Floundering on

[Flounderbout]

Flounder (v): to move clumsily or with little progress, as through water or mud.

So until yesterday I have not set foot inside a gym for nearly a month. This was not a fixed plan, but was a consequence of a) wanting to spend as much time as possible with the family while I was off work, and b) some disillusionment with progress this year. I have not got to where I wanted to be. The only PR I have hit this whole year is a new bench of 110kg, and that is way off where I should be. Meanwhile I have made no progress on deads or squats, and have gone backwards a bit on both. My total is still around 1000lb, when I should really be looking at more like 1200 by this stage, nearly 3 years in. Progress was slow in the first six months (when I had no idea what I was doing), fast in the next 12 months (when I had pulled my head out of my ass), and then since then has been glacial.

From the aesthetics point of view, my extended diet has resulted in my dropping from a high of around 87kg (192lb) to 77.7kg (172lb), but I am still a long way from being lean - probably around 13%. I guess that means I have lost a fair amount of muscle mass along the way, although it also suggests I was a lot fatter than I thought I was when I was up at 190.

So two (conflicting) goals chased, and two goals missed by a distance. No real surprise there. On the other hand, I am not prepared to sacrifice strength to just keep chasing abs, or chase totals at the expense of turning into a lard-ass. So I guess I will just press on.

Happy to hear any suggestions on how to improve things this year - since it is plain I am not making progress.

Here's how I see my mistakes.

Kitchen

My bulk last winter was too steep - I must have put on a lot of fat, hence why this diet has been so long and drawn out. Will try and bulk more slowly this winter, and will not let myself get as fat before I cut back.

My diet (I can't call it a cut, given I went from chubby to less chubby and came nowhere near getting lean) was too long. My numbers suffered, and so did my attitude. By the end of July I was fed up with the gym. Next time I will try to diet harder for a shorter period.

Generally I am going to start paying a bit more attention to my macros and see if I can't find some improvements in what I am eating.

Gym

Intensity - My gym sessions have been taking quite a long time, but without huge volume. The main reason is that the breaks between lifts have been getting gradually longer. I am going to cut those right back. The same work done, but more intense. That should leave more time for accessories, which I am going to start to pay a bit more attention to.

Otherwise I am going to stick with 531 with extra squats. I am going to throw in another bench session after pressing to try and get hat shifting again, and may do some pressing after benching too to try and get that on the move. But I am not going to start messing with the program to try and find a quick fix.

Goals

I think I thought last year that if I could just get up to 200lb, all my numbers would shoot up. This time I am going to continue to eat at a surplus without going nuts, and push for the numbers in the gym without worrying too much about my weight.

The short/medium term goal is a 200kg dead, a 180kg squat, and a 120kg bench. That would be a 1100 total, which I would be chuffed about. If I can get there without turning into the Michelin man, so much the better.

Let's go.

[SteveWright1]

In 1st for lean gains for balance of 2015 and in to 2016

build up the muscle by increasing the weight shifted and then cutting to reveal it sounds like a good plan to me
with focus on both at the same time, eating enough to fuel strength becomes compromised by eating cautiously to preserve physique

focus on 1 aspect at a time may be more productive for you
now you have enough experience at both disciplines (lift progression and dieting) only doing one of them at a time, should make life much easier for you training wise

Good luck in the race to 1100 Flounderbout

[Flounderbout]

First day back yesterday, and did some deads.

Cycle 1 Week 1
Working sets

5 × 112.5kg (248lb) DOH. Easy enough.

5 × 130kg (286lb). DOH. Last rep had to swap to mixed grip - knurling on the bar was very worn. Otherwise easy enough.

5+ × 147.5kg (325lb). Felt tough. Only made 7, and felt a bit of a tweak in one of my traps. Vid below. Still doing the thing John noticed where I throw my head back - must try and cut that out.



BBB

3 x 5 x 137.5kg (303lb). This felt hard but doable.

In between each set I did planks - 2mins, 1min, 1min. They were hard.

Hanging leg raises/skin the cats

The rings were in use so did some HLRs from a bar - 8, 8, 6. Then the rings freed up so did a few STC's, but my core was toast by this stage.

Done.

Not a great start, but OK after a long break. Feel sore today, but in a good way. Here we go.

[doughnutgut]

Cant bee leaf its not butter.

[raynerd]

There he is....my opinion:
Extended deficit is really a terrible thing for the psyche, you have made progress, it's just blanketed by the deficit...what I mean is if you dieted down to 172 last year your numbers would be much less.

Anyway drive a steak in ya and get back to work, nothing is more motivating then the first few months of food gainz in a surplus

Nice first session back man! Deads look like you knew what u were doing!

[mirroroferised]

Oh and nice job repping weights like you never took a month off

[piperdown]

Looks like a solid goal.

Wondering what you'd been up to…...

[Plateauplower]

Good to see you back. I have to give a deposition in a few weeks so looking forward to any insight into things that irritate lawyers .

I think the plan sounds good. Consistency with eating to the goal and training hard will all but guarantee positive results. A year or so ago I would watch your squat vids for motivation because
A. You would post them around 4am (my time) when I had a few minutes to watch them before the gym.
B. You were squatting more than me, and it was obvious you were really pushing yourself.

I don't think lack of progress has anything to do with your drive. Just need to be consistent and eat to the goal.

Also having a Poll for a journal is against the rules you are now banned and negged. (Not srs) I think your plan sounds good. Train and eat with purpose - consistently. Good to see you back.

[fittofattofit]

My total is still around 1000lb, when I should really be looking at more like 1200 by this stage, nearly 3 years in.

Not at 1200lbs yet .... shame on you

Seriously ... must people never get to 1000lbs total let alone 1200lb total so you've done great. If you look at what you achieved over the last year you could summarise it as 'consolidating'. I think it's John who talked about the pyramid, and you spent the year building up your base strength, correcting your form and getting control of your diet. And that was all the time while working in a difficult job , raising a young family, and moving house. Pretty impressive, and from where I see it, you've got great strength and stamina (that deadlift session today for the first time in a month was better than where I am now), you're looking lean, and your form on deads and squats is really good and consistent. It all looks like you're primed for a great year from now on

[Richie71]

It's important to remember this:


and in reality, that second graph is overly optimistic.

Good luck with the new plan

[Jtbny]

The thing I like, and that got my attention, with 5/3/1 was its simplicity. Couple that with the countless people I had read about that we're seeing results and I was sold. Over the last year and a half I've been running the program (or some variant) and the journals I've followed of others who've ran it or some other program I've noticed a trend. Those who stayed consistent with their training and or diet have had the most success. Those who shift gears too often make much less progress with weight loss, training or both. And just about EVeRYONE over complicates things. KISS.

This past year I had fallen into the later category of those who shifted and sacrificed progress. Outside influence had more impact on me than I had realized.

I have seen you fall into that category also. While I think it's ridiculous to think of yourself "floundering" because you haven't achieved a 1200 total (like that's such an easy thing to do ) I do understand the disappointment of conceived "time wasted" and high personal standards. Sometimes looking in the fish bowl here or online screws with us and forces us to set the bar too high.

Tldr: I'm in
Time and consistency will yield results.

[shaneinga]

Welcome back Flounder. Consider me IN.

Nice first workout logged, so your new shiny journal is off to a great start.

Good luck with your goals.

[RT1957]

what???....you gonna turn into one of those guys who has to start a new journal every week based on weather conditions or how fast their favorite horse runs....????

IN....

Now go squat

[Cooper72]

Well I certainly feel your pain. It's frustrating to feel like you've come up short of your strength goals. In my case, I've opted to switch up a routine I've followed for over 2 years to try and get back on track. You've already acknowledged how tough it can be to serve two masters (unless you are of the Bacon clan). Interested to see where your focus will be with the new log.

[Flounderbout]

Spot saved for later.

Cant bee leaf its not butter.

F5 F5 F5. Nope, nothing. Nada...

There he is....my opinion:
Extended deficit is really a terrible thing for the psyche, you have made progress, it's just blanketed by the deficit...what I mean is if you dieted down to 172 last year your numbers would be much less.

Anyway drive a steak in ya and get back to work, nothing is more motivating then the first few months of food gainz in a surplus : D

Nice first session back man! Deads look like you knew what u were doing!

Cheers Shawn, and yes the diet did feck with me for a while. Once I stopped lifting it was fine - I could stay at the same cals with no trouble at all, and the weight continued to go down. But lifting tolerably heavy and dieting was tough, and I should have gone shorter.

Oh and nice job repping weights like you never took a month off : )

Cheers Dave. It didn't feel like I hadn't been away, that is for sure!

Looks like a solid goal.

Wondering what you'd been up to…...

Hi Eric. Good to see you around.

Good to see you back. I have to give a deposition in a few weeks so looking forward to any insight into things that irritate lawyers : D.

I think the plan sounds good. Consistency with eating to the goal and training hard will all but guarantee positive results. A year or so ago I would watch your squat vids for motivation because
A. You would post them around 4am (my time) when I had a few minutes to watch them before the gym.
B. You were squatting more than me, and it was obvious you were really pushing yourself.

I don't think lack of progress has anything to do with your drive. Just need to be consistent and eat to the goal.

Also having a Poll for a journal is against the rules you are now banned and negged. (Not srs) I think your plan sounds good. Train and eat with purpose - consistently. Good to see you back.

Cheers Tim. Time, consistency, patience. I'll aim for two of these...

Re the deposition, in all seriousness take your time, make sure you understand the question, and play it completely straight. The two things that get witnesses in trouble giving evidence are a) trying to second guess where the questions are going and answering accordingly, and b) answering the question they thought was being asked, not the question that was actually asked. Always take time to consider the question, and ask them to repeat it if necessary. And there is nothing wrong in saying "I don't know" or "I don't remember" if that is the case!

Not at 1200lbs yet .... shame on you ; )

Seriously ... must people never get to 1000lbs total let alone 1200lb total so you've done great. If you look at what you achieved over the last year you could summarise it as 'consolidating'. I think it's John who talked about the pyramid, and you spent the year building up your base strength, correcting your form and getting control of your diet. And that was all the time while working in a difficult job , raising a young family, and moving house. Pretty impressive, and from where I see it, you've got great strength and stamina (that deadlift session today for the first time in a month was better than where I am now), you're looking lean, and your form on deads and squats is really good and consistent. It all looks like you're primed for a great year from now on : )

Thanks Andrew. I know that 1200 is setting the bar pretty high. But that is where I want to be. I am happy to have hit 1000, no question, and I appreciate that for others that is still a goal. But I have high expectations, and I need them, because otherwise I will lose interest and quit. It would be all too easy for me to look back in 5 years time and say that I used to have a 1000 total. I need to be moving on or I will just start free-wheeling.

It's important to remember this:
[img]http://taolifestudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Road-to-Success.jpg[/ img]

and in reality, that second graph is overly optimistic.

Good luck with the new plan

Thanks Richie. Yep, I get that, and I am under no illusions about the lack of progress this year. Two steps forward, one step back and all. But I am frustrated that I have made the same mistakes this year that everyone warns newbies about (including me). And there is no harm in trying to correct them.

The thing I like, and that got my attention, with 5/3/1 was its simplicity. Couple that with the countless people I had read about that we're seeing results and I was sold. Over the last year and a half I've been running the program (or some variant) and the journals I've followed of others who've ran it or some other program I've noticed a trend. Those who stayed consistent with their training and or diet have had the most success. Those who shift gears too often make much less progress with weight loss, training or both. And just about EVeRYONE over complicates things. KISS.

This past year I had fallen into the later category of those who shifted and sacrificed progress. Outside influence had more impact on me than I had realized.

I have seen you fall into that category also. While I think it's ridiculous to think of yourself "floundering" because you haven't achieved a 1200 total (like that's such an easy thing to do :rolleyes : ) I do understand the disappointment of conceived "time wasted" and high personal standards. Sometimes looking in the fish bowl here or online screws with us and forces us to set the bar too high.

Tldr: I'm in : D
Time and consistency will yield results.

Well here is a rare thing. John and I disagree! See I don't think 1200 is setting the bar too high. I think it is setting the bar high, but not unattainably high. And to prove it, I am damn well going to hit it!

Where I do agree is that not hitting 1200 is not the same as "failing", and if that is how my initial post came across it shouldn't have. 1200 is what I think I could have achieved in 3 years if I had not made the mistakes I have. The fact I have made mistakes is fine, so long as I put them right.

As for the rest, I completely agree. The journals with the most progress are the ones with the fewest changes, no question. But here's the thing. I bulked for a long time, and then dieted for a long time, precisely because I was trying to stay consistent. The alternative would have been to do short bulk cycles and cut cycles, but that would seem like more change rather than less. So what do you think is the best route to bumping the numbers whilst staying lean (assuming the program just stays the same)? Shorter bulk/cuts? Longer but very slow bulk/cuts? Or pick a weight and just eat around maintenance?

[Flounderbout]

Ninjas everywhere!

Welcome back Flounder. Consider me IN.

Nice first workout logged, so your new shiny journal is off to a great start.

Good luck with your goals.

Cheers Shane. Let the goal choosing begin...

what???....you gonna turn into one of those guys who has to start a new journal every week based on weather conditions or how fast their favorite horse runs....????

IN....: p

Now go squat

Ha, I'm not one of those blowing in the wind types who follows every passing trend just because someone is doing it - new journals, 20 rep squats...

Well I certainly feel your pain. It's frustrating to feel like you've come up short of your strength goals. In my case, I've opted to switch up a routine I've followed for over 2 years to try and get back on track. You've already acknowledged how tough it can be to serve two masters (unless you are of the Bacon clan). Interested to see where your focus will be with the new log.

Wot no more singles? Will follow the new plan with interest.

The focus is going to be on getting to 1200. The size of me (or mah belly) in the course of that will be tracked and hopefully kept in reasonable check, but of secondary concern.

[Jtbny]

I don't think having a "goal total" is a bad thing but I think it can cloud the efforts. I'm guilty of that myself but have come to realize it's not that simple to hit or even stay at a certain threshold. I've tried to change my thinking about a total to one of better form, rep Prs instead of a whatever total.

Advice on what you should do? **** H, I'm just a fat merican (autocorrect tried to say Mexican), who barely can run his own crap correctly I can tell you my approach now though.

I'm doing things in training blocks and sticking to that. So for example I'm in the lose weight block. That's my goal and nothing else. I'll push myself under the bar but not give a fuk about strength. When that ends I'll start my strength block and run that for my planned amount of time. I'm not letting numbers "drive" my planning rather time. This is an oversimplified description but the underlying theme is consistency for an alotted time frame in a long term plan making minor tweaks along the way.

And ffs have fun.

[Flounderbout]

Wednesday is usually a rest day, but I missed Monday (it was a bank holiday), and tomorrow and Friday look difficult (all day work meetings), so hit the gym today. Was pretty stiff from yesterday's deads, so had to MTFU a bit.

Bench Day

So started with some squats. Figured I better ease into it - the legs were already DOM-ridden, and the punishment fairies will not like the month off.

Warmed up with the bar, 60kg and 80kg.

Working set

Figured that since everyone seems to be indulging in 20 rep set idiocy, I would play. Wasn't sure what I could do 20 reps with, so went for 2pps. Turns out that was a bit punchy for the first squat set back.



Made 14 but was running on fumes. Will build up to 20 reps over the next couple of weeks.

Bench

5 x 60kg (132lb). Felt fine.

5 x 65kg (143lb). Felt pretty good.

5+ x 75kg (165lb). Felt sooo heavy! WTF! Made 6 or 7 - I forget which. More backsliding on the bench - though hopefully just a result of the break! Failure was in the tris at lockout - vowed to do some more tri isolation work.

BBB

5 x 70kg (154lb). Hard work

4 x 70kg (154lb). Needed a spot from some passing guy who saw my struggling to rerack - lockout again - tris were fried.

2 x 5 x 65kg (143lb). Ugh - hard work on the last rep each time - tris again. Was pleased with general stability though.

1 x 4 x 65kg (143lb). Didn't have the last rep.

Face pulls

5 x 15 x 24.5kg setting. Burning agony.

Close Grip Bench

Punished tris for their failure with some CGBP.

1 x 15 x 40kg (88lb)

1 x 6 x 50kg (110lb). Too much - back to the 40k.

1 x 10 x 40kg (88lb). Tris sobbed.

Kroc rows

3 x 10 (each hand) x 40kg DB (88lb). Enjoyed these, though they were brutal.

Conclusions

A great session today. Squats were poor and bench was rubbish, but I rattled through the work and the difference in intensity was massive. Got through a whole lot of work in the same time I usually spend doing half the work, and was fecked afterwards. I was very pleased. This is what I have to keep up in future. No swanning around the gym between sets any more...

[Flounderbout]

I don't think having a "goal total" is a bad thing but I think it can cloud the efforts. I'm guilty of that myself but have come to realize it's not that simple to hit or even stay at a certain threshold. I've tried to change my thinking about a total to one of better form, rep Prs instead of a whatever total.

Advice on what you should do? **** H, I'm just a fat merican (autocorrect tried to say Mexican), who barely can run his own crap correctly I can tell you my approach now though.

I'm doing things in training blocks and sticking to that. So for example I'm in the lose weight block. That's my goal and nothing else. I'll push myself under the bar but not give a fuk about strength. When that ends I'll start my strength block and run that for my planned amount of time. I'm not letting numbers "drive" my planning rather time. This is an oversimplified description but the underlying theme is consistency for an alotted time frame in a long term plan making minor tweaks along the way.

And ffs, having fun is for pussies. You are in the gym to become a hyooge beast, so stop treating it like fecking playtime, you loser.

Wise words these (especially the last bit...)

[shaneinga]

Killer workout. You leave the gym for a month, decide you want to get in on the 20 rep squat shenanigans, throw 2pps per side and go to work. I like your style.

I also like you selection of workouts for accessory work. Taking notes there.

I really like the Kroc rows as well, they are a brutal exercise that leave me feeling like my back has been worked hard.

I would say you have ran off your alter ego, and are way past vag at this point. Keep it up!

[raynerd]

Great job FB! 14 reps at 2pps is pretty damn impressive after a month off and the bench will be flying back up in no time.

[doughnutgut]

Got to reluctantly agree with the way most of us fall into the trap of this, that and the other.

Eyes on the prize big guy. Eyes on the prize.

Although your expectations of 1200 is not unrealistic by any means. Especially with your determination. But understand that the speed of progress from where you started to where you got to the 1000lb club. Will not be as linear. Or as quick.

But I know you got this.


Plus I also know that your bench is pissing you off. But at present. It makes me happy at least.



Now welcome back. A well deserved break IMHO. Just call it a 3 cycle deload and crack dafuq on.

[mirroroferised]

Nice work going for 20 reps with 2 PPS. Gotta love the go big or go home mentality


Bench will come around in the next couple of weeks. Pushing is always the hardest.

Ha, I'm not one of those blowing in the wind types who follows every passing trend just because someone is doing it - new journals, 20 rep squats...

FFS guys at least wait til I leave the room

[conoutlook]

Squat monster....

Love the poll dude

[piperdown]

Whew! I'm tired after watching you squat that many reps.....would have called it a day at that point.
No wonder your bench is off...you already burned the energy doing squats!

You have heard the term "less is more" I assume.

[SteveWright1]

sneaking another ninja post in to congrat you on the deadlift , bench and squat sessions done thus far
going for a 20 repper with 2 plates per side = mirin

[RT1957]

Nice try at the 20 Flounder....Keep at it....you're down at my poverty bench level....welcome back

[Flounderbout]

Holy feck but last week was brutal! Both Thursday and Friday I had 12 hour work meetings, so no chance to get in the gym, as feared. But the DOMs!!! OMFG. On Thursday morning it felt like I had been hit by all the trains. Friday was worse. I have never suffered so much after a gym session. I guess an attempted 20 repper is not the ideal reintroduction after a break. Anyhow, back to it today....

Killer workout. You leave the gym for a month, decide you want to get in on the 20 rep squat shenanigans, throw 2pps per side and go to work. I like your style.

I also like you selection of workouts for accessory work. Taking notes there.

I really like the Kroc rows as well, they are a brutal exercise that leave me feeling like my back has been worked hard.

I would say you have ran off your alter ego, and are way past vag at this point. Keep it up!

Cheers Shane. Every time I reintroduce Krocs I regret dropping them. I drop them because I don't like them. I don't like them because they are hard. They are hard because they are good. Going to make them a fixture and man up.

Great job FB! 14 reps at 2pps is pretty damn impressive after a month off and the bench will be flying back up in no time.

Thanks Shawn. It felt pretty heavy TBH. Hopefully that was just a momentary blip...

Got to reluctantly agree with the way most of us fall into the trap of this, that and the other.

Eyes on the prize big guy. Eyes on the prize.

Although your expectations of 1200 is not unrealistic by any means. Especially with your determination. But understand that the speed of progress from where you started to where you got to the 1000lb club. Will not be as linear. Or as quick.

But I know you got this.

Plus I also know that your bench is pissing you off. But at present. It makes me happy at least. ; )

Now welcome back. A well deserved break IMHO. Just call it a 3 cycle deload and crack dafuq on.

Cheers Donut. Not too pissed off with bench TBH - I know it will come back fast with work and food. But I'm glad it is cheering you up anyway...

Having set out my goal at the outset I am now just going to focus on the work. Not many 1RM attempts, and not going to worry too much about the ups and downs. Just going to watch the food intake, and lift heavy, and I am trusting that the new intensity will take me down the right road.

Nice work going for 20 reps with 2 PPS. Gotta love the go big or go home mentality : D

Bench will come around in the next couple of weeks. Pushing is always the hardest.

FFS guys at least wait til I leave the room : p

LOL you knew I was thinking of you. Which means you get the blame for the pain I felt after engaging with that whole fecking silly idea...

Squat monster....

Love the poll dude

Cheers Con! I am a bit put out that everyone seems to think I am a pussy though...

Whew! I'm tired after watching you squat that many reps.....would have called it a day at that point.
No wonder your bench is off...you already burned the energy doing squats!

You have heard the term "less is more" I assume.

I've heard it. I can also disprove it using any number of different though extremely compelling means. 2>1.

sneaking another ninja post in to congrat you on the deadlift , bench and squat sessions done thus far
going for a 20 repper with 2 plates per side = mirin

Cheers Ninja Steve!

Nice try at the 20 Flounder....Keep at it....you're down at my poverty bench level....welcome back ; )

Thanks Ron. Keep at it I certainly will...

[Flounderbout]

So started the first week of the program again today, after missing 2 out of 4 sessions last week for work reasons.

Deadlifts working sets

5 x 112.5kg (248lb). Easy enough. DOH.

5 x 130kg (286lb). Fine, though had to switch from DOH to mixed grip on rep 3 (no chalk).

5+ x 147.5kg (325lb). (Versas) Made 8, an increase of one rep from last week. Still felt pretty heavy TBH. Oh well. It'll come back. Video below.



The music does not get any better in this place...

BBB

Supersetted these with planks @ 2 mins, 90 secs, 60 secs, 60 secs.

3 x 5 x 140kg (308lb). These were really tough, but gritted through them.

STCs

Just a few of these - core was already pretty fried from planking.

Note

Deadlift day is the one day I have not added in lots of accessory work. On DL day, if I push the + set and the BBB sets, I am pretty much fried by the time it is over. I'm usually (read always) pretty happy to call it a day...

[piperdown]

Gotta love people walking right in front of your set.

Darn fine set at 8. Didn't look overly fatigued but I know that's an illusion.

Still rocking sumo I see.