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  1. #121
    Registered User coconuttree2009's Avatar
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    Thanks for explanation.
    I have a feeling I have been doing squat stance deadlifts my whole lifting career without knowing it...
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  2. #122
    Registered User likeafish's Avatar
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    I love that you're always trying new things. Lifting for a decade and never heard of squat stance DLs!

    Does grabbing the smooth part affect your grip much?
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  3. #123
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by likeafish View Post
    I love that you're always trying new things. Lifting for a decade and never heard of squat stance DLs!

    Does grabbing the smooth part affect your grip much?
    I just heard of them last month; I read a lot of articles, and although many of them are just bunk to sell you supplements, it's nice to get new ideas I can try out.

    The grip isn't affected too much, it just feels weird. I think my grip might have been too narrow for the form. Your arms should be just inside your legs I think, and mine were closer together. I'll have to play around with it for next week or two.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  4. #124
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Deadlift 5x135; 2x185; 1x225; 5x1x250; did some practice with squat stance.
    1 Arm Push Press 1x6x35; 1x6x25
    CGBP 3x10x45
    Seated Cable Row 3x10x45
    Hanging Ab Raises 3xF (10,6,7)
    EZ Curl/Skullcrusher Superset 3x10x35lbs
    Sled Pushes 6x160lbs @ 25 yards
    Lat Pulldowns 10 with black bands and 10x60lbs with a slow negative
    back/quad soft tissue work with tennis ball
    stretching

    Right now, I'm just testing asst. exercises for my new program. I hadn't done 1 arm push presses in a while, felt kind of weird. Will try them again; unsure if I want them or just a seated dumbbell press
    cgbp went fine- just used the bar since I hadn't done them in 1-2 years
    1 problem I noticed is that each cable machine is different, so tracking will be difficult. I'll have to try to use the same machine each time.
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  5. #125
    Registered User coconuttree2009's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Partyrocking View Post
    I just heard of them last month; I read a lot of articles, and although many of them are just bunk to sell you supplements, it's nice to get new ideas I can try out.

    The grip isn't affected too much, it just feels weird. I think my grip might have been too narrow for the form. Your arms should be just inside your legs I think, and mine were closer together. I'll have to play around with it for next week or two.
    I saw there is an article about squat stance DL on T-Nation explaining the form. Yes, the arms are meant to be inside the legs with elbows slightly bent.
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  6. #126
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coconuttree2009 View Post
    I saw there is an article about squat stance DL on T-Nation explaining the form. Yes, the arms are meant to be inside the legs with elbows slightly bent.
    Elbows bent? interesting I wonder if you're supposed to keep your grip double overhand. With a mixed grip, that sounds like potential for a bicep tear.

    Deadlifts 5x135; 3x185; 1x225; 5x1x250
    Slow Negatives with Lat Pulldown
    Front Squats 4x6x55lbs
    BSS 1x3x40lbs; 1x8x30lbs
    Hanging Ab Raises 3x7
    leg curl/leg extension superset 2x15x65lbs/2x12x34
    myofascial release with softball, quads and back
    kettlebell swings 2x10x88lbs
    hip thrusts with a resistance band 1x10

    Wasn't feeling with the deadlifts to start, but I got into the groove after the 2nd rep. Did the negatives with the lat pulldown to decompress my spine a bit.

    Front squat form sucks- I keep losing the bar. The last set was the best one. I may need to look up when I front squat, which isn't a neutral neck, but eh

    Quads were tired, so the split squats were pretty light.

    Haven't done heavy swings in a while, felt pretty good.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  7. #127
    Registered User likeafish's Avatar
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    Great workouts at those intense swings!

    Do you use a clean grip for front squats or the crossed?
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  8. #128
    Registered User coconuttree2009's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Partyrocking View Post
    Elbows bent? interesting I wonder if you're supposed to keep your grip double overhand. With a mixed grip, that sounds like potential for a bicep tear.

    Deadlifts 5x135; 3x185; 1x225; 5x1x250
    Slow Negatives with Lat Pulldown
    Front Squats 4x6x55lbs
    BSS 1x3x40lbs; 1x8x30lbs
    Hanging Ab Raises 3x7
    leg curl/leg extension superset 2x15x65lbs/2x12x34
    myofascial release with softball, quads and back
    kettlebell swings 2x10x88lbs
    hip thrusts with a resistance band 1x10

    Wasn't feeling with the deadlifts to start, but I got into the groove after the 2nd rep. Did the negatives with the lat pulldown to decompress my spine a bit.

    Front squat form sucks- I keep losing the bar. The last set was the best one. I may need to look up when I front squat, which isn't a neutral neck, but eh

    Quads were tired, so the split squats were pretty light.

    Haven't done heavy swings in a while, felt pretty good.
    Definitely overhand grip. Mixed grip would not work on squat stance. Slightly bent elbows only for set up and then obviously as you start pulling they would naturally straighten up.

    You could try cross arm hold or straps for front squat to prevent losing the bar. Looking up might be not optimal but looking forward instead of down would certainly help.
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  9. #129
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    I use a clean grip on the front squats. I tried cross and I had the same problem. I don't always keep my elbows up which means I lose the bar.

    I may do straps when I actually start my new routine. I keep trying to do the clean grip because I keep telling myself I'm going to learn how to power clean, but I haven't done it yet, so ...
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  10. #130
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Happy Saturday

    My ma and I finally got to the grocery store; we can stop eating takeout every day!

    Workout
    Deadlifts 5x135; 3x185; 1x225; 5x1x250
    Did some squat stance ones too, 5x135
    RDLs 5x135- grip was suffering at this point
    OHP 5x45; 3x55; 3x85; 3x65
    lat pulldown close grip 10x90lbs
    10 band pullaparts
    face pulls 10x22lbs
    tennis ball rolling

    Not sure how well my grip will hold up doing squat stance deads at a heavier weight. It will be interesting to see what happens.
    Plan on taking tomorrow off.
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  11. #131
    Registered User coconuttree2009's Avatar
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    I've read somewhere that few exercises with fat bar like bi curls or bent over rows really makes a difference in grip strength.
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  12. #132
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coconuttree2009 View Post
    I've read somewhere that few exercises with fat bar like bi curls or bent over rows really makes a difference in grip strength.
    Thanks for the suggestion. My gym actually has a fat bar, so I could do some work with it at the end of my sessions.

    Squats Day
    Squats 5x45; 3x95; 2x135; 1x185; 5x3x205
    Deadlift 5x135; 4x1x250
    Front Squats 4x45; 4x4x65; 3x95; 1x85
    Good Mornings 3x10x95

    185 felt heavy, and I could barely do 205. I planned on starting my program with 225 next week, but that may be a stretch. I haven't done heavy squats in like two weeks. Apparently, that's all the time it takes for my body to forget how to hold the bar. Will squat again on Thursday and reevaluate.

    Deadlifts felt wrong. I don't think I was rounding my back, but I wasn't comfortable doing the lift like I usually am. Only did 4 today. 24/25 for the first week's not bad. Hopefully, it will feel better tomorrow.

    Front Squats- can't get the bar in the right place. It always slides during the reps. Either I start too high or I can't keep upright enough. Will practice again on Wednesday I think.

    Good Mornings- haven't done outside of a complex in forever. Got a good hamstring stretch. I'll probably add these to my routine permanently once I'm done with the Daily Dose.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  13. #133
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    5 minute warmup on the elliptical
    Deadlifts 5x135; 5x1x250

    They're redoing the astroturf in the gym, so everyone was crowded into the front room. It's impressive that I could find a space to deadlift at all.

    Tomorrow, they'll be putting in the new turf. Hopefully, I can find a place to deadlift and get some bench work in.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  14. #134
    Registered User coconuttree2009's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Partyrocking View Post
    5 minute warmup on the elliptical
    Deadlifts 5x135; 5x1x250

    They're redoing the astroturf in the gym, so everyone was crowded into the front room. It's impressive that I could find a space to deadlift at all.

    Tomorrow, they'll be putting in the new turf. Hopefully, I can find a place to deadlift and get some bench work in.
    I like your style - turn up, warm up, deadlift and go home
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  15. #135
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    Originally Posted by coconuttree2009 View Post
    I like your style - turn up, warm up, deadlift and go home
    Me too, but today, I had to stay for an hour though- my mom had a PT session.

    Today's Workout
    Deadlifts 1x5x135; 1x3x185; 1x1x225; 5x1x270
    Chest/Back supersets Dumbbell Decline Press 10x25/Dumbbell Row 10x45lbs
    Dumbbell Floor Press 2x10x30lbs/Dumbbell Row 2x15x30lbs
    Tricep Pushdown/ Cable curl Superset 1x10x29lbs/red cable; 2x10x34lbs/ red cable, 15lbs curls
    Shoulder Press/Lat Pulldown superset 2x10x20lbs; 2x10x80lbs
    Loaded carries with various weights, waiter's walk, clean walk, farmers walks
    eccentric rdls 10x25lb

    I forgot my 1.25lb plates, so I had to do 270 instead of 268. It went up fine.

    Gym was still super crowded. I gave up my barbell after I got my deadlifts in, so this father and son could work out. They had been waiting for a while, and I didn't really care what my asst. work was today.

    Probably should have done the decline presses with more weight, but eh. The supersets worked surprisingly well given how crowded the gym was. I don't think anyone wanted to be that guy who was on a machine too long so everyone kept jumping around.

    I don't get how people lift with such terrible form. Usually, I hole myself in a corner so I can't see what others are up to, but today that was impossible. Don't think I saw anyone actually use their lats doing a lat pulldown. Instead, it was an awkward jerky row with 2 inch range of motion. Also, front raises- everyone does them with a hip thrust and a weight that's too heavy. Just press the damn thing- eh, what can you do?
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  16. #136
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    The problem is that most do not know they have bad form, otherwise why would they do it. Unfortunately, those who 'know how' hardly ever offer their opinion.
    I remember once I was corrected by an old guy at the gym when I was doing bi curls. He told me that I was jerking the weights too much, so I should keep my core tight and stack my feet to keep me in place. I really appreciated that advice.
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  17. #137
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coconuttree2009 View Post
    The problem is that most do not know they have bad form, otherwise why would they do it. Unfortunately, those who 'know how' hardly ever offer their opinion.
    I'm sure that's the case; I just don't want to approach guys twice my age, and tell them they don't know how to lift. They've probably been doing the same thing for x number of years and will get offended if they're told their wrong all this time, and it kind of depends on why they're there. If they're looking to get swole, sure their form will impact their progress, but if it's just their way of getting out of the house for an hour, then maybe they don't care how well they progress.

    I pretty much never say anything unless asked, but I wonder if I should say something when people do things that look hazardous. I saw this one guy who pretty much only did the lockout portion of the lift. He had 2 inch rom on every exercise and was going super fast with light weights. I don't get how he wasn't getting chronic joint pain from that.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  18. #138
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    Originally Posted by Partyrocking View Post
    I'm sure that's the case; I just don't want to approach guys twice my age, and tell them they don't know how to lift. They've probably been doing the same thing for x number of years and will get offended if they're told their wrong all this time, and it kind of depends on why they're there. If they're looking to get swole, sure their form will impact their progress, but if it's just their way of getting out of the house for an hour, then maybe they don't care how well they progress.

    I pretty much never say anything unless asked, but I wonder if I should say something when people do things that look hazardous. I saw this one guy who pretty much only did the lockout portion of the lift. He had 2 inch rom on every exercise and was going super fast with light weights. I don't get how he wasn't getting chronic joint pain from that.
    I guess the only way to give advice without offending is by way of saying: 'that's an interesting/different way of lifting, any reason for it?' and see how the person responds.
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    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coconuttree2009 View Post
    I guess the only way to give advice without offending is by way of saying: 'that's an interesting/different way of lifting, any reason for it?' and see how the person responds.
    That's not a bad approach. Though, I really just can't wait until I can go back to my lifting corner and see nothing else. Apparently, that's not until January 4th.

    Squats 1x5x45; 1x3x95; 1x2x135; 1x1x185; 3x3x225
    Deads 1x5x135; 5x1x250
    Front Squats 1x3x45; 1x3x85; 3x3x65
    Good Mornings 3x10x65

    225 felt hard and it really shouldn't have. I was busting out doubles easily two weeks ago. I'm wondering if I should launch my new program this Monday while my squat is still a mess, or practice squatting all next week and wait until the following week to start the program.

    I also may not do as well with the program with such limited space, so that's another reason to put it off another week.

    Speaking of my new program, I rewrote it into a UL, so that I could use the 5th day for conditioning work. The ULPPL had a few flaws, mainly no plan for periodization, so I figured if I had to fix that, then I may as well rewrite the whole thing.

    Right now, it looks like:

    Lower 1
    Squat 3x3-6 reps
    Good Morning 3x6-10 reps
    Walking Lunge/Farmers Walk 3xF
    Leg Curls 3x10-15 reps

    Upper 1
    Bench 3x3-6 reps
    Pendlay Row 3x5-8 reps
    OHP 3x3-6 reps
    Lat Pulldown 3x6-10 reps
    Curls/Skull Crushes 3x10-15 reps

    Lower 2
    Squats 3x6-10 reps
    Deadlifts 3x3-6 reps
    Bulgarian Split Squats 3x6-10 reps/Leg Curls 10x15 reps
    Hanging Ab Raises 3xF

    Upper 2
    CGBP with pause 3x6-10
    Close grip Cable Row 3x6-10
    Dumbbell Incline Press 3x6-10
    Lat pulldown 3x6-10
    Face Pulls/ Pallof Press superset 3x10-15

    I'm planning to use a Linear Volume Periodization. In other words, week 1 gets 3 sets, week 2 gets 4 sets, week 3 gets 5 sets and week 4 gets 4 sets plus 1 advanced technique, e.g. a drop set, AMRAP set, rest pause, and then week 5 is week 1 of the second cycle with a higher intensity.

    The $100,000 question is how to handle the intensity. My current idea is to have two concurrent progression schemes. 1) Base each lift off a training max that goes up each month, e.g. start with 80% 1RM for bench and then on Week 5 add 5lbs and do it again. 2) Each time I hit the max number of reps allowed, add weight. So if I get a 4x6 on week 2, then I add weight for week 3 in the middle of the cycle.

    One caveat, I'm not sure what to do about the training max if I hit the maximum number of reps. In other words, if I add weight in week 3 of the previous example, do I add weight again in week 5? My thought on this is to add weight to the new cycle because my previous cycle was based on a training max that happened to be a bit too low, but if I'm over eager, I may just stall out instead.

    Also, I'm running the program with the daily dose, so I'll be doing 3-5 singles each day and I won't be doing the deads in Lower 2 until Daily Dose is over. Unsure of how that will play out.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  20. #140
    Registered User BB26's Avatar
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    I've always been scared of doing good mornings because it looks like it will RIP my back, do you think it's unwarranted? And just as a side question, do you have body composition goals during your training, like bulk cut or recomp?
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  21. #141
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    If done correctly, you should feel good mornings in your hamstrings. I don't see why they'd be any more dangerous than rdl. I do them bent knee and lighter weight with more reps.

    Right now, I'm on a permacut because I'm fat. Unsure if I'll do a real bulk when I'm at my goal weight or coast at maintenance. I think in many cases bulking/cutting is a bit overrated. Sure if you're really skinny or really fat, then it makes sense, but for the average person, you can get more muscle and less fat just by using the mirror as your guide and not worrying too much about the scale.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  22. #142
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    Saturday's Workout
    Bench 5x45; 3x65; 1x95; 1x115; 3x135
    Deads 1x5x135; 5x1x250

    I got a new water bottle for Christmas and I ordered a gym bag. Getting ready to rumble this new year.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  23. #143
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    Subbed! Just been reading through your journal.

    In to drool over the impressive numbers you're lifting; really inspiring
    - Fallen Angel -

    Journal http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169571783

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    Meet PRs: 149/93/220

    Goals: 200/132/250
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    Sorry to crash your thread with a question but wasn't sure you'd see it if I posted it in my journal.

    Just been thinking more about what you said about the lower reps and higher weights, and progressing the weights once hitting 6 reps. It makes sense to me. The reason I'm doing 8-10 reps for the current program is because the program's creator (Mike Matthews) explains that in terms of hypertrophy women respond better to 8-10 rep range. I just wondered what your take on that was?

    I've found the Greyskull LP book on Amazon so might be placing an order soon
    - Fallen Angel -

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    Meet PRs: 149/93/220

    Goals: 200/132/250
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  25. #145
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    Partyrocking is offline
    Feel free to crash in any time.

    I think rep ranges for strength and hypertrophy are overrated. Your body doesn't care what rep range you used. It cares about how much work you did each session. E.g. a 5x5 at 80% of your 1RM will give you about the same amount of volume as a 3x10x65% of your 1RM-slightly more actually. Volume is what drives muscle growth (provided the frequency and intensity are sufficient).

    It makes no sense to think you'll grow muscle faster with a 3x10. If anything, the 5x5 will be better to start with because your 1RM will go up faster, and if you later drop down to a 3x10, you'll be able to move more weight than if you had done the 3x10 the entire time.

    Conversely, bigger muscles have the capacity to be stronger than smaller muscles. Instead of training 1-5 reps the entire time for strength, it makes more sense to use a variety of rep ranges, get your muscles as big as possible, and then use lower reps to peak before a competition. It's less grueling than doing 1-5 reps the entire time.

    I prefer to do lower reps (3-6) for main compounds: bench, squat, deads, medium reps (6-10) for assistance compounds: lat pulldowns, lunges, good mornings, and higher reps (10-15) for isolation moves and for "safety lifts" facepulls, curls, leg curls, etc. For me, this makes the most sense for keeping my form intact. I find heavy isolation moves to have too much swinging and jerking, but lighter squats for more reps leads to a form breakdown and grinding out too many reps.

    I think what's best, however, is largely individual and requires experimenting. I wouldn't trap yourself in a rep range because it's best for women because not all women respond the same to training. Rippetoe actually recommends the opposite, that women hit the weights heavier and more frequently instead of doing higher rep sets. Some people don't even keep track of reps per set at all. They just have a rep count for the day, e.g. 30 reps and do it in as many sets as required.

    No matter what rep range you train in, if volume's going up over time, and intensity's going up over time, you're probably in good shape.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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    Thanks for all this useful information Partyrocking

    Good idea re. the experimenting. I think because I am fairly new to lifting, especially the compound moves, it can be a bit frightening to do stuff outside of a program for fear of my results stalling. I had actually been thinking myself of trying lower reps/higher weights for the compound moves and higher reps/lower weights for isolation exercises. Perhaps I should just go for it and see what happens.

    I guess, if I find my results stalling then I just do more searching on these forums to find out how I can rectify any problems.

    I think my fear of being flexible comes from my inexperience, so hopefully over time that will change
    - Fallen Angel -

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    Goals: 200/132/250
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    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Candito Linear Program is a good one for getting a mix of rep ranges. I saw on your journal that you were thinking about getting Greyskull LP. That's a good starting point. The AMRAP sets will be a good way to get in extra volume. As a beginner, you really can't go that wrong. Pretty much anything will work up to a point. It's when you get to the intermediate/advanced stage that you need be more precise. I would suggest starting with Greyskull and see how you like it. It's meant to be adaptable so you can run it for 1-2 years if you want. From there, CLP could be a good early intermediate option.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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    Thanks

    Yes I think I'm going to the Greyskull ebook and get reading before starting it. Watch this space. I'll make a note of the CLP as an option for later on
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    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    Took me 3 tries to get to the gym lol- yeah, that's what happens when your car breaks down!

    Foam rolling/squat holds
    Front Squats 5x45; 5x95
    Squats 5x135; 3x185; 1x5x230; 2x4x230
    Bench 5x45; 3x95; 3x4x115
    Deads 5x1x250
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  30. #150
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    Just stumbled in your thread. Read the whole thing.
    It's always motivating to see someone so invested in their goals. Best of luck...
    English is not my first language, if you see something out of place feel free to correct me. Ty

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