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  1. #5551
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Uhhhhhhh

    ICF 5x5 has a 33% burnout rate within 90 days just because some genetically just cant keep up with it even with perfect diet and recovery.


    Allpro is a fatigue based program so it looks kinda weird and too easy. Anyway once the weights are dialed in, medium day will require the most effort, since you will not be recovered from heavy day. On a "normal" program you are adding a rep or 5lbs 3 days a week. On allpro you start out with weight so heavy that you cant do 3 heavies a week let alone add a rep or weight. So heavy day pre fatigues you for medium day, and light day is a mini deload for joints/connetive tissue since allpro does not have a deload protocol.

    And its only slow progression if you start light and only bump 10%. Most dont read the program and assume they should bump 10%. 10% is the min, plenty of people will start light on the squat and double the working weight in 3-4 cycles. However on ANY routine, 10% bumps after 6 months is considered a pipe dream. Even on 3x5 and 5x5 programs, you are adding 30lbs to your bench each month, but deloading 15-20lbs (10%) every 4-6 weeks, so the "real" progression is still less than 10%.
    Thanks for the reply.
    What do you think about all pros butchered edition? İt has more aggresive progression . Can i get results with that too ?
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  2. #5552
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    Are RDL's an acceptable substitute for SLDL's? For whatever reason, I find RDL's more comfortable to perform.
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  3. #5553
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    Originally Posted by mrduckfeet View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    What do you think about all pros butchered edition? İt has more aggresive progression . Can i get results with that too ?
    Butchered is nick named the bulking edition, so if you are bulking you can try it.
    Else you can also try auto regulated:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1376160513
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  4. #5554
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by daveminnich View Post
    Are RDL's an acceptable substitute for SLDL's? For whatever reason, I find RDL's more comfortable to perform.
    Depends. The point of the SLDL is to fully extend the hamstrings.

    If you define the RDL as just a top down standard form dead lift meant to teach how to load the hamstrings, then no its not a good sub. Its just a ecentrically trained deadlift. However there are many definitions of the RDL, if you can find a form the max stretches the hams, it may work.
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  5. #5555
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    Few questions,

    1. Should I find my 10 rep max on week 1 day 1? Or should I find it first before starting the program?
    2. If I finish week 5 successfully on all exercises but 2, do I increase de weight by 10% on all of them or just the ones that I finished?
    3. Can I do any form of bench press (incline,decline,flat)?
    4. Can I also do any form of calf raises? Standing/sitting?
    5. Can I be sitting with the overhead barbell press?
    6. What size/weight barbell should I use? Can I use lets say olympic for all but the overhead press and use a smaller one for that exercise?
    7. Any chance of smith machine substitute for squat, bench press, barbell press (in case of gym being full)?
    8. If I am currently cutting, should I be aiming to increment weights every 5 weeks? If not, do I just repeat untill I can bulk?
    9. On my warm up sets, do I still do the reps mentioned or can I do more?
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  6. #5556
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    Originally Posted by KrisFromChile View Post
    Few questions,

    1. Should I find my 10 rep max on week 1 day 1? Or should I find it first before starting the program?
    2. If I finish week 5 successfully on all exercises but 2, do I increase de weight by 10% on all of them or just the ones that I finished?
    3. Can I do any form of bench press (incline,decline,flat)?
    4. Can I also do any form of calf raises? Standing/sitting?
    5. Can I be sitting with the overhead barbell press?
    6. What size/weight barbell should I use? Can I use lets say olympic for all but the overhead press and use a smaller one for that exercise?
    7. Any chance of smith machine substitute for squat, bench press, barbell press (in case of gym being full)?
    8. If I am currently cutting, should I be aiming to increment weights every 5 weeks? If not, do I just repeat untill I can bulk?
    9. On my warm up sets, do I still do the reps mentioned or can I do more?
    You find your 10 rep maxes (in the order you will be doing the program) then take 72 hours rest or more, and start the program.
    You bump the exercises you passed at least 10%(10% is the min) and repeat the next cycle with the 2 weights you failed at.
    Flat or decline is recommended, pick one and stick to it.
    calf raises anything goes as long as its full extension.
    If you need to do the OHP seated, its recomended to switch to the dumb bell arnold press.
    Yes you can use olympic for any exercise you can use 55lbs working weight on, so heavy is 55, medium is 50, and light is just the bar. If you have a lighter bar (i have an aluminum 5kg olympic bar) or a "standard" set you can use that till you get to 55lbs.
    Smith can be used for straight bar path lifts only, so that is only the squat and OHP.
    If your doing a deep cut you aim to never miss reps on 10 rep week. That shows you are not cutting too deep and losing performance. You should be able to progress at least every other cycle till you get to 13%, then its either maintain or bulk.
    Generally you just do 2 sets of 10 the whole cycle every workout, the first set can just be the bar or unloaded (broom handle or plastic pipe) and the second set 2/3-3/4 your light day working weight. The warmups are to help you practice the lift since odds are this is the first time you stretched out your limbs that far on that day. Warmups should only be 5-10min of the entire workout.
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  7. #5557
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    Hey gyus,
    so came back from heavy day and I did my messures with barbell and EZ barbell (won't use it again,red that straight barbell is slightly better)
    so my current progress is below
    31kg squat
    39kg bench
    31kg row
    24kg OHP
    31kg SLDL still working on proper form cause everytime I check side mirror my lover back is just little bend
    19kg curl
    45kg seated calf raises

    Would you please check it if its proggressing right?
    also my other question every day I'm struggling to get my carbs in.
    Protein/fat no problem but cabrs are like 100g under minimum
    I changed diet from bulking to cut so I adjusted from 3150kcal to 2700 (103protein/106fat/341 carbs) and will be lowering this number every week by 100kcal.
    Any ideas for ''good'' carb food?I dont mind any taste cause I can get with pretty every food.
    Currently on 80.25kg 22%+- BF
    Thank you kindly!
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  8. #5558
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jro91 View Post
    Hey gyus,
    so came back from heavy day and I did my messures with barbell and EZ barbell (won't use it again,red that straight barbell is slightly better)
    so my current progress is below
    31kg squat
    39kg bench
    31kg row
    24kg OHP
    31kg SLDL still working on proper form cause everytime I check side mirror my lover back is just little bend
    19kg curl
    45kg seated calf raises

    Would you please check it if its proggressing right?
    also my other question every day I'm struggling to get my carbs in.
    Protein/fat no problem but cabrs are like 100g under minimum
    I changed diet from bulking to cut so I adjusted from 3150kcal to 2700 (103protein/106fat/341 carbs) and will be lowering this number every week by 100kcal.
    Any ideas for ''good'' carb food?I dont mind any taste cause I can get with pretty every food.
    Currently on 80.25kg 22%+- BF
    Thank you kindly!
    Not sure what you mean by progressing. If you are talking about imbalances, everyone will have them when they first start, rock climbers might be pulling 2x what they bench.

    The startin diet is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs, so you are well within that range. As for good carbs, i normally go with oatmeal or rice, both are basically a carb pill with a protein shell, rice is easier for people who are hard gainers and oats are better for "hungry" people that need more fiber. Both can be bought in powder form and be taken like a protein shake. I can make a 700+ calorie lunch with 2 scoops of whey and 3 scoops of powdered oats.

    There are no "bad" carbs. It doesnt matter if they are complex or simple carbs, both will be broken down to the same element. It doesnt matter if they are low or high glycemic index, that doesnt even affect diabetics. Low or high fiber only matters depending on the rest of your diet, if you eat a salad every meal, you dont want/need a high fiber carb. Carbs are just building blocks, they are going to; be converted to non essential amino acids, burned off has heat, used as energy, or used to make hormones. You need to get your essential fatty and amino acids from your fat/protein profile, but the rest can be made with carbs.
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  9. #5559
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Not sure what you mean by progressing. If you are talking about imbalances, everyone will have them when they first start, rock climbers might be pulling 2x what they bench.

    The startin diet is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs, so you are well within that range. As for good carbs, i normally go with oatmeal or rice, both are basically a carb pill with a protein shell, rice is easier for people who are hard gainers and oats are better for "hungry" people that need more fiber. Both can be bought in powder form and be taken like a protein shake. I can make a 700+ calorie lunch with 2 scoops of whey and 3 scoops of powdered oats.

    There are no "bad" carbs. It doesnt matter if they are complex or simple carbs, both will be broken down to the same element. It doesnt matter if they are low or high glycemic index, that doesnt even affect diabetics. Low or high fiber only matters depending on the rest of your diet, if you eat a salad every meal, you dont want/need a high fiber carb. Carbs are just building blocks, they are going to; be converted to non essential amino acids, burned off has heat, used as energy, or used to make hormones. You need to get your essential fatty and amino acids from your fat/protein profile, but the rest can be made with carbs.
    Oh ok sounds fair for me.
    Mainly eating 3-4 meals.basicly rice with ground beef or chicken breasts maybe I'll try to get in more rice or potatoes per one meal
    Also trying to stay away from breakfast till 9-10 am because of loosing fat.I mainly get up at 5am and prep all my food.
    Just one more question this time.I'm doing night shift (1-2 per week) is it good to have training in the morning before night shift (desk job)?I ussualy going to sleep for few hour after lunch .
    Or should I wait till I can provide full 8 hours of sleep no matter what?
    Thanks!
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  10. #5560
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    Originally Posted by Jro91 View Post
    Oh ok sounds fair for me.
    Mainly eating 3-4 meals.basicly rice with ground beef or chicken breasts maybe I'll try to get in more rice or potatoes per one meal
    Also trying to stay away from breakfast till 9-10 am because of loosing fat.I mainly get up at 5am and prep all my food.
    Just one more question this time.I'm doing night shift (1-2 per week) is it good to have training in the morning before night shift (desk job)?I ussualy going to sleep for few hour after lunch .
    Or should I wait till I can provide full 8 hours of sleep no matter what?
    Thanks!
    72 hours rest before a heavy, and optimal is 48 hours rest before a medium or light. It really doesnt matter when you workout as long as its done before the days cardio/sports session and you have full glycogen stores from the meal you ate 8-12 hours before. About the only bad sched would be eat dinner, skip breakfast/lunch, then "carb up" 45-60min before the workout. Boosting blood glucose will help cardio, but its not going to do anything for anaerobic weight lifting.
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  11. #5561
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    ^^

    Every time I see your avatar photo, it looks like you have horns. =\
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  12. #5562
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    Originally Posted by LactoseTolerant View Post
    ^^

    Every time I see your avatar photo, it looks like you have horns. =\
    Id be happy if i had hair :|
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  13. #5563
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    72 hours rest before a heavy, and optimal is 48 hours rest before a medium or light. It really doesnt matter when you workout as long as its done before the days cardio/sports session and you have full glycogen stores from the meal you ate 8-12 hours before. About the only bad sched would be eat dinner, skip breakfast/lunch, then "carb up" 45-60min before the workout. Boosting blood glucose will help cardio, but its not going to do anything for anaerobic weight lifting.
    noted. I'll keep it in my mind!
    as always many thanks for helping n00bs out!
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  14. #5564
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    hey i viewed your no cheat abs and reviewed how to do them. can you post a workout plan for these. like how often, weight, distance vs amount in terms of the farmers. any type of variations. something that is as on point as the first page information.
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  15. #5565
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    Originally Posted by strangelove View Post
    hey i viewed your no cheat abs and reviewed how to do them. can you post a workout plan for these. like how often, weight, distance vs amount in terms of the farmers. any type of variations. something that is as on point as the first page information.
    OP is looking like a train wreck at this point

    Anyway its normally 2-3 combined sets( so 1 of each of any of the exercises or 3 of any 1 exercise) done directly after the workout, or on off days if your recovery is on point.

    for abs
    For my "cant cheat" list:
    Ab wheel roll outs or walkouts
    Hanging leg raises
    high foot farmer walks/carries
    landmine 180's

    And believe it or not, but chinups hit alot of the lower abs that the core program does not.

    Any exercise that you need to hold your feet down to perform, is a no no. You end up just just tightening the abs and the hip flexors do all the work.

    You are looking for a weight you can do 20-30 reps, or for farmer carries, 20m-30m, or for timed holds, 30-60 seconds. "high foot" is defined as bringing the ankle to knee level, these will use a much lower weight vs the shuffle style. As for which to pick, that is up to you.

    Ab wheel roll outs teaches and re-enforces learning to keep a neutral back so your lower back doesnt hyper-extend and wear out.
    Hanging leg raises hit the lower abs that the core program does not, and you will learn real quick the next day. These also help with atp (anterior pelvic tilt)
    high foot farmer carries handles grip work and adds conditioning along with adding non symmetrical stress to the core.
    landmine 180's/ Russian twists add some delt and groin work along with some non symmetrical stress.
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    do you build up from these ab exercises? is it more important to add weight or reps/time. would doing 2 every other day how would you group them. i would only be able to do the hanging legs, landmines, and chinups at the gym after work unless there is an alternative
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    Originally Posted by strangelove View Post
    do you build up from these ab exercises? is it more important to add weight or reps/time. would doing 2 every other day how would you group them. i would only be able to do the hanging legs, landmines, and chinups at the gym after work unless there is an alternative
    Again, pick a weight that keeps you in the 20-30 rep range, if you go over or under add or subtract weight. The same applies if you are going for distance or time. What ever 2-3 sets or exercises you choose, stick with them for at least a cycle. You are only working out 1.5-2.0 hours per week on allpro, if you do 3 10min ab sessions, you are spending 25% of your weekly time on abs, thats kinda of a waste. Most of your core is worked out by the allpro workout, so dont over do the abs, else you might have a fatigued core for squats/row/sldl.
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    I cant for the life of me do SLDs with good form. My hamstrings have no stretch what so ever, cant even get close to the bar. Any suggested substitutions?
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    Originally Posted by KrisFromChile View Post
    I cant for the life of me do SLDs with good form. My hamstrings have no stretch what so ever, cant even get close to the bar. Any suggested substitutions?
    Thats kind of the point. Most cant get to the knees when they first start doing them. And when they are that tight, that also means alot of strain on the lower back when doing squats and real dead lifts.

    I would continue to do them, and hopefully adding a inch a cycle and in 5-7 cycles be able to get the bar to close to the top of the ankles.

    If you still want a sub, the sub is good mornings. Its about the same movement, but for some its easier to balance and uses a bit more upper back.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    72 hours rest before a heavy, and optimal is 48 hours rest before a medium or light. It really doesnt matter when you workout as long as its done before the days cardio/sports session and you have full glycogen stores from the meal you ate 8-12 hours before. About the only bad sched would be eat dinner, skip breakfast/lunch, then "carb up" 45-60min before the workout. Boosting blood glucose will help cardio, but its not going to do anything for anaerobic weight lifting.
    Sorry night,but I got little confused here with hours to rest.So if my heavy day was on Tuesday evening my medium day should be Thursday at least at same time as Heavy day?Light day should be next after 48hours?and cardio between all rest days?
    thanks a lot
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Find any "papers" on those issues.

    I havent tested the bulgarian split squat, but it may work IF you dont start leaning forward as you get tired.

    "increasing your heart rate and blood flow" does improve recovery, but its don via low intensity steady state cardio for 3 hours a week, not a few minutes before the workout.
    Foam rolling does noting, deep tissue massage can break up tissue from the back and forth motion.
    Static stretching does nothing, and you lose all range of motion a few minutes after you do it. Allpro uses full range of motion, so your real range of motion will improve over time by using a weight and going to the end of your current range of motion. This tells your cns its ok to lengthen the muscle farther without fear of injury.
    why does it seem like most of the google results say that foam rolling is beneficial? such as:

    "By smashing those knots and allowing soft tissue to operate correctly again, foam rolling increases range of motion and improves workout performance."

    breakingmuscle com/fitness/science-says-foam-rolling-increases-rom-and-does-not-decrease-strength
    ( i can't post links)

    and many google results say that dynamic stretching is beneficial, such as:

    "Glenn Harris, Boston University Athletics head strength and conditioning coach
    I suggest that people go through a dynamic stretching routine instead of a static stretching routine prior to exercising. Bringing the body through a range of motion can actually prepare it for the demands of the exercise session."

    bu edu/today/2015/stretch-before-exercise-not-so-fast/#comment-6937056
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  22. #5572
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jro91 View Post
    Sorry night,but I got little confused here with hours to rest.So if my heavy day was on Tuesday evening my medium day should be Thursday at least at same time as Heavy day?Light day should be next after 48hours?and cardio between all rest days?
    thanks a lot
    yes that is optimal. In a pinch some can do tues evening and thurs morning, or thurs evening and friday evening light day. The only hard and fast rule is no lifting 72 hours before any heavy. Some just do 2 heavies a week in a pinch.
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    Originally Posted by pandabaer View Post
    why does it seem like most of the google results say that foam rolling is beneficial? such as:

    "By smashing those knots and allowing soft tissue to operate correctly again, foam rolling increases range of motion and improves workout performance."

    breakingmuscle com/fitness/science-says-foam-rolling-increases-rom-and-does-not-decrease-strength
    ( i can't post links)

    and many google results say that dynamic stretching is beneficial, such as:

    "Glenn Harris, Boston University Athletics head strength and conditioning coach
    I suggest that people go through a dynamic stretching routine instead of a static stretching routine prior to exercising. Bringing the body through a range of motion can actually prepare it for the demands of the exercise session."

    bu edu/today/2015/stretch-before-exercise-not-so-fast/#comment-6937056
    Deep tissue massage has shown benefits for lifters. I have not found 1 paper nor any college pro sports rehab coaches showing foam rolling in any of their recommendations. The only science i have found on foam rolling, is for endurance athletes with injuries, and the foam rolling helped with fluid buildup and recovery.

    As for dynamic stretching, that is exactly what you are doing for warmups, you are bringing all the joints and muscles through their full range of motion with a light load.

    If you really want to do a stretching routine go for it. What is recommended on this forum is agile 8 and limber 11.
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    So I'm doing my heavy day Monday, medium day Wednesday, and light day Friday. Am I good to do cardio and abs on Saturday?
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    Originally Posted by daveminnich View Post
    So I'm doing my heavy day Monday, medium day Wednesday, and light day Friday. Am I good to do cardio and abs on Saturday?
    Cardio yes, abs its debateable. Ideally abs would be done directly after each workout. If your recovery is on point i dont see a problem, however the rule is no strength training during the 72 hours before a heavy. If abs causes too much fatigue, you work too close to failure, and get buried in fatigue.
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    Hey guys I'm starting cycle 4 of all pros beginner workout next week, I read a while back that you can add a workout after 3 cycles, does anyone know what I can add? I could of sworn it was pull ups or upright rows, thanks!!!
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    Originally Posted by marcosevelyn07 View Post
    Hey guys I'm starting cycle 4 of all pros beginner workout next week, I read a while back that you can add a workout after 3 cycles, does anyone know what I can add? I could of sworn it was pull ups or upright rows, thanks!!!
    after passing 2 test days you can add and accessory, you can add a final acccessory after passing 3 test days.

    Who knows what imbalances have showed up or if you even need additional volume.

    Typically you will need lats and side delt work on allpro. That can be handled by upright rows and chinups.
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    Ok I Will add those, can chin ups be replaced with lat pulldown in the machine ?
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    Originally Posted by marcosevelyn07 View Post
    Ok I Will add those, can chin ups be replaced with lat pulldown in the machine ?
    Yes, or chinups can replace curls.
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    Few questions,

    1. Ez barbell ok for OHP, rows, SLD and curls?
    2. On off days Should I do cardio or abs first?
    3. Its 3 days a week but does it look something like this? Mon heavy, tue off, wed medium, thur off, friday light, sat and sun off?
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