AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[emrey09]

Grease the groove does not affect recovery. People can do 1000 reps a week even with a 10-15 rep max. Its multiple sub maximal sets, which affect recovery the least. You know what affects recovery the most? Negatives...

You might be able to them band assisted at home/work/school if you can find a bar and pick a band that will allow you to do at least 6 reps so you can grease the groove with 2-3 reps.

İ talked about negative reps in grease the grove.
İ can buy a pullup bar, bands and do it on my rest days so. Thanks i will try this.

[sqal]

How does this program compare to the 5x5 routine? I've been doing the 5x5 for a few months now and recently upped the sets to 10 (for upper body).

I read that one should aim for at least 10 sets per week and the hypertrophy is quite a bit higher for 20 sets per week. Also, I feel that after 5 sets I don't quite have the burn I did when I first started working out.

I forgot to add that I do all the exercises in your workout in my 5x5 except I do regular deadlifts.

[nightanole]

How does this program compare to the 5x5 routine? I've been doing the 5x5 for a few months now and recently upped the sets to 10 (for upper body).

I read that one should aim for at least 10 sets per week and the hypertrophy is quite a bit higher for 20 sets per week. Also, I feel that after 5 sets I don't quite have the burn I did when I first started working out.

I forgot to add that I do all the exercises in your workout in my 5x5 except I do regular deadlifts.

Most people burn out on 5x5 after about 90 days. Then its 3x5 till about the first year mark. After that the popular programs start with a few sub maximal sets followed by some sort of all out set, either AMRAP or some other pattern such as 5/3/1, greyskull LP, or madcow(ramping sets).

If you are normal weight, this program will last 5-7 cycles, getting you to 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats, and have you at a bmi of 24 and around 13% bf. If you want to be 200lbs with a 405 dead, this isnt the program for you.

[sqal]

I was always under the impression that you would continually add volume as you progressed. Good to know about the burning out.

I'm 5'9 and was extremely skinny until I started bulking and sadly didn't workout enough. I was 120 lbs but now I'm 165, I figure most of this weight is fat. I'm currently still bulking because my arms are really tiny (used to be anorexic). I don't really have any goals of moving big weights as I just want to grow my arms as fast as possible and was unsure if I'm going the right direction or not.

Thanks for the help man, greatly appreciated.

[emrey09]

Hey i started this allpros auto regulated version this week.
First day i was doing 3 minute rest on the program. İ felt great. But on auto regulated version it says i need to rest 90 seconds max. İ tried that today it was too hard, the workout felt like cardio and i had form breakdown more.
İ stopped workout after finishing ohp.
İs it really necesarry to rest 90 seconds ? Can i rest 3 minutes ?

And bent over rows seems to not fit my body type i feel so weird when i do them, even with light weights. Can i do pendlay instead ?
İ even think to change to anohter program like fierce 5 , but i lost months doing program hopping and i dont want to wait another month until my real working weight comes up with another program

[nightanole]

Hey i started this allpros auto regulated version this week.
First day i was doing 3 minute rest on the program. İ felt great. But on auto regulated version it says i need to rest 90 seconds max. İ tried that today it was too hard, the workout felt like cardio and i had form breakdown more.
İ stopped workout after finishing ohp.
İs it really necesarry to rest 90 seconds ? Can i rest 3 minutes ?
İ even think to change to anohter program like fierce 5 , but i lost months doing program hopping and i dont want to wait another month until my real working weight comes up with another program

The 90 seconds(or less, some use 30 seconds on light days) is mandatory. This is a fatigue based training style and you are not allowed to recover for the 2nd set. if you want to try a program with manditory 3min or longer rests, check out greyskull LP, you can run that program till around a 5 plate deadlift.

And if you are strong enough to need pendlay(bent over rowing well over 135 for 10 reps), you shouldnt be running a beginner program.

[emrey09]

The 90 seconds(or less, some use 30 seconds on light days) is mandatory. This is a fatigue based training style and you are not allowed to recover for the 2nd set. if you want to try a program with manditory 3min or longer rests, check out greyskull LP, you can run that program till around a 5 plate deadlift.

And if you are strong enough to need pendlay(bent over rowing well over 135 for 10 reps), you shouldnt be running a beginner program.

İ prefer doing low reps. İ was thinking doing high reps can be better but not so much. When i do low reps i dont have form breakdown.
Greyskull lp has alot variations. Which one should i use ?

[nightanole]

İ prefer doing low reps. İ was thinking doing high reps can be better but not so much. When i do low reps i dont have form breakdown.
Greyskull lp has alot variations. Which one should i use ?

/fit with the arms plugin.

[emrey09]

/fit with the arms plugin.

İt looks similar to phraks greyskull lp.
Can i add arm.plugins to phraks gslp and run it ?
And i pull sumo on deadlift. İ want to do a assistance work like good mornings.

[nightanole]

İt looks similar to phraks greyskull lp.
Can i add arm.plugins to phraks gslp and run it ?
And i pull sumo on deadlift. İ want to do a assistance work like good mornings.

Cant comment on phrak modifications, phrak is a redditor who doesnt lift and made "phraks" to compliment his massive calisthenics routine he does. Im not sure the success rate, but phrak never got above a 2 plate squat.

But yea you can roll what you want into greyskull as long as it doesnt affect the core lifts progression. N00bs dont need the arms plugin, but around 6 months in its a good idea to add the arms and the /fit variant will help with the delt/pulling that will show up as a weakness if you just do the core program.

[polivoks]

Last week was my 10 rep week. And it felt easier then 8th and 9th rep week.
Finally gained stable 1kg bodyweight whole last week (79.5) so that might had an effect on strength?
But yesterday started 11 rep heavy day and it was all kind of hard to finish,
maybe weakness was caused by bit of hangover from night before
(that also caused to gain 80.5kg of alcohol weight i guess). 😁

So want to make sure that im not forcing myself too much and increase chance of passing test day.
Here is current routine stats with working weights on heavy/medium/easy so please check if there is need to can change, remove something?

Boxed squat 80kg/72.5kg/65kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
Novice bench 70kg/62.5kg/57.5kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
Row 70kg/62.5kg/57.5kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
OHP 40kg/37.5kg/35kg/
SLDL 90kg/82.5kg/75kg

Calf raises 2 sets 50 reps with 15kg plate
Upright row 2 sets 30kg/27kg/25kg/
Cable Curl 2 sets 52.5kg/47.5kg/42.5kg/
Chinups 1 set round 10 reps
Dips 1 set round 10 reps
Pullups 1 set round 5 reps

Farmer Walks kettlebell each hand 25kg/30kg
Finish with some abs kettlebell 16kg workouts 1 set each

[nightanole]

Last week was my 10 rep week. And it felt easier then 8th and 9th rep week.
Finally gained stable 1kg bodyweight whole last week (79.5) so that might had an effect on strength?
But yesterday started 11 rep heavy day and it was all kind of hard to finish,
maybe weakness was caused by bit of hangover from night before
(that also caused to gain 80.5kg of alcohol weight i guess). ������

So want to make sure that im not forcing myself too much and increase chance of passing test day.
Here is current routine stats with working weights on heavy/medium/easy so please check if there is need to can change, remove something?

Boxed squat 80kg/72.5kg/65kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
Novice bench 70kg/62.5kg/57.5kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
Row 70kg/62.5kg/57.5kg/ - warmup sets 25kg/35kg
OHP 40kg/37.5kg/35kg/
SLDL 90kg/82.5kg/75kg

Calf raises 2 sets 50 reps with 15kg plate
Upright row 2 sets 30kg/27kg/25kg/
Cable Curl 2 sets 52.5kg/47.5kg/42.5kg/
Chinups 1 set round 10 reps
Dips 1 set round 10 reps
Pullups 1 set round 5 reps

Farmer Walks kettlebell each hand 25kg/30kg
Finish with some abs kettlebell 16kg workouts 1 set each

I dont see anything you could remove that would prevent a massive stall on the big 3. yea if you were having a hard time with OHP i would remove scull crushers, but you just have a downward push that wont take ohp recovery.

[wick825]

So I've been having an issue with an old shoulder injury from basketball that's never gone away (happened in high school and I'm now 41) and no one can seem to figure out what's wrong with it. On this program I have to take a week off every other cycle it seems because the shoulder injury will flare up, usually just during bench. When this happens, it's usually on my 10 or 11 rep week. Once I go back to the program after the week off, I'll reset to 9 reps. Is there another lift or modifier I can do to so my shoulder stops freaking out? It's more of an inside of the socket towards the front shoulder injury (labrum?) and not a rotator from what I've gathered by reading.

[nightanole]

So I've been having an issue with an old shoulder injury from basketball that's never gone away (happened in high school and I'm now 41) and no one can seem to figure out what's wrong with it. On this program I have to take a week off every other cycle it seems because the shoulder injury will flare up, usually just during bench. When this happens, it's usually on my 10 or 11 rep week. Once I go back to the program after the week off, I'll reset to 9 reps. Is there another lift or modifier I can do to so my shoulder stops freaking out? It's more of an inside of the socket towards the front shoulder injury (labrum?) and not a rotator from what I've gathered by reading.

Floor press.

Else you could try the 10 sets of 3 pattern. Start with your 10 rep max, do sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. Stop the session at the first good for grinder. get all 30 reps and you can bump the weight 5-10% (enough to knock you down to 4-6 sets).

You also might want to try a slight decline vs flat.

[wick825]

Floor press.

Else you could try the 10 sets of 3 pattern. Start with your 10 rep max, do sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. Stop the session at the first good for grinder. get all 30 reps and you can bump the weight 5-10% (enough to knock you down to 4-6 sets).

You also might want to try a slight decline vs flat.

If I do the 10 of 3, do I bump the weight after the normal test day, or is this for anytime I can make it to those 30 reps for this one lift even in the middle of a normal cycle?

[nightanole]

If I do the 10 of 3, do I bump the weight after the normal test day, or is this for anytime I can make it to those 30 reps for this one lift even in the middle of a normal cycle?

10 of 3 is a bump any time you hit 30 reps. if you start with your 10 rep max you should only get 6-7 sets. So there is no test day and its out of sync with the allpro cycle.

The premise is that you are doing a lot of submaximal sets and build up fatigue. This generally helps connective tissue vs doing high rep sets to almost failure with light weight(and hoping the light load doesnt strain) or just doing 3 reps using 90% of your 1rm(and hoping the low weekly tonnage helps).

[wick825]

10 of 3 is a bump any time you hit 30 reps. if you start with your 10 rep max you should only get 6-7 sets. So there is no test day and its out of sync with the allpro cycle.

The premise is that you are doing a lot of submaximal sets and build up fatigue. This generally helps connective tissue vs doing high rep sets to almost failure with light weight(and hoping the light load doesnt strain) or just doing 3 reps using 90% of your 1rm(and hoping the low weekly tonnage helps).

Awesome. I'll try that next week. Hopefully this keeps my shoulder from failing on me again. If this doesn't work, I'll try the floor press. Thanks again, Night!

[PoKeMoN151]

Hi, I can only workout twice a week. You said that 2 heavy days per week will yield the same results as standard All Pro. But I read in the OP that this is not ideal and you will stall while impeding recovery. How could I make sure that I don't stall and reach the graduation goal? What do you suggest when I stall?

[nightanole]

Hi, I can only workout twice a week. You said that 2 heavy days per week will yield the same results as standard All Pro. But I read in the OP that this is not ideal and you will stall while impeding recovery. How could I make sure that I don't stall and reach the graduation goal? What do you suggest when I stall?

2 heavies with 3 sets on the first 3 lifts instead of 2 (other than "test day" which is still 2 sets) to make up for the lost volume is viable. However it is "difficult" and most dont stay on it more than a cycle or 2 before they go back to 3 days a week. Basically the only rule is at least 72 hours rest before any heavy. Other than that adjust carbs as needed to keep recovery up and you should be gold. Plenty of people run heavy heavy for a few weeks out of a cycle just because of a hetic sched, and they have no problems passing test day.

[cljolley]

Will the exercises in this program work out the traps? If not what would be some basic movements to add?

[nightanole]

Will the exercises in this program work out the traps? If not what would be some basic movements to add?

Traps are secondary movers for every movement but bench. If you want an accessory that would be farmer carries.

[cljolley]

Traps are secondary movers for every movement but bench. If you want an accessory that would be farmer carries.

Just to clarify, accessory movements are only advisable after a few cycles, and then add into end of the workout, with only one set. Is this correct?

[cljolley]

And yes if you are putting on 1.5-2kg per cycle you better be getting 15-20% bumps out of it, otherwise all that extra food is just adding fat. Ive seen several people "bulk" at the start of allpro and end up just putting on 15lbs of fat after 6 months. They would have been better off not bulking and getting the same results.

You only bulk if you are well below 18% bf and cant progress fast without the extra food.

Im a male, 5'8" and 135 pounds. I have a bit of belly fat, but am otherwise fairly skinny. I want to do this routine, but am sort of scared of what you said here. Haha. I certainly do not want to get fat. I am eating 2500 calories a day. Does this sound okay? I only ask as I am unsure what my BF % really is. I would rather see slow gains, then get fat.

And simply out of curiosity, those people that "would have been better off not bulking", what is it that they should have done? If they are cutting instead, isnt it very hard to actually build muscle while doing so?

[nightanole]

Just to clarify, accessory movements are only advisable after a few cycles, and then add into end of the workout, with only one set. Is this correct?

Yup 1 set till you know how you respond to the additional volume. You are free to go nuts as long as it does not affect the bench/squat/row.

[nightanole]

Im a male, 5'8" and 135 pounds. I have a bit of belly fat, but am otherwise fairly skinny. I want to do this routine, but am sort of scared of what you said here. Haha. I certainly do not want to get fat. I am eating 2500 calories a day. Does this sound okay? I only ask as I am unsure what my BF % really is. I would rather see slow gains, then get fat.

And simply out of curiosity, those people that "would have been better off not bulking", what is it that they should have done? If they are cutting instead, isnt it very hard to actually build muscle while doing so?

The goal is to end the program At a bmi of 24 @13% body fat, 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats. Since this is a body building routine and not "make weight for football tryouts" routine, its advisable to lose the gut at the beginning of the program while you are learning the lifts. Then you slow bulk to bmi 25, and spend the last cycle or 2 removing the baby fat.

I have no clue what your TDEE is, ive had foot mailmen that required 4500 cals a day to maintain 175lbs without lifting or cardio...


As for the "would have been better off not bulking" crowd. You are only going to gain 20-35lbs of muscle over your life, you are going to gain about half that your first solid 12-18 months of lifting. If you are over 13% it is not hard to gain muscle while maintaining 13%, like wise the goldilox n00b period where you are at 18%+, you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but like i said that only happens once in your life. Then its what you alluded to, gain weight and muscle, or lose weight and fat, you cant do both. So if you are at 18% and bmi 25, you have about 60,000 calories to bulk on before you cant lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. At that stage there is no point for the better off crowd to eat an extra 60,000 calories to gain an extra 15lbs on the program.

Fat is about 3500 cals per pound
muscle is about 900 cals per pound
Muscle "costs" about 65 calories a day to maintain. So you gain 10lbs of muscle, you have to eat about 650 extra calories a day. This is why you see people like "the rock" at 220lbs cutting at 5000 calories.

[daveminnich]

So I've managed to sustain a really painful lower back strain.

I was on vacation for a week from 7/7 to 7/14 and then did the first day of my second cycle (all lifts went up by 10%) on 7/16. Did all my lifts on 7/16 with no problem, then back pain started on 7/17 and has not gotten any better. I'm not sure how much increasing my weights after a week off contributed to this injury, but I'm sure it didn't help.

I don't think I should be doing squats, bent over rows, or SLDLs until it heals. Would I be good to continue the program doing bench, OHP, upright rows, and calf raises until this back strain resolves?

[nightanole]

So I've managed to sustain a really painful lower back strain.

I was on vacation for a week from 7/7 to 7/14 and then did the first day of my second cycle (all lifts went up by 10%) on 7/16. Did all my lifts on 7/16 with no problem, then back pain started on 7/17 and has not gotten any better. I'm not sure how much increasing my weights after a week off contributed to this injury, but I'm sure it didn't help.

I don't think I should be doing squats, bent over rows, or SLDLs until it heals. Would I be good to continue the program doing bench, OHP, upright rows, and calf raises until this back strain resolves?

Honestly i would just do a warmup only routine for a week or 2. So a set of about 25-33% of your working weight, and a set of 50-66% of your working weight. If pain increases after the first set, dont do the second set.

You could take this time to do some chinups, dips, dead hangs. Basically anything that has your legs dangling will provide "traction" which may help the lower back.

[daveminnich]

Honestly i would just do a warmup only routine for a week or 2. So a set of about 25-33% of your working weight, and a set of 50-66% of your working weight. If pain increases after the first set, dont do the second set.

You could take this time to do some chinups, dips, dead hangs. Basically anything that has your legs dangling will provide "traction" which may help the lower back.

Sounds like a solid plan! If I follow this plan, what would you recommend as far as working weights after my back heals? Go back to my cycle 1 weights?

[cljolley]

The goal is to end the program At a bmi of 24 @13% body fat, 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squats. Since this is a body building routine and not "make weight for football tryouts" routine, its advisable to lose the gut at the beginning of the program while you are learning the lifts. Then you slow bulk to bmi 25, and spend the last cycle or 2 removing the baby fat

Nightanole, I looked at your body space pictures. The 1 year mark picture you have is almost identical to my body in regards to musculature and body fat appearance. I do not have a “gut” but do carry a bit of fat on my belly. That’s all I was wondering about. So that being said. If my body is similar to yours, would you go on a bulk with this program? I feel like I’m being unclear. My main concern is obviously building muscle but I do not want to gain a bunch of fat. Certainly not in the belly. I appreciate your feedback and am sorry to take up so much space in this thread. Just trying to fully understand. Thanks.

[nightanole]

Sounds like a solid plan! If I follow this plan, what would you recommend as far as working weights after my back heals? Go back to my cycle 1 weights?

Id retest my 11(not 10) rep maxes and restart.