AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[UncleLemmon]

Thanks for the advice ! i think it could be my elbows now you mention it as thats what gives out. so i'll look in to the replacing the shoulder and alternate with the decline and hammer.

as for

and as an intermediate i recommend 50% more volume than the core volume anyway.

i have no idea what that means sorry, by volume do you mean reps? i'm still getting to terms with, well, terms.

Thanks as always for the input and advice. roll on friday !

[nightanole]

Thanks for the advice ! i think it could be my elbows now you mention it as thats what gives out. so i'll look in to the replacing the shoulder and alternate with the decline and hammer.

as for i have no idea what that means sorry, by volume do you mean reps? i'm still getting to terms with, well, terms.

Thanks as always for the input and advice. roll on friday !

As you increase in strength, it will take more and more volume in order to progress. Infact what limits your peak strength/muscle mass is the amount of volume you can survive. Advanced lifters do enough per session volume to make people white in the face. 10 sets of 10 using their 12 rep maxes etc.


The allpro weekly volume is too little to push an intermediate lifter, and at the same time the progression is too fast for an intermediate.

So you can either add a few more sets to the core lifts, or add another weekly lifting session, or add volume via accessories.

The fun part is just trying to figure out your weekly volume limit. It will go up alot faster than your strength, but if you up the volume too much you stall and cant complete the act again the following week.

[ShredLeanTeam]

I'm starting this program all over, the first few months were a test run. I really do want to add deadlifts in though

[ShredLeanTeam]

As you increase in strength, it will take more and more volume in order to progress. Infact what limits your peak strength/muscle mass is the amount of volume you can survive. Advanced lifters do enough per session volume to make people white in the face. 10 sets of 10 using their 12 rep maxes etc.


The allpro weekly volume is too little to push an intermediate lifter, and at the same time the progression is too fast for an intermediate.

So you can either add a few more sets to the core lifts, or add another weekly lifting session, or add volume via accessories.

The fun part is just trying to figure out your weekly volume limit. It will go up alot faster than your strength, but if you up the volume too much you stall and cant complete the act again the following week.

I really want to add dead lifts, should it be done, if not why? I've been doing this program for 2 months

[nightanole]

I really want to add dead lifts, should it be done, if not why? I've been doing this program for 2 months

As with the other guy, if you really really want to do deadlifts, they should be done either after the light day workout for 1-2 sets, or the 1-2 sets of deadlifts replace light day SLDL.

You gotta remember that most "unlimited rest" programs only have novices dealifting for a set or two, once a week.

You got to play it by ear and not do it on a cut. If you start getting leg shakes, thats a sign your cns is frying, and its sending signals anywhere and everywhere to recruit muscle fibers. As long as you dont get the shakes, you should be ok.

[UncleLemmon]

I think it was on this thread about a year ago you posted a lower body foam rolling video, if it was you could you share it again please

[UncleLemmon]

I think it was on this thread about a year ago you posted a lower body foam rolling video, if it was you could you share it again please

Scratch that, think i found it, Joe DeFranco's "Limber 11"

[Jesse6131994]

im using my home gym for this program so i dont have a calf raise machine that adds weight. how can do calf raises while starting the first week out with 8 calf raises and not find it extremely easy?

[nightanole]

im using my home gym for this program so i dont have a calf raise machine that adds weight. how can do calf raises while starting the first week out with 8 calf raises and not find it extremely easy?

Calf raises can be done a lot of different ways.

DB on knee while sitting on the bench with the ball of your foot on a few plates.
1 legged on a step with a db in one hand and the other hand on the railing.

It just needs to be anything that is full range of motion. You do not want to just start flat foot and raise.

[Jesse6131994]

Calf raises can be done a lot of different ways.

DB on knee while sitting on the bench with the ball of your foot on a few plates.
1 legged on a step with a db in one hand and the other hand on the railing.

It just needs to be anything that is full range of motion. You do not want to just start flat foot and raise.

awesome ill try these. thank you

[UncleLemmon]

im using my home gym for this program so i dont have a calf raise machine that adds weight. how can do calf raises while starting the first week out with 8 calf raises and not find it extremely easy?

I'm using a home gym too. i picked up a dip belt on amazon for about 7€ and i made a calf raise block out of a couple of bits of scrap wood.

[zukias]

Is it okay to split the sessions up with this routine and split the daily workouts over 2 days with fewer rest days?
e.g.

day 1
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows

day 2
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Overhead Barbell Presses
Calf Raises

[UncleLemmon]

Yea... Having a 150lb 1rm on bench, when odds are you are over 67kg bw, that should be your working weight by now. On the bright side OHP isnt weak compared to the bench.

This tells me you should drop the db shoulder press and alternating bench, those are shoulder, not chest, accessories.

Chest is weird so ill throw out 2 responses.

First is do decline bench as an accessory, using 60kg as a working weight (odds are 3-4 rep sets, if you get to 5 reps, add 1-2kg to get you back down to 3 reps) for 1-2 sets after the workout.
Second option is hammer grip DB bench with elbows at 45 degrees. It might not be your chest that is holding you back, you may need elbow re enforcement.

You can continue with the 3 sets instead of 2, since you seem to be able to handle it, and as an intermediate i recommend 50% more volume than the core volume anyway.

And a third option, i re-evaluated my form. BP was one of the first i learned over a year ago and i never re-looked at form again. now with a bit more experience and re-reading things it turns out i'd been way too narrow. on my home bench if i put my hands on the inside to unrack its too small a gap. if i unrack on the out side its just slightly too large. i did it on the outside today with much better results i felt it hit my chest much more and my elbows didnt feel like they were going to buckle.

i used the two accessories you suggested too, thanks for those.

[nightanole]

Is it okay to split the sessions up with this routine and split the daily workouts over 2 days with fewer rest days?
e.g.

day 1
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows

day 2
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Overhead Barbell Presses
Calf Raises

You would have to break them up into their accessories.

squat/SLDL
bench/OHP
curls/rows

So you might be able to rig up some weird 6 day a week program of doing 2 of the 3 main lifts and their matching accessory each day.

[nightanole]

And a third option, i re-evaluated my form. BP was one of the first i learned over a year ago and i never re-looked at form again. now with a bit more experience and re-reading things it turns out i'd been way too narrow. on my home bench if i put my hands on the inside to unrack its too small a gap. if i unrack on the out side its just slightly too large. i did it on the outside today with much better results i felt it hit my chest much more and my elbows didnt feel like they were going to buckle.

i used the two accessories you suggested too, thanks for those.

Widest legal grip is index fingers 81cm apart. A neutral grip is pinkies 81cm apart.

[UncleLemmon]

Widest legal grip is index fingers 81cm apart. A neutral grip is pinkies 81cm apart.

Cool, just got the tape measure. mine is inex aprart 80 CM if i go outside and pinkies 70 cm on the inside. i find the inside too narrow (only realized today) and the outside much more comfortable.

[DustinS1987]

Welp. Was doing Scott Herman 20 minute daily fat burn + dumbbell workout and it was really good for me to get off my ass and get started but now I want to move into this program although I changed it quite dramatically.

On a 1,000 calorie deficit diet. Depending on how I feel I'll probably try eating a big meal on the 11 and 12 rep days for more carbs. Or just turn it into a 750 calorie deficit and see how I feel. I still have 46 more lb's of fat to lose to get to around 12% body fat.

Everything 3 sec up, 3 sec down very smooth, slow reps. Really try to mentally target the muscles too.

Dead lifts - Starting weight 140 - slow perfect smooth form. I won't treat it as a power lifting movement.
Pushups - More convenient than floor presses and no-risk.
O.H.P - Starting weight 55
B.O.R - Starting weight 70
Skull Crushers - 1 set at the end
Bicep Dumbbell curls - 1 set at the end

No calf raises.

Off days I'll do something like this

30 sec Jumping Jacks
10 toe touches each side
10 pushups
10 body weight squats
30 sec Russian Twist
30 sec Renegade Row with 7.5 dumbbells
10 body weight lunges
30 sec plank

Repeat cycle 4 times, 30 second rest between each exercise. Once any exercise get's really easy I'll add some weights.

So I'll still get decent leg exercise (squats, lunges) without putting them into the lifting program.

Program might be totally ****ed but I already have excel spreadsheet and ready to go !!!

Will post weight changes later and how I feel on a large calorie deficit.

[DustinS1987]

Ah...looks like I might need to change my calorie deficit, you have said many times that if you want to cut, you need to have a minimum of 2000 calories and do more cardio to balance it out.

I've been on a 1500 calorie regiment for the past month - but usually I sneak in a small handful of shredded chz, or a small scoop of peanut butter, extra glass of milk, etc bc after a workout my body is like "I NEED FOOD". Currently losing 2 lb's a week though.

So I'll bump up to 2,000 and adjust with more cardio and hopefully I won't stall too much

[nightanole]

Ah...looks like I might need to change my calorie deficit, you have said many times that if you want to cut, you need to have a minimum of 2000 calories and do more cardio to balance it out.

I've been on a 1500 calorie regiment for the past month - but usually I sneak in a small handful of shredded chz, or a small scoop of peanut butter, extra glass of milk, etc bc after a workout my body is like "I NEED FOOD". Currently losing 2 lb's a week though.

So I'll bump up to 2,000 and adjust with more cardio and hopefully I won't stall too much

Eat to perform. If you cant perform/recover, you might end up dropping those 46lbs, but 6-10lbs of it might be muscle. And since muscle consumes 50-75 calories a day per pound, you can see how if you do it wrong, you end up with a 150lb person with a TDEE of 1500 calories, instead of a person who is 175lbs with a TDEE of 2500 calories, and the same body fat percentage.

[DustinS1987]

Any chance you could briefly explain why this program allows you to "continue increasing weight" but all pro eventually stalls after 7 cycles or so

It's the Jason Blaha link you gave earlier I just don't have authorization to post links yet lol

Week 1 – 3×10 at 60%
Week 2 – 3×10 65%
Week 3 – 3×8 70%
Week 4 – 3×8 75%
Week 5 – 3×5 80%
Week 6 – 3×5 85%
Week 7 – Retest Rep Maxes & Deload

Just looking forward to get an idea of what an intermediate program is and WHY it works better than a beginner program.

I also see programs where you have like "push/pull/legs" where each day you have 3 exercises that target each muscle group so you'd have bench/fly/incline press, pull ups/bent over row/face pull, Squats/Lunges/Weighted Box Jumps" or w/e - is this more of an advanced routine?

[nightanole]

Any chance you could briefly explain why this program allows you to "continue increasing weight" but all pro eventually stalls after 7 cycles or so

It's the Jason Blaha link you gave earlier I just don't have authorization to post links yet lol

Week 1 – 3×10 at 60%
Week 2 – 3×10 65%
Week 3 – 3×8 70%
Week 4 – 3×8 75%
Week 5 – 3×5 80%
Week 6 – 3×5 85%
Week 7 – Retest Rep Maxes & Deload

Just looking forward to get an idea of what an intermediate program is and WHY it works better than a beginner program.

I also see programs where you have like "push/pull/legs" where each day you have 3 exercises that target each muscle group so you'd have bench/fly/incline press, pull ups/bent over row/face pull, Squats/Lunges/Weighted Box Jumps" or w/e - is this more of an advanced routine?

Allpro is pretty light when it comes to weekly volume. Beginners cant handle much volume but they can progress fast. At Some point (normally around the time your squat working weight is 10% above body weight) Allpro does not have enough weekly volume to force progression, and at the same time its progression is so fast that you would spend 2-3 cycles with the same weight because you could only progress at 3-5% per cycle.

This is where jason's linear hypertrophy program comes in. It has 50-100% more weekly volume than allpro (you can chart it, but volume drops dramatically from week 1 to week 5), and since it has a retest/deload, you can progress at 1-2% per month.

Think about it, after a year of lifting the average lifter has a power lifting total of 800-900lbs. Do you really thing you will have a well above 1000lb club total after another year of training? At that "dam good progress" is only 10% in a year.

[DustinS1987]

Ok so in other words all pro get's a Squat from let's say 150 to 300 in 8 cycles which is a 100% weight increase, but in the 2nd year of lifting you're looking more for like...what, 300 to 400, so about 33% weight increase? So in other words you have to do much more volume for much less gains? Sounds demoralizing LOL

[nightanole]

Ok so in other words all pro get's a Squat from let's say 150 to 300 in 8 cycles which is a 100% weight increase, but in the 2nd year of lifting you're looking more for like...what, 300 to 400, so about 33% weight increase? So in other words you have to do much more volume for much less gains? Sounds demoralizing LOL

Its even more demoralizing...

Take the average 20-30 something 5.9 ish 175lb at 15% lifter

Odds are he can squat half his weight, and deadlift his entire weight, for 1 rep, with a few practice sessions.

On allpro after 5-7 cycles the lifter should be able to squat about 225 for 10 reps if he is fresh. This is about 70%ish of his 1rm, so about 315lbs 1rm(and he might be able to to hit 315 on a 8 weekly peaking program)

After a year from the first time they picked up a bar bell, they will be have a power lifting total of 800-900lbs (gods gift to lifting who is well over 6ft might be in the 1000lb club)

By year 2 there is a good chance he is in the 1000lb club

If he continues, maybe by year 5-6 he will hit 1200lbs. And thats about it without major coaching and training time. Its his volume limit.

http://muscleandbrawn.com/strong-str...tural-lifters/

Here is a nice chart. By the end of allpro you should be 5-10% weaker than "strong", and by the 12-18 months you should be strong. Then you will move up a bracket every 2-3 years, either up a weight class, or up a strength standard.

[DustinS1987]

For my end game goal, looks like I'll need 400 Squat, 270 Bench and 450 deadlift. With your math and that chart looks like with 18 months of suck it up mentality and disciplined training I can reach it.

Thanks again for the help, it's an epic thread to read on my free time.

[RandomUserr]

My current stats are:
5'11 (180 cm)
190 pounds
~28% body fat

I havent ever been to the gym but I've been going to the gym for the past 2 months 4 times a week (x2 arm/chest and x2 leg day) to get into shape. I can bench about 45 pounds for 4 sets of 9 reps. It's not a lot as I stated earlier I had never been to the gym before which id why I stayed away from this work out plan. I want a consistent workout plan now though that can provided me with real results as I've been stuck on 45 pounds for a few weeks.

The main issue for me is whether to eat at a caloric deficit or caloric surplus (i currently consume 1700 calories). I have a high body fat percentage and weigh 190 pounds (fairly high) so I'm unsure as to my best approach towards getting fit.

Should I attempt this workout plan eventhough my bench weight is only 45 pounds?
In order for best results should I shred my weight first to about 170 pounds by eating at a caloric deficit and then begin eating at a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle mass? (Which is the best approach for me to gain a lean body with high muscle mass? I dont want to be like blobby with big arms I want a Physique like Hugh jackman wolverine (obviously one that is more attainable) but by this I mean where my body is proportionate and my stomach is flat (currently have a small beer belly).

Sorry for the long post any help would be greatly appreciated

[DustinS1987]

My current stats are:
5'11 (180 cm)
190 pounds
~28% body fat

I havent ever been to the gym but I've been going to the gym for the past 2 months 4 times a week (x2 arm/chest and x2 leg day) to get into shape. I can bench about 45 pounds for 4 sets of 9 reps. It's not a lot as I stated earlier I had never been to the gym before which id why I stayed away from this work out plan. I want a consistent workout plan now though that can provided me with real results as I've been stuck on 45 pounds for a few weeks.

The main issue for me is whether to eat at a caloric deficit or caloric surplus (i currently consume 1700 calories). I have a high body fat percentage and weigh 190 pounds (fairly high) so I'm unsure as to my best approach towards getting fit.

Should I attempt this workout plan eventhough my bench weight is only 45 pounds?
In order for best results should I shred my weight first to about 170 pounds by eating at a caloric deficit and then begin eating at a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle mass? (Which is the best approach for me to gain a lean body with high muscle mass? I dont want to be like blobby with big arms I want a Physique like Hugh jackman wolverine (obviously one that is more attainable) but by this I mean where my body is proportionate and my stomach is flat (currently have a small beer belly).

Sorry for the long post any help would be greatly appreciated

I have read over 100 pages of this thread so I feel like I can answer this

1.) You should make your target daily calories around 2000 - if you need to add in cardio on your off days then do this.
2.) You should definitely begin this program on a cut - for you at 28% body fat, aim for about 1 lb a week of weight loss. If I was you, I'd push for 1.5 lb's a week but you would have to do enough cardio to make that balance.
3.) This program works. Just follow it. Don't worry about what your bench press is at this time in your life, you WILL make gains if you stick to it. If your profile age is accurate, and you haven't had any lifting experience, 45 lb's doesn't sound too bad.
4.) As a beginner, you should throw out your mental musings and empty your mind and just submit and accept that a beginner routine is exactly what you need.
5.) Once you get to around 12% to 15% body fat, for you, probably 35 lb's of fat loss. That should take you about 8 months at 1lb a month.
6.) On a cut, you might stall every other cycle or so but once you lose the fat then you start a clean bulk for 6 months or so, then cut again and by that time you'll look closer to Hugh Jackman.
7.) Hugh Jackman physique looks like it's 8% body fat or less, he has veins in his stomach for god sake lol that you will have to deal with at a later time, but hey goals are goals.

Hope that helps!

[nightanole]

My current stats are:
5'11 (180 cm)
190 pounds
~28% body fat

I havent ever been to the gym but I've been going to the gym for the past 2 months 4 times a week (x2 arm/chest and x2 leg day) to get into shape. I can bench about 45 pounds for 4 sets of 9 reps. It's not a lot as I stated earlier I had never been to the gym before which id why I stayed away from this work out plan. I want a consistent workout plan now though that can provided me with real results as I've been stuck on 45 pounds for a few weeks.

The main issue for me is whether to eat at a caloric deficit or caloric surplus (i currently consume 1700 calories). I have a high body fat percentage and weigh 190 pounds (fairly high) so I'm unsure as to my best approach towards getting fit.

Should I attempt this workout plan eventhough my bench weight is only 45 pounds?
In order for best results should I shred my weight first to about 170 pounds by eating at a caloric deficit and then begin eating at a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle mass? (Which is the best approach for me to gain a lean body with high muscle mass? I dont want to be like blobby with big arms I want a Physique like Hugh jackman wolverine (obviously one that is more attainable) but by this I mean where my body is proportionate and my stomach is flat (currently have a small beer belly).

Sorry for the long post any help would be greatly appreciated

Other than what dustin posted:

Everyone starts with imbalances, some of the rock crawlers could row 175lbs but only bench 45lbs. Idealy you would want the big 3 to be around 55lbs, so heavy day would be 55, medium 50, and light just he 45lb bar. If you are using standard set with a 15lb bar, then that really doesnt matter. Plus the weaker you are the faster you will progress. A 175lb bencher is not not going to be adding 10% to the bar every 5 weeks.

As for the Hugh jackman look, it requires a bmi of 24-25 and a ultra low body fat, a true 9-10%. This requires a perfect diet vs good weight lifting ( a farm hand could achieve it without lifting a weight). By perfect diet i mean weighing all food(once you start getting below 13%) and really look at the composition. "low calories" or "low fat" or "keto" isnt going to cut it, if you just run with those you will start losing an equal amount of fat as you do muscle.

Cant help you further, but i would look into the off season diets of natty body / physique competitors (on season is unsustainable and slowly killing them).

[ShredLeanTeam]

Other than what dustin posted:

Everyone starts with imbalances, some of the rock crawlers could row 175lbs but only bench 45lbs. Idealy you would want the big 3 to be around 55lbs, so heavy day would be 55, medium 50, and light just he 45lb bar. If you are using standard set with a 15lb bar, then that really doesnt matter. Plus the weaker you are the faster you will progress. A 175lb bencher is not not going to be adding 10% to the bar every 5 weeks.

As for the Hugh jackman look, it requires a bmi of 24-25 and a ultra low body fat, a true 9-10%. This requires a perfect diet vs good weight lifting ( a farm hand could achieve it without lifting a weight). By perfect diet i mean weighing all food(once you start getting below 13%) and really look at the composition. "low calories" or "low fat" or "keto" isnt going to cut it, if you just run with those you will start losing an equal amount of fat as you do muscle.

Cant help you further, but i would look into the off season diets of natty body / physique competitors (on season is unsustainable and slowly killing them).

Can you recommend some good ab exercises on the off day? And some cardio? I was thinking of doing the stairs.

[ShredLeanTeam]

On a fitness youtube video I heard to find out how many calories you need to times your body weight times 11

[nightanole]

Can you recommend some good ab exercises on the off day? And some cardio? I was thinking of doing the stairs.

For my "cant cheat" list:
Ab wheel roll outs
Hanging leg raises
high foot farmer walks/carries (high foot defined as femur perpendicular to the ground between steps, or at least a foot off the ground if you have balance issues)
And recently landmine 180's

If you notice a trend, im a fan of static hold core exercises since they have carry over to big lifts. Its called the cant cheat list, because on most "ab" exercises you are really just working the hip flexors and just tensing the abs.