AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Hi, a year or two ago I have done AP simple beginner and got strenght increase. about 3 months ago I started lifting seriously again and achieve pretty good results using calisthenic method, today I am about to do AP Simple Beginner again.

I have question

1. May I add 2 sets of pull down/pullup at the end of the workout? I love pulldown/pullup so much.
2. For the OHP, can I substitute the movement with dumbell seated shoulder press? since my gym does not have rack for OHP.

Today Im going to start
Squat 135 Lbs for 8 reps
Bench press 105 lbs for 8 reps
BOR 95 Lbs for 8 reps
Dumbell seated shoulder press 30 Lbs each hand for 8 Reps

My body condition
76 KG
175 cm
BF around 18-22 percent.
I dont count calories I just eat whenever I want but my target is to eat atleast 500 grams (before cooking) of grilled chicken breast each day and eating anything that I want to eat as long as it is healthy. I eat maximum 2 cup of rice every day. a few meatballs and veggies.

Will report the progress.

Thank you.

The OHP can be subbed with the seated arnold press
If you have the equipment, you can replace the curl with a chinup or assisted chinup, or palms facing pull down. Depending on your conditioning you may also be able to do your original plan of just 2 sets at the end, as long as it doesnt cause a stall on the first 3 lifts.

[GettingThere91]

I've been doing this routine for a little over a year now, currently on cycle 11 week 4, haven't missed more than maybe 2-3 weeks total (i went on some trips that interfered). This program has been amazing because it has been well-described enough that I've known what to do at the end of every cycle in terms of increase vs maintain vs deload, and something about the simplicity has made it the first program that I've found enjoyable and successful enough to stick with for over a year. I've mostly lurked on these threads for answers, but wanted to post for advice going forward.

I've had solid improvements in capacity, going from a bench of 125 -> 170 and 100 -> 220 on SLDL all while losing a solid 10-15 lbs, but now I've noticed I have plateaued for quite some time and I am looking to work on some additional groups. My bench seems to be limited by pain in my wrists, so I have been working on accessories for that, and my SLDL is limited by my grip strength, so I am looking for advice on improving it, but in general I was hoping to hear what some other users have mixed in over the course of a year? I've noticed I have biceps for the first time in my life, but they are most like "tall", and lack much width or definition in a side profile. I have started working in tricep and delt work on my off days to see if I can make progress towards the desired look, but I was wondering if there are any particular exercises I should try? I've also found further cutting to be hard while doing this program, because I'm never sure how much of a plateau is acceptable, considering I try to stick to ~1700 cal/day.

[nightanole]

I've been doing this routine for a little over a year now, currently on cycle 11 week 4, haven't missed more than maybe 2-3 weeks total (i went on some trips that interfered). This program has been amazing because it has been well-described enough that I've known what to do at the end of every cycle in terms of increase vs maintain vs deload, and something about the simplicity has made it the first program that I've found enjoyable and successful enough to stick with for over a year. I've mostly lurked on these threads for answers, but wanted to post for advice going forward.

I've had solid improvements in capacity, going from a bench of 125 -> 170 and 100 -> 220 on SLDL all while losing a solid 10-15 lbs, but now I've noticed I have plateaued for quite some time and I am looking to work on some additional groups. My bench seems to be limited by pain in my wrists, so I have been working on accessories for that, and my SLDL is limited by my grip strength, so I am looking for advice on improving it, but in general I was hoping to hear what some other users have mixed in over the course of a year? I've noticed I have biceps for the first time in my life, but they are most like "tall", and lack much width or definition in a side profile. I have started working in tricep and delt work on my off days to see if I can make progress towards the desired look, but I was wondering if there are any particular exercises I should try? I've also found further cutting to be hard while doing this program, because I'm never sure how much of a plateau is acceptable, considering I try to stick to ~1700 cal/day.

Lets see here...

You can cut as deep as you want as long as you always hit the reps on 10 rep week.
Wrist pain from bench might be from doing it bent wrist style.
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/pow...o-bench-press/

Grip work can be handled by farmer walks/carries and hanging leg raises. Your sweet spot should be around 60-90 seconds, anything over or under that should adjust the weight.

[aryonoco]

How about you "reset" next week down to 7 reps and make it a 6 week cycle?

Thanks mate. Will do.

[thb0307]

Nightanole, do you still endorse substituting upright rows for curls? I have nothing against curls I just remember you mentioning much earlier that upright rows would fit the routine even better (but AllPro knew people would want the curls).

[nightanole]

Nightanole, do you still endorse substituting upright rows for curls? I have nothing against curls I just remember you mentioning much earlier that upright rows would fit the routine even better (but AllPro knew people would want the curls).

if you need direct bicep work, or hammer grip curls for elbow reenforcement, curl. If you want to make it a compound for shoulders do upright rows.

Without upright rows odds are you will need some side delt work by the end of the program.
Without curls odds are you will need some forearm work by the end of the program.

Curls is the wild card, you can even sub chinups for the movement.

[andresrosas]

Alright I think I will try the auto regulated routine as lifting 2 days a week only makes me feel kind of empty.
If I understand correctly all days are heavy days and the goal is to hit 24 reps with 90s rest between sets in order to bump up the weight? Also, I was wondering what would be the problem to run the regular routine (as in the regular rep progression) but all days are heavy days as well. This might have an obvious answer, just trying to make sure.
Thanks for all your help and your investment in this thread.

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm cutting (currently around 15 % bf), don't know if that makes any difference.

[nightanole]

Alright I think I will try the auto regulated routine as lifting 2 days a week only makes me feel kind of empty.
If I understand correctly all days are heavy days and the goal is to hit 24 reps with 90s rest between sets in order to bump up the weight? Also, I was wondering what would be the problem to run the regular routine (as in the regular rep progression) but all days are heavy days as well. This might have an obvious answer, just trying to make sure.
Thanks for all your help and your investment in this thread.

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm cutting (currently around 15 % bf), don't know if that makes any difference.

Yes the autoregulated version is all heavies, the same weight every time. Yes its 90 seconds of rest, and yes if you get at least 24 reps over 2 sets you can bump the weight 10%. odds are it will be 13-14 reps on the first set and 10-11 reps on the first set. It might be a few sessions of scoring 12 on the first set before you start being able to score 10 reps on the 2nd set.

For the second question, no you can not do 3 heavies a week. If you could, you are not going nearly heavy enough and are selling yourself short. that 10% less medium day is going to be harder than that weeks heavy day, once you are in the groove.

Even with the auto regulated version, your rep total will drop during the week, as the fatigue builds up.

This is not like 5x5 or 3x5 where you start super light and can add 5lbs a session all week for months before you hit your limit. On allpro you are at your limit by week 3, and if you do not get better (either with practice, conditioning, or hypertrophy) you will be missing reps on 11-12 rep weeks.

[andresrosas]

Great, I think that clears up most questions I had, thank you very much.
I think I'll purchase some 2,5lb plates to make my life easier.

[nightanole]

Great, I think that clears up most questions I had, thank you very much.
I think I'll purchase some 2,5lb plates to make my life easier.

I just went to the hardware store and had them cut some heavy chain to 1.25lbs each, so i could go up/down 2.5lbs. I just made hoops using zip ties.

[GingerSkeleton]

Will this routine be good for someone who's 145lbs, 5'11 and pretty weak and skinny? I am bulking, eating right etc and want to gain muscle definition or am I better off doing feirce 5

[nightanole]

Will this routine be good for someone who's 145lbs, 5'11 and pretty weak and skinny? I am bulking, eating right etc and want to gain muscle definition or am I better off doing feirce 5

bmi of 24 b@13%
10 reps of bw bench
10 reps of 1.25-1.5x squat
in about 5-7 cycles

[GingerSkeleton]

bmi of 24 b@13%
10 reps of bw bench
10 reps of 1.25-1.5x squat
in about 5-7 cycles

So is that a "yes this is good for you" or a "no do fierce 5" lol

[nightanole]

So is that a "yes this is good for you" or a "no do fierce 5" lol

Thats what you will get if you do allpro, i dont know what you will get if you do F5. It pretty much comes down to if you want your primaries to be sets of 10 or heavier sets of 5, if you want long rests or short rests, and if you want to add weight each week vs adding reps

ALLPRO:
average sets of 10
Rep progression weekly
very short rests(30-90 seconds)

F5:
average sets of 5
Weight progression weekly
Very long rests (3-5min)

[GettingThere91]

Thanks for the advice last week nightanole. Might try subbing in upright rows as you suggested to thb, my delts have not grown nearly as much as my biceps or even triceps have. really loving this routine even after introducing accessories on rest days. It has made main days harder but still stays engaging.

[GingerSkeleton]

Thats what you will get if you do allpro, i dont know what you will get if you do F5. It pretty much comes down to if you want your primaries to be sets of 10 or heavier sets of 5, if you want long rests or short rests, and if you want to add weight each week vs adding reps

ALLPRO:
average sets of 10
Rep progression weekly
very short rests(30-90 seconds)

F5:
average sets of 5
Weight progression weekly
Very long rests (3-5min)

I see what you mean

what i'm aiming for is muscle mass. I'm currently in the process of bulking. I prefer doing sets of 10, i feel like my body and brain responds better to more of a workout, but i'm unsure which of these programs would be better for gaining muscle mass/definition whilst bulking.

[GingerSkeleton]

also, does the barbell hit the floor during a stiff legged deadlift?

[nightanole]

also, does the barbell hit the floor during a stiff legged deadlift?

Nope, its a stretch exercise.

As for which program is better for you, id say if you can progress faster than 20% bumps per cycle(10% is the min for allpro, not the max), F5 would be a better option.

[GingerSkeleton]

Nope, its a stretch exercise.

As for which program is better for you, id say if you can progress faster than 20% bumps per cycle(10% is the min for allpro, not the max), F5 would be a better option.

I have doubt i could. I'm not strong at all, pretty weak. i will stick with allpro for a bit whilst bulking. i prefer the workouts in this program than f5

[GingerSkeleton]

Ok I did my first run of this today and I have an issue.

I started with the squat, in order with correct form. Problem is this hit my legs so much and worked them out so much i could hardly do the bent over rows. Am I down something wrong? Wrong order or something? My legs are feeling worked out in a good way, only so good that I struggled to do other exercises properly.

[nightanole]

Ok I did my first run of this today and I have an issue.

I started with the squat, in order with correct form. Problem is this hit my legs so much and worked them out so much i could hardly do the bent over rows. Am I down something wrong? Wrong order or something? My legs are feeling worked out in a good way, only so good that I struggled to do other exercises properly.

You should have done the exercises using a weight you could lift 10-11 times, in the order you will do in the workout.

Bench/row/squat need to be done first in no particular order. Followed by the rest of the exercises in no particular order. If you do them out of the orginal order, you may have to rest a few minutes between exercises, if you are hitting the same muscle group back to back.

You are free to row first and squat second.

I tend to go with "worst lift first", so if im a real good bencher, it will be my last lift of the 3 so i can focus on the ones im not good at.

[daawhitty]

also, does the barbell hit the floor during a stiff legged deadlift?

Keeping the weight off the ground hammers your hamstrings because they are under constant tension. I’ve stopped using bumpers to avoid grounding the weight for this reason.

[agoodz]

My chiropractor said my shoulder girdles are tight and that I need to work on strengthening my back more to even things out.

Currently my lifts are the following (I am on cycle 2, 11 rep week, 5'5" 148lbs)
Squat: 115lbs
Bench: 87.5lbs
Pendlay Row: 77.5lbs
OHP: 57.5lbs
SLDL: 87.5lbs
Curls: 22.5lb dumbbells
Calf Raises: 22.5lb dumbbell

Part of why I see a chiropractor is because of a whiplash injury I sustained in an accident. One day of the week I added a set of upper and lower ab workouts and another day of the week I added two sets of recommended neck strengthening exercises. What supplemental exercise can I add to strengthen my back and how often should I add it to the program? I would like to implement it when I start up cycle 3 in 2 weeks. Thanks.

[nightanole]

My chiropractor said my shoulder girdles are tight and that I need to work on strengthening my back more to even things out.

Currently my lifts are the following (I am on cycle 2, 11 rep week, 5'5" 148lbs)
Squat: 115lbs
Bench: 87.5lbs
Pendlay Row: 77.5lbs
OHP: 57.5lbs
SLDL: 87.5lbs
Curls: 22.5lb dumbbells
Calf Raises: 22.5lb dumbbell

Part of why I see a chiropractor is because of a whiplash injury I sustained in an accident. One day of the week I added a set of upper and lower ab workouts and another day of the week I added two sets of recommended neck strengthening exercises. What supplemental exercise can I add to strengthen my back and how often should I add it to the program? I would like to implement it when I start up cycle 3 in 2 weeks. Thanks.

Define "strengthen my back".

That could be:
1-2min paused at the bottom 1 rep squat with just the bar
Hanging leg raises for front core
reverse hyper extensions if the doc wants dynamic work
isometric hyperextension holds

I normally recommend static holds, since your back is not suppose to be moving during lifting.

[agoodz]

By "strengthen my back" I mean something that balances out my chest and shoulders pulling forward. Would this work itself out once my row gets stronger or is there a need for an additional exercise in the routine?

[madfiddler]

Oh my God. I just finished heavy day of week 5, first cycle... And I only just now realized warmups are supposed to be 1/4 and 1/2... I've been doing 1/2 and 3/4.

Wonder how that affected my work sets.

[nightanole]

By "strengthen my back" I mean something that balances out my chest and shoulders pulling forward. Would this work itself out once my row gets stronger or is there a need for an additional exercise in the routine?

Ah.

I would recommend:
upright rows instead of curls. Use a bar bell and tune your grip so the rep naturally ends at shoulder level, you do not want to be going up to your ears.
If you can start some "grease the groove" chinup training that would be good.
For an accessory i recommend "kroc rows" in the style where the DB hits the floor each rep. Really learn to drop the shoulder vs just twisting your torso to get the range of motion.

[nightanole]

Oh my God. I just finished heavy day of week 5, first cycle... And I only just now realized warmups are supposed to be 1/4 and 1/2... I've been doing 1/2 and 3/4.

Wonder how that affected my work sets.

Not much at all, infact if that works for you, go for it. The point is to "do the lift with a sub maximal weight for a few sets". I would just pick 2 weights, do them for sets of ten, every workout, you might even get 2-3 cycles out before they get too light to be useful. So just pick the bar(unless you are working with well over 200lbs for your light day) for the first set, and something that is 2/3-3/4 of your light day weight.

[madfiddler]

Not much at all, infact if that works for you, go for it. The point is to "do the lift with a sub maximal weight for a few sets". I would just pick 2 weights, do them for sets of ten, every workout, you might even get 2-3 cycles out before they get too light to be useful. So just pick the bar(unless you are working with well over 200lbs for your light day) for the first set, and something that is 2/3-3/4 of your light day weight.

Ok, good to hear.

Like I said, just finished my cycle 1 week 5 heavy day. I didn't pass curls (12+9 was all I managed, my left arm definitely is a couple reps behind my right) or ohp (I got 12+12 but the last rep was awfully ugly, that counts as a failure right?), but the rest are getting bumps for next cycle. I'm feeling better even on curl and ohp compared to 4 weeks ago though.

Lost 7 or 8 pounds so far, and enjoying the program immensely

[agoodz]

Ah.

I would recommend:
upright rows instead of curls. Use a bar bell and tune your grip so the rep naturally ends at shoulder level, you do not want to be going up to your ears.
If you can start some "grease the groove" chinup training that would be good.
For an accessory i recommend "kroc rows" in the style where the DB hits the floor each rep. Really learn to drop the shoulder vs just twisting your torso to get the range of motion.

Ok thanks. I'll swap curls for upright rows. I'll also look into investing in a pull-up bar to toss on my bedroom door or something, which would be better, overhand pull ups or underhand chin ups? Lastly, for kroc rows, is that something I add a set or 2 in once a week at the end of the workout in 8-12 range or how exactly should I implement them?