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  1. #3001
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    My Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 is very sharp so it will be hard for me to justify a 35mm prime unless there's a cheap one like the ~$130 50mm.

    It's getting really tough with mirror-less cameras being as good as they are. Hopefully Canon and Nikon don't try to chase that market at the expense of their DSLR's.
    Maybe at the expense of Crop Sensors but not Full Frame, thats their bread and butter.
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  2. #3002
    Registered User Sandmang27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Maybe at the expense of Crop Sensors but not Full Frame, thats their bread and butter.
    Hopefully not. I enjoy photography but don't want to be pushed into completely switching my platform or not being able to upgrade anything.

    I also realized over the weekend I've been messing up for months. I shoot RAW because I was under the assumption that I'm able to edit my RAW files on Lightroom Mobile. But not only does the free mobile version of Lightroom not accept RAW files, I'm pretty sure the 80D only transfers a JPEG version of the picture to my phone via NFC.

    I always wondered why my pictures looked like crap on bigger screens.
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  3. #3003
    Axebrah BlueSasquatch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    Hopefully not. I enjoy photography but don't want to be pushed into completely switching my platform or not being able to upgrade anything.

    I also realized over the weekend I've been messing up for months. I shoot RAW because I was under the assumption that I'm able to edit my RAW files on Lightroom Mobile. But not only does the free mobile version of Lightroom not accept RAW files, I'm pretty sure the 80D only transfers a JPEG version of the picture to my phone via NFC.

    I always wondered why my pictures looked like crap on bigger screens.
    Yes, I would suggest RAW with desktop Lightroom, unless you are good enough with your settings to capture what you want and are unlikely to modify much in post processing. I know a couple photographers who do, but most always go RAW. You should be able to get a cracked version of Lightroom pretty easy. I think I paid $60 for mine back before they went subscription based.

    Also think I've solved my camera dilemma, since I like the reach that crop-sensors give, and the overall smaller size and lower cost, I think I will just stay in the middle and upgrade from D7100 to D500, which from what I've read, is "the best crop sensor yet" and uses the same focus system as the full frame line up. Also with it having built in wifi and bluetooth, it will make product photography or social media photography much easier. Bit pricey however, about $1,200 used it seems. Also allows me to keep using the excellent 10-24mm.

    While I've been wanting the 150-600mm G2 Tamron and maybe a Tele, enough reviews suggest going with the Nikon 200-500mm instead, which when cropped to the same level as the Tamron, yields a better result. I've heard mixed things on how well it accepts a tele, but may try a 1.4x. .. Will most likely buy the body this fall, rent the lens and a tele over Christmas for the Badlands, and then decide after that which super tele to go after.
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  4. #3004
    Registered User Sandmang27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Yes, I would suggest RAW with desktop Lightroom, unless you are good enough with your settings to capture what you want and are unlikely to modify much in post processing. I know a couple photographers who do, but most always go RAW. You should be able to get a cracked version of Lightroom pretty easy. I think I paid $60 for mine back before they went subscription based.

    Also think I've solved my camera dilemma, since I like the reach that crop-sensors give, and the overall smaller size and lower cost, I think I will just stay in the middle and upgrade from D7100 to D500, which from what I've read, is "the best crop sensor yet" and uses the same focus system as the full frame line up. Also with it having built in wifi and bluetooth, it will make product photography or social media photography much easier. Bit pricey however, about $1,200 used it seems. Also allows me to keep using the excellent 10-24mm.

    While I've been wanting the 150-600mm G2 Tamron and maybe a Tele, enough reviews suggest going with the Nikon 200-500mm instead, which when cropped to the same level as the Tamron, yields a better result. I've heard mixed things on how well it accepts a tele, but may try a 1.4x. .. Will most likely buy the body this fall, rent the lens and a tele over Christmas for the Badlands, and then decide after that which super tele to go after.
    I like shooting wildlife so it's very hard to get my setting correct every time. I usually do some editing but after seeing the difference of editing RAW files in Lightroom on my laptop I will do a lot more editing. I signed up for the free trial and will do at least 1 month of it especially after my trip this week to Jasper/Banff.

    The D500 looks like a good camera and since it's Nikon's version of the 7D Mark ii I think it would be excellent.

    I've seen several videos that say that the native zoom lenses from Canon and Nikon are sharper when you zoom in then the 3rd party ones. I've also heard that the pictures come out better when you crop over adding a tele converter especially since the crop sensor already "crops" the image to begin with. So you'll probably be better off with the Nikon 200-500mm and just crop the pictures after.
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  5. #3005
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    I've seen several videos that say that the native zoom lenses from Canon and Nikon are sharper when you zoom in then the 3rd party ones.
    Just be careful and don't indefinitely chase the sharpness dragon. Unless you are in the business of printing large format, most won't be able to tell the difference between lenses when posting to places such as the web.

    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    I've also heard that the pictures come out better when you crop over adding a tele converter especially since the crop sensor already "crops" the image to begin with. So you'll probably be better off with the Nikon 200-500mm and just crop the pictures after.
    Agreed, and full frame cameras often have "crop sensor mode" so you can enable it for extra reach when needed (e.g. wildlife). You essentially are doing the crop in camera...
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  6. #3006
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Also think I've solved my camera dilemma, since I like the reach that crop-sensors give, and the overall smaller size and lower cost, I think I will just stay in the middle and upgrade from D7100 to D500, which from what I've read, is "the best crop sensor yet" and uses the same focus system as the full frame line up. Also with it having built in wifi and bluetooth, it will make product photography or social media photography much easier. Bit pricey however, about $1,200 used it seems. Also allows me to keep using the excellent 10-24mm.
    Sasquatch I don't want to be that guy but it's a myth that crop sensors give you more "reach." The only thing the crop sensor format does is, you guessed it, crop away more of the image circle so you're actually giving up FOV.

    It can appear you're getting "more reach" due to pixel density when a crop sensor is more densely packed than a full frame sensor so there's more detail when you pixel peep/enlarge it. However compared to the top end of full frame there's no longer a pixel density advantage with crop. Nikon cameras give you a crop mode where it's easy to see this. For example my now ancient D800E in 1.5x/DX crop mode spits out 15.4mp files and compared to the old 16mp D7000 it's pretty much line ball.

    Today's crop sensors max out around 24mp so compared to the new 61mp Sony a7R IV which can do 26mp crop there's no pixel density "reach" advantage there.

    So the key reasons to go with crop would be cost, speed (fps), and being able to use your DX lenses but even the fps gap is closing with FF if you can afford it. Focus points also cover the whole frame compared to full frame plus you're cropping out the corners where most lenses look a little soft.

    I've been saying this for a long time but with crop if you like the bokeh of fast lenses wide open but you lose FOV with crop then with a static subject shoot a bokeh pano. It doesn't need to be anything extreme either. A 3-5 shot vertical pano with 35-50% overlap can do the trick with a subject that isn't moving like a portrait. You'll get the same look of full frame. You're just filling in the cropped areas with extra frames. Microsoft ICE is free and does a better job than software I paid hundreds for. Just my 2 cents.
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  7. #3007
    Axebrah BlueSasquatch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Sasquatch I don't want to be that guy but it's a myth that crop sensors give you more "reach." The only thing the crop sensor format does is, you guessed it, crop away more of the image circle so you're actually giving up FOV.

    It can appear you're getting "more reach" due to pixel density when a crop sensor is more densely packed than a full frame sensor so there's more detail when you pixel peep/enlarge it. However compared to the top end of full frame there's no longer a pixel density advantage with crop. Nikon cameras give you a crop mode where it's easy to see this. For example my now ancient D800E in 1.5x/DX crop mode spits out 15.4mp files and compared to the old 16mp D7000 it's pretty much line ball.

    Today's crop sensors max out around 24mp so compared to the new 61mp Sony a7R IV which can do 26mp crop there's no pixel density "reach" advantage there.

    So the key reasons to go with crop would be cost, speed (fps), and being able to use your DX lenses but even the fps gap is closing with FF if you can afford it. Focus points also cover the whole frame compared to full frame plus you're cropping out the corners where most lenses look a little soft.

    I've been saying this for a long time but with crop if you like the bokeh of fast lenses wide open but you lose FOV with crop then with a static subject shoot a bokeh pano. It doesn't need to be anything extreme either. A 3-5 shot vertical pano with 35-50% overlap can do the trick with a subject that isn't moving like a portrait. You'll get the same look of full frame. You're just filling in the cropped areas with extra frames. Microsoft ICE is free and does a better job than software I paid hundreds for. Just my 2 cents.
    Right, thanks for the clarification Dom, I know crop sensors are smaller and give the illusion of reach, a 300mm lens is 300mm on all cameras, the perceived range varies, because of sensor crop. But it's easier to say more reach than a disclaimer sentence, I need to figure out a better. shorter way of saying the same thing I suppose. The D500 is around $1,000 used, so it's pretty expensive for a DX body, could maybe make the jump to FX. I think I could equally find some things enjoyable about a change to M4/3s, it's the wildlife that I enjoy shooting the most, which is what keeps me from M4/3s. I think the D500 would be a good upgrade to the D7100. With eyes on the 200-500mm for the next lens. I could swing for the D750 instead I suppose, but not sure if it would be better just for the sake of full frame.

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  8. #3008
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    With eyes on the 200-500mm for the next lens.
    I tested the Sigma ART 150-600 Sport lens and wound up buying the NIKKOR 200-500mm. The latter is significantly lighter and just as "sharp" in real world conditions (e.g. you aren't pixel peeping in a lab). As someone who hikes pretty decent distances with a backpack full of gear, the weight itself was a huge selling point.

    The only potential "issue" is that the Sigma is a bit more professionally built but this is likely only going to be a concern for those who shoot in very inclement weather conditions.
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  9. #3009
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Right, thanks for the clarification Dom, I know crop sensors are smaller and give the illusion of reach, a 300mm lens is 300mm on all cameras, the perceived range varies, because of sensor crop. But it's easier to say more reach than a disclaimer sentence, I need to figure out a better. shorter way of saying the same thing I suppose. The D500 is around $1,000 used, so it's pretty expensive for a DX body, could maybe make the jump to FX. I think I could equally find some things enjoyable about a change to M4/3s, it's the wildlife that I enjoy shooting the most, which is what keeps me from M4/3s. I think the D500 would be a good upgrade to the D7100. With eyes on the 200-500mm for the next lens. I could swing for the D750 instead I suppose, but not sure if it would be better just for the sake of full frame.
    I think the D500 would be a great choice and should perfectly suit your photography. It's proven technology. Personally I'd prefer that to entry level full frame for that AF system alone.

    It's actually what I thought the D700 replacement was going to be back in 2012 only FX but Nikon instead did a 180 and went with a slow high MP camera which was the D800/D800E. When Nikon released the D850 it got all the attention as the FX equivalent but for most people 45mp and $3K is major overkill, money that could go towards some nice glass, lighting gear, or a solid tripod. Many times I've wished I had a D500 because for a lot of situations it would be close to the perfect camera.
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  10. #3010
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    Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    I tested the Sigma ART 150-600 Sport lens and wound up buying the NIKKOR 200-500mm. The latter is significantly lighter and just as "sharp" in real world conditions (e.g. you aren't pixel peeping in a lab). As someone who hikes pretty decent distances with a backpack full of gear, the weight itself was a huge selling point.

    The only potential "issue" is that the Sigma is a bit more professionally built but this is likely only going to be a concern for those who shoot in very inclement weather conditions.
    I read a handful of articles/youtube videos where the Sigma/Tamron 600mm were compared, the sport vs contempary and G1 vs G2, all came out pretty even with one another, for a 600mm under 2k. I enjoyed the G1 Tamron last year, should be renting the 200-500 for similar conditions this year and have nice comparisons. Have you tried throwing a tele on it?

    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    I think the D500 would be a great choice and should perfectly suit your photography. It's proven technology. Personally I'd prefer that to entry level full frame for that AF system alone.

    It's actually what I thought the D700 replacement was going to be back in 2012 only FX but Nikon instead did a 180 and went with a slow high MP camera which was the D800/D800E. When Nikon released the D850 it got all the attention as the FX equivalent but for most people 45mp and $3K is major overkill, money that could go towards some nice glass, lighting gear, or a solid tripod. Many times I've wished I had a D500 because for a lot of situations it would be close to the perfect camera.

    Great info, thanks!
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Microsoft ICE is free and does a better job than software I paid hundreds for. Just my 2 cents.
    So annoyed that that it has stopped being developed (eg. no 16bit version). It was by far the best stitcher (unless you need serious control like ptgui).
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    Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Just be careful and don't indefinitely chase the sharpness dragon. Unless you are in the business of printing large format, most won't be able to tell the difference between lenses when posting to places such as the web.
    I'll try not to. I just do photography as a hobby so definitely don't need large prints but it's nice to have the option to do it. I just was amazed at how dumb I was thinking I was editing RAW files and there's a huge difference is the quality of the couple of pictures I edited on my laptop. At least I have the RAW files so I'm able to do this.
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    I'll try not to. I just do photography as a hobby so definitely don't need large prints but it's nice to have the option to do it. I just was amazed at how dumb I was thinking I was editing RAW files and there's a huge difference is the quality of the couple of pictures I edited on my laptop. At least I have the RAW files so I'm able to do this.
    No, it isn't dumb, it is just learning from experience. When I first started shooting I thought shooting everything in JPG format was fine. And, to be honest, for some it is - just depends on what your ultimate goal with your photos is. With that said, with the price of in-camera storage these days, there is really no reason to shoot at least JPG+RAW. At least you can always go back and edit the RAW this way.

    I really like the extra information contained in RAW files as I'm often shooting scenes with quite a dramatic dynamic range of light. So I shoot only in RAW and have the camera write to two cards (for redundancy).

    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    I read a handful of articles/youtube videos where the Sigma/Tamron 600mm were compared, the sport vs contempary and G1 vs G2, all came out pretty even with one another, for a 600mm under 2k. I enjoyed the G1 Tamron last year, should be renting the 200-500 for similar conditions this year and have nice comparisons. Have you tried throwing a tele on it?
    No, none of my field tests were done with a teleconverter. As you said, always a great idea to rent glass before purchasing it...
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  15. #3015
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    Originally Posted by zknarc View Post
    So annoyed that that it has stopped being developed (eg. no 16bit version). It was by far the best stitcher (unless you need serious control like ptgui).
    Damn. I was hoping they'd keep developing it but you're right they dropped anchor in 2015. I have PTGui Pro along and it struggled with a few panos ICE handled with ease requiring a lot more input in the control points editor. And that was using a pano head with everything perfectly aligned on each axis, NPP, etc.

    There are a lot of people out there just eyeballing them and shooting handheld panos so it'd be even worse. ICE worked so well for me I never even bothered upgrading PTGui.

    Always a bummer when software gets dropped like that. Had the same feeling with Nik plugins which I used a lot. Google bought Nik because they wanted the Snapseed app, then they practically gave them all away, and then they stopped development. Today I learned DXO acquired those Nik tools in 2017.
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    Originally Posted by zknarc View Post
    Not sure on this photograph, can't make out that small thing on the ground, maybe the 2/3s rule with a bit more of the ground in the shot?

    This is a picture I took last year, loved the light, and the bison below ontop of that hill, problem was I couldn't move very much, ideally I would have gotten a close up with the bison and the sky in the frame, but instead I got the 2nd image. Neither of the shots are amazing, but I feel like there was potential there. How would you guys have done the composition?




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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Not sure on this photograph, can't make out that small thing on the ground, maybe the 2/3s rule with a bit more of the ground in the shot?
    It's two people. The massive compression on image hosting sites mangles it, 900px size doesn't help either.
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    Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    No, it isn't dumb, it is just learning from experience. When I first started shooting I thought shooting everything in JPG format was fine. And, to be honest, for some it is - just depends on what your ultimate goal with your photos is. With that said, with the price of in-camera storage these days, there is really no reason to shoot at least JPG+RAW. At least you can always go back and edit the RAW this way.

    I really like the extra information contained in RAW files as I'm often shooting scenes with quite a dramatic dynamic range of light. So I shoot only in RAW and have the camera write to two cards (for redundancy).
    That's very true. Photography is a constant learning experience and a lot of it is done by trial and error.

    My next camera body will definitely have 2 card slots. I was very close to getting the 7D mark ii with that being a big reason because I've lost photos before as I'm sure we all have. The 90D should be getting announced soon and it is rumored to have dual SD slots so I'll keep an eye out for that.
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    Not the best weather but I got a few good shots.









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    First shot doesn't do much for me, but I like the other ones, nice work.

    Anyone have any idea what to expect for Black Friday? I am in the market for a D500, I can find them used on Ebay for $1,000-1,200. They are $1,500 new from Amazon or Nikon.

    Torn between buying one now, and waiting for Black Friday deals, I have a trip in December, so It could wait until then.
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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    First shot doesn't do much for me, but I like the other ones, nice work.

    Anyone have any idea what to expect for Black Friday? I am in the market for a D500, I can find them used on Ebay for $1,000-1,200. They are $1,500 new from Amazon or Nikon.

    Torn between buying one now, and waiting for Black Friday deals, I have a trip in December, so It could wait until then.
    Thank you, I really liked the 10-18mm it made a huge difference.

    I really like the way the 90D is looking. I think it's a pretty decent upgrade from my 80D and I'll be picking one up. Not sure if the 7D mark ii is even an option anymore.

    I would just wait if you don't need it before black Friday. You will most likely save a lot of money and if they aren't on sale then just buy it then. You'll only miss out on not using it for a few weeks.
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    Thank you, I really liked the 10-18mm it made a huge difference.
    Just my 2 cents, if you like a wider composition don't be afraid to shoot a pano. UWA exaggerates the size of objects in the immediate foreground and mountains in the distance look tiny. It can be a great creative effect but generally I prefer shooting a pano without all the distortion. Somewhere around 24-35mm on FF in vertical is the sweet spot where you're not shooting a lot of frames. With Sony sensors I don't even bother with bracketing anymore, every now and then I might use a 2 stop soft grad, so that cuts down on processing.

    That first shot you posted for example for me highlights when you don't have a strong subject or composition you might as well cram more in and at least it comes closer to the experience of being there.

    This time around I didn't even bother with a pano head. I have a panning clamp attached full time on my ball head so I can just level the head and pan. No fancy composition required in a situation like that. Just be there at the right time, nail the focus, exposure, etc. and get enough of it in. Crop later.



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    Originally Posted by BlueSasquatch View Post
    Right, thanks for the clarification Dom, I know crop sensors are smaller and give the illusion of reach, a 300mm lens is 300mm on all cameras, the perceived range varies, because of sensor crop. But it's easier to say more reach than a disclaimer sentence, I need to figure out a better. shorter way of saying the same thing I suppose. The D500 is around $1,000 used, so it's pretty expensive for a DX body, could maybe make the jump to FX. I think I could equally find some things enjoyable about a change to M4/3s, it's the wildlife that I enjoy shooting the most, which is what keeps me from M4/3s. I think the D500 would be a good upgrade to the D7100. With eyes on the 200-500mm for the next lens. I could swing for the D750 instead I suppose, but not sure if it would be better just for the sake of full frame.

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    I had the D750 until my truck was broken into and somebody helped themselves to my camera bag. That sucked. Anyway, I replaced it with the D500. I shoot mostly indoor sports, so the low light performance and fps are what drove me to the D500. Both camera's are better than this dummy clicking away.
    I do notice the FOV difference however using my 70-200 depending on where I'm standing. I would think that shooting wildlife though being too close is usually not the problem.
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Just my 2 cents, if you like a wider composition don't be afraid to shoot a pano. UWA exaggerates the size of objects in the immediate foreground and mountains in the distance look tiny. It can be a great creative effect but generally I prefer shooting a pano without all the distortion. Somewhere around 24-35mm on FF in vertical is the sweet spot where you're not shooting a lot of frames. With Sony sensors I don't even bother with bracketing anymore, every now and then I might use a 2 stop soft grad, so that cuts down on processing.

    That first shot you posted for example for me highlights when you don't have a strong subject or composition you might as well cram more in and at least it comes closer to the experience of being there.

    This time around I didn't even bother with a pano head. I have a panning clamp attached full time on my ball head so I can just level the head and pan. No fancy composition required in a situation like that. Just be there at the right time, nail the focus, exposure, etc. and get enough of it in. Crop later.
    I always appreciate advice so thank you.

    That's a very good idea and didn't think of that. I did shoot some vertical shots and didn't even think about doing a panoramic to replace a wide angle lens. I didn't bring my tripod so everything was shot by hand but I'm sure I could have figured something out.
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    Originally Posted by Sandmang27 View Post
    I always appreciate advice so thank you.

    That's a very good idea and didn't think of that. I did shoot some vertical shots and didn't even think about doing a panoramic to replace a wide angle lens. I didn't bring my tripod so everything was shot by hand but I'm sure I could have figured something out.
    Handheld works fine if you've got enough light. Just switch on grid lines in the viewfinder and make sure you've got around 30-50% overlap. Vertical/portrait is usually the best choice to use the full width of the sensor and maximize vertical FOV in one pass but if you've got something moving across the frame like waves then landscape can be a better choice.

    I shot a landscape handheld once with two different compositions in landscape orientation with no thought of a panorama at the time and couldn't decide on which one I liked more. Years later on a whim I wondered what would happen if I tried stitching them in software and to my surprise it worked perfectly. There was about 25% overlap between the frames and that was enough.

    Anyway it just gives you more options. Some of the best panos will come from using a long lens where the mountains in the distance or whatever look great with say 200-300mm but you can't get enough in at that focal length. Shooting a pano solves the problem. It's also the solution to producing large detailed prints without having access to medium format.
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    What do you guys use to back up your files? I use a portable external HD but that's it. Kind of paranoid it will break or I'll lose it.

    I could pay an extra $5/month for 1TB storage with LR but then I can't back up my videos, and of course I have to pay for it monthly. Any recommendations?
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    Originally Posted by theACEofSPADES View Post
    What do you guys use to back up your files? I use a portable external HD but that's it. Kind of paranoid it will break or I'll lose it.

    I could pay an extra $5/month for 1TB storage with LR but then I can't back up my videos, and of course I have to pay for it monthly. Any recommendations?
    I would recommend a tertiary backup system, with a minimum of one located off-site (e.g. not at your house).

    A common setup could be external hard drive (primary), network SAN (backup), Amazon Photos (tertiary). I like Amazon because they do not manipulate your RAW data and you get unlimited storage as part of a Prime membership. You may have to look elsewhere for video storage.

    At a minimum, have copies at your house and in the cloud.
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    Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    I would recommend a tertiary backup system, with a minimum of one located off-site (e.g. not at your house).

    A common setup could be external hard drive (primary), network SAN (backup), Amazon Photos (tertiary). I like Amazon because they do not manipulate your RAW data and you get unlimited storage as part of a Prime membership. You may have to look elsewhere for video storage.

    At a minimum, have copies at your house and in the cloud.
    I never knew Amazon had online storage, I will defiantly look into that.
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    anyone shoot portraits...if so, how do you go about finding spots/locations to shoot at?
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