AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[enr33]

optimum
dymatize elite
truenutrition
myprotein

creatine works the first year
casein is a waste if its more than regular protein
You could also sup with 6-10g of Essential Amino Acid blend.
BCAA's only help if your diet is really really bad.

Do you think I should get some ON Casein today? Would it be worth it?

[nightanole]

Do you think I should get some ON Casein today? Would it be worth it?

Milk is 80% casein and 20% whey. One is not better than the other. Casein is not some magic slow release protein before bed, that is marketing hype. Id only by casein if it was withing 10% of the price of whey.

[Silverburst]

As a re-starter I've been on the program for about 1.5 months now. At first I was a bit skeptical about how this program was set up, and choices of exercises. But now I jumped into the 2nd cycle and added 10% weight it is surprising how I now can manage 8reps with weights I was biting my teeth before. Also I'm seeing effect in parts of my body I hadn't seen before with splits because I'm training my complete body now. Really nice ! At first it is quite some thinking and getting set up but after a few weeks you get the hang of it. Great overall reboot program! Glad people here advised it to me !

[DrakHarr]

Do you think I should get some ON Casein today? Would it be worth it?

Basically all the products you listed are unneeded. Protein powder in general is okay if you're in a cut and having trouble hitting your protein goals, but most of the rest is pretty much trash.
Creatine I've heard very mixed things about, and that's the BEST I've heard about supplements - most are overwhelmingly negative. So if you buy any of it (besides whey protein) I'd go for that.

It is highly doubtful any of those products are going to help with workouts.

Sleep
Food intake
Workout program


Supplements are a very minor part of results. I do have a protein powder, but I only have it once or twice a week at most, whenever I ate junky and needed to eat basically straight protein (even then, I could just heat up a cod fillet, 1g fat, 0g carb, 25g protein).

[OryxOryx]

Everything looks good, but im concerned about your lats. This has happened several times before with other allpro lifters. Your BOR and lat pull is severely lagging behind your bench. Im guessing you cant even do a pullup, yet have almost a 1 plate working weight bench.

The most recommended BOR accessory is doing "hands off between reps" penlay rows with a weight you can only do 1-3 times, you might gain 1 rep a cycle, for you that is probably around bw.
You may also look into a hammer grip assisted chinup for high reps (15-30reps).

You need to get that Row up to 115-125 or you will start to notice some upper back compromises in the SLDL and squat. Look into some videos etc on how to "lock down your chest" with your lats.
If you havent already, switch the lat pulldown to palms facing you grip.
You may also want to start doing some band face pulls.

SO perfect numbers would have your row around 115-125, your squat above your SLDL, and your SLDL having a huge rom where the bar is well below mid shim and you have to stand on a plate form to keep the weights from hitting the floor between reps.

PS: id drop the skullcrushers since that is an assistance for your bench, which is already waaaay over powered. Pick somethings that will bring up your squat and row. Hell high foot farmer carries/walks might help both lifts if it is indeed an upper back/core weakness problem that is holding them back..

Thanks for the info, as always.

One thing about my row... I'm doing it with my back much closer to parallel to the ground than a 45deg BOR (but the weight still does not touch the ground between reps). So I don't actually know what my numbers would look like with a 45 degree BOR.

I'll switch the lat pulldowns like you mentioned.

I have a tad under an hour of gym time on weekdays (there are no lights in the gym so it has to be after sun comes up but before work), so Saturday is the only day I can really spend an unlimited amount of time in the gym. What if I did this:

Tu, Th, Sa:
-Squat
-Bench
-BOR (back closer to parallel than 45deg)
-OHP
-SLDL
-Lat Pull
-Barbell Curl
-Skulls? Or drop these?

Saturday only:
-Calf raise
-Farmer walk (I can *only* do this with 2 100-pound dumbells as these are the only dumbells available)
-Band-assisted chinups
-penlays "hands off between reps"

As for face-pulls... I don't have the equipment for cable facepulls... and for band face-pulls... I just have some random bands and I think they are pretty weak.

I live in the middle of nowhere outside of the US, and shipping stuff here is *EXPENSIVE*, so I need to just design workouts around the eqipment I have (barbells, 2 100-pound dumbells, lat pull cable, leg curl cable, flat bench, squat rack, pullup bar, some random weak bands I have)

[nightanole]

Thanks for the info, as always.

One thing about my row... I'm doing it with my back much closer to parallel to the ground than a 45deg BOR (but the weight still does not touch the ground between reps). So I don't actually know what my numbers would look like with a 45 degree BOR.

I'll switch the lat pulldowns like you mentioned.

I have a tad under an hour of gym time on weekdays (there are no lights in the gym so it has to be after sun comes up but before work), so Saturday is the only day I can really spend an unlimited amount of time in the gym. What if I did this:

Tu, Th, Sa:
-Squat
-Bench
-BOR (back closer to parallel than 45deg)
-OHP
-SLDL
-Lat Pull
-Barbell Curl
-Skulls? Or drop these?

Saturday only:
-Calf raise
-Farmer walk (I can *only* do this with 2 100-pound dumbells as these are the only dumbells available)
-Band-assisted chinups
-penlays "hands off between reps"

As for face-pulls... I don't have the equipment for cable facepulls... and for band face-pulls... I just have some random bands and I think they are pretty weak.

I live in the middle of nowhere outside of the US, and shipping stuff here is *EXPENSIVE*, so I need to just design workouts around the eqipment I have (barbells, 2 100-pound dumbells, lat pull cable, leg curl cable, flat bench, squat rack, pullup bar, some random weak bands I have)

BOW will depend on anatomy on how far over you bend, if its comfortable stick with it.
Id drop skulls unless your OHP becomes less than 55% of your bench.
Saturday assist day looks good
Face pulls are meant to be very light (5-10lbs), you might even be able to do them laying face down on a bench with some dumb bells.

[enr33]

It doesnt matter if you take 10 days off for a 10 rep test.
Optimal. You failed test day, you stopped half way through, and odds are missed reps on several of the first lifts. That right there threw off test week, the only hope of saving it might have been to test again in 48 hours. That window has passed. So now id just go with your plan of doing the 10 rep test on friday, and then starting fresh on 8 reps monday.

Hey brah does this look like the right format for the test day you suggest I give another shot at tomorrow (with new weight on exercises I passed/am certain about)?

Squat: 45x10 75x10 145x10 (up from 130lbs all is good on this excercise)
Bench: 45x10 50x10 100x10 (nothing changed I still cant complete the 2nd heavy set entirely)
Bent Over Row: 45x10 55x10 110x10 (same as bench, except i sometimes cant even complete the first set entirely with good form)
Standing Millitary Press: 60x10 (im gonna be honest with myself and stay at 60 for another cycle cause my form was weak Cycle 1 and sometimes I didnt make all the reps)
Stiff Legged Deadlift: 125x10 (up from 110lbs, form is perfect)
Barbell Curl: 45x10 (up from 40lbs)
Calf Raises: 70x10 (up from 50lbs)

On a few of the excerises it came out in 1 or 2lbs so I round it up to nearest 5lb weight (ie 142 lbs became 145lbs)

I hope Im doing the right things brah Im getting really tired of being so insecure about my body....

Also my gym doesnt have a 45lb barbell (the kind with weights on both sides) so what would be the next best option?
There are a few barbells just laying around usually but I cant tell if they 15, 20 or how many lbs without any plates...

[nightanole]

Hey brah does this look like the right format for the test day you suggest I give another shot at tomorrow (with new weight on exercises I passed/am certain about)?

Squat: 45x10 75x10 145x10 (up from 130lbs all is good on this excercise)
Bench: 45x10 50x10 100x10 (nothing changed I still cant complete the 2nd heavy set entirely)
Bent Over Row: 45x10 55x10 110x10 (same as bench, except i sometimes cant even complete the first set entirely with good form)
Standing Millitary Press: 60x10 (im gonna be honest with myself and stay at 60 for another cycle cause my form was weak Cycle 1 and sometimes I didnt make all the reps)
Stiff Legged Deadlift: 125x10 (up from 110lbs, form is perfect)
Barbell Curl: 45x10 (up from 40lbs)
Calf Raises: 70x10 (up from 50lbs)

On a few of the excerises it came out in 1 or 2lbs so I round it up to nearest 5lb weight (ie 142 lbs became 145lbs)

I hope Im doing the right things brah Im getting really tired of being so insecure about my body....

Also my gym doesnt have a 45lb barbell (the kind with weights on both sides) so what would be the next best option?
There are a few barbells just laying around usually but I cant tell if they 15, 20 or how many lbs without any plates...

Your row you could stand to just keep it at 100-105 since its still around your bench.

Not sure about the barbell question. All gym olympic 7ft bars are 45lbs with no weights. If its a barbell with weights stuck to it, the markings should be the total weight if you picked the whole thing up. So if it says 55lbs on both sides, its 55lbs total with the bar.

[enr33]

Your row you could stand to just keep it at 100-105 since its still around your bench.

Not sure about the barbell question. All gym olympic 7ft bars are 45lbs with no weights. If its a barbell with weights stuck to it, the markings should be the total weight if you picked the whole thing up. So if it says 55lbs on both sides, its 55lbs total with the bar.

Alright thanks brah. For the test day today Im only supposed to do 1 work set and any applicable warm up sets right?

[nightanole]

Alright thanks brah. For the test day today Im only supposed to do 1 work set and any applicable warm up sets right?

correct. That gives you 2 weeks to work up the endurance to do 2 set of 10.

[tbiv21]

I want to give a little background to help with my concerns. I completed two cycles, finishing my second cycle in August. I took some time off after starting dental school because I was getting overwhelmed. I've since managed my time better to have time for my workouts. I tried to rapidly get my strength back by increasing a rep each workout and I also played basketball twice a week until I injured my knee playing basketball that was probably from pushing myself too much. I am taking a break from basketball and I am now on my 2nd week after taking a few weeks off because of my knee and am following the standard program. Current stats: 165 lbs, 5'10", around 15% bf.
Squat: 160 (I was at 175)
Bench: 145
Row: 105
OHP: 65
SLDL: 145
Pull Down: 150 (I do these like chin ups and want to just do bw chin ups and then weighted chin ups once I progress a little more)
Calf Raises: 160 added to the smith machine that I do using a block (I also do these at a higher rep range 12-16)
I switched the chin up type exercise for curls because I wanted a more compound exercise. I'm mostly concerned that my OHP is 45% of my bench weight. What can I do to improve that? I'm not sure if it is my form or what the problem is since I've watched videos to work on my form. Also I am on a cut right now just trying to get around 10% before I start to bulk. I was also cutting during my first two cycles and added 10% each time. I'm also on a keto diet (mostly because I feel I have more overall energy during the day and my workouts have not been effected.) Should I add an accessory exercise next cycle to try and help the imbalance or is that too much during a cut?

[nightanole]

I want to give a little background to help with my concerns. I completed two cycles, finishing my second cycle in August. I took some time off after starting dental school because I was getting overwhelmed. I've since managed my time better to have time for my workouts. I tried to rapidly get my strength back by increasing a rep each workout and I also played basketball twice a week until I injured my knee playing basketball that was probably from pushing myself too much. I am taking a break from basketball and I am now on my 2nd week after taking a few weeks off because of my knee and am following the standard program. Current stats: 165 lbs, 5'10", around 15% bf.
Squat: 160 (I was at 175)
Bench: 145
Row: 105
OHP: 65
SLDL: 145
Pull Down: 150 (I do these like chin ups and want to just do bw chin ups and then weighted chin ups once I progress a little more)
Calf Raises: 160 added to the smith machine that I do using a block (I also do these at a higher rep range 12-16)
I switched the chin up type exercise for curls because I wanted a more compound exercise. I'm mostly concerned that my OHP is 45% of my bench weight. What can I do to improve that? I'm not sure if it is my form or what the problem is since I've watched videos to work on my form. Also I am on a cut right now just trying to get around 10% before I start to bulk. I was also cutting during my first two cycles and added 10% each time. I'm also on a keto diet (mostly because I feel I have more overall energy during the day and my workouts have not been effected.) Should I add an accessory exercise next cycle to try and help the imbalance or is that too much during a cut?

IM wondering if the chinups is causing too much back fatigue and that is what is causing the the OHP to fail. I know i am 5% weaker in the OHP if i select chinups (bare in mind i also try to keep my quads parallel to the floor for core work) for my pull instead of the deadlift. You heard that correct, the chinup fatigues me more for the OHP than the traditional deadlift.

The only other consideration is that your Bench is OP because of the way you do it. My bench has a 18" rom (with a <700mm grip), its only about 6" shorter than my OHP. On the other hand if i did the bench power lifting style with index fingers at the 810mm rings and nice chest pump, i could reduce my rom to 10-12 inches and easily make it more than double my OHP.

I would try benching/OHP with a grip that is within 6" of each other, and see if you get that big of a variance. Just pick a grip that has the elbow directly under the wrist at the bottom(chest) of the movements.

[ultimaforsan]

Hello nightanole,

I'm going on vacation for 3 weeks in Thailand. I will be in hostels that probably don't have gyms and if they do, the gyms are probably ****ty. Time might be an issue as well. Is there anything I can do with no weights in my room? When I will be there, I'm supposed to begin the fourth cycle of all pro on the first week of vacation.

If I pause the program and lift whenever I can during that trip would it hurt my progression when I come back?

Thanks

[RonXdude]

Hello nightanole,

I'm going on vacation for 3 weeks in Thailand. I will be in hostels that probably don't have gyms and if they do, the gyms are probably ****ty. Time might be an issue as well. Is there anything I can do with no weights in my room? When I will be there, I'm supposed to begin the fourth cycle of all pro on the first week of vacation.

If I pause the program and lift whenever I can during that trip would it hurt my progression when I come back?

Thanks

You may not like my advise, but I went Thailand last month thinking the same things as you. I took 20 packs of protein so I can take them over 2 weeks. Guess how many I took? 4.

Seriously seriously go enjoy your vacation. Don't eat crap, thai food can be good for health, eat the right stuff. You are going to be doing some good cardio if you do the same things I did - hiking etc. My opinion will be don't worry about anything more than that. Can you imagine yourself getting on the floor doing press ups in a hostel? JUST ENJOY YOURSELF!!

You will come back happy and motivated for not letting it take over your holiday.

[nightanole]

Hello nightanole,

I'm going on vacation for 3 weeks in Thailand. I will be in hostels that probably don't have gyms and if they do, the gyms are probably ****ty. Time might be an issue as well. Is there anything I can do with no weights in my room? When I will be there, I'm supposed to begin the fourth cycle of all pro on the first week of vacation.

If I pause the program and lift whenever I can during that trip would it hurt my progression when I come back?

Thanks

I think you will have to reset your weights back about 5%, but you will be able to bump next cycle 15%. About the only thing you can do is ROM warmups wiht body weight so muscles dont tighten up, and you could do some hill climbs, pistol squats, and maybe some braced chinups/pushup (one hand stretched out on a foot stool for example). Nutrition shouldnt be a problem since you will not be taxing your recovery. It takes months to lose a pound of muscle.

[JDMbarista]

So I know the rule about taking at least two days off before your heavy day, but there are days when I kind of have to cut it closer to my heavy day, ie. Saturday(light)/Monday(heavy). What is recommended I do in this case?

[DrakHarr]

So I know the rule about taking at least two days off before your heavy day, but there are days when I kind of have to cut it closer to my heavy day, ie. Saturday(light)/Monday(heavy). What is recommended I do in this case?

If you're in an early cycle, low rep weeks, or bulking it probably won't matter much. But if you're cutting, in a later cycle, and doing a 10 11 or 12 rep week when you try it on one day... good luck is all I can say. If all of those are true you'll probably fail heavy day.

Edit: Why don't you just make Tuesday your heavy day for that week?

[DopeJava]

Do I really have to add weights this slowly? And use lower weights twice the week knowing that I can lift more?
The progression is way too slow for me to start, so maybe I can just start with 2x8 and next week when I get to 2x12 add weight in the next workout

[JDMbarista]

If you're in an early cycle, low rep weeks, or bulking it probably won't matter much. But if you're cutting, in a later cycle, and doing a 10 11 or 12 rep week when you try it on one day... good luck is all I can say. If all of those are true you'll probably fail heavy day.

Edit: Why don't you just make Tuesday your heavy day for that week?

I'm on week 1 of a new cycle. I guess I can switch up the days but I just dislike a set schedule.

[jeffersonranada]

Hello everyone, I'm on my 1st cycle week 2, I've been doing every exercise with excellent form but I suck on one of the major lifts, the bench press. Right now, my bench is only 65 pounds, it's kind of embarrassing because it's really low. My problem with bench is that everyone here in bodybuilding forum tells that when I bench I should be retracting my shoulder blades, but I can't seem to do that properly. After unracking the weight, I have no problem with lowering the bar into my chest, around my nipple area but when pushing the bar back up, the retraction is gone. One time i managed to keep the retraction even when pushing the bar up but I can only feel it in my arms, what's wrong with it? Am I exaggerating the retraction when I did this? I'd like to ask experienced lifters regarding this, what do you do before you lie down on the bench? ? What do you do before you unrack the weight ? What do you think when moving the bar too keep the mind muscle connection to your chest?

[nightanole]

Do I really have to add weights this slowly? And use lower weights twice the week knowing that I can lift more?
The progression is way too slow for me to start, so maybe I can just start with 2x8 and next week when I get to 2x12 add weight in the next workout

You do realize the 10% bump is the min right, not the max? A lot of people can double their squat weight in 3 cycles.

Your other option is to try out the auto regulated version:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

[nightanole]

Hello everyone, I'm on my 1st cycle week 2, I've been doing every exercise with excellent form but I suck on one of the major lifts, the bench press. Right now, my bench is only 65 pounds, it's kind of embarrassing because it's really low. My problem with bench is that everyone here in bodybuilding forum tells that when I bench I should be retracting my shoulder blades, but I can't seem to do that properly. After unracking the weight, I have no problem with lowering the bar into my chest, around my nipple area but when pushing the bar back up, the retraction is gone. One time i managed to keep the retraction even when pushing the bar up but I can only feel it in my arms, what's wrong with it? Am I exaggerating the retraction when I did this? I'd like to ask experienced lifters regarding this, what do you do before you lie down on the bench? ? What do you do before you unrack the weight ? What do you think when moving the bar too keep the mind muscle connection to your chest?

At the bottom of the lift everything needs to be wound up like spring, massive amout of tension from bringing the wieght down. The farther the muscles are stretched, the more powerful they can push off the chest. When your shoulder blades loose when you push all that tension just went bye bye. When your shoulders start moving and coming off the back, say hello to snap city once you get to body weight working weight.

Their is like a billion you tube videos on squats and bench, and they all using the same shoulder blade technique.

I use the twist/screw style for my bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS8yUgRMiy4

[OryxOryx]

So for the Saturday assistance work I have planned:

-Band-assist chinups
-"hands off between reps" penlay rows
-dumbell farmer walks
-band face-pulls

what is the recommended sets and reps, and when do I add more weight to these?

[Marwan4449]

Hey man I just passed my first cycle and I had this uncomfort feeling in my left shoulder plade ( it hurts a little) last week after workout but after 2 days of rest its gone and today after my bench press it started to come back and by the end of the workout it started again as last week. First it doesnt hurt I just feel somthing in my left plade when I try to pinch it or rotate my shoulder
Could it be because I had 2 heavy days last week because I didn't have time
And should I rest for the week and start the new sycle next week

[nightanole]

So for the Saturday assistance work I have planned:

-Band-assist chinups
-"hands off between reps" penlay rows
-dumbell farmer walks
-band face-pulls

what is the recommended sets and reps, and when do I add more weight to these?

Accessory work is generally higher reps than allpro, and normally you dont need a progression pattern. Chinups/face pulls id shoot for 30-40 over 2-3 sets. Penlay rows at 90%+ of your 1rm for 1 set, 10-20 seconds between reps (rest pause style). Farmer walks you want 20-25m before your hands(or something else) gives out. Rest any amount of time and do it again for 1 more set. You could even do a set at the beginning and end of the accessory workout.

Hey man I just passed my first cycle and I had this uncomfort feeling in my left shoulder plade ( it hurts a little) last week after workout but after 2 days of rest its gone and today after my bench press it started to come back and by the end of the workout it started again as last week. First it doesnt hurt I just feel somthing in my left plade when I try to pinch it or rotate my shoulder
Could it be because I had 2 heavy days last week because I didn't have time
And should I rest for the week and start the new sycle next week

Im pretty sure your shoulder socket is moving in the bench press. This is causing some back muscles to get pinched during the lift when the bones move. I can only describe it as back carpel tunnel. Id switch to a narrower grip next cycle til you figure out what is wrong with the movement. It could be you are pushing straight up(vs elliptical back to directly over the shoulder socket), or that you are not hitting low enough on the chest.

[joshaldo]

I was getting awesome progress on this routine but in the last few weeks have had a fair bit go on in my personal life so stopped lifting. I am wanting to get back into it, what should I start with after three weeks off

[nightanole]

I was getting awesome progress on this routine but in the last few weeks have had a fair bit go on in my personal life so stopped lifting. I am wanting to get back into it, what should I start with after three weeks off

5-10% lighter, and expect a 15-20% bump at the end of the cycle. You detrain pretty quick, buy you also come back pretty quick.

[Marwan4449]

Im pretty sure your shoulder socket is moving in the bench press. This is causing some back muscles to get pinched during the lift when the bones move. I can only describe it as back carpel tunnel. Id switch to a narrower grip next cycle til you figure out what is wrong with the movement. It could be you are pushing straight up(vs elliptical back to directly over the shoulder socket), or that you are not hitting low enough on the chest.[/QUOTE]
You think its better to skip the mid and light day and rest till it heal better or it wont affect it that much
I think too that my grip is wide a little even though my hands are on the ring in the bar

[nightanole]

Im pretty sure your shoulder socket is moving in the bench press. This is causing some back muscles to get pinched during the lift when the bones move. I can only describe it as back carpel tunnel. Id switch to a narrower grip next cycle til you figure out what is wrong with the movement. It could be you are pushing straight up(vs elliptical back to directly over the shoulder socket), or that you are not hitting low enough on the chest.

You think its better to skip the mid and light day and rest till it heal better or it wont affect it that much
I think too that my grip is wide a little even though my hands are on the ring in the bar[/QUOTE]

Index fingers on rings is max legal grip(810mm rings, some oly bar rings are alot wider 36" etc) , most dont train with that daily. I keep my pinkies an inch inside the rings and that is a neutral grip for me.

If you want you can just do warmups on the 2 days you want to skip, i would not just "rest" unless the connecting tissue is inflamed, its always better to have a muscle pull heal in motion.

[DrBirkin62]

Hey, going to be beginning this program hopefully this week when my power rack shows up.

Quick question, I'm reading two conflicting reports.

The FAQ says to do 2 warm ups for the first three exercises, and then the WIKI says it's recommended you do warm ups for ALL the exercises, and each exercises gets two work sets.

Which is actually recommended? 4 sets for all or 4 for the first 3 only?