substitute Facepulls for the upright rows or should I stick with curls?

[nightanole]

Sorry if this has been asked but can I substitute Facepulls for the upright rows or should I stick with curls?

upright rows or chinups.

You can do face pulls as an accessory after the main workout however. You are allowed up to 2 accessories in addition to the core workout.

[bjw11180]

Wut? All reps should with max bar speed in mind. Yes you shouldnt go nuts and lose control/form. As i stated a few times, if you slow down the bar speed to get more reps in, you dogged the weight. That act will make for poor cns patterns. When the lifter adds weight, bare speed will drop a lot more vs the the lifter that pushes hard. If bar speed is not fast enough, you will get stuck at transition points in the lift, and miss the rep. These points are a few inches above the chest in the bench, and just above parallel on the squat, as examples. On a pendlay row or deadlift, if you are not 100% breaking off the floor, you will not have enough momentum at lockout, and will end up hitching or not hitting your chest.

I guess i could compare it to sprinting.

Instead of going all out on the 100m dash, instead you get a slower 100m time, but dash 150m(because otherwise you would collapse trying to run 150m at full speed). Which is going to improve your 100m dash?

In the case of natty lifting, the ONLY thing you need to worry about is increasing your 1rm. That is the ONLY thing that will increase your muscle size. So every rep should be treated like you are going for a 1 rep max.

If you read that article on quality reps, the guy even says "The final rep on any max set, has the same bar speed as an actual 1 rep max".

So if on test day you video your final rep on squats, and "just made it", it should look the same ,and have the same bar speed, as if you did 150% of your working weight for 1 rep. Now for the "dogger" that will be an impossible feat, odds are they might get pinned with only 120-125%, and that weight is only 2 cycles away.


And for anyone else reading this and doing allpro, please dont go out and put 125-150% on the bar and goto town. You risk hurting yourself because even though you are strong enough, you are only strong in the 8-12 rep range. The 5 reppers might be able to do a 1 rep max test and not get hurt, but all pro'rs really shouldnt be testing anything lower than a triple, which is 90% of your 1rm.

Going back to this, is it to be expected that if one goes from dogging reps at weight X to not dogging them at the same weight X (i.e. now I'm pushing hard and going for max bar speed possible while maintaining proper form) then one will manage fewer reps? I've never missed reps of BP on 10-rep week until this cycle, where I've gotten only 10,9 on 10-rep week and then 11,7 on 11-rep week (2 days ago).

[nightanole]

Going back to this, is it to be expected that if one goes from dogging reps at weight X to not dogging them at the same weight X (i.e. now I'm pushing hard and going for max bar speed possible while maintaining proper form) then one will manage fewer reps? I've never missed reps of BP on 10-rep week until this cycle, where I've gotten only 10,9 on 10-rep week and then 11,7 on 11-rep week (2 days ago).

Yup you will drop reps, when going from dogging to all max effort. However this goes away once you get used to the new cns pattern, and rep increases will come pretty fast. And as stated, with max effort, adding weight will not cause abnormally large bar speed decreases.

So it could be that you just dogged it to pass last test day, and the new weight caused a greater than average bar speed reduction, and that is causing the missed reps on 10 rep week (which should never happen, even on a cut).

So id say you are going to fail this test day, and pass the next one with flying colors.

[BlessedHolloway]

I cycle between 10 & 11 miles every day. I know this isn't much but I worry it will effect my performance on my heavy day!

Luckily I've been off work for the past 2 weeks so haven't had to cycle, but I go back tomorrow.

Should I just power through & try anyway, or will the cycling be a substitute for a lift focusing on the legs etc?

[nightanole]

I cycle between 10 & 11 miles every day. I know this isn't much but I worry it will effect my performance on my heavy day!

Luckily I've been off work for the past 2 weeks so haven't had to cycle, but I go back tomorrow.

Should I just power through & try anyway, or will the cycling be a substitute for a lift focusing on the legs etc?

it shouldnt matter. Eat 50-100g of your daily carbs after the ride, and you should be good for the workout. Best case is to cycle after the workout. However it sounds like you cycle 5 miles to work, and 5 miles from work, which is even less impactful. So again i would not worry about it as long as you adjust your carbs as needed.

If someone can walk 20-30 miles a day at a warehouse job and get this routine done, you should have a problem either.

[RonXdude]

Hi nightanole

I am on cycle 4 of allpro.

78kg/22% body fat - trying to keep my nutrition in check on this cut.

My lifts:
Squats - 80kg
Bench - 60kg (failing)
Bent over row - 50kg
Shoulder Press - 30kg
SLDL - 50kg
Barbell curl - 25kg
Seated Calf Raises - 30kg

Added:
Middle grip Pull ups - 2 x 8 reps, assisted, slowly.
Egyptian Chair Leg Raises - 3 x 10 reps

I am planning on sticking onto this until 6 cycles, but as I took breaks, sometimes only went gym once a week etc, I am hoping I get to my body fat % goal soon before I get bored. Realistically I have been using this workout since 01/02/2018 and lost around 5% body fat (7 kgs) so far.

Is everything looking OK and is my plan OK to stick? Are my lifts proportionate?

Will possibly move to a Upper Lower or something different from this afterwards just for variety's sake.

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole

I am on cycle 4 of allpro.

78kg/22% body fat - trying to keep my nutrition in check on this cut.

My lifts:
Squats - 80kg
Bench - 60kg (failing)
Bent over row - 50kg
Shoulder Press - 30kg
SLDL - 50kg
Barbell curl - 25kg
Seated Calf Raises - 30kg

Added:
Middle grip Pull ups - 2 x 8 reps, assisted, slowly.
Egyptian Chair Leg Raises - 3 x 10 reps

I am planning on sticking onto this until 6 cycles, but as I took breaks, sometimes only went gym once a week etc, I am hoping I get to my body fat % goal soon before I get bored. Realistically I have been using this workout since 01/02/2018 and lost around 5% body fat (7 kgs) so far.

Is everything looking OK and is my plan OK to stick? Are my lifts proportionate?

Will possibly move to a Upper Lower or something different from this afterwards just for variety's sake.

Lets run some numbers:

You should be 70kg at 13%. If you use those number you are Very close to the end of the program. The only thing low is your OHP, it should be 40-45kg.

I normally recommend greyskull LP (/fit) or mad cow for the next program after allpro. You could also try jason blahas linear hypertrophy routine, however it is for true intermediates that can only add less than 5%(odds are less than 2.5%, and that is a huge 33% per year gain) per cycle.

[bjw11180]

Lets run some numbers:

You should be 70kg at 13%. If you use those number you are Very close to the end of the program. The only thing low is your OHP, it should be 40-45kg.

I normally recommend greyskull LP (/fit) or mad cow for the next program after allpro. You could also try jason blahas linear hypertrophy routine, however it is for true intermediates that can only add less than 5%(odds are less than 2.5%, and that is a huge 33% per year gain) per cycle.

When you say "You should be 70 kg at 13%," what does this mean exactly? Is the 70 kg total body weight?

[nightanole]

When you say "You should be 70 kg at 13%," what does this mean exactly? Is the 70 kg total body weight?

Yup. If your run 78kg 22%, find lean mass, and reroll for 13% same mass, you get 70kg. Odds are he "might" lose 1kg of muscle, but we are splitting hairs at that point, hell he might gain 1kg of lean mass and end up at 71kg.

Plus he never put if he was 1m tall or 2m...

[BlessedHolloway]

it shouldnt matter. Eat 50-100g of your daily carbs after the ride, and you should be good for the workout. Best case is to cycle after the workout. However it sounds like you cycle 5 miles to work, and 5 miles from work, which is even less impactful. So again i would not worry about it as long as you adjust your carbs as needed.

If someone can walk 20-30 miles a day at a warehouse job and get this routine done, you should have a problem either.

Great thanks alot! Just overthinking things I guess lol.

Thank you so much for your contributions on here your a real help to alot of ppl man.

[bjw11180]

Yup. If your run 78kg 22%, find lean mass, and reroll for 13% same mass, you get 70kg. Odds are he "might" lose 1kg of muscle, but we are splitting hairs at that point, hell he might gain 1kg of lean mass and end up at 71kg.

Plus he never put if he was 1m tall or 2m...

So I guess to make this calculation one needs to know one's current bf percentage huh.

[nightanole]

So I guess to make this calculation one needs to know one's current bf percentage huh.

Well you want to be bmi 24 @13% towards the end of the program. That is "athletic lean" and about as lean as you can maintain with peak performance. Most non pro MMA fighters are around that, going veiny may drop you a weight class, but it drastically reduces performance. So we are still talking atleast 10lbs of fat loss before a six pack.


If you really want to know, the 3-6 point caliper test is accurate to around 2-3% and the calipers are only a few bucks.

[JohnyBoay]

Is this type of workout good? muscleandstrength.com/workouts/3-day-full-body-dumbbell-workout

I want to do a lean bulk of 250 calories of surplus. What kind of results can i expect with this workout. I have only access to dumbells and pullup bar. What is the best workout with dumbell and pullup bar only?

Thanks!

[nightanole]

Is this type of workout good? muscleandstrength.com/workouts/3-day-full-body-dumbbell-workout

I want to do a lean bulk of 250 calories of surplus. What kind of results can i expect with this workout. I have only access to dumbells and pullup bar. What is the best workout with dumbell and pullup bar only?

Thanks!

Stats of you and the dumb bells will help...