AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

First 3 lifts(bench/row/squat) need to be done before the last 3-4. Feel free to re arrange based on those rules. The program is setup so you never hit a muscle back to back, however people need to work in etc, there is no time limit between exercises so you could even take a 5-10min breather.

[JohnSmithXP]

Hey i have some questions about my intermediate v2 program, sorry i keep asking here in the beginner thread. If there's somewhere else better suited link me to it

Today was week 5 of cycle 1, i did bench 90 kg the first set i got the 8 reps very easy, second was easy, third was a bit hard, and on the fourth set last rep i got stuck just before lockout and my friend helped me up.

After this last set my shoulder was very very sore and i could feel it very intensely. I couldn't do OHP because i felt something would go wrong, but i managed to do a set of the hammer dumbell press

The problem is, when i do pass OHP i won't be able to increase 5%, i'd have to increase some more because now i'm doing 50 kg ohp and 105% of that is 52.5 and the smallest plates in my gym are 2.5 so the smallest increase i can make is 55 which is 10% more.

I don't have access to any microplates i've looked everywhere in my city and nobody has them. I can't buy online because the shipping is too expensive.

so can i increase bench next time or is this not considered a pass? and when i pass ohp, is there a way to increase by 10%?

[chaz4780]

How Many calories would this work out programe burn? thanks

[DrakHarr]

How Many calories would this work out programe burn? thanks

Basically impossible to tell. Heavier weights will burn more calories, but it's relative to your strength. If your bench press max is 65, you'll burn way more calories doing 10 45 lb bench presses than I would, since 45 is barely even a warmup.

You could get a heart monitor to check, but it tends to overestimate, especially with weightlifting (it's close for cardio).

[chaz4780]

Basically impossible to tell. Heavier weights will burn more calories, but it's relative to your strength. If your bench press max is 65, you'll burn way more calories doing 10 45 lb bench presses than I would, since 45 is barely even a warmup.

You could get a heart monitor to check, but it tends to overestimate, especially with weightlifting (it's close for cardio).

Aww thank you, I was trying to "figure" it out so I could put it into my fitbit flex Thanks tho

[nightanole]

Hey i have some questions about my intermediate v2 program, sorry i keep asking here in the beginner thread. If there's somewhere else better suited link me to it

Today was week 5 of cycle 1, i did bench 90 kg the first set i got the 8 reps very easy, second was easy, third was a bit hard, and on the fourth set last rep i got stuck just before lockout and my friend helped me up.

After this last set my shoulder was very very sore and i could feel it very intensely. I couldn't do OHP because i felt something would go wrong, but i managed to do a set of the hammer dumbell press

The problem is, when i do pass OHP i won't be able to increase 5%, i'd have to increase some more because now i'm doing 50 kg ohp and 105% of that is 52.5 and the smallest plates in my gym are 2.5 so the smallest increase i can make is 55 which is 10% more.

I don't have access to any microplates i've looked everywhere in my city and nobody has them. I can't buy online because the shipping is too expensive.

so can i increase bench next time or is this not considered a pass? and when i pass ohp, is there a way to increase by 10%?

I used chain weights. I just had the local hardware store make some small loops of thick chain and then zip tied together to make 2.5lb sets for micro loading. If that doesnt work, You will have to continue the next cycle to sets of 12 instead of 8 (add an additional 4 reps again). Im sorry but its incredibly hard to advance on an intermediate routine without micro loading. To put it int perspective, if you made a linear intermediate routine and only added 1oz a workout, that would increase someones 300lb bench to 310lbs in a year, that is considered a good pace. I would expect a VERY good 1st year lifter to go from a 950lb power lifting total to 1050 by the end of the 2nd year if they were good. That is only adding 20-25lbs to the 1rm of the bench...

How Many calories would this work out programe burn? thanks

If you were desk bound, did no sports, were not gaining/losing weight, starting the program is good for about a half pound drop per week. The 45-1hour session is only going to burn 250 ish calories during the session, and maybe another 250 cals in afterburn affect.

However people dont realize that they need to adjust their diet every couple of cycles. Ive seen a 2lb per cycle bulk turn into a 2lb per cycle cut because the lifter didnt adjust calories after 6 months of lifting.

FYI its about 75 calories per pound to maintain muscle(between required exercise to keep the muscle, and calories to keep the muscle alive). That is why a couch potato might need 2000 cals, and 18 months and 16lbs of muscle later, they need 3000-3500 calories a day to maintain weight.

[JohnSmithXP]

I used chain weights. I just had the local hardware store make some small loops of thick chain and then zip tied together to make 2.5lb sets for micro loading. If that doesnt work, You will have to continue the next cycle to sets of 12 instead of 8 (add an additional 4 reps again). Im sorry but its incredibly hard to advance on an intermediate routine without micro loading. To put it int perspective, if you made a linear intermediate routine and only added 1oz a workout, that would increase someones 300lb bench to 310lbs in a year, that is considered a good pace. I would expect a VERY good 1st year lifter to go from a 950lb power lifting total to 1050 by the end of the 2nd year if they were good. That is only adding 20-25lbs to the 1rm of the bench...

Yeah thank you but the other question? the last rep on bench i got stuck just before lockout and my friend helped me up, can i increase the weight next time or no?

[danibelanger]

Awesome routine for beginners! It's progressive and simple enough to follow. Thanks for sharing!

[nightanole]

Yeah thank you but the other question? the last rep on bench i got stuck just before lockout and my friend helped me up, can i increase the weight next time or no?

If you can do the new weight for 1 set of ten as a test.

[JohnSmithXP]

If you can do the new weight for 1 set of ten as a test.

10? In this program bench is 4-8 not 8-12 so you mean 6 right?

[nightanole]

10? In this program bench is 4-8 not 8-12 so you mean 6 right?

So you are on novice/intermediate, Sorry yes then it would be 6 reps, or what ever week 3 is.

[SmackBang77]

If you happen to miss reps on test day, then the next cycles 8 rep week will be the 10% deload compared to the previous weeks test day.

Ok, so when you fail only the 8-rep week will be a 10% deload, then for the rest cycle go back on the normal weight you were doing on the previous cycle ?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Ok, so when you fail only the 8-rep week will be a 10% deload, then for the rest cycle go back on the normal weight you were doing on the previous cycle ?

Thanks

No. test day is 2 sets of 12. If you miss you stay at the same weight, and start the next cycle back at 8 reps. The 2 sets of 8 will "feel" 10% lighter than the 2 sets of 12 test day.

That is the basis of allpro, 4 reps = 10%. If you can do 12 reps at 100lbs, then you can also to 8 reps at 110lbs. Hope that makes sense. You never drop weight on allpro.

[DrBirkin62]

I'm sure this was asked before but from research, people have noted the slow progression from ALLPRO. I've found that there was a "butchered" version made to correct the situation. Is that program recommended or no?

I like the idea of keeping weight the same / increasing rep every session and making it a 2 week cycle, but I have no idea if it's as effective as the original program.

Thanks.

[JohnSmithXP]

So you are on novice/intermediate, Sorry yes then it would be 6 reps, or what ever week 3 is.

But also bench is 4 sets. So are you sure being able to do one set of the new weight is enough?

[nightanole]

But also bench is 4 sets. So are you sure being able to do one set of the new weight is enough?

Intermediate is progression is 4 reps and 5%, it takes into account the additional 2 sets.

[nightanole]

I'm sure this was asked before but from research, people have noted the slow progression from ALLPRO. I've found that there was a "butchered" version made to correct the situation. Is that program recommended or no?

I like the idea of keeping weight the same / increasing rep every session and making it a 2 week cycle, but I have no idea if it's as effective as the original program.

Thanks.

People note the slow progression of allpro just like they note GOMAD from starting strength will make you fat.

10% bumps are the absolute minimum progression pattern. If just just a program based on worst case, it will look bad. A lot of first time squatters can double their working weight in 3 cycles.
Butchered is more like the bulking version, if you can handle the increased volume and respond well, go for it.
If you want to run vanilla and try to add 15-20lbs to your 100lb bench each cycle, go for it.
A third option is auto regulated, however it is not recomended for people whole are just starting out, you have several hundred reps under your belt, go for it.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

[astronut96]

Before I get into my question I'd like to say thanks to everyone who responds to all of the questions. That is the first time I've posted here but I follow regularly and I've gotten so much from the Q&A.

Now to my question ... I am female, 5'4" roughly 166 lbs. I'm in my 3rd week of cycle 2 and really loving the program. However, I am struggling to feel good glute/hamstring activation in the SLDL. I've read a ton on proper form, and I feel like my form is okay - while I feel it in my lower back, it's not painful. I've been reading recently that sumo deadlifts are good for glute/hamstring work, especially for someone with my stature (short legs & arms with longer torso) and can help with the squat as well. I tried it with just the bar today after my SLDL sets and it felt good. In the context of this program, is it okay to replace the SLDL with the sumo deadlift or should I just keep working on the SLDL?

Thanks for your time!

[munichveteran]

I just completed my first "test day" (Cycle 1, Week 5, Heavy day). Had a few questions:

1) I've subbed a fair amount of exercises in to my program due to chronic injuries, and landmine/lumberjack squats is one of those. Does anyone else do these? I passed today, but I've been finding that I don't necessarily "feel" them in my quads, and definitely don't feel anything in my glutes. Don't get me wrong, the 12th rep is a struggle, but I feel it everywhere as opposed to just my quads, and I'm out of breath by the end of it. Does that make sense? Is the simple answer because it's a compound exercise?

2) I can't do bent over barbell rows. I tried chest-supported rows with dumbbells, but couldn't seem to get my form right. I was feeling it in my traps and rear delts, so I switched to bent over single arm DB rows...and I don't feel great about this either. I just don't feel that I'm targeting my back, and I'm feeling it more in my shoulder. Any tips on how to correct this?

3) The only exercise I failed on was chin ups. I made 1x12, then 1x10. Nothing left in the tank to get 2 more reps, even if I cheated on form. Confirming that I keep the same weight for the next cycle and just start again? Also, I use a neutral grip because that's how the assisted machine that I'm using is set up. Is neutral grip OK? I can also do widegrip (palms away) on this machine if that's better?

4) I'm subbing in high knee farmer's walks. How do I incorporate progressive overload with this? Weight? Distance? Both?

Many thanks!

[nightanole]

Before I get into my question I'd like to say thanks to everyone who responds to all of the questions. That is the first time I've posted here but I follow regularly and I've gotten so much from the Q&A.

Now to my question ... I am female, 5'4" roughly 166 lbs. I'm in my 3rd week of cycle 2 and really loving the program. However, I am struggling to feel good glute/hamstring activation in the SLDL. I've read a ton on proper form, and I feel like my form is okay - while I feel it in my lower back, it's not painful. I've been reading recently that sumo deadlifts are good for glute/hamstring work, especially for someone with my stature (short legs & arms with longer torso) and can help with the squat as well. I tried it with just the bar today after my SLDL sets and it felt good. In the context of this program, is it okay to replace the SLDL with the sumo deadlift or should I just keep working on the SLDL?

Thanks for your time!

I think you are doing the movement wrong, and are flexing the back durring the movement vs using the spinal erectors for a static hold. This causes an extra sore back and no glute (since you removed tension from them).

If you switch to sumo, you will also need to include at least one set of good mornings. And if you do the good mornings the same way as your sldl, its still not going to fix the problem. The sumo is not a hamstring stretch, and its why the SLDL is chosen on this program. The only alt to the SLDL is the good morning.

[nightanole]

I just completed my first "test day" (Cycle 1, Week 5, Heavy day). Had a few questions:

1) I've subbed a fair amount of exercises in to my program due to chronic injuries, and landmine/lumberjack squats is one of those. Does anyone else do these? I passed today, but I've been finding that I don't necessarily "feel" them in my quads, and definitely don't feel anything in my glutes. Don't get me wrong, the 12th rep is a struggle, but I feel it everywhere as opposed to just my quads, and I'm out of breath by the end of it. Does that make sense? Is the simple answer because it's a compound exercise?

2) I can't do bent over barbell rows. I tried chest-supported rows with dumbbells, but couldn't seem to get my form right. I was feeling it in my traps and rear delts, so I switched to bent over single arm DB rows...and I don't feel great about this either. I just don't feel that I'm targeting my back, and I'm feeling it more in my shoulder. Any tips on how to correct this?

3) The only exercise I failed on was chin ups. I made 1x12, then 1x10. Nothing left in the tank to get 2 more reps, even if I cheated on form. Confirming that I keep the same weight for the next cycle and just start again? Also, I use a neutral grip because that's how the assisted machine that I'm using is set up. Is neutral grip OK? I can also do widegrip (palms away) on this machine if that's better?

4) I'm subbing in high knee farmer's walks. How do I incorporate progressive overload with this? Weight? Distance? Both?

Many thanks!

landmines take the back out the equation and turn it into a leg press, so i dont understand how you couldnt feel it. But yea its a compound so you shouldnt be targeting anything in-particular.

For a row, you need a reverse bench row somehow. You literally do that. Try an inverted row.

Chinups should be the same grip as a barbell curl.

farmer walks should be increasing weight. And its an accessory so dont expect to progress fast on it.

[Tim1137]

HI this is my first post so I hope this doesn't come off as a stupid questions since I am a beginner, but I wanted to start out with this program. I have my own weights/bar/bench etc. at home, but no rack to do the squats. Could I stand in front of my bench to do a front barbell squat instead of the regular behind the head way using a rack?

Thanks for any help

[nightanole]

HI this is my first post so I hope this doesn't come off as a stupid questions since I am a beginner, but I wanted to start out with this program. I have my own weights/bar/bench etc. at home, but no rack to do the squats. Could I stand in front of my bench to do a front barbell squat instead of the regular behind the head way using a rack?

Thanks for any help

Best replacement is a zercher squat. If you cant do that then yes the front squat is the next best thing. However the zercher will carry over alot more to the back squat vs the front squat.

[DrBirkin62]

Sorry to pester you with so many questions!

Today was my third day. I'm doing the butchered version as you said since it's mainly for bulking. So today was the same weight with 9 reps. For some reason today I found it somewhat easy to do my original weight for my overhead presses and Deadlifts. The first day I could barely do 8 reps with just the bar for the ohp. Doing 9 reps of the bar seemed a little too easy. Is it because my form is getting better? Should I just increase weight for those exercises? I know the FAQ says wait til the end of the cycle but I'm on day 3.

Thank you!!,

[nightanole]

Sorry to pester you with so many questions!

Today was my third day. I'm doing the butchered version as you said since it's mainly for bulking. So today was the same weight with 9 reps. For some reason today I found it somewhat easy to do my original weight for my overhead presses and Deadlifts. The first day I could barely do 8 reps with just the bar for the ohp. Doing 9 reps of the bar seemed a little too easy. Is it because my form is getting better? Should I just increase weight for those exercises? I know the FAQ says wait til the end of the cycle but I'm on day 3.

Thank you!!,

I dont really answer butchered questions, it has a thread with an active OP. On either program the test is 1 set of 10 with the weight you want to use. 8 rep week should feel like there is 2 reps in the tank.

[enr33]

I dont really answer butchered questions, it has a thread with an active OP. On either program the test is 1 set of 10 with the weight you want to use. 8 rep week should feel like there is 2 reps in the tank.

Hey brah so my macros were nearly perfect for today. I hit the gym then took 3 scoops whey protein, then had lunch at cafeteria (catfish, macaroni, milk) and then I threw up all over the place. Are all my gainz for today lost?

[DrakHarr]

Hey brah so my macros were nearly perfect for today. I hit the gym then took 3 scoops whey protein, then had lunch at cafeteria (catfish, macaroni, milk) and then I threw up all over the place. Are all my gainz for today lost?

Not if you make up the macros. But if you're sick that might be the last thing you need. It's one reason I don't eat anywhere near when I workout - apparently even when I fast for nearly 24 hours I feel nauseous after heavy day on sometimes 10, and always 11 and 12 rep week.

[DrakHarr]

So today was week 4, heavy day, of cycle 3. I passed both sets of 11, somehow. I felt sick as a dog after the workout though, let me tell you.

145 squat - actually not a problem. I took a short brreather (under 5 seconds) between rep 8 and 9 on each set.
135 bench - I somehow belted out 11 and 11, the last rep was a reeeeal grinder though. Not sure I'll make 12 12 next week.
95 row - managed, also tough.
75 OHP - This wasn't hard last week! Now it was hard as hell.. probably fatigue from the bench. I'm worried that I'm going to pass bench and fail this again, likely solely because of bench fatigue.
SLDL 120 - went fine, but made me nauseous as always.
65 curl - Grinded them out, burned like hell.
135 pendalay - got 2 reps in, somehow, I need to work on getting it all the way to my chest, but I know the main point is the explosiveness, not actually lifting more with this, I feel it IS helping my BOR.
Cal raises 135 (14 reps this week) - whatever, it's calf raises.

I'm about 5.5 lbs down since I started the cycle.

[munichveteran]

landmines take the back out the equation and turn it into a leg press, so i dont understand how you couldnt feel it. But yea its a compound so you shouldnt be targeting anything in-particular.

For a row, you need a reverse bench row somehow. You literally do that. Try an inverted row.

Chinups should be the same grip as a barbell curl.

farmer walks should be increasing weight. And its an accessory so dont expect to progress fast on it.

On the landmines, it’s not that I can’t feel it at all in the quads…what I mean is, when I do seated leg curls I really feel it in my hamstrings. They burn like hell once I reached 10-11 reps. It’s not the same feeling in my quads when I do landmines, and I’m trying to figure out if it’s because my form is off somehow. Apparently landmines are close to foolproof when it comes to poor form, but if there’s a way to do it poorly I’ll find it!

I’ll try the inverted row. I checked it out and I expect I’ll struggle to make 2x8 with bodyweight, but let’s see what happens. Either way, how do I progress that? Balance a plate on my belly?

I can switch my chin up grip to facing me, but the assisted chin up machine I use has a weird set up for the bar. If I’m to do chins with palms facing me, by hands will be wider than shoulder width because it’s L-shaped on either side. It’s not a straight bar across. Is it OK to do chins (palms facing me) with my hands wider than shoulder width?

Farmers Walks - For cycle 1 I carried 45lb DBs on heavy day, 40lbs on medium, 35lbs on light. I then walked a little further each week for "rep" progression. Next week (cycle 2) I'll bump the DBs up to 50lb on heavy, 45 on medium, 40 on light, and then follow the same progression of distance as cycle 1. Correct?

Last question...with these program changes (inverted row instead of BOR etc), do I start to incorporate now (for day 2 of week 5, cycle 1) or finish the cycle as is and incorporate the changes next week (day 1 of week 1, cycle 2)?

Thanks!

[enr33]

Not if you make up the macros. But if you're sick that might be the last thing you need. It's one reason I don't eat anywhere near when I workout - apparently even when I fast for nearly 24 hours I feel nauseous after heavy day on sometimes 10, and always 11 and 12 rep week.

thanks brah but i was actually seeking input from nightanole

also nightanhole what would be my best plan now? The meal I threw up put me at 2800/3500 calories I bulk on and it was a 1000 calorie meal.....

fml seriosuly, its one thing after another