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  1. #3001
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rlefebvr View Post
    I can't find the novice pattern anywhere.

    Is that the exact same program but with just 1 less set and less reps.

    If it is I think I will go with that to start

    Ron
    "novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts (bench, squat, and row) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest. The rest of the program is still 8-12 reps. The novice lifts you start with a weight you can lift 6-7 times.

    Up sides to novice, you get an extra 90 seconds of rest so you can work at a higher capacity
    Down sides to novice, you double your volume from start to finish every cycle vs only increasing it 50% on regular.


    PS: i think you are miss reading the program a little. All exercises only have 2 work sets (3 if on novice). the first 3 lifts also have 2 warmup sets. Some miss read that as a 4 set program.
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  2. #3002
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    "novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts (bench, squat, and row) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest. The rest of the program is still 8-12 reps. The novice lifts you start with a weight you can lift 6-7 times.

    Up sides to novice, you get an extra 90 seconds of rest so you can work at a higher capacity
    Down sides to novice, you double your volume from start to finish every cycle vs only increasing it 50% on regular.


    PS: i think you are miss reading the program a little. All exercises only have 2 work sets (3 if on novice). the first 3 lifts also have 2 warmup sets. Some miss read that as a 4 set program.
    I did miss that. I think the novice setup is still perfect for now however. I can always change later.

    Thanks

    Ron
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  3. #3003
    Registered User alexl11's Avatar
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    This program is incomplete as it has no vertical pulling but yet it has Bicep Curls which is a movement beginners don't need to do until maybe the late beginner/early intermediate phase, some kind of Lat Pulldown or Chinup/Pullup is needed in place of the Bicep Curls.

    Any good solid program should always have at least the following 6 kind of movements in place before anything else: Horizontal Push, Vertical Push, Horizontal Pull, Vertical Pull, Squat Variant (including Leg Press) and Hip Hinge (eg. Deadlift, RDL)
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  4. #3004
    Registered User UncleLemmon's Avatar
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    With the exception of time what are the pros and cons of doing warmup sets for each excercise?
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  5. #3005
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UncleLemmon View Post
    With the exception of time what are the pros and cons of doing warmup sets for each excercise?
    If your 2nd set feels better than your first set, you didnt want up enough, if you want a test.

    Warmups after the first 3 lifts were dropped after teh first six months the program was posted, because too many people were stalling from the additional volume. I will still do a warmup set with the bar when OHP after benching...
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  6. #3006
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alexl11 View Post
    This program is incomplete as it has no vertical pulling but yet it has Bicep Curls which is a movement beginners don't need to do until maybe the late beginner/early intermediate phase, some kind of Lat Pulldown or Chinup/Pullup is needed in place of the Bicep Curls.

    Any good solid program should always have at least the following 6 kind of movements in place before anything else: Horizontal Push, Vertical Push, Horizontal Pull, Vertical Pull, Squat Variant (including Leg Press) and Hip Hinge (eg. Deadlift, RDL)
    And there isnt a 2-3:1 pull push ratio, honestly i dont know how they can even scratch their backs after doing this program.
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  7. #3007
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    I just started this program 3 weeks ago and so far so good. I used to lift in college but have been cycling running for the past 6 years and just getting back into it. Are there any pictures that anyone can provide of their before / after working with the program and how long you have been on it etc? Thanks and I am starting to feel stronger even after 3 weeks but not rushing it.
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  8. #3008
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Aspenextreme03 View Post
    I just started this program 3 weeks ago and so far so good. I used to lift in college but have been cycling running for the past 6 years and just getting back into it. Are there any pictures that anyone can provide of their before / after working with the program and how long you have been on it etc? Thanks and I am starting to feel stronger even after 3 weeks but not rushing it.
    Its a lonely thread...

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=157445363
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  9. #3009
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    And there isnt a 2-3:1 pull push ratio, honestly i dont know how they can even scratch their backs after doing this program.
    The Allpros program is 1:2 pull push ratio lol at least if you put Latpulldowns in place of Bicep curls and add some Facepulls then you would have 3:2 ratio which is much better.
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  10. #3010
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    Originally Posted by alexl11 View Post
    The Allpros program is 1:2 pull push ratio lol at least if you put Latpulldowns in place of Bicep curls and add some Facepulls then you would have 3:2 ratio which is much better.
    This program has been around for quite some time and has been used be a lot of people with success. Your negativity is not needed, if you dont like the program then create your own. No one asked for you to come in here and criticize the program and there is no reason for it other to make yourself seem intelligent.

    If you actually read how the program works you would know curls were only thrown in bc people obsess over bigger arms. There are also isolation exercises that can be added once the program has begun which could include lat pulls, face pulls, chin ups, pull ups, etc. depending on the needs of that specific person.

    In summary dont be a douche if you dont like it then keep quiet and move along, but if you really have to open your mouth then create your own program instead of criticizing what other people are doing.
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  11. #3011
    Registered User deckchairz's Avatar
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    Hi Guys decided to jump on the AP bandwagon. Shifts have changed at work and gym is too busy when i train. Have purchased a power rack bench and bar. I'm 6.0 and currently 195. Holding some fat around mid section. Ran SL for a few months and have since not been training for past 2 months, have lost quite a bit of strength by being lazy.

    Quick couple of questions;

    How much of a deficit to run to lose fat, but able to progress in weights?

    Should i run with upright rows and add curls after cycle 3?

    Going to test my 10rep maxes tomorrow ( Monday ).. can i run the medium and light day this week and start w1 next week?

    Looking forward to run this program, looks great.
    Last edited by deckchairz; 01-29-2017 at 08:29 AM.
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  12. #3012
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    Question

    OP how many reps can we do in each set? Is 5 sufficient?
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  13. #3013
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deckchairz View Post
    Hi Guys decided to jump on the AP bandwagon. Shifts have changed at work and gym is too busy when i train. Have purchased a power rack bench and bar. I'm 6.0 and currently 195. Holding some fat around mid section. Ran SL for a few months and have since not been training for past 2 months, have lost quite a bit of strength by being lazy.

    Quick couple of questions;

    How much of a deficit to run to lose fat, but able to progress in weights?

    Should i run with upright rows and add curls after cycle 3?

    Going to test my 10rep maxes tomorrow ( Monday ).. can i run the medium and light day this week and start w1 next week?

    Looking forward to run this program, looks great.
    Recomended starting diet is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs, its hard to perform below that. You can add up to 3 10k jogs per week that take over an hour each. We are not looking for sub 20min 5k runs.

    You need an exercise the the opposite grip of your row. For most i recommend; chinups(or band assisted if cant do 10 yet), incline supenation db curls, chinup style lat pulldowns.
    Upright rows can also work if you want side delt/neck work instead of lat work. However after years of running this thread, most need extra side delt/lat work by the end of the program.

    rule of the inital test is to take 2 days off, run the exercises in order you will normally do them in, with a weight you can lift less that 10 times but more than 5 times (test over 10 reps are generally false). Then take 2 days off and you can start the program. The #1 rule is 72 hours rest before a heavy, you can manipulate the rest a little.
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  14. #3014
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nomats View Post
    OP how many reps can we do in each set? Is 5 sufficient?
    You start with your 10 rep max. The program works in the 8-12 rep range.
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  15. #3015
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    I was thinking about resetting on the SLDL because I'm clearly doing it wrong (my working weight is way too much...285lbs and my squat is 199) I think I'm rounding my back or not going down far enough or something. Can I just reset to like 90 pounds or something and make every day test day on SLDL until I fail, and then make that failed weight (or maybe slightly less) my new working weight for the regular progression?
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  16. #3016
    Registered User SailboatMan's Avatar
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    As a noob I have no idea what weights to start with. It says to guess a weight that you can do between 5-15 reps with, but I am too much of a noob to make that guess. Should I just spend a couple weeks experimenting before trying to start the program? I'm worried I might hurt myself if I do that though.

    Does anyone here know what weights for these exercises I should be able to do 5-15 reps with as a 140lbs male?
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  17. #3017
    Registered User RobbieGeeYYC's Avatar
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    Been doing this program for 4 weeks now, and think it's great, just what I've been looking for in a program.

    Anyways next week is my test week for cycle 1. Last Friday I buggered up my left thigh (got a bad cramp that is still hurting) while playing volleyball, so I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to pass my squats next week, if I can even do them at all, having a hard time just climbing up the stairs today. I was pretty sure that I would have nailed all my squats on Monday after killing last weeks heavy day but now I don't think that's going to happen. So do I just not do the squats until my thigh is feeling better and then resume them with my cycle 1 weight when I am able to do them again, and test all the other lifts as per the program next week?

    What's the best way to continue following the program if I can't squat next week?
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  18. #3018
    Registered User deckchairz's Avatar
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    Ok 10rm tested. All in KG
    Squat - 62.5
    Bench - 32.5
    BOR - 42.5
    OHP - 25
    SLDL - 42.5
    BBCurl - 25
    CR - 35

    Pics attached is as of a few weeks ago
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  19. #3019
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    I was thinking about resetting on the SLDL because I'm clearly doing it wrong (my working weight is way too much...285lbs and my squat is 199) I think I'm rounding my back or not going down far enough or something. Can I just reset to like 90 pounds or something and make every day test day on SLDL until I fail, and then make that failed weight (or maybe slightly less) my new working weight for the regular progression?
    Reset to 90lbs and run the auto regulated variant on the SLDL till you find your sweet spot.

    Originally Posted by SailboatMan View Post
    As a noob I have no idea what weights to start with. It says to guess a weight that you can do between 5-15 reps with, but I am too much of a noob to make that guess. Should I just spend a couple weeks experimenting before trying to start the program? I'm worried I might hurt myself if I do that though.

    Does anyone here know what weights for these exercises I should be able to do 5-15 reps with as a 140lbs male?
    Run this (full body).
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=172565211

    Its a rep goal system like auto regulated, so you do not have to "guess" your starting weights. Id just start out with the bar and just keep adding weight each session till you are in the groove.
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  20. #3020
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RobbieGeeYYC View Post
    Been doing this program for 4 weeks now, and think it's great, just what I've been looking for in a program.

    Anyways next week is my test week for cycle 1. Last Friday I buggered up my left thigh (got a bad cramp that is still hurting) while playing volleyball, so I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to pass my squats next week, if I can even do them at all, having a hard time just climbing up the stairs today. I was pretty sure that I would have nailed all my squats on Monday after killing last weeks heavy day but now I don't think that's going to happen. So do I just not do the squats until my thigh is feeling better and then resume them with my cycle 1 weight when I am able to do them again, and test all the other lifts as per the program next week?

    What's the best way to continue following the program if I can't squat next week?
    Id do the warmup sets till you are pain free. It might take a week or 2. Reset the weight back at least 10% and start again. As with the SLDL guy, you can also try the auto regulated version on the squat to get back into the groove. Use a rep goal of 24 over 2 sets with the same 90 seconds or less rest.
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  21. #3021
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Ideally if you get in your 24 rep total and add 10% your total will naturally go back down to 14 reps, in a worse case the first session might only be 12 reps due to CNS.
    I've found that as I get into higher working weights on the beginner program (2 sets), my first workout after adding 10% is really rough (10-14 reps), but I bounce back quickly.. 1 or 2 workouts and I'm in at 16 or 17 reps. CNS adapting I guess?

    I don't see this drop on Novice.. I am usually at 16 or 17 reps on day 1 with Novice.
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  22. #3022
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by briancl2 View Post
    I've found that as I get into higher working weights on the beginner program (2 sets), my first workout after adding 10% is really rough (10-14 reps), but I bounce back quickly.. 1 or 2 workouts and I'm in at 16 or 17 reps. CNS adapting I guess?

    I don't see this drop on Novice.. I am usually at 16 or 17 reps on day 1 with Novice.
    No deload on autoregulated, and you are working at or near failure, so CNS recovery is worse compared to novice. After 3 sessions with the new weight your cns should be adapted.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    No deload on autoregulated, and you are working at or near failure, so CNS recovery is worse compared to novice. After 3 sessions with the new weight your cns should be adapted.
    Yeah.. that's exactly my experience. Good to know I'm normal.
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  24. #3024
    Registered User lordnoak's Avatar
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    Hi Guys/Gals,

    I am thinking about moving on to another program. I thought I'd post my starting stats and ending stats for anyone interested. I started 3/28/2016 and would be ending on cycle 9 on 2/17/2017.

    Cycle 1:
    Squats - 85 lbs
    Bench press - 95 lbs
    Rows - 95 lbs
    Overhead press - 40 lbs
    SLDL - 30 lbs
    Curls - 40 lbs (barbell)
    Calf raises - 25 lbs

    Cycle 9:
    Squats - 185 lbs
    Bench press - 135 lbs
    Rows - 185 lbs
    Overhead press - 65 lbs
    SLDL - 95 lbs
    Curls - 35 lbs (dumbbells)
    Calf raises - 185 lbs on smith or 320 lbs on leg press machine

    I started a bulk back in mid December (had been on a long cut prior) and am up about 2 lbs since then but the weight is still hard to move. Maybe I just can't keep up since I'm 33 and tall or maybe I just am not gifted in weight lifting. I've had to switch to novice for squats/rows/bench in order to keep up the volume--just can't get to even 10 without form going to crap and running out of energy (mostly squats).

    I am probably going to do a 2-day split, an upper/lower program. Thought I would just thank nightanole for all his advice on this thread and for answering a lot of the questions I had over the last 9-10 months. I've been just about injury free and I think my form is pretty decent after all the time I put into this even if the weight isn't at intermediate levels yet.

    Good luck to everyone in this thread. This program is great for anyone wanting to be careful and methodical in their lifting. If you are worried about not doing enough, trust me it will be enough once you get through a few cycles.
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  25. #3025
    Registered User briancl2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordnoak View Post
    Hi Guys/Gals,

    I am thinking about moving on to another program. I thought I'd post my starting stats and ending stats for anyone interested. I started 3/28/2016 and would be ending on cycle 9 on 2/17/2017.

    Cycle 1:
    Squats - 85 lbs
    Bench press - 95 lbs
    Rows - 95 lbs
    Overhead press - 40 lbs
    SLDL - 30 lbs
    Curls - 40 lbs (barbell)
    Calf raises - 25 lbs

    Cycle 9:
    Squats - 185 lbs
    Bench press - 135 lbs
    Rows - 185 lbs
    Overhead press - 65 lbs
    SLDL - 95 lbs
    Curls - 35 lbs (dumbbells)
    Calf raises - 185 lbs on smith or 320 lbs on leg press machine

    I started a bulk back in mid December (had been on a long cut prior) and am up about 2 lbs since then but the weight is still hard to move. Maybe I just can't keep up since I'm 33 and tall or maybe I just am not gifted in weight lifting. I've had to switch to novice for squats/rows/bench in order to keep up the volume--just can't get to even 10 without form going to crap and running out of energy (mostly squats).

    I am probably going to do a 2-day split, an upper/lower program. Thought I would just thank nightanole for all his advice on this thread and for answering a lot of the questions I had over the last 9-10 months. I've been just about injury free and I think my form is pretty decent after all the time I put into this even if the weight isn't at intermediate levels yet.

    Good luck to everyone in this thread. This program is great for anyone wanting to be careful and methodical in their lifting. If you are worried about not doing enough, trust me it will be enough once you get through a few cycles.
    Nice work. What was your starting weight? Current weight? Height?
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  26. #3026
    Registered User lordnoak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by briancl2 View Post
    Nice work. What was your starting weight? Current weight? Height?
    Starting weight was about 240 lbs, cut down to about 207lbs and now I'm at 209lbs. Height is 6'6".
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  27. #3027
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordnoak View Post
    Starting weight was about 240 lbs, cut down to about 207lbs and now I'm at 209lbs. Height is 6'6".
    Well you lost about 15% of your body weight and doubled most of your working weights. If you add 15-20% to those number you could compare your numbers to someone who was running 3x5, aka SS or SL working weights.
    Last edited by nightanole; 01-31-2017 at 02:24 PM.
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  28. #3028
    Registered User lordnoak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Well you lost about 15% of your body weight and doubled most of your working weights. If you add 15-20% to those number you could compare your numbers to someone who was running 3x5, aka SS or SL working weights.
    Seems like everyone on here goes from around my starting numbers to 225+ lb squats and 185 lb bench press in a year pretty easily. Thanks again for all the help.
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  29. #3029
    Registered User briancl2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordnoak View Post
    Seems like everyone on here goes from around my starting numbers to 225+ lb squats and 185 lb bench press in a year pretty easily. Thanks again for all the help.
    That's about where I am now.. Body weight starting at 155lbs and now 170lbs. 6'. You could say it's been about a year, but I was kinda messing around at the beginning. I got serious in April.
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  30. #3030
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    Weightlifting belt for Squats and Deadlifts?

    Hi,

    I have been doing this workout program for 2 cycles now, beginning my third. My stats so far are as follows:

    I am 5 foot 9 and fluctuate between 155 and 160lbs depending on the day.

    Cycle 1 (after a lot of experimenting with weights)
    Squats - 95lbs
    Bench Press - 95lbs
    BOR - 95lbs
    Overhead Press - 40lbs
    Stiff Leg Deadlift - 100lbs
    Curls - 40lbs

    Cycle 3
    Squats - 105lbs
    Bench Press - 95lbs (still can't do 12 reps without fail so I'm not increasing weight until I do)
    BOR - 105lbs
    Overhead Press - 65lbs
    Stiff Leg Deadlift - 135lbs
    Curls - 50lbs (still can't do 12 reps without fail so I'm not increasing weight until I do)

    I am really enjoying this workout program, it's the first time I've ever worked out this consistently ever in my entire life and I'm 32 years old. I have seen a huge difference when I play basketball already (I play twice a week).

    I have my first ever gym membership ever, and I go to one that has a steam room and cold plunge and use both of them after every workout and I feel like it helps with my recovery.

    I use protein shakes daily and only take Creatine after a workout, however it is hard for me to intake 155g of protein per day but I try to come as close as possible usually in the 80-100g range.

    So the only few issues I'm having so far and the reason why i'm making my first ever post is because I'm starting to get lower back pain and I know that I am capable of Squatting heavier weight but my form is not all that great and my lower back hurts so much that it is effecting me when I play basketball, so I lightened my weights to where I don't feel pain.

    However, I'm debating on getting one of those "weightlifting belts" i see everyone wearing in the gym. But i'm worried that the amount of weight i'm doing that it would make no sense to even get? Most of the people using the belt are squatting a lot more than me, even girls

    Also I find that after I'm done my workout that I am not completely spent, even though I am struggling on my last rep on every exercise I do and I'm sweating buckets I feel like I can do a third set of Overhead presses or Curls of Stiff leg Deadlifts (especially on weeks that require 8-10reps only) and on some occassions I do because I'm just so amped and motivated.

    It takes a lot out of me to say to myself "this is a marathon not a sprint" and just do the required workouts and leave the gym. Is it okay to do more sets for exercises like Curls, Deadlifts, and OPresses when it's on a 8-10 rep week?

    Thank you,
    Joe
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