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  1. #3061
    Registered User vimalrajsharma8's Avatar
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    Due to mobility and back pain issues I have ditched squats and SLD and replaced it Deadlift, Legpress and Leg curls. Is this ok?

    What should be the correct order of exercises with these replacements?
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  2. #3062
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vimalrajsharma8 View Post
    Due to mobility and back pain issues I have ditched squats and SLD and replaced it Deadlift, Legpress and Leg curls. Is this ok?

    What should be the correct order of exercises with these replacements?
    Oh boy i love it when they change the program before they even try to run it with baby weights...


    Squats can be replaced with hack squats (deadlift with the bar behind the foot) or trap bar deadlifts using the lower handles.

    SLDL can be replaced with the RDL, it would allow for a more back friendly upright angle, and it still wouldnt touch the ground between reps unless you have god like mobility.

    You dont need a leg press or leg curls on any beginner routine till you are deadlifting 4 plate or more. You could try doing some glute ham raises for a few reps at the end of the workouts if you are strong enough.

    I would also check out biolanes latest video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ETSo14cBA&gl=CA

    the first exercise where he does the slight above the ground leg lift may help you out.
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  3. #3063
    Registered User rlefebvr's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=
    You dont need a leg press or leg curls on any beginner routine till you are deadlifting 4 plate or more. [/QUOTE]

    I did not know that. Not doing them anyway, but used to do dumbbell squats in my old routine to simulate Leg press.

    Was planning on adding walking lunges with dumbbells somewhere in the routine as I am worried about my hamstrings not getting enough work from your setup. (hamstrings are a concern for me)

    Or do you think stiff legged deadlift is more than enough for the time being.

    Ron
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  4. #3064
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rlefebvr View Post
    I did not know that. Not doing them anyway, but used to do dumbbell squats in my old routine to simulate Leg press.

    Was planning on adding walking lunges with dumbbells somewhere in the routine as I am worried about my hamstrings not getting enough work from your setup. (hamstrings are a concern for me)

    Or do you think stiff legged deadlift is more than enough for the time being.

    Ron
    Best hamstring hitters are the goodmorning and the glute ham raise depending on goal.

    legpresses and leg curls are for intermediates that need more volume to grow, but cant throw more squats/deads into their program without getting repetitive stress injuries and/or dieing from compound volume. Unfortunately recovery does not increase with strength/sets, so you need to fine other ways of throwing volume into the program.
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  5. #3065
    Registered User kopgamer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kopgamer View Post
    First of all, thanks for still maintaining this thread.

    I'm 38, 2.04m (6ft 8.3in) height, 98kg (216 lbs).
    As I said previously; I'm tall and skinny. I bought a gym membership just to do this workout. And it didn't work out as I expected.

    Since I haven't done weight lifting in my life and haven't done any cardio/sport past 8 months, the trainers at my gym weren't happy with this workout.

    First they didn't want to run this routine, because I'm so weak. They said "it isnt suitable for you, it isnt a beginner workut, etc.." But I insisted, then they gave me the program with a cardio training before and after. I ruled that out, but also it was missing overhead barbell press. Why? "Because it is too much stress on shoulders" Yeah, replace it with a less stress move then? no. They just didn't write any. But when I showed that to another trainer in the gym, the guy said "Your program lacks shoulders and back arm." Yeah cause you didn't write any.


    Anyway, I was so excited to do this routine but I'm struggling with trainers ignoring me, smiling because I'm trying to do bench press with a plain barbell bar. I used to do squatss but I can't get deep now, so I'm doing normal squats instead of barbell squats cause I dont want to hur my knees.

    What should I do, other than changing my gym? Should I do the workout as intended without any weight attached to barbell to prevent injury? Or should I just accept the defeat and get a new "trainer approved" workout plan involving cardio, weight lifting machines and yoga mats to get some strength first? Or should I go for weightless / easier versions of this workout for a month to build a little strength first?
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  6. #3066
    Registered User T4YL0R's Avatar
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    Nightanole amazing thread. Can't stop dipping in for advice.
    I'm currently on week1 cycle2
    Squat 155
    Bench 110
    Row 120
    O press 72
    Sldl 120
    Curl 66
    Calf 240

    Was concerned for heavy day today but smashed it. Although feeling it on squat and bench.

    Age 40 and 6ft1in currently 201lb having lost 7 lb since January on 1900 calories per day.

    Do you think my current weights and diet are ok to continue progressing.

    The goal of 1xbw bench and 1.5xbw squat at 13% body fat would be exactly were I want to be after completing.

    My concern Is I'm carrying a lot of fat in stomach area (classic beer belly). The rest of my body is in proportion.
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  7. #3067
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by T4YL0R View Post
    Nightanole amazing thread. Can't stop dipping in for advice.
    I'm currently on week1 cycle2
    Squat 155
    Bench 110
    Row 120
    O press 72
    Sldl 120
    Curl 66
    Calf 240

    Was concerned for heavy day today but smashed it. Although feeling it on squat and bench.

    Age 40 and 6ft1in currently 201lb having lost 7 lb since January on 1900 calories per day.

    Do you think my current weights and diet are ok to continue progressing.

    The goal of 1xbw bench and 1.5xbw squat at 13% body fat would be exactly were I want to be after completing.

    My concern Is I'm carrying a lot of fat in stomach area (classic beer belly). The rest of my body is in proportion.
    Yea need to lose about 20lbs by cycle 7 to be on par. Currently your cals are a little low and your weight loss is a little high. If you are still progressing fine go for it, but i have women whos maintenance is your current diet, and im only 150lbs and would want to eat my hand on that diet. You only need to lose a pound a week of fat (i say fat since odds are you are gaining a pound or so of muscle per cycle) to have a 1-2 month buffer before cycle 7. And since you will be losing 10% of your body weight you should have no problem getting 9 cycles out of the program.
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  8. #3068
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kopgamer View Post
    As I said previously; I'm tall and skinny. I bought a gym membership just to do this workout. And it didn't work out as I expected.

    Since I haven't done weight lifting in my life and haven't done any cardio/sport past 8 months, the trainers at my gym weren't happy with this workout.

    First they didn't want to run this routine, because I'm so weak. They said "it isnt suitable for you, it isnt a beginner workut, etc.." But I insisted, then they gave me the program with a cardio training before and after. I ruled that out, but also it was missing overhead barbell press. Why? "Because it is too much stress on shoulders" Yeah, replace it with a less stress move then? no. They just didn't write any. But when I showed that to another trainer in the gym, the guy said "Your program lacks shoulders and back arm." Yeah cause you didn't write any.


    Anyway, I was so excited to do this routine but I'm struggling with trainers ignoring me, smiling because I'm trying to do bench press with a plain barbell bar. I used to do squatss but I can't get deep now, so I'm doing normal squats instead of barbell squats cause I dont want to hur my knees.

    What should I do, other than changing my gym? Should I do the workout as intended without any weight attached to barbell to prevent injury? Or should I just accept the defeat and get a new "trainer approved" workout plan involving cardio, weight lifting machines and yoga mats to get some strength first? Or should I go for weightless / easier versions of this workout for a month to build a little strength first?
    Im impressed when people are OHP 70lbs at the end of the program, that just the bar and a 10er on each side with some change. People get excited mid program when they get to start benching that magical 1 plate.

    Look at the strong dudes at the gym, they are warming up with bands, and 90% of them will be doing the first warmup with just the bar. They do "funny" exercises like facepulls with little to no weight. You are only there 45min, just do your time and get out. For every pound you gain odds are you will be putting 2-4lbs on each lift since you are under weight. Its going to take time since you are a bit under weight and cant just bulk off your gut like most beginners.
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  9. #3069
    Registered User T4YL0R's Avatar
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    Thanks man. I'm going to up the calories a bit, I was thinking that as felt wiped out after last week of first cycle.
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  10. #3070
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    Measured waist at 32" this morning, at belly button before consuming anything, which a calculator estimates at 13% BF. Does that sound about right based on this photo from a few days ago (note the anterior pelvic tilt)? I'm planning to start clean bulking now (per Nightanole's advice to cut to 13% first) but just wanted to make sure that the estimate isn't way off and end up starting a bulk at 15-20%.
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  11. #3071
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Josh1billion View Post
    Measured waist at 32" this morning, at belly button before consuming anything, which a calculator estimates at 13% BF. Does that sound about right based on this photo from a few days ago (note the anterior pelvic tilt)? I'm planning to start clean bulking now (per Nightanole's advice to cut to 13% first) but just wanted to make sure that the estimate isn't way off and end up starting a bulk at 15-20%.
    Looks like 13% to me, maybe even a little under. Id start adding 250 cals a week till i started feeling more energy and the scale started moving about 2 pounds per cycle. 2lbs per cycle is going to take 250-500 calorie surplus depending on the person. Some times just adding 250 cals just makes the person more twitchy and they end up just burning it all off like giving a kid sugar.
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  12. #3072
    Registered User vimalrajsharma8's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I am 5'7" tall and started lifting 7 months ago with 95 kg. I switched to Allpro program 3 weeks ago and right now at 84.5 kgs. Current bf percentage is 38.

    Is it possible for me as a fat beginner to loose fat and gain muscle simultaneously by keeping calories deficit of 400 and eating 1 gram protein per lb of lean mass?

    If yes then please tell till what bf percentage is it possible to gain muscle and loose fat simultaneously?
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  13. #3073
    Regular Back Brah Josh1billion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Looks like 13% to me, maybe even a little under. Id start adding 250 cals a week till i started feeling more energy and the scale started moving about 2 pounds per cycle. 2lbs per cycle is going to take 250-500 calorie surplus depending on the person. Some times just adding 250 cals just makes the person more twitchy and they end up just burning it all off like giving a kid sugar.
    Thanks again for your insight. I'll follow your advice and start adding calories in that pattern and see how everything progresses.
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  14. #3074
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vimalrajsharma8 View Post
    Hi,

    I am 5'7" tall and started lifting 7 months ago with 95 kg. I switched to Allpro program 3 weeks ago and right now at 84.5 kgs. Current bf percentage is 38.

    Is it possible for me as a fat beginner to loose fat and gain muscle simultaneously by keeping calories deficit of 400 and eating 1 gram protein per lb of lean mass?

    If yes then please tell till what bf percentage is it possible to gain muscle and loose fat simultaneously?
    Allpro you can lose about .5-1lb per week while going up 10% in lifts per cycle till you get to about 13% (flexed abs but smooth when relaxed). Just start out light, like your 11-12 rep max, since you will have reduced recovery.

    You also dont need 1g per pound till you are sub 13% and are shooting for relaxed abs. 1g per kg is fine, or even just a flat 100g till your TDEE is above 3000 cals.
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  15. #3075
    Registered User agoodz's Avatar
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    For the second time in about a year I got an exertion headache from squats. I got one early last year in this program at about the 120-130 lb mark, took a couple weeks off and recovered fine. After suffering an injury over the summer I had to take a big break and reset the weights. I started lifting again in October but got another headache again today at the 12 rep 110lb mark. I know there is no substitute for squats but is there something similar I can do in this routine to avoid the squat, I'm eating at a slight caloric surplus trying to build some muscle. Or should I attempt to take a couple weeks off and try working out while taking an ibuprofen 30 min before I go to the gym and see if that helps? Is there a specific cause of exertion headaches that I can work on, like incorrect form?
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  16. #3076
    Registered User Sh724's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by agoodz View Post
    For the second time in about a year I got an exertion headache from squats. I got one early last year in this program at about the 120-130 lb mark, took a couple weeks off and recovered fine. After suffering an injury over the summer I had to take a big break and reset the weights. I started lifting again in October but got another headache again today at the 12 rep 110lb mark. I know there is no substitute for squats but is there something similar I can do in this routine to avoid the squat, I'm eating at a slight caloric surplus trying to build some muscle. Or should I attempt to take a couple weeks off and try working out while taking an ibuprofen 30 min before I go to the gym and see if that helps? Is there a specific cause of exertion headaches that I can work on, like incorrect form?
    "This is true of a headache as well—any head pain that occurs during a tough workout is likely a sign that you haven't had enough fluid, and it should ease once you take a good, long drink from your water bottle. When to call your doctor: If it doesn't go away after a few hours after your workout."

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  17. #3077
    Registered User deckchairz's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    Curls with the oly bar are a pain, cat add enough weight to have a heavy/medium/light day

    Should I do upright rows instead for a few cycles with some dumbbell curls at end? or just stick to uprights?
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  18. #3078
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deckchairz View Post
    Hey guys,

    Curls with the oly bar are a pain, cat add enough weight to have a heavy/medium/light day

    Should I do upright rows instead for a few cycles with some dumbbell curls at end? or just stick to uprights?
    You can do what ever you want as long as its a bicep exercise that is the opposite grip of your row. You can even do assisted chinups if you want, or DB curls.
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  19. #3079
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    Hello guys. I just found out the routine by allpro and i decided to begin this workout. I started last week and I am determined to stick with the routine for at least 2 cycles. The problem is I have trouble while doing BORs. I think I can't perform the exercise with the correct form and that puts strain to my right shoulder. That leads to the fact that I can't perform my max with the next exercise which is OHP.

    Can I replace the BORs with T-Bar Rows with wide grip? I think that this exercise affects pretty much the same muscles and i find it much easier to perform it properly.

    I' ve searched many threads to find an answer but i couldn't. If someone can enlighten me about this query, that would be much appreciated.

    P.S Sorry if I make you answer something that's repeated over and over but I can't search all threads one by one
    P.S 2 I know my english is a little poor.
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  20. #3080
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JeanRoqua View Post
    Hello guys. I just found out the routine by allpro and i decided to begin this workout. I started last week and I am determined to stick with the routine for at least 2 cycles. The problem is I have trouble while doing BORs. I think I can't perform the exercise with the correct form and that puts strain to my right shoulder. That leads to the fact that I can't perform my max with the next exercise which is OHP.

    Can I replace the BORs with T-Bar Rows with wide grip? I think that this exercise affects pretty much the same muscles and i find it much easier to perform it properly.

    I' ve searched many threads to find an answer but i couldn't. If someone can enlighten me about this query, that would be much appreciated.

    P.S Sorry if I make you answer something that's repeated over and over but I can't search all threads one by one
    P.S 2 I know my english is a little poor.
    The Tbar row takes the back out of the movement, it is not recommended. You could just replace it with assisted pullups or inverted rows, and add some farmer carries at the end of the workout to hit your core.

    Unfortunately all the replacements for the bent over row, look like the bent over row. You need something that looks like the opposite of the benchpress, and keeps your core in a static hold.
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  21. #3081
    Registered User JeanRoqua's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The Tbar row takes the back out of the movement, it is not recommended. You could just replace it with assisted pullups or inverted rows, and add some farmer carries at the end of the workout to hit your core.

    Unfortunately all the replacements for the bent over row, look like the bent over row. You need something that looks like the opposite of the benchpress, and keeps your core in a static hold.

    Are you sure that tbar wide grip doesn't affect back muscles? I am watching this exercise on youtube and everything in its form seems exactly the same as BORs!

    I guess I ll stick with BOR then..



    I guess I will stick with proper BOR then..
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    Heavy day of week 4 cycle 1 today and them last 3 OHP were hard man the last one needed everything I had left in me, I think I had a shorter rest period than usual but next week on test day getting the second 12 out is gonna be hard work, every other workout I have enough in the tank but just about, BOR will be increased more than the others as I think i have more in me to lift heavier! Would you recommend 20% with BOR and 10% extra with the rest?
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  23. #3083
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JeanRoqua View Post
    Are you sure that tbar wide grip doesn't affect back muscles? I am watching this exercise on youtube and everything in its form seems exactly the same as BORs!

    I guess I ll stick with BOR then..



    I guess I will stick with proper BOR then..
    The T bar row is for high frequency squatters/deadlifters than want to work their lats and upper back. It does not work your core, legs or lower back at all.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PhantomEater View Post
    Heavy day of week 4 cycle 1 today and them last 3 OHP were hard man the last one needed everything I had left in me, I think I had a shorter rest period than usual but next week on test day getting the second 12 out is gonna be hard work, every other workout I have enough in the tank but just about, BOR will be increased more than the others as I think i have more in me to lift heavier! Would you recommend 20% with BOR and 10% extra with the rest?
    On light day on test week do one set of rows with the new weight you think you can handle. If you cant get in 10 reps, only up it 10% or so instead of 15-20%. And yes 11-12 rep weeks are the over reach section of the program than is very taxing. The rest of the cycle is done with reps in the tank.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You can do what ever you want as long as its a bicep exercise that is the opposite grip of your row. You can even do assisted chinups if you want, or DB curls.
    Cheers man... I added upright rows and finished off with supanated db curls... will switch it to barbell when strength improved... thanks!

    Finished C1W1 heavy... felt easy today but im sure it will become intense at week 4!
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    kroc rows are volume work for deadlifters. This is your first cycle, i am not going to throw volume at you. You have imbalances, you are using movements your body is still inefficient at. Let the program do its work, you could even reset lighter. Id rather you keep your bar speed up and be able to pull/push full force, vs dogging it to get all the reps in.

    I hate to tell ya, but if you bump the weight for next cycle, its just going to have the same form and feel next cycle, you just be stronger using the lifting form you are using now. Use the first cycle or 2 to dial in the weights and your form, so you feel strong and confident for weight bumps, not weak and looking for bandaids.
    Oh okay so. Thanks for your patience. Speaking then of ineffiencies, the only comfortable position for the Bent Over Row is one that tends to mean the bar hits (more accurately can rest) on my knees. I am 5'11 and I have fairly tight hamstrings, so maybe that factors into it. Equally, it is a postion that reduces the feeling of stress on the lower back- I wouldn't have even assumed it was potentially incorrect except I saw it mentioned as an error on that StrongLifts guys page (then again he seems to be going for a pretty parallel to the floor style BOR).

    Any suggestion for how to fix that or is it fine for a 45 degree angle style row?
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    Registered User Surgicalburd's Avatar
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    Ok, so I just finished Week 4 Heavy day and I am a little disheartened to be honest. My squats; since adjusted as per my previous comments about starting too heavy, HAVE been going smoothly(as much as they can). Bench, I DID fail Week 4 on Set 2 at 8 reps. But what makes me nervous is my SLDL. My legs can handle the weight just fine, but my grip is failing. Its usually my 3rd workout, as bench and squat take precedence due to their taxing nature. If my grip fails me mid-set and I have to drop the bar to rest my arms, even though my legs are still filled with fuel and ready to go, does that grip-failure constitute an automatic fail on week 5? It's just my grip, not the muscles involved. My legs can handle it, just not my wee-little hands.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blackfieldgates View Post
    Oh okay so. Thanks for your patience. Speaking then of ineffiencies, the only comfortable position for the Bent Over Row is one that tends to mean the bar hits (more accurately can rest) on my knees. I am 5'11 and I have fairly tight hamstrings, so maybe that factors into it. Equally, it is a postion that reduces the feeling of stress on the lower back- I wouldn't have even assumed it was potentially incorrect except I saw it mentioned as an error on that StrongLifts guys page (then again he seems to be going for a pretty parallel to the floor style BOR).

    Any suggestion for how to fix that or is it fine for a 45 degree angle style row?
    Its bent over, 45 is fine. A lot of peoples form is just gliding the weight over the quads. As long as you are not getting more upright as the set goes on you are good. For other people they are more comfortable really really bent over and the bar hits their chest the same spot the bench press does. If i tried that with my short legs and long torso my head would hit the floor.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Surgicalburd View Post
    Ok, so I just finished Week 4 Heavy day and I am a little disheartened to be honest. My squats; since adjusted as per my previous comments about starting too heavy, HAVE been going smoothly(as much as they can). Bench, I DID fail Week 4 on Set 2 at 8 reps. But what makes me nervous is my SLDL. My legs can handle the weight just fine, but my grip is failing. Its usually my 3rd workout, as bench and squat take precedence due to their taxing nature. If my grip fails me mid-set and I have to drop the bar to rest my arms, even though my legs are still filled with fuel and ready to go, does that grip-failure constitute an automatic fail on week 5? It's just my grip, not the muscles involved. My legs can handle it, just not my wee-little hands.
    Spend some money on some wrist wraps (not straps), they will help you grip heavy weight tighter without reducing loads on the forearm muscles. Id add some farmer carries next cycle,allpro only has row and SLDL for grip work, and you are failing at one. You might also want to start practicing the hook grip on medium/light days. You will need it if you ever start real deadlifitng with 1.5x bw and above. Double over hand only lasts so long, and i dont recommend mix grip for rep work.
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    Registered User Surgicalburd's Avatar
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    So if my grip somehow fails on me next week mid-set, do I call that a "fail" or the workout if I know and feel that I can do more with the muscles I am using? I'd hate for something so simple to be the reason I start all over. Also, before AllPro, I actually got pretty used to hook grips with my dominate hand over, the other under. I was just about to crest over the 200lb mark before I gave this program a whirl. Gotta admit, double-overs is kind of.......weird now.
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