aware me on natty lifting (srs)

[mhong64]

#1 - train 3 times a week, FULLBODY, on non consecutive days (never train two days in a row)

#2 - For each bodypart, do 40 - 70 reps, divided by sets of 8 - 12 reps each

#3 - Progress very slowly

This is seriously it. I have a great .pdf from an italian university with a study conducted about muscular hypertrophy. want the link?

saw this stuff in eric helms vid, will look at article

If you have been lifting 9 months and have barely grown in size and strength then A) You need to eat in a surplus B) Lift heavier than you probably are C) Do compound lifts and get on a solid program D) Lift consistently.

did all these things, just have a terrible training response and im still young. started out on SL, then ICF, when that stopped working for me i switched to candito's linear and milked a little more. now i am just freestyling for fun because i am running cross country. i got up to 145 for 3x6 bench, 225 for 3x6 squat, 245 for 2x6 deadlift @155ish lbs. strength gain wasnt too bad but i didnt gain much muscle especially in upper body.

After 2 years natty lifting you are wasting your time if you still want to gain any significant size.

maybe but thats not what i want. honestly like 165-170 and 10-12% BF is fine, im still young and just want some muscle/strength while being lean and athletic. not to sound cheesy but stereotypical athlete or hollywood physique like zac efron, but also be a good runner, lifter and all around athlete

The question here would be, how does the academic researcher conceive and messure someone as an "advanced bodybuilders"; i consider myself and advanced bodybuilder from my point of view, but i might be wrong.

But as i say, as a natty lifter you should focus more on enjoying your time at gym and let the gains come as a side effect of enjoying hittin' dem weights. Discipline is everything.

yeah i just like to have fun, but seeing gains and enjoying myself is necessary.

[seksi]

Natty gains checking in. As long as you as want them, the gains will keep coming regardless of split. The body is very capable of adapting and growing stronger. You grow in response to stress. If you look like you don't even lift then you're not putting in enough. I train to the point of vomiting sometimes.

/thread

[mhong64]

First of all, if you didn't get any bigger or stronger after 9 months, something is wrong. Most likely a nutrition deficiency, since as a beginner you can have a horrible routine and it should still get results.

Everyone's different. Many people say for a beginner, full body 3x a week is optimal. Maybe this is because as you start out, your body doesn't have the capability to produce meaningful growth hormone on upper body day, and you must rely on the big leg muscles to get in an anabolic state.

If you have some starting size and strength (e.g. from other sports) it's possible that you just don't push yourself enough to get stronger. You should keep a log, and bump up the weight or reps EVERY workout, so you make sure you push yourself. When you fail the prescribed weight/sets/reps, reset to the programming for 4 weeks earlier and build it up again.

For example, I do 5 sets of each exercise. I started OHP with 40kg for 5x5. The next workout I did 5 sets of 5,6,5,5,5 reps with the same weight. Next 5,6,6,5,5, and so on until I hit 5x8, then I increase the weight and restart at 5x5. This way you are certain you do not understress your muscles, you work out at a good stress level below failure most of the time, and you get the satisfaction from seeing in your log that you burst through last month's plateau after resetting. It works for me, both physically and psychologically. Most programs have similar progression schemes, because that just works.

i had good diet, mentality, progression, and programming. i did 5x5 and then switched to candito's. i gained strength but muscle was very slow. my stats werent too bad (relative to BW) but thats because i didnt gain a ton of size. i have only done linear progression but because that is slowing down for me (failing weekly sometimes) i was thinking about doing very slow progression like you listed once i get back into lifting full time (focusing on running season right now, lifting for fun and to hold on to what i can)

[mhong64]

thanks for all the responses, i read them all just only replied to those i had something to say. to be more specific, my goals are below

- zac efron physique, athlete/hollywood body
- get strong, fast, and athletic with that body
- be healthy physically and mentally
- enjoy life and stay healthy/athletic in and out of the gym

edit- going to gym now, gonna do some upperbody and go for a jog later tonight, i am a runner too and its the season for cross country so not doing legs a ton, prob 1x a week or not at all while the season is on.

[deadliftdang]

thanks for all the responses, i read them all just only replied to those i had something to say. to be more specific, my goals are below

- zac efron physique, athlete/hollywood body
- get strong, fast, and athletic with that body
- be healthy physically and mentally
- enjoy life and stay healthy/athletic in and out of the gym

it will come slowly. natty gains are very, very slow. once you get past the beginner gains you are talking realistically a pound of good, clean muscle every two months at the most. at your height 5 10 your natural potential at 10 percent BF is probably something like 190 lbs~. so you have a lot of growth to go just keep lifting and enjoy yourself make sure your nutrition is on point and your routine on point. i spent over a year not really gaining at all due to not tracking my nutrition. it's really not that hard and it pays off in the end.

[GimpManlet]

i had good diet, mentality, progression, and programming. i did 5x5 and then switched to candito's. i gained strength but muscle was very slow. my stats werent too bad (relative to BW) but thats because i didnt gain a ton of size. i have only done linear progression but because that is slowing down for me (failing weekly sometimes) i was thinking about doing very slow progression like you listed once i get back into lifting full time (focusing on running season right now, lifting for fun and to hold on to what i can)

Alright my money's on some deficiency then. Maybe have some bloodwork done? Or just try a bunch of things (creatine, ZMA, beta-alanine, fish oil, ...) and see it if makes a difference.

Also, you're not neglecting legs because you run plenty, are you? A lot of running may make you more susceptible to things like undereating, electrolytes out of whack, too long in catabolic state (try BCAAs?). I'm not very knowledgable about any of these things, and for stuff like BCAAs and beta-alanine it's not always clear what benefits are real and what's marketing (when it comes to lifting anyway), but you may want to look into it.

Edit: if you got good strength gains, you may be having unrealistic expectations. Your avatar looks heavier than the stats below it suggest. It's possible you're just not in a beginner's body and you might want to get used to the fact that gains will be slow for some people. I'm no different but I'm perfectly fine with how I look and I get a kick out of the strength gains.

[Esrex]

Legit weight, reasonably lean... I'm more than happy, I got complimented regularly... While you're some non-avi.

OP, that link gives seriously good information. It's not written by some juiced dude getting paid to sell a supp.

You don't need to explain yourself to someone without an AVI or stats.

[MotorCityCobra]

#1 - train 3 times a week, FULLBODY, on non consecutive days (never train two days in a row)

#2 - For each bodypart, do 40 - 70 reps, divided by sets of 8 - 12 reps each

#3 - Progress very slowly

This is seriously it. I have a great .pdf from an italian university with a study conducted about muscular hypertrophy. want the link?

lol @ 3x fullbody workouts a week. no wonder u look fat.

[SpongeBobNoPant]

lol @ 3x fullbody workouts a week. no wonder u look fat.

Visible six pack all year round... first time in my whole life anyone tells me that lol ok then brah

[jimbob007]

[MotorCityCobra]

Visible six pack all year round... first time in my whole life anyone tells me that lol ok then brah

i don't see no six pack on your avi, all i see a pancake looking flabby stomach. my guess is u are skinnyfat. when u aren't event aestethic, don't be giving out broscience advice pal.

brb squatting
brb bench pressing
brb rowing
brb curling
ON THE SAME DAY lmao.

[SpongeBobNoPant]

i don't see no six pack on your avi, all i see a pancake looking flabby stomach. my guess is u are skinnyfat. when u aren't event aestethic, don't be giving out broscience advice pal.

Why are you so salty brah?

[Esrex]

Workout full body 3x a week/upper-lower. I went from 325-240lbs and squat went from 225 to 405 in a year of consistent training in a 1000 calorie/day deficit. The key is knowing when and how to introduce periodization into your training. Even if you don't subscribe completely to what he says reading practical programming from beginning to end is an absolute must.

[jeffl1980]

Legit weight, reasonably lean... I'm more than happy, I got complimented regularly... While you're some non-avi.

OP, that link gives seriously good information. It's not written by some juiced dude getting paid to sell a supp.

Honestly looks like you have been lifting for a few months.

[justarandomdude]

Mann you wasted all your possibilities for natty gainz, your first year of training if you do it the right way you gain 40lbs of muscle easy...feel bad for you now it's too late

[MotorCityCobra]

Why are you so salty brah?

bc you are poisoning the misc with bad advice. nothing personal don't have an issue with u brah.

[stknrice]

what are the best methods? main focuses? i see so many conflicting opinions and different ideas. i grow little to none in size and strength. 9 months into lifting.

aware me on best ways to grow in size/strength/aesthetics/performance as a natty. in4 anyone's opinions, experiences, linked articles, anything will help.

just do all pro begginer's routine(don't do starting strength or that ****ty strength routines, they are useless for aesthetics) and eat 4500 calories a day...if you get too fat cut the calories to 4000 or to 3500......but you'll grow......don't do that +200 calories surplus...it's useless and hard to manage.....just cut the fat later

[jeffl1980]

just do all pro begginer's routine(don't do starting strength or that ****ty strength routines, they are useless for aesthetics) and eat 4500 calories a day...if you get too fat cut the calories to 4000 or to 3500......but you'll grow......don't do that +200 calories surplus...it's useless and hard to manage.....just cut the fat later

He weighs 155. 4500 calories is fuarking ridiculous. He would be close to 1500 over maintenance.

[Brozef]

i had good diet, mentality, progression, and programming.

I don't know what you mean by good diet, but I think MOST people new to bodybuilding don't know that they have to eat enough calories so that they are putting on body weight.

Building bigger muscles is adding weight to your body right? So you have to eat enough to gain weight. Don't expect your body to make something from nothing.

Just because you want your body to grow doesn't mean that it will. It NEEDS the materials to do so. If you have been lifting for 9 months with little muscle gain I can practically GUARANTEE you aren't eating enough to put on weight, if all other parameters have been met (mostly proper training and quality sleep).

[Dolan28]

Natty lifter checking in.

Personal best objective practices:

1) Eat a very large surplus if you plan on training more than 3x a week (srs) by that I mean you should be at least consuming a 500+ calorie surplus on all days, off and training days.

2) Do not train with a bro split. That is not for beginner lifters who don't already have an impressive physique. Do an upper/lower split 3-4 times a week.

3) Form matters. Form> weight if you are natty.

4) Sleep/ rest matters. That is where the gains are made. Over training is real for natural lifters. You need muscular/skeletal/nervous system recovery.

5) Progressive overload is king. Only way to really make substantial natty gains is to constantly hit new goals/weights.

2.5 year progress:



3 year progress:

[Zorminator]

This happens when you don't increase your protein and calories intake.

[Marronis]

Even if you stay lifting natty, you will still be bigger than nearly all of the general population.

Routine that works best for me is

Monday - chest triceps shoulders
Tuesday - back biceps
Wednesday - legs shoulders
Thursday - biceps triceps
Friday - chest and back

Sleep and eat right and you'll be golden

[Nosferatu187]

Listen, I don't want to have an e-argument with some troll. You're free to disregard the study if you prefer to.

I have downloaded the file, I am always looking to update myself with new studies and such.

[alejo2308]

#1 - train 3 times a week, FULLBODY, on non consecutive days (never train two days in a row)

#2 - For each bodypart, do 40 - 70 reps, divided by sets of 8 - 12 reps each

#3 - Progress very slowly

This is seriously it. I have a great .pdf from an italian university with a study conducted about muscular hypertrophy. want the link?

u wot m8. you don't have to do those things to get bigger. you can train more times a week if you eat enough and recover well. it's not necessary to do full-body routines, even though it's probably the most time-efficient thing to do. during the first year and a half or two years you can actually progress very quickly if you're eating well and recovering, progressing very slowly could actually be detrimental to improvements on your physique (progressive overload?), not to mention the fact that you'd be wasting the potential for growth you have in that time frame (noob gains).

[Vaynex]

Everyones different and different things will work for different people. There isnt just one set way

[Nosferatu187]

do all my compounds in the 4-6 rep range but you can bump it up to 8 if you're more size oriented.

/giggles

[alejo2308]

Natty lifter checking in.

Personal best objective practices:

1) Eat a very large surplus if you plan on training more than 3x a week (srs) by that I mean you should be at least consuming a 500+ calorie surplus on all days, off and training days.

2) Do not train with a bro split. That is not for beginner lifters who don't already have an impressive physique. Do an upper/lower split 3-4 times a week.

3) Form matters. Form> weight if you are natty.

4) Sleep/ rest matters. That is where the gains are made. Over training is real for natural lifters. You need muscular/skeletal/nervous system recovery.

5) Progressive overload is king. Only way to really make substantial natty gains is to constantly hit new goals/weights.

2.5 year progress:



3 year progress:

right on the money, brah. OP, listen to this guy.

[mhong64]

Alright my money's on some deficiency then. Maybe have some bloodwork done? Or just try a bunch of things (creatine, ZMA, beta-alanine, fish oil, ...) and see it if makes a difference.

Also, you're not neglecting legs because you run plenty, are you? A lot of running may make you more susceptible to things like undereating, electrolytes out of whack, too long in catabolic state (try BCAAs?). I'm not very knowledgable about any of these things, and for stuff like BCAAs and beta-alanine it's not always clear what benefits are real and what's marketing (when it comes to lifting anyway), but you may want to look into it.

Edit: if you got good strength gains, you may be having unrealistic expectations. Your avatar looks heavier than the stats below it suggest. It's possible you're just not in a beginner's body and you might want to get used to the fact that gains will be slow for some people. I'm no different but I'm perfectly fine with how I look and I get a kick out of the strength gains.

1- legs are what grew the most, i played hockey so squats/deadlifts were strong to me, i wasnt running during the off season but now i am, havent squatted or deadlifted in like 2 weeks, just lifting for fun now, want to do legs 1x a week tho. i eat a lot but like i said, all the problems occured when i wasnt running, taking it less seriously for the season

2- my avi is a lie srs. good lighting replaces my muscle with fat and just happened to take a good photo from that side, i mainly use photos for personal progress updates. i think my bloodwork is fine but im still a younger teen and despite my height i dont have much hair at all, especially for my age. maybe my hormones are just a bit behind.

Mann you wasted all your possibilities for natty gainz, your first year of training if you do it the right way you gain 40lbs of muscle easy...feel bad for you now it's too late

yeah i was wondering if noob gains were a time thing or a quantity thing. but i dont think 40 lbs of muscle is srs

I don't know what you mean by good diet, but I think MOST people new to bodybuilding don't know that they have to eat enough calories so that they are putting on body weight.

Building bigger muscles is adding weight to your body right? So you have to eat enough to gain weight. Don't expect your body to make something from nothing.

Just because you want your body to grow doesn't mean that it will. It NEEDS the materials to do so. If you have been lifting for 9 months with little muscle gain I can practically GUARANTEE you aren't eating enough to put on weight, if all other parameters have been met (mostly proper training and quality sleep).

but i calculated my maintenance when i started, and slowly bumped up calories. gained a lb a week but a lot of it was water weight and fat. i ate well and a lot, slept a lot, trained right, and hard, just dont think my body was ready to make lots of muscle.

Natty lifter checking in.

Personal best objective practices:

1) Eat a very large surplus if you plan on training more than 3x a week (srs) by that I mean you should be at least consuming a 500+ calorie surplus on all days, off and training days.

2) Do not train with a bro split. That is not for beginner lifters who don't already have an impressive physique. Do an upper/lower split 3-4 times a week.

3) Form matters. Form> weight if you are natty.

4) Sleep/ rest matters. That is where the gains are made. Over training is real for natural lifters. You need muscular/skeletal/nervous system recovery.

5) Progressive overload is king. Only way to really make substantial natty gains is to constantly hit new goals/weights.

=

nice transformation and thanks for tips, i applied most of those to training already, only more time will answer my questions now. my brother grew to 185 and 12% BF in a year and didnt know anything about lifting. always had super hormones and gained super fast, my dads side. he was an adult after 8th grade pretty much. im the exact opposite so maybe i need more time to develop and mature, im still young and seem to be a late bloomer in the hormone department despite being pretty tall

[stknrice]

He weighs 155. 4500 calories is fuarking ridiculous. He would be close to 1500 over maintenance.

he will be fine....better safe than sorry....if he gets too fat he should reduce calories to 3500......if you have a 200 calories surplus you risk doing more activity on that day and fall into maintenance.....just consume at least 700 over maintenance to be sure....

[mhong64]

he will be fine....better safe than sorry....if he gets too fat he should reduce calories to 3500......if you have a 200 calories surplus you risk doing more activity on that day and fall into maintenance.....just consume at least 700 over maintenance to be sure....

i gained a lb a week at like 3100-3200, i was in a 500 cal surplus around there, gained a lot of fat and when i cut down i got a lot weaker and probably lost muscle but that was my first try. idk brah, i follow all the natty lifting rules of eating, sleeping, progressing, and training but its either my body, time, or both. currently running cross country and gonna slowly lean down during the 2ish months to 10-12%. i think ill just stay there and lean bulk and just enjoy training in general.